Copypasted from what I was about to post in the off-course thread:
Girl with dick does not necessarily mean trans.
There are a lot of futa works that could be retroactively trans if the author were educated on transgender issues.
As it stands, though, "girl who randomly has a dick and maybe a vagina and expressed both sex characteristics without outside interference/with random dumb magic thing" doesn't necessarily mean trans.
In my (dumb, seriously people I'm dumb, I haven't had a coherent thought in years, cis girl) opinion, you're cheapening the concept of being transgender by equating it with futanari.

and honestly i'd like to be rid of it. but that's not half as easy as i'd like.

If it's alright for me to ask - you don't have to answer - is it that you need financial help or a different cultural makeup surrounding you? Or something else? Curious + I wanna know if there's a way to help you out, so you're not so down you gotta curse at people when it's not necessary (me yesterday at my little sister tbh).

/And I'm sorry to hear about that Avery, but do keep in mind that this thread has been 99% supportive, with only one or two users posting negative things about it, which have been promptly shot down by other users. You're more than welcome here, and highly critical attitudes to you and others won't be tolerated, most likely resulting in a ban if not stopped.

I think it's constant microaggressions that've got her down. I'm pretty sure I made a few in this post and, having done so, I'd like advice on how to re-word it

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 6:12PM

Just removed a post that was, quite frankly, uncalled for. As dpf rightly put it, these attitudes aren't cool and shouldn't be continued. Stick to the facts of the case please, and not the personalities or situations of the posters.

Dear Avery,

As a queer trans woman myself, I support everything you wrote. A lot of it reflects my thoughts as well and it... I don't know, kind of resonates with me. I can feel a bit of your pain in what you said. I've once or twice tried to point out transphobia in Dynasty, just to have almost everyone tell me that I don't understand or that I'm a nuisance for staining a good love story, so I get that feeling. LGBT communities everywhere are far too often a breeding ground for transphobia and biphobia, and most cis people don't care about us at all (heck, I was silenced inside a LGBT community on college even when the topic WAS transgender people).

Having seen worse in terms of online communities, I do say I'm quite happy for the people who have been coming to our support in the forum lately. It probably wouldn't have happened a few years ago, so I guess things are changing. Far too slowly, that's true, but changing. Although I live in Brazil and the situation around here just seems to get worse by the minute (Fora Temer!), it wasn't so long ago (1960s) that the military government patrolled the streets day and night arresting and murdering trans women. A few decades later, we've got minimal health care and I'm even allowed to register my real name at some banks and at college, so things do change.

I can't imagine what it's like being raised by a terf mother. I know what they can be like for people like us. After I came out my family was... well, less than supportive, but they came around with time and it was a big help for me to be able to count on them. I do wish I could give you support as well. I don't know where you're from, or what you're going through, but if I can be of any help, you can count on me (add me fb.com/solentreasnuvens).

As for dates, have you tried going out with other trans people? After I came out, I've dated seven people, five of which were transgender. It is very satisfying to find other people who share similar experiences to your own, and who will no doubt recognize you by your gender identity regardless of your body (precisely because you're doing the same to them). We tend to get rejected a lot by cis women, but trans women have given me nothing but love (although I did fall for a couple of straight trans women and suffered from it lol).

All in all, I hope things turn out well for you (and for your love life). I wish you all the best.
Cecília.

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 6:55PM

For the sake of the discussion, I'll keep it in English, but I am from Brazil too and cannot even begin to imagine how hard it is to be in your shoes. Mainly because of the seemingly infinite problems appearing in our politics and politicians. To start with, because of all those problems, it doesn't really matter what you call yourself, you're probably going through hardships, adding that on top, and that we need to take care of other problems first, or else our country will simply be hell for everyone and that won't solve your problem either, or rather, it would probably turn it into an even worse problem. I have to say, though, that most of those people, especially here, that say they defend LGBT are just trying to get political support to do whatever corruption business they have in mind, so I'd at least suggest you be really careful with everyone.

The current political scenario isn't very promising for lgbt+ people. Legislative politicians are mostly conservative, even sex education at schools is being banned (let alone lgbt topics). Frankly, I don't have much hope for politics around here anymore.

But I really think we should get on topic now, or nez might get angry at us ^-^

idk, it's close enough to topic I don't mind.

Sorry for taking things off-topic! I didn't mean to bum people out or get apologies - I was just, sorta, tossing my thoughts out. I'm way more concerned, personally, with offending people than necessarily being offended myself, so don't feel like I am calling anyone out.

I appreciate the responses, but I'll refrain from addressing them all to keep things steered right. Again, apologies - didn't mean to hijack the thread at all.

And I'm 100% sure that drpepperfan is not transphobic, or something. He just went with the common conception that "if there's a dick, then it can't be yuri".

Long story short, that Vivian person started a flamewar for no good reason, and could just have pointed the error, instead of hurling insults at another poster. That she's a transwoman adds nothing to the discussion.

It might be a common belief, but that doesn't mean its not a transphobic belief. It just illustrates that transphobia is common. And yeah, calling someone a cunt is always a really shitty thing to do, and she's admitted it was a bad response, but I'm ultimately more invested in challenging people who perpetuate transphobia than badgering traumatized victims of transphobia into being more respectable.

+1 to the bolded, well said

If it's alright for me to ask - you don't have to answer - is it that you need financial help or a different cultural makeup surrounding you? Or something else? Curious + I wanna know if there's a way to help you out, so you're not so down you gotta curse at people when it's not necessary (me yesterday at my little sister tbh).

last i checked it'd be about 30k to get SRS in my country since most insurance refuses to cover it

it's literally cheaper to get a passport, schedule srs in thailand, and fly there and back for it than it is to get it in my country

30k is a lotta cash

If it's alright for me to ask - you don't have to answer - is it that you need financial help or a different cultural makeup surrounding you? Or something else? Curious + I wanna know if there's a way to help you out, so you're not so down you gotta curse at people when it's not necessary (me yesterday at my little sister tbh).

last i checked it'd be about 30k to get SRS in my country since most insurance refuses to cover it

it's literally cheaper to get a passport, schedule srs in thailand, and fly there and back for it than it is to get it in my country

30k is a lotta cash

You must live in the US like I do.

Avery

While Dynasty Forum does indeed have moments of transphobia, such users are almost always shot down rather quickly, by both Staff, and other users. Besides, how transphobic can the Forum be, when the most active moderating staff member is trans herself. Most flame wars that do erupt mainly revolve around futanari. Namely, can some cases of Futa be also considered Transgender, and are Futa works also Yuri. Site has its policy on those questions, but there is a population of users who do not agree with said policy, so we get an occasional skirmish over particular works. But transphobia as such, and telling trans people to leave, or something, no, that does not happen here. And on the off-chance it does, users involved get penalised rather quickly.

I was avoiding dynasty for awhile all-together because I thought this was a manga site for queer cis women and it was best for me to not invade their space. After some of the latest forum happens, I feel like I was pretty spot on in the end.

While Dynasty Forum does indeed have moments of transphobia, such users are almost always shot down rather quickly, by both Staff, and other users. Besides, how transphobic can the Forum be, when the most active moderating staff member is trans herself. Most flame wars that do erupt mainly revolve around futanari. Namely, can some cases of Futa be also considered Transgender, and are Futa works also Yuri. Site has its policy on those questions, but there is a population of users who do not agree with said policy, so we get an occasional skirmish over particular works. But transphobia as such, and telling trans people to leave, or something, no, that does not happen here. And on the off-chance it does, users involved get penalised rather quickly.

Nez and many others are great at standing up to hateful shit on dynasty. But I mean, its not like the politics of yuri as a genre and community just disappear when you stand up to the few assholes silly enough to articulate the general expectation of everything being centered on the cis experience. A relative minority of yuri even has characters written by the author to be explicitly lesbian, but we still identify with and bring lesbian perspectives into our enjoyment of the genre. In comparison, disrupt cis-readings of bodies and bring trans perspectives (or god forbid, politics) into yuri, especially one not written to be explicitly trans, and people will come down on you like a ton of bricks. The popular dissatisfaction with appearances of penises, bisexuality, any "male" bodies at all, and privileging of fluffy, pure cis-GL all relates to why many perceive dynasty as a primarily cis-lesbian space - even if its users do not usually articulate that norm and expectation.

last edited at Apr 21, 2017 8:43PM

@frigidbones
Your perspective on the demographics of Dynasty are odd to me. Informal surveys show roughly equal representation of men and women in the community, and ironically, from my observations over the years, cis men are more interested in cute, fluffy stuff while cis women are more interested in porn and realistic(ish) drama (I haven't seen enough explicit discussion of the topic to have developed a generalization for trans interests). Given that I don't much venture beyond Dynasty for my manga reading, I'm earnestly curious about whether the "many" you've mentioned is an observed shared impression of Dynasty or an extension of your own opinion.

nformal surveys show roughly equal representation of men and women in the community, and ironically, from my observations over the years, cis men are more interested in cute, fluffy stuff while cis women are more interested in porn and realistic(ish) drama (I haven't seen enough explicit discussion of the topic to have developed a generalization for trans interests).

Those are some interesting surveys. Thanks for sharing, and you're right, I was wrong to generalize a universal hegemony of fluffy sweetness. I think that mostly came from seeing a noisy minority of people celebrate loudly every time they read something by particular artists on the site that lacks angste, drama, and bi tags - but you're right that there are many who prefer sexy drama. I regret the careless insults directed at fluff as a genre, and hope we one day see more fluff trans manga on the site.

I'm earnestly curious about whether the "many" you've mentioned is an observed shared impression of Dynasty or an extension of your own opinion.

Fluff aspersions aside, I stand by the rest of the argument, and I claim the "many" as mostly just anyone who's argued on this thread and the other recent thread that dynasty and most other hosts are primarily cis-queer spaces - so I dunno, maybe the 'many' is 3 other people at least, and the rest of the 'many' is an extension of my optimistic imagination

last edited at Apr 23, 2017 3:17PM

i dunno even self proclaimed allies and such a lot of em took pretty transphobic stances so even if its not meant to be a cis queer space i think there are definitely queers, most of them cis, who actively push non-cis queers out or at least try to

I like where this is going.

Those are some interesting surveys. Thanks for sharing,

Yeah, they were conducted throughout the years so I've nothing to prove them other than my word :/

Fluff aspersions aside, I stand by the rest of the argument, and I claim the "many" as mostly just anyone who's argued on this thread and the other recent thread that dynasty and most other hosts are primarily cis-queer spaces - so I dunno, maybe the 'many' is 3 other people at least, and the rest of the 'many' is an extension of my optimistic imagination

I think the main point I'm getting at is that from my experience, the "primarily cis-queer spaces" might better be defined as "primarily cis-straight men with cis-lesbian blurring spaces". Even deeper than that, though, I would suggest not trying to label places like Dynasty as one group's or the other's. It's quite counterproductive to argue against groups and you should focus on the opinions instead. If you argue against a group of people, there will be people in that group who are on your side and you'll accidentally be throwing under the bus, vital allies that can change an opinion from within rather than trying to chip away at the psychological shielding groups tend to put up.

Even deeper than that, though, I would suggest not trying to label places like Dynasty as one group's or the other's. It's quite counterproductive to argue against groups and you should focus on the opinions instead.

I generally agree with that practice, for casual arguments among friends anyway. But in that post I was responding to the claim that "transphobia does not happen here," itself a response to a trans confession of feeling unwelcome. The point I wanted to get at was that even if that skeptic personally challenges any explicit transphobia on the site, there is still a larger context to why someone might feel rejection and sometimes disgust even from allies (most notably so in clashes around futa). I labeled that feeling as being in a cis space because I wanted to emphasize how cis norms become seen as natural to yuri and certainly not political, while outside perspective can be freely treated as those of a political agenda or alien culture. That said, I like Dynasty's community and agree that identity politics are not necessary to draw upon for every dispute, but then again, sometimes you're not arguing with friends.

last edited at Apr 23, 2017 7:44PM

Even deeper than that, though, I would suggest not trying to label places like Dynasty as one group's or the other's. It's quite counterproductive to argue against groups and you should focus on the opinions instead.

I generally agree with that practice, for casual arguments among friends anyway. But in that post I was responding to the claim that "transphobia does not happen here," itself a response to a trans confession of feeling unwelcome. The point I wanted to get at was that even if that skeptic personally challenges any explicit transphobia on the site, there is still a larger context to why someone might feel rejection and sometimes disgust even from allies (most notably so in clashes around futa). I labeled that feeling as being in a cis space because I wanted to emphasize how cis norms become seen as natural to yuri and certainly not political, while outside perspective can be freely treated as those of a political agenda or alien culture. That said, I like Dynasty's community and agree that identity politics are not necessary to draw upon for every dispute, but then again, sometimes you're not arguing with friends.

Trying to be generous to UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins's position, I took his comment as less "transphobia doesn't happen here" and more "transphobia is largely mitigated here". If it's the latter, he's probably taking a progressive rather than revolutionary position on social change, meaning you're more likely to disagree on his approach to solving social justice problems rather than his being transphobic in this specific instance.

I'd probably argue that Dynasty's at a trans-tolerant enough point that it'd be hard to bring it to a more tolerant position without certain structural changes to things like cis-normative tagging trends and deeper conversations on what sex and gender structurally are (and maybe deeper discussions of how we use stereotypes). Problem with that is you'd have a slim chance of getting the trans people around here to agree on some of those topics, let alone everyone else...

"I was avoiding dynasty for awhile all-together because I thought this was a manga site for queer cis women and it was best for me to not invade their space." This is the main thing that concerned me, and I still feel like there's an inkling of that this last reply. Actions and mindsets that directly remove yourself from conversations because it's "not my place" only serve to create rifts. I'm not really sure I can rectify this paragraph with the previous one other than by taking the progressive stance of, "let people bicker with each other and it'll work itself out."

he's probably taking a progressive rather than revolutionary position on social change, meaning you're more likely to disagree on his approach to solving social justice problems rather than his being transphobic in this specific instance.

Agreed, that’s why I never actually accused them of transphobia, just of being wrong.

I'd probably argue that Dynasty's at a trans-tolerant enough point that it'd be hard to bring it to a more tolerant position without certain structural …. Problem with that is you'd have a slim chance of getting the trans people around here to agree on some of those topics, let alone everyone else...

Hah, that's regrettably true, although being a radical rather than a progressive, I do not especially care for tolerance. But yeah, we're on the same page with regard to the need, however idealistic, for structural changes. And while everyone waits for that, there's still enough explicitly anti-trans voices on the site to keep even tolerance at bay - and yep, the community is good at standing up to outright garbage, but things get less friendly the minute the conversation starts drifting away from popular ally metaphors and arguments.

Actions and mindsets that directly remove yourself from conversations because it's "not my place" only serve to create rifts. I'm not really sure I can rectify this paragraph with the previous one other than by taking the progressive stance of, "let people bicker with each other and it'll work itself out."

Yeah, I get that. But I don't think the OP was the one creating the rift. They were just tired of suffering within it. And that’s fine.

To clarify, I did say, in the very first sentence, that we do get the occasional occurrence of transphobia in the Forum, but such instances are quickly shot down. What I meant by "transphobia as such" (and I realise I should have made myself more clear) was what the original poster was talking about. Basically, active, site-wide hostility that openly says trans people are unwelcome, and should just leave, as I understood from their comment. Anyway, poor wording on my part.

I took his comment as less "transphobia doesn't happen here" and more "transphobia is largely mitigated here".

This, basically. And no, I do not consider it taking a progressive stance on social change, and any of that. Just stating that this is the usual atmosphere on this site. Cases of open transphobia are moderated, and there are no groups of cis-women going after trans people for "sticking their nose in their space".
In short, I probably should have been more specific in my comment.

last edited at Apr 24, 2017 1:54AM

Wow :0 this forum sure was some huge philosophical talk but I'm just here to say that I really love this tag, it's so cute ! I wish there were more of these but Japan-chan ... ;-; my favourite one for this tag will always be this wonderful doujin by Garun
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/childhood_friend_yuri

So, considering that this thread exists, I want to ask for the opinion of people in regarsd to a recent protest of the Trans-community against Lebians in the UK. I only want to hear if somebody heard of it or not because I saw it and I am conflicted on what the actual heck is going on here, like why is the Trans-community protesting to "Remove the L in LGBT" because I don't understand where that is coming from and I want to hear peoples opinions on it since I don't know where anyones stand on this is.

last edited at Apr 22, 2019 5:49AM

So, considering that this thread exists, I want to ask for the opinion of people in regarsd to a recent protest of the Trans-community against Lebians in the UK. I only want to hear if somebody heard of it or not because I saw it and I am conflicted on what the actual heck is going on here, like why is the Trans-community protesting to "Remove the L in LGBT" because I don't understand where that is coming from and I want to hear peoples opinions on it since I don't know where anyones stand on this is.

It wasn't the trans community protesting against lesbians, it was the lesbian community saying they should leave the LGBT label because they don't like being associated with trans women who they think are men, mind you when I say lesbian community I don't mean the whole of it just shitty TERFS
Here's a quote from the leader of the people campaigning:

“The only way to fight lesbian erasure within ‘LGBT+’ groups is to... create an autonomous and strong lesbian community and build alliances with all feminists willing to fight against male domination,”

last edited at Apr 22, 2019 6:09AM

So, considering that this thread exists, I want to ask for the opinion of people in regarsd to a recent protest of the Trans-community against Lebians in the UK. I only want to hear if somebody heard of it or not because I saw it and I am conflicted on what the actual heck is going on here, like why is the Trans-community protesting to "Remove the L in LGBT" because I don't understand where that is coming from and I want to hear peoples opinions on it since I don't know where anyones stand on this is.

It wasn't the trans community protesting against lesbians, it was the lesbian community saying they should leave the LGBT label because they don't like being associated with trans women who they think are men, mind you when I say lesbian community I don't mean the whole of it just shitty TERFS
Here's a quote from the leader of the people campaigning:

“The only way to fight lesbian erasure within ‘LGBT+’ groups is to... create an autonomous and strong lesbian community and build alliances with all feminists willing to fight against male domination,”

Yeah, this is largely a bunch of "political lesbians" raising a big stink because the rest of the acronym doesn't hate trans people as much as they do. Anti-trans rags like After Ellen have been pushing hard against the "queer community" lately, and tripling down on attacking trans and non-binary folks too, talking up the same sort of "pure lesbian" stuff. It's weird how much traction TERFism gets in UK in particular though, a lot of prominent bigots come out of there.

So, considering that this thread exists, I want to ask for the opinion of people in regarsd to a recent protest of the Trans-community against Lebians in the UK. I only want to hear if somebody heard of it or not because I saw it and I am conflicted on what the actual heck is going on here, like why is the Trans-community protesting to "Remove the L in LGBT" because I don't understand where that is coming from and I want to hear peoples opinions on it since I don't know where anyones stand on this is.

It wasn't the trans community protesting against lesbians, it was the lesbian community saying they should leave the LGBT label because they don't like being associated with trans women who they think are men, mind you when I say lesbian community I don't mean the whole of it just shitty TERFS
Here's a quote from the leader of the people campaigning:

“The only way to fight lesbian erasure within ‘LGBT+’ groups is to... create an autonomous and strong lesbian community and build alliances with all feminists willing to fight against male domination,”

Yeah, this is largely a bunch of "political lesbians" raising a big stink because the rest of the acronym doesn't hate trans people as much as they do. Anti-trans rags like After Ellen have been pushing hard against the "queer community" lately, and tripling down on attacking trans and non-binary folks too, talking up the same sort of "pure lesbian" stuff. It's weird how much traction TERFism gets in UK in particular though, a lot of prominent bigots come out of there.

Ah, okay. Thank you for the information.