Minutoh
Forgot to ask, but what is your Steam username? Cause I'm kind of curious about your rant... and just you know, no I won't for some reason try to add you as friend or contact you on Steam, because I can't since I never put 5$ there, damn you Steam! (>_>)

LumberingCrane
Thanks for clarifying, I already expected it was not as bad as people are making it to be, it's pretty obvious people are reacting like this just because they thought it was going to be 100% yuri even though I don't remember anywhere saying it was, though I can be mistaken about that, and I didn't know the BDSM was avoidable, I got the impression it was one of the focus of the VN.

Minutoh
Forgot to ask, but what is your Steam username? Cause I'm kind of curious about your rant... and just you know, no I won't for some reason try to add you as friend or contact you on Steam, because I can't since I never put 5$ there, damn you Steam! (>_>)

LumberingCrane
Thanks for clarifying, I already expected it was not as bad as people are making it to be, it's pretty obvious people are reacting like this just because they thought it was going to be 100% yuri even though I don't remember anywhere saying it was, though I can be mistaken about that, and I didn't know the BDSM was avoidable, I got the impression it was one of the focus of the VN.

Mega Mini Knight! Crappy name, I know, but at least it's creative. Looking back at it, it's kind of a dumb rant (as all rants are), but, hey, I feel no shame about me being an idiot.

As for the 100% yuri thing, while I suppose it wasn't directly stated that it was 100% yuri, the marketing for it sure seemed like it was. "Girls tying up other girls," the trailers just showing the yuri scenes, the site stating that none of the dudes were romanceable, etc., etc. It seems just a bit dishonest to me to not mention the het parts at all in the trailers or whatnot, but, really, it's Love's VN and she can do whatever she wants.

http://imgur.com/a/HytYF
So this is the cause of the drama?

http://imgur.com/a/HytYF
So this is the cause of the drama?

Man, it seems even more screwed up now with more images. Granted, maybe it's less screwed up in context since I have no idea what's going on, but still... I kinda doubt that.

Also, is that feminine boy she's talking about referring to that crossdresser guy (forgot his name, sorry, whoever you are) ? GAH, IS THERE ANYONE ON THIS FREAKING SHIP THE HERO CAN'T HAVE SEX WITH?? I never played Fire Emblem, but this scene in particular kinda reminds me of the whole Soleil fiasco. And, man, if it really is him, the website pretty much blatantly lied (it did about the pres and cousin tol though, I guess). I suppose that thing it said about "you're a lesbian but even you have to admit he's cute" should have raised some red flags. At this rate, the Hero is going to be able to have sex with her fucking brother (I really hope this isn't the case... He's not on the ship though (unless he is) so I'm gonna hold out hope...)

You know, the last time I asked this was kind of an expression of displeasure, but IS there anyone on the ship you can't have sex with?

Edit: Alright, let's see the blatant lies the site told us (I'm not being serious here by the way). So, the Boy and the Pres both have "He wishes" next to the romanceable thing. I guess that's not really a denial, so you got me there, Love! I've heard that there's a scene wirh the Athlete and the Nerd too, and "No" and "Too flustered at even the thought" sure seem like clear denials to me. Granted, I didn't see any visual confirmation of these scenes, so this might not actually be true. Also, I knew I wasn't going crazy, MC's name is The Beast! I wonder why it's changed to The Hero in those images.

last edited at Oct 12, 2016 2:50AM

You know, the last time I asked this was kind of an expression of displeasure, but IS there anyone on the ship you can't have sex with?

The maid I think, which sucks to be honest considering I think of her as the best character in the game. She might as well be fanservice with all the references she makes but it was still effective for me.

Weird, did I have the most celibate playthrough possible in the game without realizing it? I did not have any sexual relations with any man or woman in the ship besides The Beauty.

Dude, she either just confirmed a lesbian character is raped or consents to heterosexual sex, which is somewhat invalidating to lesbianity, and neither of which I'm looking for when I put money down for a yuri game.

It's a choice for the player to make to go for a het route.

For your information, there are a lot of Otome games that kinda do the reverse (adding an optional lesbian route). It's usually there to appeal to the "other" audience and give them an incentive to play the game the way they'd enjoy it rather than forcing them to go for the intented routes.

If you're going to complain about "lesbian girl being tempted to go het by character choice", then it'd make sense to complain about all the het by default girls we player can choose to turn lesbian for our own convenience in a lot of games and not only VN.

If some avoidable content rubs you the wrong way, either skip it or don't get the game at all, it's not like you're forced into it

You know, the last time I asked this was kind of an expression of displeasure, but IS there anyone on the ship you can't have sex with?

The maid I think, which sucks to be honest considering I think of her as the best character in the game. She might as well be fanservice with all the references she makes but it was still effective for me.

Weird, did I have the most celibate playthrough possible in the game without realizing it? I did not have any sexual relations with any man or woman in the ship besides The Beauty.

I'm not sure how this VN works, but I guess you weren't being a manipulative asshole and all? You know, is there actually any romance in this or is it just sex? It seems like the only two characters who the MC can have an actual relationship with are The Beauty and the... Stalker?, but I'm kind of unsure now if there's actual love involved... If there is and the het routes are easily avoidable, then I might consider buying this... Actually, yeah, no... I try to dabble in every game genre out there, but I swore to myself that I would NEVER buy an ecchi/porn game. I hope I don't break this vow to myself like I did with my vow to never watch moe anime (AND LOOK WHERE I AM NOW!)

If some avoidable content rubs you the wrong way, either skip it or don't get the game at all, it's not like you're forced into it

Prior to the game's release (and the following backlash) there was no mention of any het content, avoidable or not. It would be like, say, having an FPS that was marketed as an FPS suddenly turn into an RTS all of a sudden if you follow a specific route, only here it also has weird undertones, judging from I've seen.

Granted, I don't know what triggers the scene, nor do I know if there's an option to nope out of it. Point is, people aren't complaining because there's certain content in the game, they're complaining because the presence of this content was never made clear. Comparing it to otome games isn't exactly fair, since those tend to be pretty clear on what you can expect from them, often openly advertising all possible romance routes so people can have the good old "my waifu is better than your waifu" arguments even before the game itself is out. Fetish fuel is perfectly acceptable when it doesn't pretend to be anything other than fetish fuel.

last edited at Oct 12, 2016 4:07AM

The comparison stands in that Otome games are usually about a female protagonist going for a male character in a romance route. A yuri route in those is just as "out of place" as a het route in a yuri game because it's not the intented point of the game. They're added as optional bonus (and are often either secrets or harder to get than the intented routes) to appeal to a larger audience. From what I read on the game's main page, the whole game is about being manipulative and have some rather serious tones (to not say darkish). I personnally have no interest in that game, mostly because the protagonist doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, but I have no issue with the content itself for those who'll enjoy it.

And the fps/rts thing is beside the point because those are gameplay mechanics while het/yuri routes are plot points. Those VN stays VN no matter which route you go. As long as that route is optional, which some people here already mentioned it to be, then it doesn't change the fact that it's a yuri game at the core. I would agree with you if that route was not only unavoidable, but also considered the "true route", which I really doubt it is. Or you're saying that otome games that have one yuri route are yuri game as well ?

The comparison stands in that Otome games are usually about a female protagonist going for a male character in a romance route.

Yes, and they state outright what possible romance options you'll be able to pursue. There are also generally warnings for any kind of unusual content (although Japan being Japan, H-scenes in nukige can have dubious consent here and there because "true love" and all that).

A yuri route in those is just as "out of place" as a het route in a yuri game because it's not the intented point of the game.

I'm not talking about it being out of place or not. That's beside the point. I'm talking about the game being marketed as having a certain kind of content, so players rightfully expected only that content everywhere. Even in optional routes.

I personnally have no interest in that game, mostly because the protagonist doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, but I have no issue with the content itself for those who'll enjoy it.

As I said, fetish fuel is fine when it realizes that it's fetish fuel and doesn't try to pretend to be anything else. If the game was advertised as "mostly yuri but has a het scene or two because why the hell not, amirite?", people wouldn't have been surprised and annoyed by those scenes. Just like nobody is seriously pissed at games like Euphoria for having fucked up content, because people were warned about said content before they bought the game. And no, I'm not drawing parallels between Euphoria and Ladykiller, it was just the first "controversial" VN that I could remember.

Those VN stays VN no matter which route you go.

Yet the content changes.

If you don't like the FPS/RTS comparison, here's a different one. A game (not this one, just some game) was marketed as a slice of life fluff. There was no mention of anything but SoL while it was in development. However, after the release somebody found out that by choosing a certain route your protagonist turns from a regular bland adult into the Chosen One who bears the fate of the world on their shoulders and has to fulfil the ancient prophecy to save the world from two clans that... where was I again? Ah yes, a sudden shift in tone. Or a change in content that wasn't clearly shown in previews and demos.

False advertising is the problem, not the content itself.

last edited at Oct 12, 2016 5:00AM

I'm not sure how this VN works, but I guess you weren't being a manipulative asshole and all? You know, is there actually any romance in this or is it just sex? It seems like the only two characters who the MC can have an actual relationship with are The Beauty and the... Stalker?, but I'm kind of unsure now if there's actual love involved...

Alright, to address some points here:
1st point: Yeah, no, I was manipulative. In fact, that was what I focused on. You could say I focused on screwing with everyone instead of actually screwing everyone: Blackmail, humiliation, steering the conversation into my character's favor; you name it. There's a gameplay mechanic that sort of requires you to be manipulative, so that's what I did to get the most amount of...points.

2nd point: There's definitely love involved. That's why I said that I was very satisfied with my first and only ending in the game, since it was happy all around (well, at least for me and the partner that I chose out of the two).

To make the whole routes thing in this game clear: The only routes that are actually significant that you can get in this game are with The Beauty and The Stalker -- that's why the website said that those two are the only pursuable options. Even if you have sex with the others, those are pretty inconsequential to the main story. I don't even think they affect anything (I say 'think' because my character didn't have sex with anyone besides my main route which was The Beauty). I saw a description someone made of the 'het rape' scene and they said that afterwards, the whole event was never brought up again nor was it ever acknowledged after that -- so that backs up my point.

An apt comparison would be the Social Links of Persona 3 and 4. That aspect of the gameplay didn't really change the endings of those games nor did they change the flow of the main story; they are inconsequential to the narrative. Same with this game. I repeat, INCONSEQUENTIAL. I still find it completely understandable if the het routes put you off, but please don't condemn the game for it.

The only thing that is actually significant to the ending is the number of points that you get. I found out later that my social manipulation was a good idea since the happy ending I got apparently relied on those points. Obviously getting enough suspicion will get you kicked off the boat and will alter the story as well.

In short: the things that actually affect the ending are the suspicion and the points that you get in-game, and possibly how you go about the main route.

In game speak: If you're going to be min/maxing this visual novel, just look at the side routes as a way to get points from people and avoiding suspicion long enough to reach the ending. You don't need to care how you deal with other people's nonsense since the game is gracious enough to warn you if this particular dialogue option will result with more suspicion or more points in your favor; you don't even need to read what that dialogue choice is. Pretty convenient for people wanting to min/max.

Not saying people should accept the het routes because they don't have narrative substance, but I just wanted to clarify the kind of routes this game has that are fairly unique when compared to other visual novels.

last edited at Oct 12, 2016 7:57AM

One thing I'd like to add about the whole otome game and yuri game comparison discussion, is that I feel like people who like yuri are less tolerant of added-on het route than otome fans are of yuri routes tacked on to otome games. I think this is why we very rarely get to see het routes in yuri games. (Does Katahane count as one?)

Dark Souls 3 PvP Arena Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg5ZCqsh66E

3v3 fights

@LumberingCrane

Nice to know that there's actual romance involved. I figured that there would be based on the creator, but this whole fiasco worried me a tad bit. It's also nice to know that you can be a manipulative asshole without getting a bad ending... I mean, it seems like that's pretty much the whole point of the VN from the trailers (though they appear to be pretty damn misleading...), and, quite frankly, it sounds fun to engage in that sort of stuff.

@Gralwer

I agree with your points completely. While I don't really have as much of a problem with the het routes anymore since I've since found out that they're avoidable and, more importantly, not freaking rape, I still kind of do have a problem with the fact that they weren't advertised at all. I know Love never EXPLICITLY stated that this was a full yuri VN, but, to me, at least, the marketing sure made it seem like it was, especially that "girls tying up other girls" line. Where's the "assholes dudes tying up girls" line, huh? I just find the inclusion of het content more than a bit odd considering the fact that they weren't advertised at all... Maybe they could've attracted some het lovers or something with the promise of 5 minutes of het BDSM, but I don't know. I mean, really, who the hell is going to buy a game like this if they don't like yuri? I don't know about you all, but I know for sure that I despise any form of het in my yuri games. I don't know if Sweet Volley High is any good, but at least the marketing explicitly states that there's a het route (my problem with the het route, though, is that it's marketed so prominently when there are FOUR YURI ROUTES, but that's a different discussion entirely...). I mean, even if they did advertise it, I doubt that they would attract many people who like het BDSM stuff anyway taking Lumbering's info that the het "routes" are pretty much inconsequential... people who like that kind of stuff would probably be more into things that are primarily het, so I don't really see the purpose of this...

Then again, yeah, I haven't read the VN, so it's possible that they serve some kind of purpose. It seems unlikely to me considering how unimportant they apparently are, but, yeah, it's certainly wrong to judge something I haven't even read...

O-oh my... MikeKob, the best God Hand player as far as i'm aware, actually commented on my shitty video? I'm blushing hardcore here yo
Speaking of action games, got myself an xbox 360 controller for my pc since SCP Server isn't reliable at all, i'm glad that the face buttons feels so good to press which is good for God Hand, but boy did they go out of their way to make the shittiest shoulder buttons i've seen, my hands just feels awkward on a game like Devil May Cry where you're constantly holding the R button while also using the face ones. I hope that i'm just holding it the wrong way and that it's secrets will soon reveal itself for me

The only thing I hated on the 360 controller was the dpad.

I'm replaying Witcher 3 and Skyrim. My absolute fav. rpg of all time.

Funny thing is i used to hate Witcher 2 and thought it was overrated.

Another yuri-related visual novel with three female routes recently came out: 'Catch Canvas'.
It's not entirely yuri since the protagonist can be either male or female, but after finishing it I can say that it's not a pronoun swap like Huniepop was; there was definitely situations exclusive to the female protagonist. Be warned though that it's not exactly independent routes, but more like you go through the game and at the very end choose one out of three endings dedicated to each girl.

That's good to know, I really hate when the devs think just swapping a pronoun is enough to make an actual female route and end up with stupid reactions for a girl like "omg a GIRL just TALKED to me, what do I do ?!". -.-

Well, I am finally managing to pump hours into Kindred Spirits on the Roof... It's surprisingly well written, very well written... Definitely better than the vast majority of yuri mangas... Even when joggling around so many characters and managing to give depth to them without losing focus on the rest of the characters. Not something I've ever seen done well... As well as so many small details in their depth, interactions/dynamics with other characters.

Absolutely loving it. Nearing the end tho.

Late to the party... but yeah, I see why ppl really liked it.

Guess next for me is Highway Blossoms, and maybe Starlight Vega(althought for some reason I don't feel much motivation to get into the latter). I don't know how either of these got received tho, I did not keep an eye on em.

last edited at Oct 15, 2016 5:13AM

Well, my copy of Valkyrie Drive arrived today so...you're on hold DQ VII.

Another yuri-related visual novel with three female routes recently came out: 'Catch Canvas'.
It's not entirely yuri since the protagonist can be either male or female, but after finishing it I can say that it's not a pronoun swap like Huniepop was; there was definitely situations exclusive to the female protagonist. Be warned though that it's not exactly independent routes, but more like you go through the game and at the very end choose one out of three endings dedicated to each girl.

I certainly appreciate the fact that there are some female-exclusive lines and situations, the latter being something that HuniePop did not have. Does it assume like you're male in other situations though? HuniePop was pretty good at keeping it gender-neutral, but there were a few lines here and there that slipped through the cracks (ex: the fairy girl's "junk in the trunk" line... I'm pretty sure that's only said in relation to that thing). It always amused me that Audrey would say "Gaaaaaay" in that annoying insulty way when, you know, she's gay herself... Though it is Audrey, so it kind of fits.

And, it's yet another instance of false advertising with this hybrid yuri game. I mean, maybe it's just me being stupid, but I think that most people would expect three full-fledged routes when the description talks about romancing three girls. I don't really have a problem with there pretty much being only one route (I adore KNs too), but it seems a tad bit misleading to me. I've been noticing a disturbing trend with every single hybrid yuri thing released this week, and I hope it doesn't continue...

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 3:39AM

Another Yuri visual novel on Steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/432100/
Negligee,

don't know anything about it, but it just looks like the usual VN shovelware that Steam constantly gets.

So all we get from the Sun/Moon demo is that ugly Ash-Greninja? it seems bad...kinda like a mega that needs a KO 1st? I'd rather have Protean honestly. And where's the love for Fennekin Chespin? Also LEAKS EVERYWHERE

...Oh hey NX tomorrow? uh...ok?

...I found Legend of Legaia yuri...huh.

So... Nintendo Switch....
Hard to say what to fully think of it without a lineup aside from the few we saw lol Skyrim
But for the console itself i gotta say i don't have much expectation, the idea of being both a console and a handheld is kinda neat i guess and this time there's no gimmick in the controller per se, at least not at first glance, but the thing seems to be quite similar to the Wii U powerwise and the framerate on Zelda Breath of Fire got nightmarish on portable mode
Definitively won't hold off my plans for the PS4 because of this