Probably one of them, if someone could search that chapter, I'm working so I can't read it now.

Plica looks like it, but I never read it so finding it would be hard. Looking at "non-moe art" reminded me about other example from here.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 3:41PM

I think I've found it.

I think I've found it.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it, I was not sure but I had the impression she slapped that man, thanks none.

Ok. So I finally read this new manga and... siiiiiigh, man it was so cliche.

MC is not a lesbian. Boys harassed her so she developed hate of men (seriously? she faints because of fear? Wtf >.>?), but was saved by another girl. It's obvious she will become close with someone who saved her, regardless of gender. They spend 1 day together, kissed by mistake and then girl disappeared without a word. MC was excited by kiss and called it her first love, but common, she was just a kid. It's obvious she will react like that to her first experience. Later she is clearly thinking about that girl only because she regrets separating with someone she just became friends with and is ashamed that her first love was a girl. Her first love turns out to not be what she thought it was (aka guy) and MC gets blackmailed. Change that girl to a guy and you have standard romance-comedy plot (changing wrong sex, to guy is actually a jerk or something). Typical "I'm my first-love-sexual" story. No matter who you are, I'll come to love you. Destiny and all that crap. So far MC isn't show to have any interest in girls and only wish to met her 1-day-friend again. Unless next chapter has her giving some statement on that I say she was just charmed by being saved. It seems that tittle was just supposed to be catchy and probably kinda true since series is going to be riding on yuri fanservice.

Gender-bender wise, this story is so standard too. Guy meets girl, is charmed by her, but she disappears. Years later he still remember her and want to meet her again. And there she is. She is in his class. She remembers him. She is actually a guy. Just reversed. Anyway. Whatever it is yuri or not depends if guy in question actually accept becoming a girl. Since he clearly said that he wants to stay a boy I guess, he doesn't. I understand he was already cursed when he meet MC for the first time? Cos otherwise he would have to cross-dress at that time and it doesn't seem to be a case. He probably ran away because he got scared of being exposed. Kissing in order to let him stay guy part doesn't make any logic sense to me, but it's manga so I guess I should just go with it. If anything this setup so far only assure me that this manga thinks along side of "Her falling in love in a girl was just a mistake, because it was actually a guy and because it wasn't possible for 2 girls to fall in love to begin with. By helping him, MC will understand that guys ain't bad, so she will get cured from her phobia." or something like that.

I think it will go standard route "Girl is blackmailed to go along with guy who makes her do his bidding, but they will eventually fall in love in each other and after finding way to make him guy permanently, they will live happily ever after". Unless mangaka make a twist and turn him into girl for real. That would be fresh. But yea, I doubt it will happen.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 7:52PM

I think that story from Takemiya Jin is the only one I ever found that uses abuse and trauma in a serious manner with a really lesbian character that don't end in het, and that have good written of course.

Well written, I don't know but there is this one too were the girl doesn't turn het and the trauma isn't the reason she like the other girl. While there is shit about "she not a guy so it's okay", it does looks more about the person than about the gender
http://dynasty-scans.com/anthologies/spring_summer_fall_winter

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:09PM

I think that story from Takemiya Jin is the only one I ever found that uses abuse and trauma in a serious manner with a really lesbian character that don't end in het, and that have good written of course.

Well written, I don't know but there is this one too were the girl doesn't turn het and the trauma isn't the reason she like the other girl. It looks more about the person than about the gender
http://dynasty-scans.com/anthologies/spring_summer_fall_winter

Oh yea. I totally forgot about that one. Yea it's great manga with yuri ending. Thanks for reminding me about it <3

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:09PM

I think that story from Takemiya Jin is the only one I ever found that uses abuse and trauma in a serious manner with a really lesbian character that don't end in het, and that have good written of course.

Well written, I don't know but there is this one too were the girl doesn't turn het and the trauma isn't the reason she like the other girl. While there is shit about "she not a guy so it's okay", it does looks more about the person than about the gender
http://dynasty-scans.com/anthologies/spring_summer_fall_winter

Taken alone, the She-Wolf chapter (which was of course originally a one-shot) makes it clear the MC was raped and the other girl was molested, and both developed a fear of men, the latter turning to women (the MC doesn't show interest in anyone up to that point). Now the later Red Riding Hood Strikes Back story seems to be an attempt to fix that, but even then she's considering "trauma = lesbian" as a valid possibility.

I think that story from Takemiya Jin is the only one I ever found that uses abuse and trauma in a serious manner with a really lesbian character that don't end in het, and that have good written of course.

Well written, I don't know but there is this one too were the girl doesn't turn het and the trauma isn't the reason she like the other girl. While there is shit about "she not a guy so it's okay", it does looks more about the person than about the gender
http://dynasty-scans.com/anthologies/spring_summer_fall_winter

Taken alone, the She-Wolf chapter (which was of course originally a one-shot) makes it clear the MC was raped and the other girl was molested, and both developed a fear of men, the latter turning to women (the MC doesn't show interest in anyone up to that point). Now the later Red Riding Hood Strikes Back story seems to be an attempt to fix that, but even then she's considering "trauma = lesbian" as a valid possibility.

Yeah I was thinking about the riding hood three chapters and I had totally forgot part of the one shot and the wolf trauma. Hers looks totally the trauma = lesbian kind...

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:20PM

I think that story from Takemiya Jin is the only one I ever found that uses abuse and trauma in a serious manner with a really lesbian character that don't end in het, and that have good written of course.

Well written, I don't know but there is this one too were the girl doesn't turn het and the trauma isn't the reason she like the other girl. While there is shit about "she not a guy so it's okay", it does looks more about the person than about the gender
http://dynasty-scans.com/anthologies/spring_summer_fall_winter

Taken alone, the She-Wolf chapter (which was of course originally a one-shot) makes it clear the MC was raped and the other girl was molested, and both developed a fear of men, the latter turning to women (the MC doesn't show interest in anyone up to that point). Now the later Red Riding Hood Strikes Back story seems to be an attempt to fix that, but even then she's considering "trauma = lesbian" as a valid possibility.

Yeah I was thinking about the riding hood three chapters and I had totally forgot part of the one shot and the wolf trauma. Hers is totally the trauma = lesbian kind...

I think thematically, the teacher couple in the volume holds everything together and shows that being a lesbian is independent of all that. If they weren't included, I'd find the story as a whole more problematic.

Right Nevri? I'm all for yuri and lesbian characters, but unfortunately sometimes our yuri googles blind us to the truth, that almost all of those "lesbian" characters are not really gay, they're bisexual at best if we're luck, so it might make a little easier to accept when they end with a man, which is rare since most times it's really poorly made and have shitty writting, like Inu x Boku SS and Working.

I like that one trafi, those two stories are probably the only ones that are good and don't end in het that we're going to find, not that I can really talk about something being good or not, or if it have shitty writting, I'm the kind of person that read, watch or play anything that gets my attentiom, even something written in toilet paper, with shit, which would be a case of literal shitty writting...

And I agree Nezchan, alone those chapters would not be as good...

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:23PM

Are you okay T? You seem to have launched somewhat of a crusade against yuri goggles as of late?

Taken alone, the She-Wolf chapter (which was of course originally a one-shot) makes it clear the MC was raped and the other girl was molested, and both developed a fear of men, the latter turning to women (the MC doesn't show interest in anyone up to that point). Now the later Red Riding Hood Strikes Back story seems to be an attempt to fix that, but even then she's considering "trauma = lesbian" as a valid possibility.

I'm not really sure. She-wolf could be lesbian from the beginning and just happened to get molested/raped too. Sure, it isn't clearly stated, but it isn't the other way around as well. Imo it is told vague enough you can pick your interpretation. I got no problem with thinking that she was lesbian all along even with just that one chapter.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:29PM

Are you okay T? You seem to have launched somewhat of a crusade against yuri goggles as of late?

I'm on a crusade against people who insist a character is a lesbian and then start to scream "Lesbian turned straight! Lesbian turned straight"! Like retardeds, when it's obvious that she was not really lesbian when you analyze the way the story and characters where made.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:33PM

Are you okay T? You seem to have launched somewhat of a crusade against yuri goggles as of late?

I'm on a crusade against people who insist a character is a lesbian and then start to scream "Lesbian turned straight! Lesbian turned straight"! Like retardeds, when it's obvious that she was not really lesbian when you analyze the way the story and characters where made.

Dude, quit being the site's resident expert on what makes a Real Lesbian (tm). It's getting annoying, and if you're to the point where you're being insulting about it ("retards", etc.) then it's time to take a break.

I see Thiaguinho-sama point, but I agree he is going little overboard with it. Can you slow down a bit? I don't want to see any unnecessary quarrels here. I think we got your point already. Not everyone has to agree with it.

Yeah sorry guys, lately my sleep is worse so I'm not really thinking straight, soon I'll be back to normal. ( - 3 - )

Yeah sorry guys, lately my sleep is worse so I'm not really thinking straight, soon I'll be back to normal. ( - 3 - )

Just take naps in the middle of the day like I do and you'll feel better in no time!

Yeah sorry guys, lately my sleep is worse so I'm not really thinking straight, soon I'll be back to normal. ( - 3 - )

Just take naps in the middle of the day like I do and you'll feel better in no time!

I have work so can't take naps, and I have insomnia too, so when I start to sleep just two hours a day if I'm luck I start to get more jerkish and stupid, instead of just idiot like always.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 9:07PM

I think we can have actual lesbians on most of Amano Shuninta's works... some troubled ones and bi girls with Takemiya-sensei

i dare not dwell into this argument, I am still thinking about it,as a real life lesbian I find all of this confusing
xD
and no,I don't hate men lol

To begin with it's not really something you can tell about someone else, it's more about how the person see themself (and it can evolve). Better avoid putting (or assume) people in category in their stead

Personally, when I use the word "lesbian"/"gay", I generally mean the person like women/same sex with other preference open. Not as a label.

I think we can have actual lesbians on most of Amano Shuninta's works... some troubled ones and bi girls with Takemiya-sensei

There are actual lesbians in other mangas. There is no doubt. We were discussing specific case of "hate of men=lesbian" and how it's portrayed in this and similar mangas.

Actually, I was focusing on this as I was reading, only because Thiaguinho-sama made such a fuss about it. Now that I clearly thought about it, it is really easy. Only reason MC said it was her first love, was because she kissed her by mistake and didn't dislike it. There wasn't really any sexual tension before and after. She never dwelt into questioning her sexuality. She was only charmed by that particular person (which turned out to be a guy, so many can say it solves everything) so as I said before, unless MC makes any statement on who she likes, I can't think of her as les/bi, just straight girl who got confused.

i dare not dwell into this argument, I am still thinking about it,as a real life lesbian I find all of this confusing
xD
and no,I don't hate men lol

I'm actually a "real life lesbian" as well and I'm not sure 100% about my sexuality, but there are things that are clear for me so I think that I can judge this MC pretty fairly.

I won't deny I have general dislike for men, but I don't know how much it actually affects my preferences.

I really din't think a thread about a manga I disliked with just one chapter, will make me want to read all the tree pages, participate and even re-read the chapter just to understand more and make a proper post o.o

@OriginalGengar

As a rule of thumb, if a lesbian hates guys, she's gonna be straight in the end.

Yes, in manga this seems to be a stated of fact, but in real life even if it is a possibility, its not always the truth.

@Norainhere

For real though, has anyone ever actually known someone that thought they were a lesbian but they really only hated men? Because that whole situation seems really convoluted to me

About this, I know two cases of women that hated men and stated being lesbians, one on them I think really is a lesbian, even if I don't really know how to explain why in this case, can't find the words (in english) maybe 'cause I'm sleepy, but for the other I don't really think so, being the first reason because she is currently in a relationship with a male, and they have already some years of relationship. For the record also, all of the latter relationships with women never lasted very much (the most being roughly 2 moths and the fever being 1 day) and admitted never being in love (she just thought they're were cute) and this man being her first love, the first she really care of.

@Thiaguinho-sama

(...)I know another manga more or less like this except the guy is not turning in a girl...

Maybe you were referring to this manga? It's the one I remembered after reading this at least u.u

---

About the manga itself, I din't find it funny in the slightest, more like a very bad joke...
I usually don't have anything against genderbender or even traps, but in this particular case, I find it very annoying. I don't really think Yashiro fall in love with Mikoto when they were kids, just that she got close to "her", for the reasons @Nevri already said. Aside from that, this is one of those mangas that I can't like any of the principal characters, Yashiro being a "little" over dramatic and dumb, Mikoto acting just like a.. jerk? Maybe I think he's a jerk just because I never can understand nor stand blackmailing, really.
My guess about how this will be is: Mikoto was already cursed when he knew Yashiro, he was already changed to a girl and after the accidental kiss he felt something wrong and for that he run away, that being that he recovered part of his male physiology because of the kiss itself, also that because the one almost "broke the curse" or give him the chance to being a male again was Yashiro he can't try to kiss another girl for returning being a guy but has to be the one he shared his first kiss?
If it's not something like this, or that he have feelings for her or anything, but that he only choose her for the sake of bullying her or because "it's more fun that way" I will reaaaly hate that guy -_-

PS: I wanted to respond to more, but I'm way too sleepy for that and also din't want to make a more large post :)

last edited at Jul 11, 2015 6:44AM

Kushirotsuki

About this, I know two cases of women that hated men and stated being lesbians, one on them I think really is a lesbian,

The question is if she was identifying as a lesbian before she started hating men. Being a lesbian and having bad experienced with a men isn't mutually exclusive as some keep on thinking. I'm interested too, if there is someone who was hetero, but after being made to hate men truly become homo.

Maybe I think he's a jerk just because I never can understand nor stand blackmailing, really.

Blackmail is standard and easiest way to set up romance comedy where main girl hates main guy but has to go along with him which gives them time to discover their "true love". Also guy always turns out to actually liked the girl to some degree before. I think your reaction is right, since we are supposed to dislike guy at first, but then find out he is actually nice. At least it's how this cliche works.

Mikoto was already cursed when he knew Yashiro, he was already changed to a girl and after the accidental kiss he felt something wrong and for that he run away, that being that he recovered part of his male physiology because of the kiss itself, also that because the one almost "broke the curse" or give him the chance to being a male again was Yashiro he can't try to kiss another girl for returning being a guy but has to be the one he shared his first kiss?

Wow, that actually make a lot of sense o.o I think you got it right, but only time (author) will tell.

last edited at Jul 11, 2015 8:27AM

I only remembered this thread today since I really hated the manga, but meh I will respond anyway.

@Nevri

The question is if she was identifying as a lesbian before she started hating men.

In her case, one of the reasons I think she truly is lesbian is that she already was go out with girls before she have a really bad experience with men and started to hate them, and also before that she never got interested in a man in the slightest.

Being a lesbian and having bad experienced with a men isn't mutually exclusive as some keep on thinking.

You're totally right, since the bast majority of lesbians I know, din't have any kind of bad experience with men at all, and they can have male friends just fine. Being lesbian or gay it's just that you can't feel any kind of attraction for the opposite gender, and have nothing to do with disliking/hating them.

I'm interested too, if there is someone who was hetero, but after being made to hate men truly become homo.

About this, I think it's impossible to become homo if you were hetero after being made to hate men, sexuality is not something you learn, you born with it, even if you don't realize it till you grow up or even latter if you got confused along the way.
I have myself as example, I'm bi, but at first I thought I was hetero just because I din't knew at the time that girls were an option, but even without knowing that, I was attracted to girls more than guys from the very beginning. Now at my 23 years old, I'm a lot less attracted to men since thanks to some, I started hating them, but if I see a really hot guy I still will at least have the "urge to see" even if I won't want to date him; also I have a little of harboring feelings for a male ex of mine, so even after start hating men I'm still a bi, my sexuality din't change. The point is, I think you can't really hate completely a whole gender, since aside the physical differences, there aren't that much differences and out there are very bad people, bad people, good people and very good people.

Blackmail is standard and easiest way to set up romance comedy where main girl hates main guy but has to go along with him which gives them time to discover their "true love". Also guy always turns out to actually liked the girl to some degree before. I think your reaction is right, since we are supposed to dislike guy at first, but then find out he is actually nice. At least it's how this cliche works.

My guess about how this will be is (...)

Wow, that actually make a lot of sense o.o I think you got it right, but only time (author) will tell.

Thank you for clarifying this, I absolutely din't have any clue about it, maybe I din't since any manga that I see with blackmail, I stop to reading them, because like I already said, they're definitely not my cup of tea. And yes, only the author will tell if my theory was right or not, but I will not know xD

last edited at Sep 14, 2015 10:25PM