Absolutely appreciate kyra's analysis so much. It definitely hits when explaining the current Sumin/Seju relationship that's at hand.

But interestingly enough, I'm not sure Seju is what Sumin needs at this point of her life. Of course, I give Seju a lot credit for sticking by the pain in the ass of a Sumin and being very dedicated in taking care of her but what Sumin may need in terms of a relationship is something fresh and new.

Sungji has this innocent outlook on life, simpler and naive, something Sumin lacks because of tragic experiences in life. It's an interesting contrast these two have and when they're together, you can tell what the effect does to one another. We see Sumin with that little blush again and a very apparent kindness while as Sungji displays a rather mature side of care and comfort for the latter

I think Seju knows of this, hence her enticement and instigation. She seems curious of this Sungji and wonders how and why this particular girl can change Sumin without even trying. I think the poor girl thinks it's time for Sumin to move on (or maybe not, sometimes she's just shady lol). I don't think it'd be them throwing away all those 10 years together if they did but rather, a new start for the both of them without those past burdens guilting them together.

Ahhh, but who knows? The story's just begun.

last edited at Jul 6, 2015 4:04PM

Meru I think the roadblock to Seju/Sumin is not actually Sumin herself. Specifically her refusal to open up and forgive the events of chapter 11. In fact, it's highly likely that they didn't talk about it at all and just swept it under the rug in my opinion.

I think if Sumin opened up and allowed Seju to be her support like before then they would work. But you are correct in saying that they are stuck in a limbo as of this point. There's nothing to be gained for both of them right now other than sex.

I think Sungji represents the possibility of a fresh start for sure whereas Seju represents stability. Perhaps Sungji is what's needed for Seju/Sumin to re-evaluate their relationship with each other and whether it's worth keeping. What I really like about Seju is that her motives are unclear. You get the impression that she wouldn't mind getting her hands a bit dirty.

What is Seju's motive in pushing Sumin and Sungji together? Why has she also expressed interest in Sungji? As I see it, there are two possibilities. One is that she is pushing Sungji/Sumin together out of the goodness of her heart. She wants Sumin to be happy, even if it's not with her. I kinda doubt this though from various little hints but I could be wrong.

The second possibility is that Seju is pushing Sungji/Sumin together so that they break and Sumin will return to her again. Perhaps Sumin will be so devastated by messing things up with Sungji that she will never stray from Seju again. This is the vibe I'm getting from Seju. I don't blame her for it though, she's very invested in Sumin. Even pushing it towards yandere levels even.

Either way Seju fascinates me. I want to see her relationship with Sumin untangled. At this point, it's hard to say whether Sumin will end up with Seju or with Sungji. I honestly don't mind if she ends up with Sungji but obviously my preference is Seju. Either way, someone is probably going to get hurt along the line. It'll be an interesting ride.

I too am on team Seju, I like her as a character. I think she has more to offer Sumin then Sungji ever will, even when certain plot details are revealed in later chapters.

First of all, they've been together since high-school. It's also strongly implied that Sumin got promoted/got to where she is now with a bit of help from Seju. She also genuinely cares about Sumin and if you've read the chapters, you get the vibe that Seju cares about Sumin a lot more. Sumin acts cold and disinterested and is even cruel towards Seju. I think it's Sumin that's using Seju as a sexual outlet rather than the other way around. Yet Seju still stays and has done so for more than 10 years. That says something.

It's overreacting to call seju a hoe, but I do have some different view towards the sumin-seju complex. Where somebody see devotion I see an inequality in this relationship.

The whole adolescence and most of sumin's adult life are under the influence of seju and her family. It freaks me out when i know even they are not in a relationship, seju knows every detail of sumin's life, who is her friend, whom she dates, tracing her outing, and she can enter her house freely. Yes, one can say she loves sumin that much, devotion is sweet, but controlling is another. For me, I think it's a little bit pathetic.

By the way, Seju is super rich, her family is powerful, it's pretty easy for her to take care of sumin and to arrange sumin's life without much efforts. To my suprise, although she might be the only one who knows the problem and vulnerability of sumin, in the past 10 years she never try to change the situation between them, but strengthened the emotional and material dependence. For me, somehow, sumin is more like a possession to seju, not someone you love and want her to be happy.

last edited at Jul 5, 2015 1:19AM

In fact, it's highly likely that they didn't talk about it at all and just swept it under the rug in my opinion.

You've just made me realize that's incredibly likely. I mean, Sumin completely shut down for a month or so after her parent's death. It wouldn't be a surprise if she avoided confrontation and just began to live under a facade of coldness. It's a defensive mechanism for her it seems.

In fact, it's highly likely that they didn't talk about it at all and just swept it under the rug in my opinion.

You've just made me realize that's incredibly likely. I mean, Sumin completely shut down for a month or so after her parent's death. It wouldn't be a surprise if she avoided confrontation and just began to live under a facade of coldness. It's a defensive mechanism for her it seems.

probably not, after chapter 14, i think sumin can be really open to talk with seju. At least, it's not totally impossible if seju wants to explain.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 2:28PM

clairesun

Sumin is hard to approach, I think the fact that Sumin's life was dominated by Seju's presence is not because Seju is controlling or anything but because Sumin doesn't see the point of letting anyone else in on her life. You see this in future chapters, e.g. the most recent one.

The fact that Seju knows details about Sumin's life is not because she's controlling or stalkerish but rather because Sumin tells her. For example in chapter 14 or 15, she tells Seju that she broke up with someone that she'd thought was 'the one'. From my understanding, I think Sumin is the one that keeps on coming back to Seju and not the other way around.

Case in point, the 'why are you here?' comment in chapter 14? 15? shows Sumin's surprise at the fact that Seju is still in her life despite everything. She wonders why she keeps on coming back despite many attempts to not do so. Also I think it's likely that they have the keys to each other's appartment. For example chapter 11. It's just convenient for hook-up purposes I'm assuming, I didn't see it as creepy or anything at all

Also as I've mentioned in the post above yours, the point about Seju maintaining the status-quo in her relationship with Sumin is probably because Sumin doesn't let her in. She keeps Seju at arm's length. She won't let her in emotionally as seen when she denied having interest in Sungji. She also refuses to cut Seju completely out of her life as seen by how this status-quo has remained for about 10 years.

I don't blame Seju for not wanting to cut Sumin out of her life. But you're probably right in saying that their relationship is not entirely healthy at this point because they're both using each other as emotional clutches and there's a lot of guilt and anger that's unresolved.

Maybe Sungji will act as a catalyst for Seju/Sumin to overcome this aspect of their relationship. Perhaps Sungji might be the last straw that Seju/Sumin out of the vicious circle that they're in.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 1:42PM

clairesun

probably not, after chapter 14, i think sumin can be really open to talk with seju. At least, it not totally impossible if seju wants to explain.

I think Sumin separates/compartmentalises what she does and doesn't tell Seju. The really important things such as how she's feeling she won't say. E.g. her budding feelings for Sungji. There was a lot of denial as you can see in chapters 3/4.

What she tells Seju can be considered 'small-talk'. Gossipy kinda thing, like the details of her life and what's happened. But she won't let Seju in any further than that.

It's totally possible for Seju to want to explain of course but Sumin might just not want to listen. Or even if she listens, she doesn't forgive? Doesn't accept? In any case she might refuse to move on and come to a proper resolution after Seju tells her the circumstances behind chapter 11.

The reason that I doubt this has happened is because it seems kinda unlikely that they're stuck in this mess when they've had an open, honest conversation where they discuss what's at stake and how to move forward.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 1:46PM

I'd have to agree with clairesun. From the way I saw it, Seju treated Sumin like she just another one of her possessions. In the past, it always seemed like Sumin was a lot more lovestruck than Seju (e.g. when Sumin blushes and asks "Are you nervous?" while they have sex, Seju simply replies with something like "A little bit"). While I don't think people who cheat once deserve the death penalty, the time at which Seju cheated is a very important factor to consider. At that moment, Seju was all Sumin had left in this world; her parents were gone, she was an only child, and Seju was her only real connection left. Sumin was completely ready to apologize to Seju for her immaturity, and she even went to go buy some flowers for her. But right as she stepped into the apartment, the first thing she saw was the only person that mattered in her life with someone else. Could you imagine how devastated she was? It was only after this incident that Sumin started going out with several different people, trying to find a replacement for Seju. And that's where Sungji comes in huehuehue #teamcinnamonroll

also omg real discussion I'm crying tears of joy

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 2:00PM

halmoni

Yes you're right in saying that the timing of Seju's infidelity adds a lot more weight to her actions and completely shattered Sumin. Like we've seen, in chapter 17, it was perhaps even a traumatic memory for her. I am not going to deny the gravity of what she did.

That being said, I think Sumin did some things that made Seju feel as though she was throwing their relationship in the trash. For example the incident with the ring is one thing but the fact that Sumin threw away all their plans to study abroad was more important. Someone else said this but if Seju was under the assumption that she and Sumin had broken up, that wouldn't have been entirely unlikely.

I think the timing was really bad. Seju made a mistake what would've perhaps registered as a 5 on the fuckup-o-metre but was magnified to a 10 under those circumstances that you've mentioned.

That being said, I also think it's important to consider the events before and after the incident. We know from chapter 10 that during that 1 month, Seju has done nothing but try to pull Sumin out of her funk and tell her to get her life back on track. Even with the ring incident, she swallowed her anger after seeing that Sumin was visibly upset and told her that she would discuss it at another time because Sumin was not in the right mindset.

What she did afterwards when she said 'You don't blame me for your parent's death do you?' really broke my heart. To see Seju's enormous guilt over her indirect involvement with Sumin's parents death was heartbreaking. I think that put an enormous strain on their relationship which, when compounded with the cheating, almost rendered their relationship irreparable.

I don't think Seju treated Sumin as a posession, the way I see it, they were both equally invested in the relationship at some point. Seju even made a cheesy/romantic comment in chapter 2. Still, I think it's hard to say who's more invested based only on things like that. For all we know, the differences could be chalked up to their personality. Sumin could just simply be bashful because she's only close to her parents and I believe she's an only child.

Seju on the other hand is likely to be a social butterfly (kinda like Seol-a) because she has many older siblings and is the heiress of a conglomerate, hence she might be used to social outings and is less shy/embarrassed. As I've said, this wouldn't matter too much and it's hard to tell who's more invested based on that alone.

From my viewpoint, I think Seju just wants to have Sumin in her life, even if it's in the debased version that it currently is. For example saying things like 'I just wanted to see you as much as possible before I left' and smiling so brightly when Sungji said that Sumin's perfume matches her.

HELL, SHE EVEN BUILT A SQUASH COURT JUST BECAUSE SUMIN LIKES SQUASH! She takes Sumin out for dinner and respects Sumin's personal space as evident by how she leaves Sumin alone in the anniversary of her parents' death. Granted it may not be a good decision but it may be that Seju believes that Sumin doesn't want her there because Sumin still blames Seju for her parents' death

Either way, Seju/Sumin is full of angst whilst Sungji/Sumin will be filled with fluff. I'm sure even if Sungji/Sumin has angst, it won't even compare to the angst that is Seju/Sumin. Maybe I'm just a sucker for angst.

With all these black bars it kinda reminds FF thread before spoiler thread. Maybe (because next chapters won't be uploaded here) rename this thread also as "spoiler thread"?

Alextasha

No point in that since we'll catch up soon. I'd rather not have fragmented threads. I'll edit them once the chapter is released.

In the meantime, here is a paste of the bookmarklet that I made for the FF thread back in the day, for whoever's interested.

 
 

Random pro-tip

This is a bookmarklet to unhide all spoilers on the page.

 
Create a new bookmark on your browser's bookmark toolbar, and put this as the URL of the bookmark:

 

javascript:(function(){$('.spoilers').removeClass('spoilers').css('background','lightgray');})();

This removes the black highlighting and replaces it with light gray highlighting.

 

javascript:(function(){$('.spoilers').removeClass('spoilers');})();

This only removes the black highlighting. (You won't be able to tell what used to be marked as spoilers.)

 
Now, you essentially have a 'button' on the bookmark toolbar
such that when you click on it, it will unhide the spoilers on the current page.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 2:42PM

Kyra's posts have been all the awesome points and are making me want a job more and more.

Still sore about all the S names though.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 2:38PM

ChocolateCakeLover

yes, do it. get a job to read abou gay girls doing gay things. and yea, i talked to someone on tumblr abou the S names. might be something to do with the title, a fondness for sibilance perhaps?

da s stands fer seks

 
 
... OK, I'm outta here.

Gay girls doing gay fuels the economy, it is know.

I assumed the S thing was an accident. Having same first lettered name in Latin language works is somewhat of a taboo because when reading it, people are likely to get them mixed up because are brains are stupid and reads in weird ways. I assumed Korean script would be more like Japanese where characters are more unique, so they don't have to care about that.

I also assume that I assumed wrong though. Also assume I remember wrong too.

ChocolateCakeLover:

I assumed Korean script would be more like Japanese where characters are more unique, so they don't have to care about that.

I also assume that I assumed wrong though. Also assume I remember wrong too.

Indeed, unlike Japanese which has a kana (alphabet character) for each consonant-vowel combination,
Korean has separate "letters" for consonants and vowels, much like the Latin alphabet.

s = ㅅ

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 3:12PM

Before we go off-topic on names, I'm sure your questions can easily be answer a la google. As an Asian myself, I've never heard about avoiding using the first letter of names. In fact for families, a lot of the time you use names that start the same way or sound similar. E.g. Seol-a's brothers in FF I think?

Korean alphabets don't have 'characters' like Chinese and Japanese. Instead, vowels and consonants have their own symbol/character if you can call it that. And they are compounded. A simple google search would tell you this so this thread won't go off-topic.

Maybe the S-names in WDFS serves to link characters now that i think about it.

Korean alphabets don't have 'characters' like Chinese and Japanese. Instead, vowels and consonants have their own symbol/character if you can call it that. And they are compounded. A simple google search would tell you this so this thread won't go off-topic.

They do use some chinese characters if I'm not wrong, a lot less than in japanese though. If I remember well, they are only used for historical/old word.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 3:54PM

I hope black hair girl ends up with blonde hair girl cause pink hair girl cheated on black hair girl

last edited at Jul 7, 2015 11:58PM

Where somebody see devotion I see an inequality in this relationship.

I agree with kyra. I don't think the inequality needs to be checked in this relationship.
Seju is spoiled by her father. She comes from a rich family; her social status is higher than Sumin's. Apparently all these will make her seem domineering on the outside. But when it comes to Sumin, Seju almost always allows her to have her way. Their first time having sex was initiated by Sumin, after so many years since their high school dating. Seju allowed Sumin to throw tantrums and took the effort to comfort Sumin when her parents died.

From what I see, Sumin is always allowed her own personal space if she needs it. I don't see how Seju can be controlling with Sumin being so cold towards her, even threatening Seju to beware of consequences if she continued to stay around in her office when she told her to get lost. Sumin even has the freedom to have girlfriends. Unless Seju is being controlling by being not so controlling.

And I don't think Sumin is as pathetically weak as many think. She has the ability to feed herself without Seju. She seduces women. Seju's effort to get closer to Sumin is always rejected, unless it is sex or gifts.
Sumin has certain power over certain things. She could have just shut out Seju completely after Seju slept with that man and what else could Seju do? But Sumin didn't.

Sumin just doesn't want to let go of Seju because she is emotionally dependent on her and when Sungji comes along, she has someone new to depend on and realizes it is time kick Seju out after Seju wasted so many years on her. If this is how the story is going, I really can't like Sumin at all. It is as if Sumin is the only one suffering from this kind of relationship and just because Seju always smiles things off, no one thinks she could be hurting all this time too. As if that Seju who drank heavily because Sumin blamed her for her parents' death and ignored her for over a month was totally gone.

last edited at Jul 7, 2015 11:59PM

As if that Seju who drank heavily because Sumin blamed her for her parents' death and ignored her for over a month was totally gone.

It was never directly stated that Sumin blamed Seju for her parents' deaths. In fact, like I mentioned before, she was ready to apologize to Seju the very next day for her behavior. I don't see anything wrong with isolating yourself after your whole family passes away. It's obvious that her parents' deaths still affect Sumin to this day. She religiously visits their graves every year, even though it's been 10 years already. I honestly thought it was rude and insensitive of Seju to tell Sumin "Hey get over it already, it's been a month", regardless of whether she was trying to cheer Sumin up or not. That's not something you would say to someone you care about.

kyra
idk, I thought the parts where Seju says cheesy stuff like "I just want to see you as much as I can blah blah" weren't said with romantic intentions. The feeling that I got was that it was more of a mocking reminder to Sumin that Seju still controls her life. Or something like that. And that's why Sumin got so pissed off at her.

last edited at Jul 7, 2015 11:59PM

If it really goes Korean drama style, it will end up SuminXSungji and Seju supporting perfect self-sacrifice character forever alone x)

Sungji being the natural spontaneous main girl, Sumin the jerky misunderstood with a big heart main guy

Edit : When I think about it, it also fit the typical shoujo manga

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 6:45PM

It was never directly stated that Sumin blamed Seju for her parents' deaths. In fact, like I mentioned before, she was ready to apologize to Seju the very next day for her behavior. I don't see anything wrong with isolating yourself after your whole family passes away. It's obvious that her parents' deaths still affect Sumin to this day. She religiously visits their graves every year, even though it's been 10 years already. I honestly thought it was rude and insensitive of Seju to tell Sumin "Hey get over it already, it's been a month", regardless of whether she was trying to cheer Sumin up or not. That's not something you would say to someone you care about.

As much as I like Seju's character, I won't say she is perfect. I do agree that Seju was being insensitive when she wanted to force Sumin out of her shell when her parents' death happened only over a month ago. But that alone doesn't obliterate Seju's care for Sumin. She brought a scarf for Sumin when she picked her up to drive her to school. She makes sure Sumin has her meals. She did a lot of things for Sumin which shows her way of love, though they may not be the best ways to show love.

And if you take into consideration how the all-dependent Sumin suddenly became cold and shrugs off Seju's concern during the period after her parents' death, I can't blame Seju for exploding out her frustrations. Look at how Sumin pushed Seju's hand away when she tried to hug her. And based on the fact that Sumin looked like she hit some kind of realization after Seju questioned her if she blamed her for her parents' death, I do believe Sumin did push some blame on Seju.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 12:00AM

I hope black hair girl ends up with blonde hair girl cause pink hair girl cheated on black hair girl

LOLOL when you can't remember their names XD haha I was confused at first too, also since all their names start with S

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 12:00AM