Sumin's workplace is a place where Sumin works. Not a place where Sumin talks to Nammi. Of course, if Sumin wants, she can.

put aside our different standpoints, u still have some logic fallacy in ur argument.

A bathroom is a place where I do my bathroom business. Not a place where I eat my dinner. Of course, if I want, I can.

Sumin's workplace is not the place for Sumin to build up her relationship with Nammi. But if Sumin wants to use her working time to talk to Nammi, she can. If she doesn't want, she can invite Nammi to her house, go to a bar, or whatever. Hope this clarifies.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:53AM

Satsuki

dawny's argument are much sounder than mine and I agree with whatever they have to sat though.

Thank you, Satsuki. But to say that you agree with whatever I have to say... you have too much confidence in me. I am honored.
And though I have no wish to discuss with others whether Seju cheated or not, I want to point out that I share your view on Seju's one night-stand. Yes, you are not the only one, I am with you. If it is true that Seju never slept with anyone else for the past 10 years, then this only makes me question even more on why the hell she intentionally cheated that night.

halmoni

Seju dislikes Nami, but she didn’t force Sumin to break off their friendship. Seju acknowledged Nami as Sumin’s friend.

Again, what evidence do you have for this? We don't know anything about the relationship between Seju and Namisa yet. Regardless of whether Seju dislikes Namisa or not, this involves Sumin anyways because Namisa is Sumin's friend.

I just realized 'Nami' should be spelled as 'Nammi'. A) Seju and Sumin's conversation in Chapter 13, where Seju said something like "Isn't Nammi your only friend?". B) Sumin knows very well that Seju prohibits Nammi from entering her company. C) Sumin is still keeping contact with Nammi. These 3 points imply what I've said.

Once again, I am going to say that Seju is not stupid. If the reason why she forbids Nammi to enter her company is to force Sumin to leave Nammi, then Seju must be stupid. Sumin knows about this prohibition. To think that Sumin will listen to her command like a kid or to not expect Nammi to tell Sumin about her evil plans, this makes Seju look even more stupid. So the only reason I can think of as to why Seju did that is because Seju doesn't have a good impression of Nammi. I don't know how Seju can force Sumin to stop seeing Nammi.

"Isn't Nammi your only friend?" is an acknowledgment. If you don't think this is true, then let's see things another way. Assuming that Seju did do something to sabotage their friendship, she failed, so no matter what, the truth is Seju has no choice but to acknowledge their friendship. If you don't agree with me, it is fine.

It doesn't matter what Seju's reason was, the fact remains that Namisa is someone who's connected to Sumin, and she's not allowed into Sumin's workplace (where she probably spends most of her time).

Sumin's workplace is a place where Sumin works. Not a place where Sumin talks to Nammi. Of course, if Sumin wants, she can.

We've seen Sumin's extreme reactions to Seju's "teasing" multiple times. Seju knows exactly how Sumin is going to react, assuming this "teasing" is something that's happened multiple times during the last 10 years. She's pushing Sumin's buttons, and she knows it. When "teasing" reaches the point where the person you're "having fun" with starts threatening you, it's not just fun and games anymore.

Seju is probably trying to liven up their too-serious conversations. If Seju just let things be serious all the time, their relationship would probably stay stagnant. This is my guess. Anyway, Seju didn't go overboard. She stopped as soon as Sumin showed displeasure.

As for your other questions, my response would again be a repetition of my previous statements. Only perhaps I have to elaborate, but then I don't think it is necessary. As I have said, we are free to hold our own beliefs. I don't want to preach.

And no one here said it was right for Sumin to hurt Seju during sex. Sumin acts like a grumpy asshole sometimes, and I understand where she's coming from, but this doesn't mean it's right for her to hurt others.

Seeing that you are so ready to call Seju hoe and a bitch, I thought your response would be 'Seju probably enjoyed it'. Good to know that your prejudice against her isn't as serious as I thought.

last edited at Jul 7, 2015 12:55PM

"Sumin is embraces very well to Seju". I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here.
emotionally dependent on Seju =/= Sumin's cold attitude

Sorry, I meant to say Sumin accepts and is pleased with Seju’s efforts to get closer to her (I call them efforts, you may call them advances).
You agree that Sumin is emotionally dependent on Seju and if you also agree that Sumin is giving Seju the cold shoulder most of the time, I don’t understand why you are questioning my view.

If you've read a word of my arguments, you'd know that I've been arguing this whole time that Sumin is indeed emotionally dependent on Seju, but not necessarily in a positive manner, due to the trauma that she experienced. "Sumin's own doing subconsciously = It takes two hands to clap". I don't believe that's what the idiom "It takes two hands to clap/It takes two to tango" means. Blaming all of this on Sumin and saying that Seju had no role in it at all, is completely ridiculous. Go back and read my previous arguments please. Also, saying that Sumin is "willing subconsciously" is just your speculation. There's no definite proof in the manhwa to back up your argument.

Yes, ”Sumin’s own doing” is an assumption to rebut your assumption that there is no doubt Seju is controlling and forcing Sumin to go back to her. For Sumin to be going back to Seju time and again, it must mean that Seju has some kind of influence over Sumin. This influence is not manipulation. Seju has influence over Sumin, Sumin is willing to go back to Seju (Sumin’s own doing), Seju is happy to accept that. It takes two hands to clap because Sumin made the first move to return to Seju and Seju is there waiting, acknowledging the influence she had over Sumin and goes along with it because she is more than happy to have her back. I didn’t say it is all Sumin’s own doing. Sorry, I didn’t know I had made things so hard for you to comprehend.

By “emotionally dependent”, I mean that whenever Sumin feels the need to find somebody to rely on, she will go to Seju. This is something that I think Sumin is doing out of her own will, but obviously you don’t think so. So Sumin hates it but is forced to go back to Seju to seek comfort from a person she dislikes and Seju planned all this? Sumin’s social activities are not restricted yet she doesn’t have anyone to go to -- is this really all Seju’s plan or does Sumin bear some responsibility in creating this situation? Unless it is proven that Seju has the power to make Sumin’s lovers and friends all leave her, I find this “Seju forcing an unwilling Sumin back to her” viewpoint very unsound. Sumin drawing comfort from other ex-lovers or even strangers is better than drawing comfort from someone she hates and refused to go to.
Anyway, as you’ve said, this is my assumption. But you’ve also made your own assumptions.

Also, your rebuttal for the reason why Seju won't allow Namisa into the building wasn't crystal clear. Namisa is Sumin's friend; why did Seju forbid Namisa from ever entering her company's office? The reason was never specified in the manhwa either, but I find it suspicious as hell.

Seju forbidding Nami to enter the company has nothing to do with Seju being a control maniac. You are going to make me repeat what I have said too, should I also request that you go back and read my arguments properly?
If this ever has anything to do with control, it is only Seju controlling Nami’s access inside her company. Seju dislikes Nami, but she didn’t force Sumin to break off their friendship. Seju acknowledged Nami as Sumin’s friend. I am not sure what you want me to explain. If you are asking me why Seju doesn’t like Nami, I don’t know. But I am sure you think it is something related to evil plans again. I don’t understand what else Seju could have planned when the only thing she can do is to stop Nami from going to her company, and then apparently this plan failed in chapter 16 because of Sumin’s arrangement. Sumin is capable of making her own decisions. You are overestimating Seju’s power.

Let’s just agree to disagree. No point going in circles. You already think that Seju is up to no good so I understand why one small weird move or facial expression from Seju will make you want to question her intentions and magnify them. Seju can’t even tease or smirk at Sumin or let out her frustrations anymore because it becomes rude and demeaning. Seju needs to be so careful around Sumin. Yet when Sumin hurt Seju during sex, I guess it is "serves her right".

last edited at Jul 6, 2015 2:25AM

having no choice and doing it subconsciously still have big difference. And sumin definitely didn't do anything subconsciously even the last scene in chapter 14. But u are right each kind of relationship takes two hands to clap. Only I think seju is the one who can change this situation if she wants, not sumin (she is, yeah, as we all agree, an emotionally dependent wreck, lol)

BTW, I've listed a lot of things I count as a controlling dead in the previous posts. It's not an assumption that seju is more or less controlling.

All those deeds that you've mentioned, I have already given my views why I think they are not valid. It is fine if you don't feel that way. I am not here to change your opinion or argue endlessly. I am here to add my opinion for forum friends to convince me otherwise with valid arguments and for others to read and make their own judgement.

It's not because there exists something forceful that i call it control, it's just I feel seju somehow abuses her influence on sumin and thus trapped her(may or may not on purpose) in this weakness, because she loves sumin, wants to take care of her and keep her in life, unfortunately that kind of way won't save sumin from her trauma.

This is something that I call a valid point and I accept your argument. However, Seju abuses her influence is just an assumption. Guess we will just wait for more chapters to find out.

last edited at Jul 5, 2015 6:22AM

Sumin's own doing subconsciously =/= It takes two hands to clap
emotionally dependent on Seju =/= Sumin's cold attitude

Sorry for sounding like an asshole, but your argument just doesn't add up. Who was the one that caused Sumin to become such an emotionally dependent wreck?

Sorry for sounding like an asshole. But are you saying that Sumin is embraces very well to Seju? Or are you saying Sumin is not emotionally dependent on Seju? Both points are very valid in my opinion. Unless you want to refute them.

Sumin's own doing subconsciously = It takes two hands to clap
because Sumin is willing subconsciously. If you do understand what I am trying to say. I don't see how this doesn't add up.

How can she be that weak and be controlled by Seju when she knows how to control other people, at least to a certain level? She is a team leader, leading a group of men who sort of fear her. When did Sumin become a damsel in distress?

If she's so emotionally strong, please explain to me why she won't end her unhealthy relationship with Seju, when she clearly dislikes her.

She is emotionally dependent on Seju, that does not necessarily mean that a domineering Seju is controlling her. Even if Sumin is controlled by Seju, it is could probably be Sumin's own doing subconsciously. Seju can never forcefully control Sumin based on the Sumin's cold attitude. Sumin would probably just push Seju away further. It takes two hands to clap.

But now, it seems that some think it is Seju's fault that Sumin keeps going back to her. Like Seju has to bear all consequences for Sumin's actions.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:40AM

I could throw back a similar question to you. If Seju wants to control Sumin, why is she constantly pushing Sumin to be with Sungji?

Bang, that's exactly another kind of control, if I know someone arranged this for me, I would feel really offended, even whom I love was in your plan, are u kidding me?

I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying this has nothing to do with Seju controlling Sumin. I don't see how Sumin would agree to this arrangement if Sumin has no interest in Sungji at all. Unless that red-haired girl and that brown-haired girl and all Sumin's ex-girlfriends are arrangements made by Seju. As Satsuki has said, Sumin is not an innocent girl too. Don't forget she seduced red-haired and tried to seduce Sungji. How can she be that weak and be controlled by Seju when she knows how to control other people, at least to a certain level? She is a team leader, leading a group of men who sort of fear her. When did Sumin become a damsel in distress?

From what I see, if Sumin doesn't want to be controlled, Seju has no way to it.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:36AM

Then why is Seju constantly pushing Sumin to be with Sungji (or anyone else for that matter)? What's her motive? Why did she smirk when Sumin admitted that Sungji is her type? I find it hard to believe that Seju is completely innocent.

I could throw back a similar question to you. If Seju wants to control Sumin, why is she constantly pushing Sumin to be with Sungji? Because she doesn't like to be sugar daddy anymore? I am not clever, but this move is stupid to me if Seju wants to continue controlling Sumin. This issue is a mystery by itself. The question why Seju wants Sungji to take care of Sumin has nothing to do with Seju controlling Sumin or not.

And I never intended to say Seju is innocent. She is probably making some plans that has nothing to do with Seju being a monster.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 3:31AM

As I mentioned before the reason why sumin can never leave seju is because her relationship with seju totally shut her off from the outside world (chapter 16, blue's description), she might never have a chance or need to be independent and after the accident, constantly got hurt due to this kind of emotional disability. That's another reason I feel pathetic for sumin, she has no help to seek but the very cause of her own sufferings, even she wants to move on, as long as she doesn't meet the right person who will love her genuinely and be patient enough to support her, she will still end with "going back to seju".

This argument doesn't make sense. Sumin has a phone and does have the freedom contact Nami (blue). Sumin also has freedom to have girlfriends and other one-night stands. How is that isolating Sumin from the outside world? Nami was talking about the past when Sumin was too dependent on Seju. But now, no.
Sumin couldn't find someone who is genuinely in love with her, so she goes back to Seju. This doesn't necessarily mean Seju has to take the blame that she is controlling Sumin. It could mean Sumin still finds Seju as her place of refuge. I could even say that Sumin is too hesitant to make a decision to break off and is pulling Seju in with her because Seju loves Sumin enough not to let her go if Sumin is still struggling.

And I still strongly feel seju are trying to control, There are a lot of signs (chapter 4, it's seju who pry the private life of sumin, The most convincing one: chapter 14, she slyly tricked sungji to get the information she wants which in chapter 13 sumin don't want her to know, :( I would be really upset if someone doing so behind my back whoever she/he is).

Seju is just trying to find out some information. She is probably not the type who likes to keep questions unanswered. I don't see anything fatal in that. It is not like Seju is trying to find out some bank account number to steal money. And Seju is not stupid. Forbidding Nami to enter the company doesn't mean forbidding Sumin to keep in contact with Nami. Seju wants to confirm if Sumin likes Sungji or not... isn't that a sign that Seju likes Sumin? Why does it all have to be related to controlling?

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 3:29AM

It was never directly stated that Sumin blamed Seju for her parents' deaths. In fact, like I mentioned before, she was ready to apologize to Seju the very next day for her behavior. I don't see anything wrong with isolating yourself after your whole family passes away. It's obvious that her parents' deaths still affect Sumin to this day. She religiously visits their graves every year, even though it's been 10 years already. I honestly thought it was rude and insensitive of Seju to tell Sumin "Hey get over it already, it's been a month", regardless of whether she was trying to cheer Sumin up or not. That's not something you would say to someone you care about.

As much as I like Seju's character, I won't say she is perfect. I do agree that Seju was being insensitive when she wanted to force Sumin out of her shell when her parents' death happened only over a month ago. But that alone doesn't obliterate Seju's care for Sumin. She brought a scarf for Sumin when she picked her up to drive her to school. She makes sure Sumin has her meals. She did a lot of things for Sumin which shows her way of love, though they may not be the best ways to show love.

And if you take into consideration how the all-dependent Sumin suddenly became cold and shrugs off Seju's concern during the period after her parents' death, I can't blame Seju for exploding out her frustrations. Look at how Sumin pushed Seju's hand away when she tried to hug her. And based on the fact that Sumin looked like she hit some kind of realization after Seju questioned her if she blamed her for her parents' death, I do believe Sumin did push some blame on Seju.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 12:00AM

Where somebody see devotion I see an inequality in this relationship.

I agree with kyra. I don't think the inequality needs to be checked in this relationship.
Seju is spoiled by her father. She comes from a rich family; her social status is higher than Sumin's. Apparently all these will make her seem domineering on the outside. But when it comes to Sumin, Seju almost always allows her to have her way. Their first time having sex was initiated by Sumin, after so many years since their high school dating. Seju allowed Sumin to throw tantrums and took the effort to comfort Sumin when her parents died.

From what I see, Sumin is always allowed her own personal space if she needs it. I don't see how Seju can be controlling with Sumin being so cold towards her, even threatening Seju to beware of consequences if she continued to stay around in her office when she told her to get lost. Sumin even has the freedom to have girlfriends. Unless Seju is being controlling by being not so controlling.

And I don't think Sumin is as pathetically weak as many think. She has the ability to feed herself without Seju. She seduces women. Seju's effort to get closer to Sumin is always rejected, unless it is sex or gifts.
Sumin has certain power over certain things. She could have just shut out Seju completely after Seju slept with that man and what else could Seju do? But Sumin didn't.

Sumin just doesn't want to let go of Seju because she is emotionally dependent on her and when Sungji comes along, she has someone new to depend on and realizes it is time kick Seju out after Seju wasted so many years on her. If this is how the story is going, I really can't like Sumin at all. It is as if Sumin is the only one suffering from this kind of relationship and just because Seju always smiles things off, no one thinks she could be hurting all this time too. As if that Seju who drank heavily because Sumin blamed her for her parents' death and ignored her for over a month was totally gone.

last edited at Jul 7, 2015 11:59PM

Seju is not a bad character. She may be scheming (I can't blame her for that, being in that environment she is in), but she is pretty devoted to Sumin. Author already said she is not somebody who sleeps around like Sumin. That night was a result of a judgmental mistake. Unfortunately, she is being condemned by many because of one mistake made under the influence of alcohol, not to mention the reason why she drank so heavily was all because of Sumin. And 10 years of devotion is nothing compared to that one mistake.

If Sumin is going to leave her for Sungji, it is all better for Seju. She might as well go find somebody who knows why there is a need to treasure her.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 6:41AM

Thanks for the explanation bingojay.

Btw, when I saw the scene where pink-haired girl was in bed with a man, I just assumed she cheated on brunette. I didn't know she didn't like men at all. That's very curious. If she were drugged, she would've been mad, but she looked fine the next day.

Readers will have to draw their own conclusions when they read Chapters 10 & 11 because nothing definite was said. Some still think Pink is a cheater. Others, who picked up certain unusual signs throughout the 2 chapters' flashbacks, think otherwise. The latter could be reading too much into those signs, if people want to argue.
I am probably one of those who thinks too much.

last edited at Jun 20, 2015 10:20PM

Even if she was drunk and sad, it's still cheating...

There was a massive discussion in the Chinese forum on this. There are different views. It seems that the author purposely skipped that part. Nobody knows what really happened and given that situation most of us would think she cheated with a man in a drunken state. But Pink doesn't even like men, it is very intriguing that she would cheat with a man. Looking at how the story is unfolding, I am guessing there is more to this. Of course, it is purely my conjecture.

**** SPOILER AHEAD ****

Pink head cheated, with a man. Brunette found out. Somehow they broke up, and Brunette went through a few relationships but none of them work out.

I seriously don't think Pink cheated. It was an accident or something else... Everything seems like a mystery. That is what makes this series so interesting.

last edited at Jun 19, 2015 6:51AM

But how can we read? Someone have the manga?

Sorry for the late reply. Haven't been on here these few days to check out the forum. Anyway, Ieeheh has given the link to the Chinese translations, so you can go have a look.

Have read the 11 chapters. WDTFS is my favourite series at the moment. Hope it get translated in English.

What yuri? There's a het scene and graphically portrayed even while no yuri graphically portrayed scene. I'm looking for full yuri and this one isn't.

It is very yuri. The het scene won't make any difference.

I think Danai is the one with the longer hair. One way to read the meaning of Danai in Mandarin is "big boobs", which I don't think a T will choose as a nickname. Danai would suit the femme better. Magan gives a me feeling of something tall and thin.