New member here. Just want to say the record that I'm a huge fan of all kinds of yuri, but yuri with Lolicon and Age gap are by far the best kind of yuri in my mind. There is no other love purer and more beautiful that one between an innocent loli and a grownup woman, especially if wincest is involved. And I bet the rest of Dynasty agrees.

Here are my favorites, by the way:

http://dynasty-scans.com/series/oshikko_sensei
http://dynasty-scans.com/series/oshikko_sensei_zero
http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/flower_picking
http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/in_the_rain_and_cold
http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/master_and_me
http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/oneeloli_manga_123

What are your thoughts on loli age gap? What can we do more to promote it?

I don't know about pure/beautiful, it depends on how it's written?
In the Oshikko sensei ones it seems more like a fetish and kinda hardcore molestation so uhh to each their own I guess, because I can't say it is something I've looked up and finished with a feeling of... warmth and sweetness.

I really do like the ones by Itou Hachi though, there's def something pure and beautiful about their age gap works, like Chiyo-chan's Marriage and The Forest Where the Goddess Lives (basically all their age gap works. It's not tagged as loli but it involves younger girls so I kinda see it as so).

I think that large age gaps involving children leaves a feeling of uncertainty for me, because well, it feels wrong, but depending on how it's written, if the focus is more on the feelings of love, there's certainly something very heartwarming about it, the innocence and sincerity of a kid's feelings I suppose, and the older girl trying to protect and care for them. On that point, Kurogane Ken's Hoshikawa Ginza District 4 is very good too (much feels, much drama), the societal restrictions and feelings of taboo is def more present there.
Flower Picking is one that I was meh about tho, cus it's kinda how a little girl got taken advantage of more than anything.
Like, there are just some works that leave you with "aww" and some that are pretty much just... pedophilia.
If it's yuri I'll probably still read it tho. In fiction, some things are kinda more acceptable? Maybe? Idk. I still give it some thought but I don't take it as seriously

last edited at May 18, 2016 8:12PM

I do like the age gap tag, mostly when is Teacher x Student. But I've enjoyed some of those in the list... Master and Me is reeeeallly cute, and then there's december's heartbeat and Hoshikawa Ginza District 4 -Hnnnngg!
Maybe because in most cases, yuri is "forbidden love" like a secret and that makes me excited... and if you add an even more spicy kind of forbidden love is a thrill to read.

I agree that oshikko sensei is just for fetish (a very specific kind) but I've read it

I can't stand loli age gap, it's basically taking advantage of a child for your entertainment. I like age gap, but the lower end needs to be at minimum mid-teens.

Oneeloli and Master and Me is kind of an interesting one, because it's not actually sexual, per se.

Hoshikawa Ginza District 4 escapes because the underaged sex part is pretty much entirely off screen and done for dramatic purposes, otherwise up to that point they stick to kisses. It also has a less fetish-y tone than stuff like Flower Picking, which is pretty unambiguously rape (plus the "she learns to like it at the end" trope).

Pure Water Adolescence or the student-teacher couple in Hanjuku Joshi, or if we're really gonna go nuts Off Time (although that one I mostly like for the Adult life angle) are more my speed.

I already don't like loli art, but loli age gap is the last thing I'd promote. It's something that Japan is behind the times on banning. If there are explicit depictions of sex in them, it would count as child pornography by US law. If we tagged it as kiddie porn here, people would have a completely different inclination to read it here.

last edited at May 18, 2016 8:34PM

jesus christ what is this thread

I'd have to agree with Serenata. While I adore the cuteness overload super happy fluffy type stories as well, I really do enjoy the "spice" of such dramatic elements. In a fictional setting, being attracted to someone you probably shouldn't be, can indeed be a very exciting element of the story/setting I think.

To me, thing about fictional works, be they romantic, erotic, or whatever, is that they are just that; fiction. They allow the reader to experience and take part in situations they can't / shouldn't / or simply don't want to experience in real life.

Personally, I feel the same way about stories like Oshikko Sensei, as I do about ultra violent stories. What is happening may often be terrible and deplorable, but to many readers, that is exciting, and they don't have to feel bad about enjoying it, because it isn't real.

I personally don't particularly enjoy the stories with younger children, like Oshikko Sensei, but I do not see any harm in them either.

TL;DR: As far as fiction goes, IMO pretty much anything goes.

Edit:
@dofudofu
The idea of criminalizing any fictional depictions of something, is essentially criminalizing certain thoughts. Laws concerning child pornography are, of course, extremely important, but because it is such a delicate subject, over-regulation is a very real issue.

last edited at May 18, 2016 8:55PM

I like unconventional stories on a whole, i don't support acts of pedophilia on the real world in any shape or form but as long as it's fiction i can get engrossed in a good story
...With that being said though, i have troubles thinking about a loli story that i liked, there's at least two hets i can think of but as far as yuri goes i think only Hoshikawa Ginza District4 and even then it's not that great IMO
tl;dr;bnrl, i'll gladly read a loli age gap work if it's good

last edited at May 18, 2016 9:02PM

dofudofu posted:

If there are explicit depictions of sex in them, it would count as child pornography by US law

Which is stupid. Actual child pornography is bad because it requires real children in the first place. Drawing is just that. A drawing that didn't do any harm to anyone. So forbidding it is just stupid.

jfc what the fuck am i even fucking reading

A discussion by people with a variety of points of view, who may not agree but are being mostly civil about it up to this point?

I mean that's just a guess.

And I bet the rest of Dynasty agrees.

What are your thoughts on loli age gap? What can we do more to promote it?

Not really our job. It's on the reader, that's as promoting as we do.

I mean we've got some stuff, but we're not really your One Stop Eight Year Old Porn Shop or anything.

Honestly this whole discussion is a lot more normal than I was expecting.

Honestly this whole discussion is a lot more normal than I was expecting.

I know right? I was expecting my post to be flamed to ashes...

I guess more serious matters, such as shipping wars, are calling. x)

Nezchan posted:

What are your thoughts on loli age gap? What can we do more to promote it?

Not really our job. It's on the reader, that's as promoting as we do.

I mean we've got some stuff, but we're not really your One Stop Eight Year Old Porn Shop or anything.

I jumped that part... "What can we do to promote it?" What? I won't do anything to promote it! I like it but I'm not a fanatic and there's no point of going around telling people to watch lolis, age gap or the combination of both.
Maybe you just want more doujins/manga to be translated, you should find similar works and ask some fansubs to work in them good luck with that tho or make your own fansub/offer yourself to work in a fansub.

last edited at May 18, 2016 9:42PM

What are your thoughts on loli age gap?
-I love it.

What can we do more to promote it?
-But I don't think we really need to talk about it that much.

Eh in my opinion as long as it's not hurting anyone, just let other people enjoy what they want. It's fiction and as long as it just stays fantasy and doesn't start to involve REAL minors then it's all good.

I personally don't like loli/major age gap, because I don't find the mental age of children attractive. And if they are depicted as "smarter and more mature for their age", then I think that kinda ruins the whole point of the genre anyway. Might as well read something else about an actual adult....(maybe that falls under the older than she looks)?

To be honest, I think most loli artists I've seen aren't very good at drawing kids in the first place, making them look like hydrocephalic pre-teens. So it gets a little on the weird side.

[...] making them look like hydrocephalic pre-teens. [...]

I had to look that word up...

But yeah, it kind of seems like it's one or the other; either they look almost chibi style, or they have absurdly womanly shapes for their age. ;x

[...] making them look like hydrocephalic pre-teens. [...]

I had to look that word up...

Thank god, me too.
It turned out to be a kinda fucked up way to describe badly drawn children tho

What are your thoughts on loli age gap?

Sounds like a tight fit.

What can we do more to promote it?

I dunno why this is remotely necessary. It's fine if you're into that since it's not harming anyone but it's not exactly something that requires promoting either.

I find a character with child's mental maturity being in a sexual relationship extremely unattractive, especially when their partner is a much more mature character. The result is usually an unhealthy relationship that's built on the mature character taking advantage of either a lack of consent or a lack of an understanding of consent that is disguised as innocence. I'd hardly call it purity.

Itou hachi's OneeLoli series is relatively acceptable for me in comparison to Oshikko Sensei, as the master in OneeLoli seems to have some boundaries and their relationship is not explicitly sexual. Oshikko Sensei is just fetishy molestation and I wouldn't mind seeing a lot less of that kind of stuff. The two oneshots in between tend toward the latter category for me.

last edited at May 19, 2016 5:51AM

I already don't like loli art, but loli age gap is the last thing I'd promote. It's something that Japan is behind the times on banning. If there are explicit depictions of sex in them, it would count as child pornography by US law. If we tagged it as kiddie porn here, people would have a completely different inclination to read it here.

So by that logic, explicit depictions of murder and torture should count as murder and torture ? Same for rape ? Guess we should put most of hollywood, comics book writers, anime/cartoon writers and so on in jail, then. And what about all those people who play games like GTA and so on ?

Work of fictions always depict, in a kinda glorified way, a lot of stuff you wouldn't want to see happen in real life. Take most movies that goes into theaters and there's a ton of killing, violence, law breaking in many ways.

I get people are sensitive when it comes to children and yeah, real life child porn is bad, but there's a thing as being oversensitive. No real kids are being molested in mangas, though I get it makes some people uncomfortable, just as other people are uncomfortable with gory violence. But I think it's best not to start linking those to actual crime, lest we end up in a society that could actually put you in jail just for the thoughts you might have.