Nora

she thinks that Seju plays ball till Sumin is back

Bwahahahah~

I mentioned ch46.. I expected you to check it.. but here is the snapshot that shows clearly that Sungji and Nammi had further conversation that we didn't see.
http://imgur.com/a/g7gpp

I did check it... do you think someone like me would remember details like phone number and whereabout? You need to lower your expectation even further. hahaha. But that's that, "further conversation that we didn't see"... not believing it until I see it. (I know y'all hate Nami, but I don't.)

momonosuke

I did check it... do you think someone like me would remember details like phone number and whereabout? You need to lower your expectation even further. hahaha. But that's that, "further conversation that we didn't see"... not believing it until I see it. (I know y'all hate Nami, but I don't.)

I don't hate Nammi, just won't have her as a friend because I can't trust her around my "harem" hehehe. Just like the conversation we didn't see between Nammi and Sungji when they discussed Sumin's athleticism in high school. there could be much other conversations and questions from Sungji who seemed curious about the nature of Sumin's and Seju's relationship (btw, Sumin only admitted that in ch56 after getting caught.. Nammi and her coworkers told her that much earlier in the first arc)

there is a specific panel in ch46 in which Sungji asks Sumin a very sharp question.. if she could ask about anything.. and Sumin was in shock (you know why).. till Sungji said that she would ask Nammi instead hahahah

http://imgur.com/a/zzOAg

last edited at Aug 12, 2017 9:31PM

Nora
Just like the conversation we didn't see between Nammi and Sungji when they discussed Sumin's athleticism in high school. there could be much other conversations and questions from Sungji who seemed curious about the nature of Sumin's and Seju's relationship (btw, Sumin only admitted that in ch56 after getting caught.. Nammi and her coworkers told her that much earlier in the first arc)

It is innocent proven guilty, not the other way around. I find it unfair to accuse Nami of negatively influencing Sungji when we did not even get to see the conversation. For all I can tell, Nami did not say anything in ch58, neither did the conversation hinted that she revealed anything prior to the ch55 incident. It was mostly Seju's talk in ch.27/55 flashback that painted the evil sugar mama image in Sungji's head.

momonosuke

It was mostly Seju's talk in ch.27/55 flashback that painted the evil sugar mama image in Sungji's head.

I thought this at first too. Nora then explained the Nami situation to me, as well as Seju's purpose for the talk.

I still have my reservations about what to believe, both sides are arguable. Thank you though, Nora, for taking the time to explain.

Regardless, we still want Seju to find her happiness. That's what makes the complexity of her character and WDTFS as a whole so great.

last edited at Aug 12, 2017 10:11PM

png

As of now, it is still hard for me to believe these two theories
- Seju chose sungji for sumin to leave sumin in good hands before she peaced out.

For the first theory, what really made me think was rereading chapter 14.... the interaction between Seju and Sungji.

I agree, it would be nice for Team Gaji to confirm or deny those theories. Not sure if that's going to happen though.

I read that chapter several times... which was one of the moments that showed how cunning Seju was. XD
I had a different idea of why she said that. It was mentioned long time ago and had some back and forth, don't really want to dig it out anymore. Let's just say that if that was what Seju wanted, then she may have achieved it (accidentally), she only had herself to blame for her lonely remaining life. lol. But yea, I need closure from Gaji :(

Foxy

Yep! I think differently. Most people saw the surface events, I see the underlying events. You see behaviors, attitudes.. I see motives, reasons. In short, I see patterns.
That is why it is easier to discuss with Norah since she had an eidetic memory. She journeys with me looking at those scenes. So, it is easier to pin point where she fails to look beyond.

Hahahaha. I like you a lot better when you are not refraining yourself.

last edited at Aug 12, 2017 10:29PM

momonosuke

she only had herself to blame for her lonely remaining life. lol. But yea, I need closure from Gaji :(

With these theories and others like it, I always have a back and forth on if I believe them or not. Nora89 and Foxy lady's purpose is not necessarily to convince, but to show, as they have said previously.

Indecisiveness again... If this really is a common trait between Geminis... XD

I am convinced of the ending though and have been for a while now.

last edited at Aug 12, 2017 10:42PM

purpose is not necessarily to convince, but to show, as they have said previously.

What's the purpose of showing?

Indecisiveness again... If this really is a common trait between Geminis... XD

XD

What's the purpose of showing?

I paraphrased. XD

Again, I feel like a student learning from my wiser teachers. :)

Foxy

This is trivial. It doesn't affect the underlying event. So, joking around that people who has this idea doesn't know how to read, I find it below the belt. It is better if you directly say it to me that I don't know how to read. I will take it as a joke. :)

in case you confused things, let's take another look:

Most readers thought Sumin was talking to Sungji when the other line said, "Do you remember?"

you mean this: http://imgur.com/a/xA5GQ hahah.. most readers who would get this idea are those who can't read XD

This is the case where I said that those who would confuse who said the line are probably non existent "readers who can't read".. deliberate misunderstanding again ?

If I have something to directly say to you, I won't hesitate !

momonosuke

It is innocent proven guilty, not the other way around. I find it unfair to accuse Nami of negatively influencing Sungji when we did not even get to see the conversation. For all I can tell, Nami did not say anything in ch58, neither did the conversation hinted that she revealed anything prior to the ch55 incident. It was mostly Seju's talk in ch.27/55 flashback that painted the evil sugar mama image in Sungji's head.

Nammi might not think she is wrong or had misunderstood things when she handed them to Sungji.. I understood that Sungji and Nammi talked at least once without us seeing the conversation (behind the panels XD) . In ch58, Nammi only reason to hold back is to not tip the balance of an indecisive Sungji (did she restrain herself before ? doubtful). As in ch27/55 flashback, I agree that Seju did participate in that.. but I also can't think of Nammi not interfering given how she thinks of Seju and the fact that she hangs around Sungji a lot talking about Sumin.

I understand why you won't be convinced.. but true, there is no exact panel that shows it once and for all. The fact that you agree that Sungji has misconceptions about SuminXSeju is the most important part.. how she got them, it doesn't matter much.

last edited at Aug 13, 2017 9:01AM

zyxa, interesting question..

yoonie04

Since you are playing on both sides and i haven't heard the other end, why do you think sumin and sungji will end up together?

I know that you asked yoonie , but I would love to play double for a second XD.

At points I truly thought that the story could end either sides depending solely on Team Gaji's philosophy and the message that they want to illustrate.. and both are dreamy and ideal:

• Seju - Sumin: represent eternal love, fate (we saw this theme alot with this couple), accurate devotion will someday reunite you with the one you are fated to.. no matter how long it takes as long as you believe in the other person.

• Sungji - Sumin: represent love from the first sight, love is blind (as Sungji mentioned ch51), energy.. acceptance (loving someone wholeheartedly while accepting their baggage).. loving again is possible.. giving second chances instead of giving up on someone you love.

Yes, I do believe it will end with SuminXSeju because of how the story went so far (scattered evidences).. but if it does shock me and ends with SungjiX Sumin.. I won't hate or feel disappointed, because there is a beauty behind either endings which I do respect a lot.

yoonie04

Since you are playing on both sides and i haven't heard the other end, why do you think sumin and sungji will end up together?

Sorry it took me too long to answer, today is too hectic for my liking xD

Fate is the theme but there is another theme, finding love again and SuminxSungji fits perfectly in this category xD, just like fate for SejuxSumin

Another thing is Sungji, she is the reason for why I havent given up on this couple just yet even though I like Seju. The biggest reason why I still bet on this ending even though things have changed alot since the day I took this bet xDDDD. Just like Seju, she is persistent xD, she persist with what she chose and who she wanted to be with. Despite hurt and doubt from loving someone like Sumin, she still stays with her and being with her, trying her hardest to understand Sumin and being a good gf.

I'm sorry to all Sumin fans but despite all promising words Sumin has said to Sungji, Sungji is the sole reason why I still think SuminxSungji is possible xDDDDD, that I still have chance to win this bet, not because Sumin "loves Sungji more" or "Sungji is the person Sumin loves right now" or "SuminxSungji is better", otherwise, I would've given up long ago.

If the author goes for a theme when one person shouldnt give up too soon on someone who you think is a apathetic person from the outside, turning that person into someone she used to be, Sungji will be the ending that many of readers hope for

So imo, even though Sumin is the middle person, she is awesome but Seju and Sungji are the one who makes this love triangle special. They both represent two different things in love. Seju is forever love, Sungji is second chance, and both are equally meaningful in real life xDDD, which one do you think the author will go to? XDDDDD

I, for once, dont know myself but I like forever love more even though I feel that the author will go for second chance xDDDD

hehe, I've seen too many second chance endings so I'm sorry for being biased for my bias

last edited at Aug 13, 2017 9:52AM

yoonie
there are actually five shots that I loved the most: once in ch71, when she was talking to Saehyun and another when she just cut her hair in ch56 (Now I know).. and maybe when she held Sumin's in ch27 (you came..), ch10 when she was laying down playing with her hair.. lastly in ch84, holding her drink..
dammit, I love all her shots !!! hard to choose
but all these shots are hard to put into an avatar sadly.
http://imgur.com/a/QYLbk

I tend to choose ava based on the meaning of the scene also, not just how beautiful she looks in that scene. And somehow I find sad scenes imprint in my mind the most xDDD

This particular scene with her unreadable expression, the shadow of the umbrella over her head, the sad words from Sumin, its perfect, so I choose it XDDDD

Every scene of Seju is worth making avatar, I tell you, especially in arc 3 =))))

interesting .. Gaji, the artist, said in her twitter account that she felt sad drawing this chapter, ch89. Well, there was no chapter that made me more worked up and heart broken than ch74.. that talk really broke my heart. hahahaha
this chapter, not so much.

Really? I find it more meaningful than any of other broke up talk they had, even the one when Seju cried in chap 66(65?), cant remember clearly, because Sumin talk about one of the things Seju used to do in the past, waiting for Sumin under snow. She also implied that Seju should stop waiting for her, not just under snow xDDDD, but snow is the most painful xDDD, Cause that's their thing

And they always spent snowfall together since young. Snow is their special thing in relationship, I believe, so choosing the snow, under the snow to say all that, this is more than any of their break up talk before xDDDD even though there is no tears, no yelling or bitter words from Seju, its just much sadder

Which is why I wonder big time how Seju didnt utter single word or showing any emotion. This is so not her when it comes to Sumin

what I noticed, was Seju's talk about death and self worthiness.. is it a thing from before or related to PTSD symptoms??

No, I dont think so. This is what has been in her head since she was a kid xDDDDD. the desire of living and self-worthiness.

last edited at Aug 13, 2017 9:49AM

yoonie

This particular scene with her unreadable expression, the shadow of the umbrella over her head, the sad words from Sumin, its perfect, so I choose it XDDDD

I am shocked at how much romance with a touch of masochism lover you are ~

as for the scenes, the one in ch74.. the transition in that talk alone is self explanatory to how their relationship went for the last 10 years:
a welcoming Seju, tucking her hair behind her ears.. a cold hard headed Sumin.. defensive Seju.. then both of them break in which Sumin barely held her tears. It was a very strong scene.

The other one in ch27 "you came..", is also one of the strongest.. in her deep despair, she still didn't change the locks.. she was expecting Sumin because deep inside she knew that she will comeback.. and when she did, Seju opened her arms for her, held her tight towards herself.. no admonition no anger.. just them colliding together in the now.

And they always spent snowfall together since young. Snow is their special thing in relationship, I believe, so choosing the snow, under the snow to say all that, this is more than any of their break up talk before xDDDD even though there is no tears, no yelling or bitter words from Seju, its just much sadder

awwwww .. I always thought as well that the snow means something for them.. and it was always Seju who waits for Sumin in their teenage years.. flashback of ch2 and in front of the academy ch47.. Seju always waited for her.. even when they got older. So for Sumin to tell her not to wait for her anymore.. can and it does hold two meanings at least.

No, I dont think so. This is what has been in her head since she was a kid xDDDDD. the desire of living and self-worthiness.

well, it is a combination of both. Sumin as well has low self worth that could be traced to her inferiority complex and PTSD.. this is clearly shown in her inner thought about whether or not she deserves to be loved or deserves Sungji and her other ex's.

I am shocked at how much romance with a touch of masochism lover you are ~

Hehehe, I'm weird after all, like Foxy Lady has said, hehehehe

as for the scenes, the one in ch74.. the transition in that talk alone is self explanatory to how their relationship went for the last 10 years:
a welcoming Seju, tucking her hair behind her ears.. a cold hard headed Sumin.. defensive Seju.. then both of them break in which Sumin barely held her tears. It was a very strong scene.

Hehe but it lacks a little bit of romantic xDDDD, its seer painful scene.

The other one in ch27 "you came..", is also one of the strongest.. in her deep despair, she still didn't change the locks.. she was expecting Sumin because deep inside she knew that she will comeback.. and when she did, Seju opened her arms for her, held her tight towards herself.. no admonition no anger.. just them colliding together in the now.

That's true but are you sure it was the first time Sumin came back, or there were a few times prior to that, that's why she knew key lock? After all, I dont think Seju has lived in that house for 10 years without moving

well, it is a combination of both. Sumin as well has low self worth that could be traced to her inferiority complex and PTSD.. this is clearly shown in her inner thought about whether or not she deserves to be loved or deserves Sungji and her other ex's.

Hmmm, that's partly true. This is why despite many people think Seju should move on, I, on the other hand, think that only Sumin could improve Seju's low self-esteem by her love and actions and that Sumin is the key for Seju to finally feel love and realize that she deserves to be happy xDDDD.

Just take a look at how Seju has made Sumin feel better about herself in the flashback of the ring, the words are simple, you just need to be by my side, that's the best gift. Or how Sungji said to Sumin also.

Sometimes words and a little bit of action means a lot more than we thought =))))))))

Seju doesnt actually need to move on to another person to be able to love herself, she just needs someone to assure her and treasure her for being her. Who could do that more than Sumin, tbh? XDDDDD

last edited at Aug 13, 2017 11:55AM

yoonie

That's true but are you sure it was the first time Sumin came back, or there were a few times prior to that, that's why she knew key lock? After all, I dont think Seju has lived in that house for 10 years without moving

Seju had two houses during the time she and Sumin slept together before their break up.. ch71's house is different from ch8,10, 26 and 27. Then she had another house in ch45 (way after their breakup) and then this house. so no, she lived in other houses through the last 10 years.

is it the first time that Sumin comes back, ch27?
I say yes, the significance of the moment is what lead team Gaji to illustrate it. If there was another such a dramatic moment like Sumin's first coming back to Seju's bed, I guess TG would have made it in that exact chapter.

yoonie I agree that seju can use some acknowledgement and motivation, and sumin is the best one for this. You also should understand that there is a chance that sumin does not want to do it for reasons... What would you do if you need help from someone, but that person does not want to help you?

momonosuke

yoonie I agree that seju can use some acknowledgement and motivation, and sumin is the best one for this. You also should understand that there is a chance that sumin does not want to do it for reasons... What would you do if you need help from someone, but that person does not want to help you?

okay, it is becoming a habit of me to jump into questions directed to yoonie, but how do you know that Sumin doesn't want to do that?.. she at least admitted being sorry for the fact that she is unable to take responsibility (of whatever mistake she means and blames herself for).. then she does remind Seju of her worth and that she is different from her brothers. Sumin as usual, is torn between what she wants to do heart and mind.

http://imgur.com/a/O2BV3

Hey does anybody know if theyre ever going to sell hard print copies of the manga, and if so in English as well?

okay, it is becoming a habit of me to jump into questions directed to yoonie, but how do you know that Sumin doesn't want to do that?.. she at least admitted being sorry for the fact that she is unable to take responsibility (of whatever mistake she means and blames herself for).. then she does remind Seju of her worth and that she is different from her brothers. Sumin as usual, is torn between what she wants to do heart and mind.

http://imgur.com/a/O2BV3

Hahaha. It's alright. I don't mind multiple people jumping in. It is less about knowing sumin wanting to help, more about knowing when to help herself. In the context of seju and sumin's relationship, seju does not know how to help herself without sumin, thus she becomes dependent of sumin. All is good as long as sumin continues to support her, or support her to a point that she has sufficient self respect to live on her own. I am pointing at a possiblity that either will happen, then what is her plan B? Imo, when seju starts to think about plan B, she starts to think about her meaning of life, a purpose that revolves more around her than sumin.

yoonie0104 and Nora89

Speaking of shots of Seju, I like the single shot of her in her dream in chapter 82.

"Right now, I'm happy." (unofficial translation)

Something she has never truly felt throughout the entire manhwa, excluding flashbacks.

momonosuke

what you said is interesting, but also the dynamics itself went like that for at least 17 years between the two. When Sumin had the case of ch45.. she got beaten up and stuff.. first person she went to was Seju, she just threw herself in Seju's arms drunk and drained.. even slept 3 days at Seju's house while being well taken care of. It is the case as well for Seju, when the assault happened, ch77: "sorry, but Sumin is the only person I've got". ch50, the dream sequence, explained to you WHY would Sumin appear every time Seju comes back from the main house, it is not out of sense of duty or that she is afraid that Seju would kill herself, but because Sumin is IN LOVE WITH HER.. it was a mere excuse for her, Seju can't force her to, in a matter of fact.. Sumin appeared by her free will in ch19, even Seju was surprised. Saehyun in ch76 mentioned to Sumin that it is not about bodyguards but Seju NEEDS her.. emotional support mostly. Can Seju live without Sumin? well, yes.. months would go by without them meeting whenever Sumin was dating someone.. but what Seju can't live without is her hope that Sumin would comeback.
ch27: you came back
ch45: she will always comeback.

Q) is it reciprocal ?
A) pretty much, YES.. Sumin who dated on average a new girl every 4 months in the past 10 years, went furious by the mere idea that Seju would be bedding someone else or even marrying someone. Look at her reaction in ch74 (losing her cool) and her insistence on buying the house which will be forever a house that Seju once bought for her.. and look at Sumin's house arrangement that replicates Seju's houses in ch71 and in ch8,10. From above point, ch50.. it was Sumin who texted Seju first hand.. then Seju answered, while Sumin was dating someone else, she simply chose to break it off at the same day and go to Seju instead, even when Seju didn't really expect Sumin to do it.

Bottom Line
They both can live without each other, but they themselves would deliberately leave a tie or two to get them back together, maybe an excuse or a mere hope. But they always have it like that. This point is interesting, because now Seju would go to her mother's cottage which Sumin is most likely unaware of its location.. would that play a role in this context? I wonder

mpgpeg

ah, there is another shot I really love.. when Seju's image popped up in Sumin's head in the bus ride ch59
and her eye to eye gaze to Sungji when she was topping Sumin and biting her lips in ch55 .. I could've sworn that Seju said: "she is MINE" hehehe

There are some shots that I also love of Sungji, ch69.. when Sumin kissed her forehead, told her "I love you" and Sungji teared.
ch58, the last 3 panels.. the wind ~
ch60.. has many beautiful shots of Sungji .. third panel before the last and these:
http://imgur.com/a/sZ9wJ

last edited at Aug 13, 2017 3:50PM

Nora89

ah, there is another shot I really love.. when Seju's image popped up in Sumin's head in the bus ride ch59

I forgot about that one... Another Sumin remembering moment.

There are some shots that I also love of Sungji,

Probably the most iconic shot of Sungji is the last panel of chapter 13. Everything about that shot was well drawn, from herself to the background.

One of my favorite Sungji and Sumin moments was in chapter 67 with the big stuffed fox (?), "Don't cry because of me..."

Nora 4 months on average, huh. How long have sungji and sumin been dating? About time to breakup? Hehehe.
You are right about the dynamic, and I think it is changing already.

mpgpeg

good moments, especially that one in ch67.

momonosuke

Nora 4 months on average, huh. How long have sungji and sumin been dating? About time to breakup? Hehehe.

hahahaha.. there is a pattern and an adequate sample, you know.

You are right about the dynamic, and I think it is changing already.

the dynamics change is exactly the point.. this is the only way this circle will be broken into another formation, ch50 and ch54 are game changers. Remember when this chapter just came out, I said that this time if Sumin ever goes to Seju.. she will be out of excuses, it's not work, not the assassin or Seju's family. Same thing for Seju, if Sumin would ever knock her door, Seju would ask for a full monogamous relationship (ch86).. in which she also can kiss Sumin and make love to her the way she wants to (ch54) and have her by her side completely.

last edited at Aug 13, 2017 5:17PM