Forum › What Does the Fox Say discussion
Is there a scene where Sumin admits it 100 percent that she blames Seju? Or were there just things said that we can safely assume that Sumin blames Seju for her parents death?
if it really matters,
...
ah, you don't really believe in the significance of the body language also in ch11.. so I won't bother arguing that
Good catch! But it can be read both ways - including her parents' death and not. I think not answering the question says more here :)
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:00PM
yeah it could also mean nothing in the Korean culture :P
"everything" could mean "not everything" .. why not !
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:02PM
I don't believe in much at all to be honest ; )
Sometimes have trouble believing in my own opinions but that's a product of my low self esteem.
Anyway that answered my question. We can safely assume that she blamed Seju.
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:04PM
yeah it could also mean nothing in the Korean culture :P
everything could mean not everything .. why not !
Yeah, but the moment she saw her life really ruined was when she saw Seju with the bartender. Scarring was the final nail that made her want revenge.
I do believe she was partially blaming Seju for her parents' death, but for me, the better proof of it is not answering Seju's question and then going to her with the flowers.
yeah it could also mean nothing in the Korean culture :P
everything could mean not everything .. why not !
Yeah, but the moment she saw her life really ruined was when she saw Seju with the bartender.
now you prove that !
..
you know what my problem is? that you reject intuition that has a supportive panel, gesture, and context for another intuition that has NOTHING to back it up !
..
btw, not answering Seju question, is clearly because she would not admit that thing!
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:22PM
yeah it could also mean nothing in the Korean culture :P
everything could mean not everything .. why not !
Yeah, but the moment she saw her life really ruined was when she saw Seju with the bartender.
now you prove that !
It goes with the state she was in - depression.
She lost her parents, but she still had Seju - a person she trusted most and loved deeply. Seeing Seju with a guy (who Sumin can't even compete with) was a powerful slap in the face for her. The biggest betrayal that could ever happen, especially at that time.
When Seju came to apologize, her explanation made it even worse because she told her, and I quote: "No matter how hard I tried to stay by your side, you acted as if you were going to completely leave me." Which Sumin could've (and probably did) understand as "she slept with him because I was not enough" or "because I was in no condition do please her". Or both. In that moment, Sumin realized she has no one left in her life. Meaning - her life is completely ruined.
besides the point, admit it, SUMIN BLAMED SEJU for her parents death.
don't add stuff Seju and Sumin did not say at all !! in a matter of fact, Sumin did not listen
I believe in context and body language, you can also show it to me if it was implied
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:26PM
besides the point, admit it, SUMIN BLAMED SEJU for her parents death.
I already did... Have you not read my prev posts?
Holy, we're still on this???? Aw, this discussion will be pointless if no one gives in =)))))). I'm sorry, I skipped most of it. Each of you has your own way of interpreting things, anyway :))))). When you favor this character more than another, you will find flaws on the latter, believe it and never forgive =))))))).
yeah it could also mean nothing in the Korean culture :P
everything could mean not everything .. why not !
Yeah, but the moment she saw her life really ruined was when she saw Seju with the bartender.
now you prove that !
It goes with the state she was in - depression.
She lost her parents, but she still had Seju - a person she trusted most and loved deeply. Seeing Seju with a guy (who Sumin can't even compete with) was a powerful slap in the face for her. The biggest betrayal that could ever happen, especially at that time.
When Seju came to apologize, her explanation made it even worse because she told her, and I quote: "No matter how hard I tried to stay by your side, you acted as if you were going to completely leave me." Which Sumin could've (and probably did) understand as "she slept with him because I was not enough" or "because I was in no condition do please her". Or both. In that moment, Sumin realized she has no one left in her life. Meaning - her life is completely ruined.
I'm sorry since I skipped most of the discussion why do you have to prove it? =))))))
besides the point, admit it, SUMIN BLAMED SEJU for her parents death.
don't add stuff Seju and Sumin did not say at all !! in a matter of fact, Sumin did not listen
I believe in context and body language, you can also show it to me if it was implied
Nora, I did read your question in a few pages ago but I need to go to work now, I'll answer you later :).
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:28PM
Nora, I did read your question in a few pages ago but I need to go to work now, I'll answer you later :).
yeah, sure.. I have time :P
besides the point, admit it, SUMIN BLAMED SEJU for her parents death.
I already did... Have you not read my prev posts?
don't add stuff Seju and Sumin did not say at all !! in a matter of fact, Sumin did not listen
I believe in context and body language, you can also show it to me if it was implied
you guys demand a clear sentence, but why can't I get the same from your points huh?
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:31PM
besides the point, admit it, SUMIN BLAMED SEJU for her parents death.
I already did... Have you not read my prev posts?
don't add stuff Seju and Sumin did not say at all !! in a matter of fact, Sumin did not listen
I believe in context and body language, you can also show it to me if it was implied
And I believe in character analysis that I made with Sumin which is based on my own experience with 9 years of group therapy after I went through something terrible and end up with anxiety. It's been 12 years overal now, although I don't need any therapy anymore (I learned to live with it without taking meds). But I am in close contact with one person from my group who's condition is still not good and she's been dealing with depression, depersonalization and anxiety for about 20 years now.
Holy, we're still on this???? Aw, this discussion will be pointless if no one gives in =)))))). I'm sorry, I skipped most of it. Each of you has your own way of interpreting things, anyway :))))). When you favor this character more than another, you will find flaws on the latter, believe it and never forgive =))))))).
favouritism doesn't justify constant mis-reading of events, especially if then these are used to defy a supported opinion.
And I believe in character analysis that I made with Sumin which is based on my own experience with 9 years of group therapy after I went through something terrible and end up with anxiety. It's been 12 years overal now, although I don't need any therapy anymore (I learned to live with it without taking meds). But I am in close contact with one person from my group who's condition is still not good and she's been dealing with depression, depersonalization and anxiety for about 20 years now.
so, Team Gaji make mistakes in basic body language but not in depression ?
the character clearly said "I BLAMED EVERYTHING ON HER".. maybe Seju is depressed too !
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:43PM
And I believe in character analysis that I made with Sumin which is based on my own experience with 9 years of group therapy after I went through something terrible and end up with anxiety. It's been 12 years overal now, although I don't need any therapy anymore (I learned to live with it without taking meds). But I am in close contact with one person from my group who's condition is still not good and she's been dealing with depression, depersonalization and anxiety for about 20 years now.
so, Team Gaji make mistakes in basic body language but not in depression ?
TG's art isn't always perfect - was all I said. And that it's manga so I wouldn't read too much into the drawings.
Es0teric already was talking here about body language and reading it - I agree with her. Asians are more closed and it's proved their body language and facial expressions are difficult to read for us. Just like we're difficult to read for them.
the character clearly said "I BLAMED EVERYTHING ON HER".. maybe Seju is depressed too !
And I said for me, better proof is not answering Seju's question which doesn't change that she did blame her.
Yes, Seju has a depression too. Based on different life experience, but it's still depression.
last edited at May 3, 2017 8:56PM
I give up, you win
I give up, you win
It's not about winning or losing. We pick on different things in this manga, analyse them differently and make our opinions based on what we think about it or what we know from our own life experiences. We're both right and wrong ;) The only one who is 200% right is TG.
Hm, an idea just came to my head. I've been asking myself what would need to happen that would make Seju let go of Sumin and one thing came to me just a minute ago - Sumin ending up hurt by that assassin. We know she observed Sumin. She may go after her at some point. If it happens and she ends up hurt, Seju may see it as putting her in danger, again. And what can she do to protect someone she loves most? Let go of her. Cut all the strings. Maybe even vanish from her life at least for a while. It probably won't happen, but it's one of the logical scenarios.
But most artist will give guidance for readers to understand their story.. lets wait until the story tell itself ... we're over analyze anything here... lmao
There is a difference of analysis with this:
1. Hey, the man is lying death on the asphalt road with bleeding head... a lot of blood
2. Hey, this man is a a rich man that get robbed by and hit ... and now he is lying death with blood
But yeah... people opinion is based on the sense... experience... intellectual... mood....a lot of things... so they represent you in a way
And what kind of conclusion you might think will happened in this story? For anyone point of view that is..
last edited at May 3, 2017 9:31PM
more like,
- there is a fork on the floor, someone must've dropped it
- NO! it could also mean that forks love lying on the ground (see, we have different perspective.. some cultures put their forks on the floor)
Okay, so here is my pov on this XD, note that I haven't read about the discussion (sorry, I woke up and literally didn't have time) so my opinion will not support who or facts, just my own opinion and you're being warned, this is going to be a loooong post XD
The thing is, we all know Sumin’s pov when that happened, we all know how despaired she was, how sad she was, it was described very clearly for us to understand but we know nothing about how Seju felt, we can only guess and guess and…blame her for everything XD but lately, I’ve realized this, thanks to all the flashbacks in arc 3, Seju has always been so insecure about her relationship with Sumin since the very beginning. She’s so afraid of losing Sumin, the one and only person that matters in her whole life. So let’s put it this way, the moment when the cheating happened, an insecure Seju who was always afraid of losing Sumin, for one or more than one month I don’t know, had to deal with the fear of losing Sumin - her only source of happiness for good, afraid than ever when Sumin showed signs of blaming Seju for everything that happened (note that I don’t say Sumin blame her for real or not, I’m saying Seju THINK Sumin blamed her for this and I believe no doubt Seju indeed felt that way, based on the conversation). Seju had to deal with a girlfriend who was wasting her life because of the passing of her parents and the fear of losing her for good and being accused of the reason for her lost XD. I understand why she told Sumin to move on, I wont question that like other people, simply what else could you say? Let her ruin her life and continue to drink her day away while stay on her side? How useless and powerless of you to let her do that in front of your own eyes without telling her to get up and move on? Even if it’s just one month? What I wonder is why she asked for the ring right after that and now I think I got my answer. When I realized this, I started to understand more Seju’s actions, beneath that strong façade, lays an insecure Seju who’s always afraid of Sumin so when she saw her taking off the ring, her fear grew bigger than ever and that’s why she questioned it without thinking much about the situation Sumin was in, it’s an instinct, that’s also why she looked so depressed when she drank wine. Note that, at that moment, Sumin only began to have Seju as the only person she could rely on but to Seju, it has always been like that since the beginning and for her whole life. The fear of losing Sumin might be unbearable. Just so you know, I’m not defending her =)))))), I’m just trying to understand her XD. Not like Sumin, we can only guess how she feels in that matter anyway, the author doesn’t give us much
Oh, in case, I want to say this to:
The chap when the cheating happened, I’ll be honest, I didn’t read it much, just one or two times, when the chap first came out and one more time to understand the story. And I read it when Sumin was my favourite and Seju was far from a likeable person at that moment. But when I read it, this came to my mind first and foremost, Seju was at fault but to me, she didn’t do it on purpose and that was the me who didn’t favour Seju at all thought, so I hope it’s a fair judgment XD. To me, back then, when I read it, Seju was all to be blamed but I don’t consider it at sth to judge her or hate her, because she didn’t do it on purpose and she was in distress XD.
Other things, like she’s being drugged, and sth like that, I don’t really pay attention much since they’re just theories which we cant prove it true or not until the moment the author reveals it XD, I only base on my own feeling about one scene when I see it and this particular scene, to me, is like that, right off the bat.
yoonie0104
Interesting !
ah, I did not connect the insecurity thing from ch 71 and also in ch 56 to this before at all, but more importantly the fact that it was only Sumin POV in ch 10-11 and Seju's continuation in ch 26-27 (so THERE IS something missing !)
last edited at May 3, 2017 10:34PM
yoonie0104
Interesting !
ah, I did not connect the insecurity thing from ch 71 and also in ch 56 to this before at all, but more importantly the fact that it was only Sumin POV in ch 10-11 and Seju's continuation in ch 26-27 (so THERE IS something missing !)
There would be a reason why the author shows us now the insecure side of Seju in the past. She needs it to explain sth in the story XD. There is always a purpose for flashbacks, so I keep looking into it XD. I'm not sure I was right or not but I'm sure these flashbacks serve a purpose XD. Especially when those flashbacks are totally different from the others
last edited at May 3, 2017 11:06PM