Hey everyone so I don't know if this is an inappropriate topic to discuss here but anyways.
I've been reading "I won't sleep with you for free" and I think it kinda sucks, but my thoughts are a little more complex about the issue. When reading the comments, there seem to be two "factions": 1. the people who think it's bad because the story is bad, and 2. the people who think it's porn and porn doesn't need a good story.
This made me think about yuri porn in general because I often consume it but never treat it the same as i would the porn I actually masturbate to. In fact, I never masturbate to yuri. Maybe it's because I associate some negative feelings with masturbation and would rather keep my enjoyment of yuri ""pure"" for lack of a better term.
But I genuinely read yuri porn for the plot. So when the plot sucks, I think the whole thing sucks. You can still pull off super simple and basic stories really well, but I just straight up dislike the story of "I won't sleep with you for free". Probably because I dislike Nakano, so sex scenes with her are a negative experience.
The thing is, I probably wouldn't mind those things if I actually just used that manga for masturbation, because the utility aspect would come first so I would probably just look at the drawings.
This brings me to my question: Do the people who enjoy that one look past how shit it actually is because they masturbate to it or is it normal to expect a bad story from any NSFW manga and people like me are the outlier?
One comment said: "I don't know how people could read something that hot and get hung up on the narrative." referring to that one "just shut up and enjoy it" page. I mean I could think of a million ways where you might have a problem with something even if it sexually arouses you, but whatever.
What I find interesting about that page in particular is that I totally get how it's hot, but I just don't feel the same happiness I would normally feel when seeing a spicy moment like that. My guess is that the characters involved kinda need to earn my sympathy beforehand. If I imagine the same page but with Momo and Shamiko from Demon Girl Next Door for example, I think I would really like it.
Sorry for the unhinged rant, but I really wanted to get this off my chest. I posted this here instead of on the thread of the actual manga because I think it goes quite off topic, sorry if this was a mistake.

1. the people who think it's bad because the story is bad, and 2. the people who think it's porn and porn doesn't need a good story.

I'm not convinced it's that simple. My "utility" picks generally feature specific aspects and preferences, and as long as those are fulfilled, I don't really care about the story. A 20 page oneshot that's brimming with horny and has an artstyle I like will do the trick, the story might as well fit on a post-it by that point. Heck, I definitely am one to habitually skip the opening and jump right into the action. However: Having a feasible scenario that allows for our characters to be uber horny as well as characters that are suited to conveying that horny goes a long way, so it's never really the case that what one might classify as "story" doesn't factor in at all.

That's not the whole story, though. I've largely stopped looking for hentai featuring characters I like or from shows/manga/games I like because they often end up clashing hard with the source material, be it Yuri, Yaoi or het. One fantastic example for a het hentai doujin that I found to perfectly fit with the characterization from the show it's based on was Paraphilia (e-hentai link, I think those are considered kosher on Dynasty. Relvant tags: Anal, Asphyxiation) by Azasuke Wind featuring the two lead characters from Black Lagoon. That one thus exploits the existing narrative and characters to the fullest and doesn't need to establish much story in its own right.
The characters' "purity" sometimes also does come into play. I read and thoroughly enjoyed the NSFW bonus chapters to Beauty and the Best Girl, but didn't "use" them. I absolutely appreciated bearing witness to their sex life (does that count as voyeurism?), but it wasn't ever the focus if the series.

Then there's what you might think of as "porn you read for the plot (or generally not to get off)" and while I do read such titles every now and then, I rarely "use" them. I'm not bothered by lolis, I love Itou Hachi's artstyle, but I don't think I've "used" one of her manga as "material" yet. Same goes for Eve's Medicine. I'm torn on whether I want to read or continue reading some of Mira's output for similar reasons, because they're right on the edge of being "suitable material" and "interesting enough to genuinely enjoy".

Finding something that really ticks off both boxes that's more than a oneshot (and thus heavily focused on the utility) is rare for me.

last edited at Oct 16, 2022 6:41PM

That's not the whole story, though. I've largely stopped looking for hentai featuring characters I like or from shows/manga/games I like because they often end up clashing hard with the source material, be it Yuri, Yaoi or het.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that does that. Something I've noticed lately that kinda irritates me is just how much NTR there is of various smaller series I like.

last edited at Oct 16, 2022 7:18PM

Different people enjoy things for different reasons. Some people don't need any plot in their porn. Speaking personally, I actually do need to like the plot and/or characters to enjoy my porn, but my standards are different than they are for SFW content. Sometimes they're lower; a hentai manga will have to devote a majority of its page count to sex which naturally limits its storytelling, so you have to take that into account. But in other ways, my standards are just different.

Specifically, I am far more tolerant of scumbag or even just plain evil protagonists being portrayed...not necessarily positively, but getting everything they want anyway. That's where I differ with you regarding I Won't Sleep With You For Free; Nakano is certainly a terrible person but I enjoy reading about her anyway. (And there are plenty of hentai protagonists far, far worse than her.) I'm not sure why this might be though...

By the way, if you're interested in this topic, I *highly " recommend Ah... and Mm... Are All She Says.

That being said, by all means if you do happen to find something that's written well and doesn't clash with any of your sensibilities, then you found yourself a goldmine (or should I say... a fountain). The issue is that... 99% of porn is garbage ;v

Sometimes you come across a specific author whose output almost consistently appeals to you. I trawl through a lot of porn whenever I consume for utility because, as you said, 95-99% of it is garbage to me for one reason or another, so for one "session" I sometimes end up skimming ten or more manga from my filtered list which had at least some appeal in their cover art. Usually it's not more than one or two of even those that genuinely work out.

Plot very rarely is seen as important part, so most of the time it turns out either very generic or very badly written.

I think plot as in "story" isn't as relevant as characterization. I don't need some grand narrative or a development that's being built towards, but the characters better be fleshed out enough to credibly support their interactions. If those characters then end up appearing in multiple works, that can work out supremely well, but I'd say that's in no small part due to the artist's MO just being right up your alley.

You just wrote a generic "don't like, don't read, let people enjoy w/e they want without bashing them for it" comment when at no point Hoden86 ever implied that they think people shouldn't enjoy works like that or trying to argue some objective criteria of how works should be written. In fact saying that someone shouldn't even attempt trying to understand something they don't is all kinds of backwards thinking.

My goal was never to stifle all attempts at understanding others, nor was it to offend anyone. On further reflection, I don't think my post needed to be made. Deleting, and I apologize.