rule#1: a work that has no designed ending is not ready to be released to the public.

A proponent of reverse engineering XDDD

very true.. I actually call it backward induction same as the Game Theory solution method for a multiple stages game.. and it is the best way to solve any maze, start from the ending point working your way to the beginning.

very true.. I actually call it backward induction same as the Game Theory solution method for a multiple stages game.. and it is the best way to solve any maze, start from the ending point working your way to the beginning.

I believe in reverse engineering too -it is a logical way to write a story- and I imagine if I ever write one that's how I would write it. But somehow there's always this nagging feeling that a story written without reverse engineering has an added value lol that somehow it would defy the imagination more, challenges the rigidity of our thoughts more..of course there's the risk that it won't end well XDDD but if it does end well...it will be splendid!

But somehow there's always this nagging feeling that a story written without reverse engineering has an added value lol that somehow it would defy the imagination more, challenges the rigidity of our thoughts more..of course there's the risk that it won't end well XDDD but if it does end well...it will be splendid!

that's also applied on stories written with "reversed engineering".. when you know where to end, you can take multiple options and endless probabilities to how you want to reach it.. George R. R. Martin knew his ending very well when he started writing the first book in 1993 (released it in 1996), it gave him so much flexibility even with the TV show making.. because he knows where to end.. and he knows the starting point.. the route in between is creatively changeable.

last edited at Aug 7, 2017 5:49AM

that's also applied on stories written with "reversed engineering".. when you know where to end, you can take multiple options and endless probabilities to how you want to reach it.. George R. R. Martin knew his ending very well when he started writing the first book in 1993 (released it in 1996), it gave him so much flexibility even with the TV show making.. because he knows where to end.. and he knows the starting point.. the route in between is creatively changeable.

Yeah but to me there's also beauty in venturing into the unknown and to actually end up in a good place nevertheless (or despite it all..) - as opposed to making sure from the very beginning of the good end.

last edited at Aug 7, 2017 6:01AM

Yeah but to me there's also beauty in venturing into the unknown and to actually end up in a good place nevertheless (as opposed to making sure from the very beginning of the good end).

believe me, writers end up with making lame endings to tighten the loose ends, very famous tool for them: kill the main character, end the suffering and the story all together XD.

don't get me wrong, even with "reversed engineering" the route is truly flexible, it's the fact that the writer knows where he/she is headed makes everything connected and meaningful instead of aimlessly wander around.
Same could be said about WDTFS and Team Gaji changes in the story "the getting caught scene" that was decided from the beginning and before the serialisation and how they decided to show it later on.. the ending result they wanted was achieved and everything is falling in its rightful place as the story goes.. because it all makes sense and it all leads to the same results.

Nora
I do really believe in the concept of reverse engineering. And I agree the pitfalls of not reverse engineering are present in multitudes.. And things can end very very badly.. Yet somehow when it does end up well.. There's something serendipitous about it and that is probably what I like abt it..

It's rather like how we know algebra is one of the most logical ways to solve an equation and yet there are other ways (more around about but perhaps also more simplistic) to solve the same equation and these methods are beautiful in their own way. Although well I do like my algebra a lot so what am I saying lol

Orange

Whether you are right or not.. still, American producers messed up a big time writing their shows with no idea how to end them!
A disappointment to say the least.

GOT is probably not an exception if the leaks are true. Dammit, I hated the leaks.. good guys win and the bad guys die! What kind of shamely simplistic ending that is

last edited at Aug 7, 2017 6:47AM

Lol I must say there are many many badly written scripts out there..

Nora89

they say that there are no scientific evidence.. but ho hey, I am here XD.

I wish I had that for my exams next week... XD I bet it has been really beneficial for you in life. It has been for this manhwa.

Orange

Do you know any good stories written without the ending in mind? I see what you mean, but I can't think of one on top of my head.

No. And if your claim turns out to be correct, you are a future teller. :'D Imo, if you say Sungji has already dumped Sumin, you are delusional. However, if you do have a valid reason to back up your points, you are more like a logical thinker. If you give no reason to support things you claimed, you might subconsciously be annoying people.

Eh, this conversation already happened with Orange and Es0teric. I don't want to repeat it. You are right more or less.

Nora how did you know David and Daniel did not consult with George Martin about the ending before they started the show? It seems like a very important piece of info they should get out of Martin, or at least have him agree on their direction, before he kicks the bucket.

Not a writer here (never written more than 2000 words of anything :p), but I would expect writer to at least know the ending, but not necessarily all the pieces or how to get to that ending.

mpgpeg

I wish I had that for my exams next week... XD I bet it has been really beneficial for you in life. It has been for this manhwa.

mpgpeg, what are you doing? you should be book-worming now. Everything will be still here when your exam is over.. study hard and good luck.

momonosuke

Nora how did you know David and Daniel did not consult with George Martin about the ending before they started the show? It seems like a very important piece of info they should get out of Martin, or at least have him agree on their direction, before he kicks the bucket.

because I've seen some leaks regarding season 8, and how things are going through the whole 7 seasons.. they consult stuff with him, but the TV adaptation don't take his words as final ones, but David and Dan's.
If you know him, he criticises LOR for being a black and white kind of story, where the good guys win and the bad guys die (and bad guys are just bad for the sake of being so).. this is what David and Dan are doing, everything that George critsies!!

Not a writer here (never written more than 2000 words of anything :p), but I would expect writer to at least know the ending, but not necessarily all the pieces or how to get to that ending.

again the leaks, they wanted to kill Bran, but George didn't want so.. and many other things that suggests that they don't know what they want.. another thing they said on a recent video regarding Theon who jumped in the water this season..that they only decided about it later: oh, he might be still traumatised by Ramsey!..
what the hell.. they didn't even know what to do with him before writing this season ?!

Nora89

mpgpeg, what are you doing? you should be book-worming now. Everything will be still here when your exam is over.. study hard and good luck.

I really should stop procrastinating... But the next chapter is out tomorrow! Definitely going to read the forum. XD

Thank you though.

I don't watch GOT. You guys' discussion is killing me.

I don't watch GOT. You guys' discussion is killing me.

I would love to discuss WDTFS if I had something new that wasn't already saied :'D

But I remember once you made use of the thread when it went boring :P

Guess it will be alright when the new chapter comes.. new things to talk about~

last edited at Aug 7, 2017 9:02PM

Noraaaaaa you are also one of those people who go around destroying life!
See, that's the reason I don't go around reading leak or guessing how the producers decide on certain thing. I like to eat the food and not look at the kitchen. If I absolutely have to look at the kitchen, then I will do so after I finish my delicious food. Do that in reverse order and you may have a hard time enjoying the meal. You are ruined, girl. Ruined!

Enk at this rate, they may need 95 chapters. We will see tomorrow.

last edited at Aug 7, 2017 9:15PM

Firstly, sorry about this Sia ue and thank you for bearing with me XDDDD and....don't dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee LOL

Jpeg

Do you know any good stories written without the ending in mind? I see what you mean, but I can't think of one on top of my head.

Unfortunately..unlike Nora when I read, I don't geek out on the author and the writing process..even for books I really like lol so I don't have an example for this.

As a child though, I didn't know about reverse engineering..back then I used to doodle a comic on my note book in class because I was bored..I got the girl sitting next to me addicted to my comic strip XDDD and she would bug me to find out what happens in the story next..but the thing is..I never really knew what would happen until I sat down and doodled it..it was a satisfying experience....it feels like the story has a life of its own...anyway, I never got around to finishing the comic in the end (maybe because eventually I started paying attention in class XD)..so for all you know it may have ended badly XDDDDD. Like I said though, if I were to write fiction now I would reverse engineer the story. The serendipity from an aimless writing process is nice and all..but I do think the odds of it turning out badly is quite high and I prefer to play my odds better than that lol.

All the best for your exam! You don't need photographic memory..just geek out on the subject as much as you geek out on wdtfs and you'll be fine XDDDD

Nora

If you know him, he criticises LOR for being a black and white kind of story, where the good guys win and the bad guys die (and bad guys are just bad for the sake of being so).. this is what David and Dan are doing, everything that George critsies!!

Yeah black and white stories are boring. I need my (more than 50) shades of grey XDDD

Foxy Lady

Joking aside, the position doesn't matter since the issue is clear. But I believe, both failed to see "where" one is at. Since "context" of the writer is important in any writing. The way I understand it, Orange was talking about the "journey" of writing a story. That, there are writers who goes through in the story along with their characters. They think, see, hear, taste, smell, touch and feel as their characters. As I may put it, they gave a little of themselves.One good example is Anne Rice' Lestat in the Vampire Chronicles. The 7th installation was recently released. I started reading it since I was in highschool.(damn, I'm old...hehe) Anne Rice in one of her "talks" mentioned that the ending is not absolute. They changed it to give "justice" to what the characters had gone through. So, if the ending ends well, serendipity it is.

Yeah I was talking about the "journey" in writing, the writing process so to speak. But Nora was also not sidetracking from the issue when she said just because we know the ending it does not necessarily mean we compromise on the creative process for the plot leading to that ending and I agree with her. It is the more logical way to write after all. It's just that while I believe in reverse engineering, I also see beauty in coming up with a good story without it.

last edited at Aug 7, 2017 10:17PM

Orange

That is such a cute story. XD Do you still draw comic strips from time to time?

If I ever were to write something, I would come up with the ending beforehand as well, just so I can ensure it makes sense.

All the best for your exam! You don't need photographic memory..just geek out on the subject as much as you geek out on wdtfs and you'll be fine XDDDD

Haha, thanks Orange. It's actually 4 exams... But that's finals week! XD

I would definitely take a class solely on WDTFS or a class on a subject that would cover it in its curriculum. I think Nora89 and Foxy lady would ace that class. I would be happy hearing them discuss it. :)

I do geek out on this manhwa. XD If I ever were to meet Team Gaji in real life... I would completely fangirl and they are some of the few people I would do so with.

last edited at Aug 7, 2017 11:12PM

momonosuke

┌∩┐ ┌∩┐ ┌∩┐

Jpeg

That is such a cute story. XD Do you still draw comic strips from time to time?

Hahaha not anymore. I feel like growing up kills some of the creative cells in my body XDD

I would definitely take a class solely on WDTFS or a class on a subject that would cover it in its curriculum. I think Nora89 and Foxy lady would ace that class. I would be happy hearing them discuss it. :)

I think in this class, Nora would be one of those insufferable, irritating classmates who would remember stuff without putting in much effort. We should be strategic about this and sit next to her to peep on her answer sheet when sitting for a test XDDDD

I actually discussed your side since it is not the usual way of writing. Just because it is different, it is wrong. There are a lot of accidental inventions, formulas and endings that had never been thought of in the first place when those inventors, mathematicians, writers started to journey with a finality in mind. Take Archimedes. :)

Indeed. The discovery of penicillin.. although now we are abusing our antibiotics too much =.=

I was reading the posts last night and I was tempted to comment but I restrained myself.

There's no need to restrain yourself...Oh...maybe you didn't want to kill Sia ue? XDDDDD

As long as our hearts remain true, it will never be lost. It will have the happy ending it seeks.

Haha I sure hope so. Well, man proposes the higher power disposes...

last edited at Aug 8, 2017 2:40AM

Should I wake up at 6am to read the raw or 9am to read the translation. Decision decision...

Should I wake up at 6am to read the raw or 9am to read the translation. Decision decision...

Don't bother waking up. I heard there's a leak about the next chapter in hiatus.

Orange, I didn't say you were right alone nor the other was sidetracking. I wrote this,
I actually discussed your side since it is not the usual way of writing. Just because it is different, it is wrong. There are a lot of accidental inventions, formulas and endings that had never been thought of in the first place when those inventors, mathematicians, writers started to journey with a finality in mind. Take Archimedes. :)

Hello from the other siiiiiiiiiiide

hehehe XD

Hello from the other siiiiiiiiiiide

I must have called a thousand timessssssssssssss...XDDD

momonosuke

you are also one of those people who go around destroying life!
See, that's the reason I don't go around reading leak or guessing how the producers decide on certain thing. I like to eat the food and not look at the kitchen. If I absolutely have to look at the kitchen, then I will do so after I finish my delicious food. Do that in reverse order and you may have a hard time enjoying the meal. You are ruined, girl. Ruined!

honey, are you one of those who go searching for analysis and reviews then complain about the spoilers ? XD.. knowing the type of the writer helps in not setting my expectations realistically.

Orange

Yeah black and white stories are boring. I need my (more than 50) shades of grey XDDD

hahaha.. that lady writer ruined this colour for me with her overly pornographic story. (WTH, am I actually complaining about porno. content !!)

I think in this class, Nora would be one of those insufferable, irritating classmates who would remember stuff without putting in much effort. We should be strategic about this and sit next to her to peep on her answer sheet when sitting for a test XDDDD

hahahahha, only if you could tolerate my wite out and my hand writing XD

Jpeg
just concentrate on your exams, you will do well and the Manhwa will be waiting for you.