What's the time limit on these? A few years? What do you think.

I think it will always be a useful tag, since there will always be people who haven't seen the source material. When you see the tag, you can make the decision to read it anyway, or hold off in case you intend to read/watch/play the source material at some point.

I don't see anything negative about the tag, and I think it serves its purpose well.

last edited at Feb 4, 2017 11:18AM

I agree, it's a useful warning. I think it'd be unfair to expect spoilers to no longer be spoilers to people, just because some time has passed. The tag is also a good indicator that you'd need to know of certain elements of the source material to perhaps understand the context the work is referring to.

But why are you reading a work based on something you haven't read if you don't want spoilers? Like, at what point does a Sailor Moon doujin stop needing a spoiler tag. Can't really go tagging something spoilers for a 20 year old anime.

Personally, I don't mind the tag itself, although I believe it's mostly useful as a warning while the source material is currently running, or for a few months afterwards. It doesn't hurt anything by having it there, but it's not tremendously useful since nobody really searches for stuff based on it being a spoiler.

Isn't that up to people themselves to decide what they want to read, though? I'm sure many read doujins for work they aren't familiar with, simply because it seems cute, or has good art.

There is no need to retroactively go back and tag everything, but there is no need to refrain from tagging new additions either, whether the source material is old or not. The spoiler tag is there as a warning, just like the violence and rape tags. I personally don't think "people should know by now" is enough reason to refrain from tagging something. After all, this is a yuri site, and there is still the yuri tag.

I totes used the tag to find a Madoka doujin I've read but forgotten about before
It was pretty useful, given that there are like 350 doujins, and most titles are pretty forgettable = =
But yeaah it's pretty much a warning
Sometimes I read stuff out of curiosity tbh, or interest in works I haven't gotten around to check out yet, but still feel drawn to the characters/ships. Not all doujins are spoilerish after all, but some are, so it helps when I'm curious, but do want to refrain from being spoiled

last edited at Feb 4, 2017 12:55PM

There is need however not to tag them in the future. Take the two tag requests made today for spoiler. One was for the Madoka Rebellion Mami x Nagisa doujin just translated/uploaded, and one was for a Sailor Moon doujin published in 1995 and uploaded in 2009. If one tag request is approved, then why should I reject the other? You say there's no need to retroactively go back and tag them, but people are gonna request them to be tagged as such.

And of course, the big case to use for comparison is Madoka. Spoiler: Mami dies in the first few episodes of Madoka. This was intended to be a big surprise, and it was at the time, but now it's one of the most famous anime moments of all time. At the time, it almost certainly would have been tagged for the first months, but should it be tagged now? It would be a bit absurd to continue tagging them as such even now, considering the casual nature of it. It's things like this which is why I think the tag needs a expiration date.

last edited at Feb 4, 2017 1:04PM

So the fact that I haven't seen Madoka is irrelevant, because I was probably spoiled elsewhere already? I don't think that's a very compelling argument.

If spoilers are only relevant for a few months after release, I and others who read raws could flood the forum with spoilers for series with heavily delayed releases, such as Virgins' Empire.

Simply put, I don't think time takes away from the fact that something is a spoiler. The movie Psycho was released in 1960, and to this day, people still say "I won't give away the ending, you should watch it yourself". Something being old doesn't take away the fact that new people are still experiencing it for the first time.

So the fact that I haven't seen Madoka is irrelevant, because I was probably spoiled elsewhere already? I don't think that's a very compelling argument.

If spoilers are only relevant for a few months after release, I and others who read raws could flood the forum with spoilers for series with heavily delayed releases, such as Virgins' Empire.

That's a weak comparison, as people can't actually read Virgins' Empire, which is why flinging spoilers around isn't a good idea. People can easily watch Madoka, and could do so pretty much instantly after it came out.

Can watch and have watched are not the same, though.

Can watch and have watched are not the same, though.

I think is easily available in English is a more useful metric. Makoka is, un-posted chapters of Virgin's Empire aren't.

My point was that just because I have known about something for months, it doesn't mean everyone else have as well. Whether that is because of a language barrier, or because they simply haven't seen/read/played it should be irrelevant. A spoiler is a spoiler, whether the source material is easily available in English or not.

last edited at Feb 4, 2017 2:30PM

Yes, but the difference between this and a M Night Shyamalan film is that these are derivative works. It's understandable that you would sometimes read a doujin based on something you haven't seen, because of the artist behind it or you just like the looks of it, or just because! But if the thing it's based on is 4 years old, easily watchable for you and the doujin has spoilers, then ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Isn't the point of tags to let people know what the work contains, though? "Fuck it, it's your problem" doesn't quite seem like the right way to go...

The usual argument with tags is that certain tags can be spoilers in themselves, e.g. reversal, supernatural, or foiled rape attempt, so I find it the argument that spoiler tag itself is superflous to be rather ironic.

It seems to me that the argument here is that "it's bothersome to tag things", rather than whether there is a reason to or not.

Honestly, if it's a doujin at all, you should be walking in assuming spoilers of some sort. Like isn't it a spoiler in Love Live that Eli joins the group? You don't learn that until several episodes in, after all. And yet you've got loads of doujins that have her there, to say nothing of the ones that reference the little bird crisis. Or how about Strike Witches doujins where the humanoid Neuroi appears?

It's part of the territory, and risking spoilers is a standard chance you take when you read doujins.

I mean, they should know that it contains stuff from a show they haven't seen. If they choose to read it, fine, cool. The fact they read it should be spoiler enough, although new stuff with significant ones should be spoilered, absolutely.

It's not bothersome to tag things, it would take 1 second to add the tag. it's that at some point it becomes unnecessary.

Madoka is, again, the best example of the problems involved in the tag. Imagine if the spoiler tag had existed when Madoka first aired and the doujins were produced/uploaded, and when Mami died, we tagged an upload with Spoiler. Fair enough, that's cool. But when does that stop. That is still a spoiler even now, 6 years after the anime aired. That moment is talked about in so many doujins and fanart, comedic and dramatic. Does that mean even now, we would be tagging doujins that mention it (and other moments from the series) with spoiler? No, that'd be complete overkill, and what, half the Madoka doujins on the site would be tagged with it now.

It's only really when stuff like new series, new movies, etc, that a thing like it should get tagged spoiler again, which is where the main question comes into play: it's not so much "should they eventually stop being tagged", as much as it is "when should they".

last edited at Feb 4, 2017 3:06PM

Personally, I think it should be more about if it is a plot twist or other significant event, or not. Relating back to your examples, knowing that Eli joins the group would generally not ruin the experience for anyone, but knowing about a plot twist like a character death can definitely ruin the experience for a lot of people. And like my own example earlier with the yuri tag, does it really matter if it becomes a common tag? YouChika's First Kiss has both character names and "kiss" in the title, but still has the Chika x You and yuri tags.

I am 49 years old. I am just now getting into anime.

Never seen an episode of Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

Never seen an episode of Sailor Moon, for that matter.

My entire exposure to those franchises has been via derivative works.

I don't know who Mami is. Thanks to this thread, though, I know she's dead.

Not everybody shares your subcultural touchstones.

Sorry about that then, but this is a anime/manga site, and that is pretty well known, comparable to Rosebud on a movie based site. It's something that shouldn't rly need to be avoided talking about.

last edited at Feb 4, 2017 4:11PM

Mm. In re-reading my post above, I realize that I did not make the point I was trying to make, and instead made some other point entirely.

It happens.

I am in agreement with you vis-a-vis discussing well-known spoilers.

I just don't see the harm in adding the tags.

Like, what is the real, actual, legit problem that is created by adding the tags? Is there one?

And here's another girl who's around half a century old and never seen Madoka. (What!? Mami dies early!?! ...Wait, who's Mami anyway?) But I did see Sailor Moon one or two decades ago. And when I found myself discussing it in a bookstore with a random clerk who only watched part of it, i was careful to avoid spoilers.

Well I don't usually worry too much about spoilers for myself and routinely read the spoilers in discussions. But I still think it's useful to have the tag on relevant doujins.

Edit: I don't know whether I'd bother adding the tag to that old Sailor Moon doujin either, but if it's been requested and I think it could be a real spoiler for someone who hasn't seen it, I might. That's assuming I know the series in question well enough to tell. If it's an old series that I don't know, I definitely wouldn't take the time to research it

last edited at Feb 4, 2017 10:11PM

And here's another girl who's around half a century old and never seen Madoka. (What!? Mami dies early!?! ...Wait, who's Mami anyway?) But I did see Sailor Moon one or two decades ago. And when I found myself discussing it in a bookstore with a random clerk who only watched part of it, i was careful to avoid spoilers.

Yeah, but the big difference is you were discussing it with someone. That is certainly different from reading a derivative work based on the thing. I think theres a big difference between dropping a spoiler for something in the comments of a random Youtube video and seeing a spoiler in a fan-fiction: one is something you go into presumably with knowledge of the source.

If I went to a random thread on like, IMDB, and saw a big spoiler for Walking Dead, then damn. If I go onto a Walking Dead forum and see a spoiler for Walking Dead, than what's to be expected?

drpepperfan posted:

Sorry about that then, but this is a anime/manga site, and that is pretty well known, comparable to Rosebud on a movie based site. It's something that shouldn't rly need to be avoided talking about.

They make a good point though. Just because a spoiler is old does not mean everyone should be expected to know about it. If you're only just now getting into something it's still a spoiler. I've even seen people get spoiled on bits of Star Wars of all things despite it being a 40ish year old series simply because they're too young for it to have been extremely popular when they were younger and they simply haven't gotten around to watching it yet. Spoilers are always spoilers and if it's not in a place where those spoilers would be expected knowledge (ie: That Mami spoiler in an actual Madoka-related thread) then it should be tagged as such simply out of respect for those who might not have had a chance to see the source material just yet.

Fiiiiiiiiine, but that's really getting away from the focus here.