Konetsu :
http://pastebin.com/HEYvrC97

esn:

This event makes me think that it's only going to last 4-5 chapters.

Well, it hasn't even been in every issue of Hirari since it was published. Which tells us a few things. Morinaga herself is not very invested in this story, or she would have put forth the effort to get another chapter out. Which is probably the same reason the writing is sub par.

It always seemed to me that Morinaga preferred very feminine characters reflecting a refreshing lack of gender roles, so I was surprised by the addition of a story with a boyish girl and the "boyfriend" terminology.

This, so much of this. Another reason why this story is bad.

NorthernDruid:
http://pastebin.com/750VbXWp

Pastebin is free, I recommend you use it.

What a mean-spirited debate. Seriously, this makes 4chan look civil.

last edited at Dec 31, 2013 8:44AM

@NorthernDruid - thanks for clarifying.

@csx - hehehe. you really are a hoot. keep up the good fight!

Kaede claims she's in love with Fujiwara

I hope this isn't nit-picky, but I've seen a couple or so times so far in the discussion. The name of Miu's (possibly ex) friend is Kaori, not Kaede. This makes no difference at all to what anyone has said about her. It just jars me a little.

They also keep saying "boyfriend"

And yes, I think it's a huge point that both Miu and Kaori say they want Fujiwara as their BOYFRIEND. That tells me that at the time they first said it, that neither one was thinking of it as an actual romantic relationship, even though Kaori clearly believes that is what she is after. This even though Kaori was crying.

Sorry I hadn't read the forth page of the discussion yet when I posted this. Reading it now.

last edited at Dec 31, 2013 10:40AM

keep up the good fight!

Thanks, I try. Though I repeat myself a lot people people read like, one post, and rage it's not something positive about a series that they like.

And yes, I think it's a huge point that both Miu and Kaori say they want Fujiwara as their BOYFRIEND. That tells me that at the time they first said it, that neither one was thinking of it as an actual romantic relationship, even though Kaori clearly believes that is what she is after. This even though Kaori was crying.

As I said in one of my Pastebin links. Miu's feelings are clearly being presented as serious through the stories perspective. This is obvious as of the last page of chapter one. The same page where she also refers to Fujiwara as a prince (a.k.a. a male). So if we're to take Miu's feelings as serious even though she refers to her as a boy there is no excuse to think the other girls are not serious as well.

Don't get me wrong, I think the story is decent enough. It's just nothing in comparison to Morinaga's other works.

And yes, I think it's a huge point that both Miu and Kaori say they want Fujiwara as their BOYFRIEND. That tells me that AT THE TIME THEY FIRST SAID IT, that neither one was thinking of it as an actual romantic relationship, even though Kaori clearly believes that is what she is after. This even though Kaori was crying.

On page 26 of chapter one. At this point, she is, and has been, thinking of Fujiwara as a boyfriend. At this point, she is also difinitely not thinking of a romantic relationship. Deeper feelings may be starting to stir around this time, but she has not yet added them into what she is thinking at least for another page. Also, the story implies she started thinking of Fujiwara as a boyfriend back on page 18 of chapter one. At that point she most definitely did not harbor any romantic feelings.

last edited at Dec 31, 2013 11:00AM

At that point she most definitely did not harbor any romantic feelings.

No, she definitely did. That's the whole point of the last page. It's fairly conclusive about it, too.

The next page. As I just said. Actually, that's two pages after.

I will acknowledge that a girl might conceivably think of a girl as a boyfriend while still desiring a fully intimate relationship from the beginning, but that does not seem to be the case here.

last edited at Dec 31, 2013 11:11AM

Hmmm? I'm confused as to what you are trying to get at. What does the page number how to do with it?

That's the last page, and she still referring to Fujiwara as a boy, and blushing implies romantic feelings.

Don't get me wrong, I think the story is decent enough. It's just nothing in comparison to Morinaga's other works.

ok, so what would you compare it to? or do you believe its not worth comparing to anything?

You may have missed the caps I added to the quote of myself. I'll repeat it here. That tells me that AT THE TIME THEY FIRST SAID IT, that neither one was thinking of it as an actual romantic relationship.

What I mean is that when she STARTS thinking of Fujiwara as a boyfriend, she is not AT THAT TIME harboring any romantic feeling for her.

Edit: By this argument, Kaori, having been thinking of Fujiwara as a potential boyfriend for a long time, might indeed have ended up by now developing deeper romantic feelings. But probably not, since girls school or no, most of the girls would be straight.

last edited at Dec 31, 2013 11:25AM

NorthernDruid:
http://pastebin.com/217200Nd

so what would you compare it to?

Mmm... I'd put it some where at the level between First Love Sisters and Gokujou Drops.

You may have missed the caps I added to the quote of myself. I'll repeat it here. That tells me that AT THE TIME THEY FIRST SAID IT, that neither one was thinking of it as an actual romantic relationship.

Yes, I got that. But I'm not seeing the relevance. She is STILL referring to her as a boy as of the end of chapter one, when she developed the romantic feelings. Thus countering acting anything she said before that. Because the end of the chapter shows the most developed status of their relationship.

And my point being; if we are to consider Miu's feelings serious, we also have to consider all the other girls feelings as serious.

Ok, this is part of human nature. Once you start thinking of, or referring to, someone one way, you tend to keep doing so regardless of the changing situation, especially when you are not consciously thinking about it. Have you ever known someone who changed their name? Even with people consciously trying to use the new name, they will still often be called by the old name for quite some time. The person themselves will accidentally use the old name sometimes years later. When it's something that you are not consciously trying to change, it is even worse. That is what happens in a case like this. "Boyfriend" is already set in the mind and not readily levered out.

Except she didn't say 'boyfriend', she said 'prince' which is still a male adjective. This isn't a case of name association, because they are different words.

Sex association is even stronger (far stronger) than name association.

Also, she said boyfriend at the bottom of page 26, and has been thinking of her in general like that (as a male replacement) since 18.

last edited at Dec 31, 2013 11:49AM

Sex association is even

Not in the context you're using it, though. Gender roles and the names you associate with them are not concurrent. Gender roles come from you conditioned memory, while names come from your experiential/learned memory.

But even if they was the case, she did not personally know Fujiwara long enough to develop a conditioned reflex to consider her male. She only first started thinking of her as a male partially though chapter one. And between then and the end of the chapter is only a few days at most.

@csx
Well, I get where you are coming from, though I can't agree. I've said my piece in full.

I'll say this: your arguments have made me think more deeply about where I am coming from, as well as about your position. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion, but I'm going to leave it off here. Beside, I've already started my next project, and don't want to take too much time on the forums.

At that point she most definitely did not harbor any romantic feelings.

No, she definitely did. That's the whole point of the last page. It's fairly conclusive about it, too.

You're clearly investing a lot into this story. Maybe you ought to go write a thesis on it and get back to us in a couple years. I'm sure we'll all be waiting on the edge of our seats.

You can quantify and explore all options that may be availible to one individual.

Did you forget we are talking about a large group? If so, that would explain a lot. Listen, Because so many girls confess some of the HAVE to land on "blatantly obvious" point of the spectrum. And, because of those people being examples Fujiwara would know the feelings are serious.

Since you classify teary-eyedness/crying as the base for shyness.

No, I put 'shyness' on the same spectrum as teary eyed/crying. See first point about large groups.

Go look up more about Game Theory, and then you'll get my point. Predicting behavior of large groups is simpler than that of a single person. But, both can be done. Also, google 'spectrum'.

Well, I get where you are coming from, though I can't agree. I've said my piece in full.

Fair enough. Have fun... I should really be working on my current project, too.

You're clearly investing a lot into this story. Maybe you ought to go write a thesis on it and get back to us in a couple years. I'm sure we'll all be waiting on the edge of our seats.

Not really. this is very basic information processing that does not require much thought. Though, I might be more offended by your remark if you were smart enough to realize you don't need to quote a whole post, and subsequently spam the page with the same image.

(probably around 9-12).

I'd say it's safe to assume it's more then that. We already have nine girls actively gushing over her. And they are meant to represent the student body. Fujiwara also implies it happens a lot, and she's not a first year student.

You could do with structuring your... theories/allegories/not-sure-what-it's-called-really/constructs more clearly from the beginning

You're right, I should. But, I kind of have a habit of forgetting it include the obvious parts of the mental process involved.

But, yes. Happy New Year.

uh oh bitch alert

Happy new year guys!

@csx:

Your argument was actually great, and I enjoyed reading it. I'll admit I was wrong. This actually has me thinking a lot more about the story, maybe a little too much, but it is. I say keep doing what you're doing.

@esn:

Damn. You've made me need to reread Kase-san yet again.

@esn:

Damn. You've made me need to reread Kase-san yet again.

I saw the next chapter on YP and am excited for the release. I felt obligated to read it again. Kase is still the hottest lead.

I do appreciate the "calculating female" character in this story, though, who is actually kind of an airhead. Kind of like a failed Sugi. Since both the characters are kind of ditzy/dense, I'd imagine that it's going to be a little messy before the conclusion.

Your argument was actually great, and I enjoyed reading it.

Thanks for saying so. I always enjoy a good debate, and encouraging people to think more.

But, you too, have a good New Years

Promising indeed, can't wait for the next chapter.