Isn't mikan just mandarins?

Looking East posted:

From what I can tell, the author probably was likely initially writing intentional lesbian subtext into her story because some of it is pretty on the nose, and for one reason or another she got pressured to stop doing that perhaps either due fan responses or somebody higher up with her publisher decided that lesbian love stories don't fit the publications image and target demographic.

From what people said, it was that she didn't mean it to be subtext and didn't like people seeing it as such, so she made sure people won't be able to ship those character anymore. Even if she had to ruin the story by introducing totally artificial and unnatural romance that came out of nowhere. Especially since after knowing each other for like few days/weeks the guy proposes and girl accepts. If she really was forced to do it, then fine. But if she really went out of her way to kill a ship, because she disliked people even considering that option, I'm sure you can see why it would piss so many people?

last edited at Sep 14, 2018 9:48AM

Nya-chan posted:

Well, putting sex on the same level as mowing the lawn is taking away a lot from the emotional aspect of it. It's a bit overkill.

I mean some people may be able to put it on the same level, but that's a bit sad.

Well, it is only sad and overkill when you personally value it that much. I'm not saying sex isn't important, emotional and all that stuff, but let's face it. By the end of the day it is just 1 of our most basic needs, next to food and sleep. That's why brothels exist. Some people just don't mind casual sex, as long as they get to feel good. Some just go 1 step further and see nothing wrong with having sex in exchange for something. If everyone valued sex equally, term sex-friends wouldn't exist. I have nothing against people who think more of sex, but that doesn't give them right to condemn people who don't.

last edited at Sep 11, 2018 9:59AM

The most funny thing in all of this is, it's not like Kouhai demands her to pay for her visit until that point. It wasn't "have sex with me to pay for the months you spend here". It was a offer only about future. Kouhai pretty much given up on all the compensation she rightfully owned for the time Senpai already spend there and only ask her to pay for ability to keep staying here. Had she said "You stayed here for months, so now it's time you pay me back. You have to sleep with me." I'd agree it would be forcing her into sex and giving her no choice, which would be pretty rape'y. Still somewhat justified, but I wouldn't defend her as much, because here taking advantage of senpai's position would be much more blatant. There was no prior agreement senpai has to have sex with her for being able to stay.

snowangel526 posted:

I read the whole argument you wrote Nevri. Thanks for writing what I am too lazy to write.

You're welcome x3

last edited at Sep 10, 2018 8:55AM

Timea817 posted:

For the people with sound mind and morals, you agree to sex because you desire it, not because they give you an ultimatum or in exchange for goods and services.

How nice of you to say I'm screwed in the head. I simply don't see anything wrong with what Kouhai did. I clearly won't convince you, so I won't even bother. Not that I'd care to after you insulted me. Also news flash, morality is not a objective thing. There is pretty much as much nuance to it as there is people. But I guess comprehending that I'm not a prude like you and I don't get triggered at slightest implication of rape or suggestion of sex for benefit is too much for close-minded asshole like you.

We could talk about prostitutes but for one, senpai isn't one

Good thing you don't have to be a prostitute to pay with your body for something. Talking about missing the point.

last edited at Sep 9, 2018 8:01PM

Altair posted:

Holy shit, Nevri. In that case, then you can kick out your tenant. You cannot rape them. Coercion is illegal. And the two instances ARE equivalent acts of coercion, legally.

Lol wut. They are not. She is not a damn landlord. She is not renting house for people. She let friend stay until she finds a job, but after few months of freeloading on her place, forcing her to pay for senpai and in general not doing anything to change her situation, MC had enough and decided it is time she actually give her something in return. And nobody nowhere said it has to be money. She owns the damn place, she sets the rules. There is no law anywhere saying "if you let people stay at your place, they can only pay you with money". If what she asked her to do was something like cleaning or cooking, you would be throwing a tantrum too how she can't demand it? Nobody would even blink. But because she asked for sex, she suddenly is evil. When you rent a house, room, whatever you sign a specific contract that tells you how you pay. So if your landlord then suddenly comes and tells you, you have to have sex instead, that is abuse and you have legal rights to sue them. If you didn't pay for months and landlord came and told you, you have to leave now, but I'm nice and can let you stay, if you have sex with me, then you would say it is coercion too? You didn't pay the damn rent anyway, so you're in no position to make any demands or complains. When your friend keeps their lazy ass for months, makes you spending money on them and you decided it's time they pay up and ask for sex, that is up to you to decided. And honestly, do you think senpai has money to pay for rent at the moment? When she didn't work for months and is leeching off MC? Had MC actually ask for money, senpai would have no option to pay and would be kick out. She would end up on the street without any options. It would be exactly the same situation, but people somehow don't accuse MC of extortion. MC is demanding money from senpai on the spot, without giving her any time to get it and forces her to leave if she doesn't pay. That is totally abuse of her power!

The lengths you guys are going to defend someone who by story itself is considered a trash, is really unbelievable. She didn't bother to put any effort into work, because she know she can always rely on her friend to freeload on her place and not do anything. She specifically has no intention of working, as long as someone can support her. MC was enabling her that, so senpai felt like she had no reason to even look for work, despite MC clearly asking her to find one. MC simply finally decided to stop doing it and ask for something in return for her kindness. Actually, had she not been attracted to senpai in the first place, she would kick her out probably after a month max. And again, you say (since supposedly she has no other friends and most likely no savings to rent a place until finding a job) kicking her out on the street without money would be better than giving her a option to pay a rent, she actually can afford. I'm seriously lost how all of this makes MC the most terrible person here.

In this story, it was just a dramatic plot device, that's it. But in real life, you're proposing it's okay to rape someone if they owe you something. And an ultimatum is not a free choice, it's still rape.

Good thing, she doesn't rape her then. And yea if she asked for money, it would be ultimatum too. Do you want to say it would be unfair of her too to ask for money immediately when senpai clearly has nothing and kick her out then? MC didn't care about money. She wanted to have sex with senpai. So she asked for something she actually wanted instead of money she didn't really need.

When a landlord intentionally rents to women that they know won't be able to pay rent, then demands sexual favors from them so they can stay, it's not okay.

Rotlf. Intentionally? You all really love to twist it just so you can say MC is a terrible person. She wanted to help friend out. She let her stay for months without asking for anything. But senpai had no intention of changing it and actually was blatantly abusing her good will, because it suited her and she never even considered MC my get feed up with it. In fact, MC only went for it when senpai straight told her, she doesn't really care about real relationship. As long as she can find a rich person willing to support her so she doesn't have to work, she is fine with it.

And of course everyone would support asking for rent, that's what you can do in a civilized society. You cannot demand sex as payment, for anything. Ever. EVER.

Said who? Show me a law saying money is only acceptable way to pay for anything and having sex as a payment is illegal.

You all are so damn pure. There is nothing wrong with paying with your body, when you're ok with it. It doesn't cheapen it or anything. It actually make it valuable. Not everyone consider it shameful or something. Senpai clearly didn't have enough pride to refuse, since it let her keep her current life style.

Timea817 posted:

You are absolutely right. Some people just refuse to be civilized. Even though kohai calls her senpai trash, it's the kohai who is detestable.

Yea, because giving something to someone for free is civilized. But actually asking for something in return is is uncivilized. She give senpai a deal, which she agreed to. That is definition of civilized. She has no obligation to let her stay in her home for free.

We can't know if the senpai was doing any work around the house, but it's clear she is not suited for the Japanese workforce.

Lol. It isn't that senpai can't get a job, she doesn't want one. She makes no effort to even trying doing the work she do get. It isn't that she is not suitable to Japanese workforce. She is simply lazy and wants to be taken care off.

it's usually the parents who step in to help in these cases (while still complaining that they have a no good child), we don't get any context about senpai's family background.
Urgh, I just hate this whole concept of if you can't get a job you are worthless.

Sure just because you can't get a job, it doesn't make you worthless. Still world is not charity, so if you can't support yourself, no one else will. Nobody will hold your hand your entire life. And yes, at first parents can support you, but you can't expect them to simply take care of you your entire life. At some point they won't be able to and then what? It is fine to rely on them in the time of need, but you can't expect them to do everything for you. And that is also the main issue. Parents would feel obligated to help you no matter what, because you're family etc. MC is not senpai's mom. She has no obligation to provide her with home and food/money indefinitely. And you also give me next argument. Unless senpai's parents were feed up with her and saw her as a trash she is, there was no reason she couldn't just go to them to stay for the time being. But, maybe, just maybe, she was fully aware if she had done that, they would nag her non-stop to find a work and not let her do as she pleases, so she chose MC's place specifically because she knew, she can just ignore her complains and abuse their relationship. Again, how that makes MC the most terrible person here escapes me...

5Cats posted:

Are you serious? A drunken person cannot give consent, it's rape by definition.

Where exactly it shows Senpai being drunk? Also just because you drink a bit, it doesn't mean you can't give a consent. You can't only do it, when you are actually unaware of what's going on. Yes, it is hard to recognize when someone gives you actual consent and when they are drunk, but drinking any amount of alcohol doesn't magically make you free of consequences. In fact people who fully consciously agreed to sex during party and then regretted it next day and cried rape, are a real issue, because you can't really prove it one way of another.

They are both horrible people: vain, shallow, selfish, egocentric, stupid too.

Please do point me out instances where MC is shown to be either of those.

last edited at Sep 9, 2018 7:18AM

MarqFJA87 posted:

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/otokonoko_doushi_renai_chuu_ch03#15

... Since when was watashi "mainly feminine"?

Since always. Whenever possible males will refer to themselves as boku or ore and atashi is actually not used that often, so the pronoun females end up using the most is watashi. And yes, watashi is usually a neutral one, but when you use it outside of polite conversations, it suggest you're a girl or effeminate, because guys always use boku/ore.

Faust posted:

It'd be like... if you were a pretty clumsy employee and your boss went yo, if you don't sleep with me, I'll fire you.

The thing is, that would be abuse of your power, because that is not something you are contracted to do. On the other hand, MC has no obligation to keep senpai at her home. She is the one making rules. Which as far as we know, they never established and despite MC telling senpai to go look for work everyday, she doesn't do it and doesn't listen to her at all. So honestly it is more like collecting a debt than even giving her a option. Senpai didn't pay her debt for months, so MC reached the point where she had enough of senpai bs and told her to pay it all at once or leave. When you don't pay your debt for months, when debt collector shows at you door, they don't give you time either. They don't care w/e you have money at the moment or not. You had enough time to find a job and pay for it, but you didn't.

And fine, even if you want to say it was abusive, that she used her power. Well senpai did it too. She abused her friendship with MC and MC's good will to get a free staying place and didn't bother to do anything in return. Hell, she didn't even show any signs of actually planning to stop abusing it. In fact she pretty much did it with premeditation, because she liked the way things are. So if anything, MC simply decided to abuse her back and get something in return for all her hassle.

And all in all, she had choice. She could find some other place to stay and/or actually try working again. Is MC her only friend? Or MC is only person who actually allows her to freeload at her place? The point is, the work analogy doesn't work, because senpai wasn't simply clumsy or couldn't do her job well, she simply put no effort, so she reap what she sow. In the end it isn't like she really dislike this arrangement and is actually perfectly fine with it, so who cares? For someone who was supposedly blackmailed, she is being pretty smartass and snarky when MC again tells her to find job.

last edited at Sep 9, 2018 12:24AM

DBR posted:

This is the best kind of Naoko Kodama story, where both of the leads are kinda awful people so that you don't have to feel bad for either of them.

What is awful about MC? Randomly insult a character like that is awful.

Was about to comment on that. Senpai is using MC's good will to freeload and doesn't pay for anything. MC should have kicked senpai out ages ago. She simply finally did what she should have done long ago and asked senpai to pay her back. Senpai could simply just not to do it and find other place/actually take care of herself. Instead she willingly accepted the offer and actually seems ok with it. Had MC not give her a option, MC would just kick her out and she would end up on the street anyway. This way she at least had chance to stay. Had MC asked for rent instead, nobody would even think twice about it. There would be no suggesting she is awful or anything. Hell, people would probably said, "she finally did something about it" and applauded her. But because she asked for sex, she is suddenly terrible person by blackmailing senpai for some reason.

last edited at Sep 9, 2018 12:28AM

schuyguy posted:

I don't see the couple in Cocytus as having much hope at all. Shiina betrayed Kuroneko and then took advantage of her. Her fear of being bullied and her guilt about what she did stand between her and any real relationship with Kuroneko.

Maybe there's a possibility for things to improve from where it leaves off, but my reading of Cocytus is that Shiina will never overcome her cowardice and never move past her betrayal. I think that's the message of the ending, with Kuroneko being honest and open, and Shiina standing there unable to say a thing.

I seems to be in minority here, but I saw it ending with possibility of a relationship, but not really a happy one. Not immediately at least. Shiina showed some grow, by actually going back to talking to Kuroneko and wanting to end what she started, aka sex. But she still didn't fully abandoned her coward self. She still somehow thought, her relationship with Kuroneko could stay a secret. But then Kuroneko confessed to her and Shiina's delusions crumbled. She was happy and wanted it, but she was also fully aware, dating Kuroneko won't be easy for her and she will have to overcome a lot of hardships. There is no way she could hid it from others if they were to date. So she should feel happy, but all she could do at the moment is cry. It is still up to interpretation whatever they would date or not, but I don't think it is all hopeless.

sadhomu82 posted:

Plot twist: loli has already been molested off screen

I'm pretty sure in author's head they do it all the time.

Risamari posted:

This hurts my heart... I can relate by a few angst stories, but this one remembered something really painful to me.

"I like how Emi doesn't know how to handle her feelings towards Yuu".
"I like how she steals the guys that are interested in Yuu".

I can relate to that... One time, I fell in love so hard for my friend, I was anxious. We were in a circle of friends and there was this guy, who claimed to be my friend, and hers too. But one day they started kissing, even in front of me. I was really upset, he knew I loved her but he only cared about manipulating things around him. He didn't even liked her, and she too, she didn't liked him, but they often kissed.
So one day, I went crazy and invited him to a date, even tough I'm a lesbian. I forced him to a kiss, and a another, and a another one. I wanted to make him stop from wanting to kiss her, by wanting to kiss me, crazy huh? I even offered my body.

Or you can talk things over instead. Crazy, I know.

Blax posted:

They are going to publish this in France next month. I wish I knew this before buying the first 6 volume in english... Actually I'm surprised this of all thing got published here, considering how mittle yuri we get here

Pretty much same. We have less than 10 yuri works here and we got it of all things. I suppose it has wider appeal because it is about psychos killing each other.

Polioro posted:

So you don't mind reading it for free in english but you don't want to pay for it, understand...

Where I said I don't want to pay for it? I'd gladly pay for it, as long as it is published here. In fact, in this case I just bought volume 7 of Murcielago, because it is published here.

Polioro posted:

Polioro posted:

So....Yen Press is putting out the official English translations of Yen Press....they've now gotten to volume 7 ((and I think it's the physical copy)) which was the beginning of that Sakura arc I think??? But anyways,...chapters 56 to recent could be on sites like mangago and any other manga site by late this year or early-mid 2019 if all goes well....'til then, I'm just hanging out on the /u/ Murci thread on 4chan and looking at the raws of Arana (Murcielago spin-off)...

You could... Also... Buy the manga...
Maybe...
That's a good thing...
Just maybe...
Because the octave tome will go out in october...
Just, maybe, you know? Because, maybe, if CXC Scans stop scnalations it it's because they wanted people buy the manga.

That is assuming it is available in their country. U.S. is not entire world.

I'm not from the U.S and I can buy it easy in amazon.es. Almost all countries can buy it in their amazon site.

Well idk about others, but when I want to buy manga, I want to buy it in my native language. Not to mention having to pay shipping costs.

last edited at Sep 3, 2018 6:29PM

Polioro posted:

So....Yen Press is putting out the official English translations of Yen Press....they've now gotten to volume 7 ((and I think it's the physical copy)) which was the beginning of that Sakura arc I think??? But anyways,...chapters 56 to recent could be on sites like mangago and any other manga site by late this year or early-mid 2019 if all goes well....'til then, I'm just hanging out on the /u/ Murci thread on 4chan and looking at the raws of Arana (Murcielago spin-off)...

You could... Also... Buy the manga...
Maybe...
That's a good thing...
Just maybe...
Because the octave tome will go out in october...
Just, maybe, you know? Because, maybe, if CXC Scans stop scnalations it it's because they wanted people buy the manga.

That is assuming it is available in their country. U.S. is not entire world.

MrEngenious posted:

If there's any good stuff that we're totally oblivious to you can let us know through the upload requests. Thanks!

cough private messages cough

last edited at Sep 1, 2018 10:22PM

Serenata posted:

Ah! you mean you dropped Attack on Titan? can't be helped, this political arc is by far the worse of the series

I actually didn't mind it at all in manga and found it interesting.

... And it was rushed A LOT in the anime! lol, but is pretty much about to change drastically in the next two weeks.

I heard author actually works pretty close with anime and himself admitted this was the arc he felt turned out the worse, because of how dragged on and boring in places it was and supposedly anime was going to fix some of its issues, like pacing. I guess that is the reason why it was rushed in anime.

Marion Diabolito posted:

It is really hard to reconcile Renai Manga with the rest of her stuff, isn't it? That story wasn't just fluffy, it was awesomely fluffy and fully developed.

Did we read the same manga? Renai Manga is 90% angst and pretty much wasted potential. They spend half the manga on stupid misunderstanding, that could be solved with 1 conversation. There was barely any fluff in it. For crying out load, they didn't even get together in actual story, just vaguely implied it. You need to read bonus chapter for that. I'll never understand why people keep praising Renai Manga as that only good, happy series she made, when in fact it was full of drama and everything sorted out only at the very end. Pretty much like most of her works.

SuperSecretSpy posted:

DC3 July 22, 2018 6:34PM
the het tag remains a mystery to me to this day.

DC3 June 22, 2018 10:41PM
... a girl having feelings for a boy isn't het for me until they confess to each ...

You already answered yourself, precisely a month before you said that, ahaha

ISN'T
and also, my kind friend, can you remove my current username from your quote as i'm planning to change it since i'm hiding from an evil het organization which has discovered my secret identity through this username.

The same way loving girl without confession is not yuri? Sorry pal, but it doesn't work like that. It isn't about expressing feelings, but what those feelings are. As long as character is lesbian and/or have feelings for other girl, that is yuri. The same way they don't have to accept their confession, for it to count as yuri. Soooo, you answered yourself 1 month ago.

last edited at Aug 28, 2018 10:48AM

Blastaar posted:

Also it's now confirmed that yes, there was a confession.

I hate to be that person by... we still have no fucking confirmation on that >.>

It's the opening pages:

"I told her my feelings, but I wasn't ready for what would happen."

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_unrequited_love_ch17#2

That's a replay of the confession scene. (Again, why we couldn't know that before this I do not know.)

Because drama, cliffhangers and forcing readers to stick to know what happened/what will happen. Welp I guess I skipped those to get faster into chapter. My bad I suppose. Still at least I was right before, so that is something I guess.

EDIT/ Yea that is the only page I skipped, cos I thought it was just some pointless narration. Just tells you about quality of writing, when the most important event in entire series is dropped just like that as if it was nothing.

last edited at Aug 27, 2018 10:43PM

Fucking finally, we learned something about past. I would care, if I didn't lost interest ages ago. I only read it, because I heard how much of a bitch mother is, and wow she is a big one. That being said, it is such cliche drama, it is getting boring. Parent goes to do w/e ignores family and then comes back as if nothing happened and inserts itself in mc's life. That is such typical way to write a bad parent and create sudden heavy drama. At least I have to give her credit, instead of being like "I have changed! I want to be be good parent now. It will be different! Believe me!" she doesn't give two fucks and still doesn't care about family at all. She is again doing it for her own selfish reasons and not care about what Uta has to say. And about her "child is parent's property" that is such bs thinking. Children don't choose to be born, it is you who make them and take responsibility of rising them. You can't expect anything in return, so guilt tripping them with "you have nothing without me" is such terrible thing to do.

last edited at Aug 28, 2018 10:36AM

It honestly don't even deserve amnesia tag. Experiencing partial memory loss around time of accident after receiving a heavy trauma to the head is normal. And she remembered everything like within a hour. And even the part it took in the story wasn't that important. She simply didn't remember what other girl said and assumed she agreed to date her. The same thing could be easily achieved by her twisting her words in one of her delusions and assuming she said ok. People focus way too much on amnesia thing, when in the end, it was pretty much irrelevant to the story.

last edited at Aug 26, 2018 12:50PM

I agree, technically there is no rule against 2 groups doing the same thing. Still there is good and bad way to go about this and Zärtlichkeit picked the wrong one imo.

morter posted:

Is there a joke/cultural reference that I'm missing?

The joke is that since guy is usually the one protecting, he is walking next to route so if anything happens, it is to him. Because they are both girls there really shouldn't be any reason for 1 walking over the other, but transgirl swapped placed, probably because she still felt like from 2 of them, she should be doing it. Other girl is like "why did you do it?" and she is probably like "it's nothing, don't think about it", but because she doesn't want her protecting her like that, when next car passes by she swapped places instead. And rinse and repeat (there is arrow back to panel 1, so they just keep on swapping places like that). Basically since they are both girls, neither has obligation to be protecting other, so whenever 1 swapped, other swap back. It's very simple, but kinda hard to explain...

Also it isn't just japan thing I think. Here guy is always supposed to walk next to traffic/danger as well.