Forum › What Does the Fox Say discussion
Aww Foxy, gotta say your writing looks so much cleaner when you are not restraining yourself or angry.
The ring of Sumin thrown together with the roses in chap. 10 is the ring thrown by Seju to Sungji in chap. 55. There was an inner inscription that Sungji didn't notice. Thus, her down disposition in chap. 89. :)
Hence, the need to talk as things will be justified and all characters not in wanting.
I give you A+ for imagination.
Short response: I don't believe it, but I cannot disprove it. We will have to wait and see.
Not so short response: This may be too realistic for a manhwa, but if you have ever worn a ring for just one full day, you will know it is extremely hard to mistake another ring with yours. The look, the weight, the texture and size are too unique to miss. But let's say the heat of the moment overshadows this. It has been awhile since the cheating incident, why hasn't Sungji brought it up? Let's say she brushes it aside because she does not want to remember the painful memory. When the moment comes to discuss it, who will she go to? Logically, she will go to Seju, the one who throws her the wrong ring. This won't achieve anything, so Sumin will have to be in the picture. Even you put Sumin, Sungji and Seju together with the ring on the table, will it achieve anything? It will just be like the birthday night with a ring instead of booze.
- For Sungji, she already knows those two have been together since high school. Having some lovely matching ornaments isn't surprising. She even got one before the 6-month mark, probably got matching underwear, too.
- For Sumin, this will trigger another memory, but that's it. She saw Seju unconscious, near death, on the floor, and her decision was the same. Shoving a ring to her face won't change anything. Both girls must leave her for that dumb shit to wake up.
- For Seju, it contradicts with your theory (or was it Nora's? Whatever, let's blame it on her.) that Seju did not plan the getting caught. How convenient that she had all her rings and necklaces at work ready for her flashy pitch when she did not even plan to use them.
Anyway, I think Seju has the original rings. They are the memory she collected and she will live by them.
Seju never peaced out if this peaced out means that she gives up. She may perceived at this moment that Sumin wants Sungji at this point in Sumin"s life but eventually will come back to her even how much time it takes because she knows that their hearts belongs to each other and no one else.
In my post, by "peace out" I meant it with your theory (or was it Nora's? Fuck it, it is her fault. Please forgive her.) that she picked Sungji for Sumin, thus she could leave Sumin in good hand and gracefully peace out.... for good. Why bother giving Sumin a temporary toy when she is more than capable of being Sumin's favorite toy?
Opportunity came to fuck.
ARRRRRHHHHH~ (You forgot to censor the F word. Quick, cover it.)
Were Nami and Sungji exchanging infos? Yes, it is like, you tell me the whereabouts of the CEO and I will tell you about them.
Chap. 46, Nami knows where to wait for Seju.
Chap. 44, Sungji told Sumin
Chap. 55, her interpretation of the resignation letter, alcohol and button.
Sungji knew where to wait for Seju, even knew where Seju's "date" was? Everyone has preference. That's fine. I am just not a fan of making assumption based on panels/conversations I do not see, especially when there is already a well illustrated 27/55 to explain this. Even without 27/55 and without Nami, alcohol alone implied that Sumin was not in her right mind; resignation implied Sumin was not there cuddle, she wanted to leave; add the button for dramatic effect.
Let me talk about Prorong. The dog loves to bite only Sungji. To remedy, Sungji bought colirful band aids. Her capacity to withstand oain and getting used to it. Did Dawoon do that?
Even Prorong dropped the bone when Sungji announced that there is someone who interests her. So, no one after Dawoon?
Huh? You need to lower your level further to match my IQ. I ain't getting this. :3
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 3:39AM
Enk where are you and your comments? Aww, I would have back you while those conversations happen if I didn't get so much unexpected work. I really hate unexpected work cuz it totally ruin my plan of not doing work. :'(. Need to ask for a god damn raise ASAP.
Nora can game theory fix my Gaydar? I will totally learn calculas if it does.
Oh no, was that my evil twin?
It can't have been your evil twin as long as you're still jpeg XDDD
Meg, what did you do? Tell me!
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 4:54AM
subtly, she is trying to fix it here and there.. let's first identify the problems:
- we have an inferiority complex (Seju understood it in ch56)
- deep trust issues (Seju knew how bad it was in ch82)
working on #1 is mostly going from Sumin's side.. but even the employment of another TL who kept complaining about the amount of work she had to do while Sumin sees it as nothing but a normal load (would somehow send a message to Sumin and her previous team members about how capable she is AND that she didn't get the job by simply bedding Seju).. REMEMBER: Seju chose the new TL herself.
Sumin's side? So what is Seju's role in this? choosing the new TL herself? She would be a genius to be able to predict that Sumin would know how badly that new TL will under-perform, in which way could she think that Sumin will know? From Sungji? They might not even talk about work when they're dating. Too many assumptions for a simple action called hiring a new TL.
working on #2: happened subtly.. but it also needed Sumin's effort.. first of all: Sumin apologised for the first time ever to Seju in ch83.
All thanks to Sungji. So what is Seju's role in this? Childishly run off the house to meet Sungji then get an apology? She didnt even do anything to push Sumin to apologize. She chose to run away. Not helping right?
Secondly: she became more aware of how her assumptions and actions hurt people around her (ch87).. let alone the lines that Seju dropped here and there about trust and how it is easy to misjudge.
And what did Seju do again? This is all in Sumin's mind? What is Seju's role in this? Even the assumption is not even Seju's creation, it randomly happened in Sumin's house which cant be predicted so basically Seju didnt do anything.
saying that Seju didn't work on the problems is a bit underestimating.. Sumin is working on her problems as well.
Yeah, and I see you give information about Sumin doing things not Seju doing things.
Seju is like an outsider who doesnt actively do a single thing, according to the "plan" she has
yoonie.. again, ch1-54 (letting go) .. ch54-64 (getting Sumin back), ch66-85 (resuming the plan).. ch86-88 (re-evaluation of the plan).. ch89 no longer plans are required.
What kind of a person who keeps changing her plan like this? Like she doesnt even know what she wants, what she needs. She doesnt even control the situation, like everything is impulsive and just on the spot. This is not even a plan, this is like you drive me this way then I changed to go this way to suit the trend #___________#.
A plan shouldnt be like this, tbh.
Seju I know is the one who knows what she wants and what she needs so she would do anything get what she wants
the pleading part happened in ch88. (the reevaluation period)
or let me put it this way:
- ch1-54 (letting go): she employed Sungji.. pushed Sumin to date her in a very suggestive manner (ch4).. pushed Sungji to date Sumin (ch14).. ch27: "I saw a lot of girls like you around Sumin.. hey, we have sex whenever we are bored, and you better not go all in emotionally because it will hurt eventually)
Doesnt that give you the vibe that she is intimidating Sungji? Instead of giving a warning or advice?
- ch54-64 (getting Sumin back): oh, Sumin loved me all those years.. this time she won't be coming back even when I am done with what I have now.. (BUT there is still something between us to fight for).. but then ch64 (Seju knew about her father's plan.. Sumin: let's start over and get the fuck out of here together like we already wanted 10 years ago.. Sumin said NOPE.) .. (at the sametime Sumin was basically saying: you should have said that you loved me and fought for me when I wanted someone to held on to me.. but even then,10 years ago, Sumin was pushing her away.. see how Sumin's mind works ?)
All those chaps from 54 to 64:
Sumin's mind: Its too late for us, for Seju and Sumin, I'm now in love with another person, Seju is one step too late. She should've said something when she still needs it. Now she doesnt need it anymore since she also lost Sungji.
The important part, at that time, Sumin also lost Sungji, she lost sth she is considering important, hence " you should have said that you loved me and fought for me when I wanted someone to held on to me".
Seju's mind: I should take her back, in full.
ch66-85 (resuming the plan): since Sumin is not into the whole running away thing.. we return to the plan once again.. ironically, the assassin followed her that day.. so! her guts feeling was right about something wrong going to happen.
ch86-88 (re-evaluation of the plan): does it worth it ? the whole thing.. they both need each other.. and they both know it.. should she really let go or fight for Sumin.
that's because it's not a single rigid plan from ch1 up till now. The plan got changed, paused, resumed and many other things happened in between.
Seriously though, Norah -ah. I'm sorry to hurt you but your version of Seju's plan is very very absurd. It's not even far-fetched. It's unreal. It's like another version of wdtfs, really.
The Seju and Seju's plan all the time in your description sounds unfamiliar to me. She is like an angel in disguise who does things at its best interest for the person she loves while my version of Seju is a selfish and can go all out for love, who is too blind to realize Sumin's love and care for her all those years, who realized the chance she had minutes too late when Sungji is in the picture, who should blame only herself for losing Sumin to Sungji. Really.
and about Sungji, is it too hard to know if a person is idealistic, protective and stubborn in nature ? (I don't think so)
Yes, it's harder to realize a reckless person than a stubborn person. How can we see idealism and protectiveness in a person just by one meeting?
Idealism and protectiveness is not sth we could see in the eyes or talk
Anyway, unless you know a person, you cant be sure how that person really is. You are having a plan, you bet yourself in that plan, no way you choose a person you're not even sure to have a crucial role in your plan.
wouldn't Sumin actually find herself a "relationship that has no future" as Seju perfectly knows ? why would Seju involve in Sumin's hobby if it wasn't to break the habit!
Because she doesnt want to break it. She wants to prolong it to forever. She involves because she saw Sumin hasnt seen any new girl for a few months, so she brought in a new girl for her, then back to her.
That's the circle Seju has accepted and continued for her own sake and mantra that Sumin will be back
I forgot to add this.. everything happened from ch44 to now ch89 took place in a single MONTH. from min- October to mid-November
so, the part regarding fixing issues.. it's happening. and to be fair, it is quicker than that of a real life.
I dont see the fixing, Sumin is still the same, Seju is still the same, just that now they no longer see each other (at least for now)
Anyway, we might not be able to agree on this but this is my view:
Yes, Seju has a plan in the beginning, push Sungji to Sumin for them to date, not because she wanted to break the circle, she wanted Sumin to have a new girlfriend so that Sumin wont get bored of her after few months they have sex together. Their time out, just like 10 years. And when things fall apart, Sumin will be back to her and the circle to continue
Seju also needs SuminxSungji to break it off fast, so she intimidated Sungji at that night. However things didnt go as her plan since Sungji sticked around.
Everything changed the day Sumin confessed. She realized that Sumin still loves her, we're not sex buddies, this circle doesnt need to continue to have Sumin back so she fight
Then they had their bed talk and Seju realized its too late for her, too late for anything since they're coward who cant say their real feelings towards each other and Seju herself is the biggest coward of all time for not knowing and didnt dare to say she loves Sumin. All Seju's fault.
But Seju is still holding on because she loves Sumin too much and Sumin is the only one she could rely on so we have bed talk in chap 86 and how she has been living in Sumin's house.
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 6:22AM
yoonie0104
hold up.. I will get back to you after my last exam on the freaking 18th of August.
or whatever, I wanna do this instead XDD..
yoonie, I will tell you the same thing I told Enk, you make decisions based on the information you currently have, you can't control the other person's actions or decisions in a dynamic environment.. but you adjust to it. ( I may make a wite-out return and show you how decision tree works)
I never said that the whole story is Seju's plan, I am saying that she choses her big moves strategically.
Now, Sumin's and Seju's issues:
those issues need 1) identification 2) solving
the identification by itself is very crucial.. to prevent further damages.. Sumin and Seju ARE working on them. It can't be only Seju or only Sumin working on them.. but at least now you know a massage or two that both of them got just by living together under one roof for 10 days.
ch82, ch88 (trust)
ch87, ch88 (inferiority complex)
slowly but surely.
She didnt even do anything to push Sumin to apologize. She chose to run away. Not helping right?
I keep repeating, sometimes even if you are the most collected person, you lose it.. and Seju losing it on Sumin in ch82 given her PTSD is the most human reaction.
it randomly happened in Sumin's house which cant be predicted so basically Seju didnt do anything.
do you think that Sumin and Seju are the type to sit down and talk about the world ? or they just say what needs to be said given the moment.
once more, look at ch88
Sumin: and here I was suspicious of Sungji for..
Seju: it happens when you can't see things yourself.
ch87
Seju: just make sure you won't make any mistake
Sumin: I won't
Seju: you don't know, that's why its called a mistake.
a change doesn't need to be dramatic.. sometimes reactions and a simple word to draw reflection to a past experience is more than enough.
Seju is like an outsider who doesnt actively do a single thing, according to the "plan" she has
i am in the circle again.. which chapter are you talking about.. look at the break down I made.. and then we could know what stage she is in. IT IS NOT A RIGID PLAN.
What kind of a person who keeps changing her plan like this? Like she doesnt even know what she wants, what she needs. She doesnt even control the situation, like everything is impulsive and just on the spot. This is not even a plan, this is like you drive me this way then I changed to go this way to suit the trend #___________#.
yes, a plan changes.. she is not God, how would she know that things would turn this way?
you save every penny to buy a house, then someone is sick so you save to cure them.. does that mean you are impulsive or that shit happens and you try to limit the losses ?? or you are bad planner ?
All those chaps from 54 to 64:
Sumin's mind: Its too late for us, for Seju and Sumin, I'm now in love with another person, Seju is one step too late. She should've said something when she still needs it. Now she doesnt need it anymore since she also lost Sungji.
no, this is not what Sumin is about. That night Sungji broke up with her.. Sumin already knew if she was to jump back to Seju then there is no breaking of the habit.. and she knows that both: their pride and cowardness to face issues would sabotage anything Seju is thinking about.
The important part, at that time, Sumin also lost Sungji, she lost sth she is considering important, hence " you should have said that you loved me and fought for me when I wanted someone to held on to me".
this is not the time frame Sumin was talking about.. she meant much much earlier. 10 years ago. she needed someone to hold into her.. even if she would push them away at first. somewhat she blames Seju for giving up on her. BTW, even if you think that Sumin is talking about the present time, then ch3 is consistent with this idea.
Seriously though, Norah -ah. I'm sorry to hurt you but your version of Seju's plan is very very absurd. It's not even far-fetched. It's unreal. It's like another version of wdtfs, really.
my version and yours are not very far, both are the same.. what mine says is: Seju tries to take and do the best giving her circumstances instead of doing things on a whim. That's the only difference, I find motives to her actions rather than taking them as impulses.
the rest of your comment will be answered in a wite-out version XD
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 6:57AM
yoonie0104
hold up.. I will get back to you after my last exam on the freaking 18th of August
That's a very beautiful day to have an exams, Norah XDDDDDDDD. Next chap is very very crucial xDDDDDDDDDDD
@Nora, I think I've missed reading your comments, so could you tell me why Seju wanted to break the circle?
yoonie0104
hold up.. I will get back to you after my last exam on the freaking 18th of August
That's a very beautiful day to have an exams, Norah XDDDDDDDD. Next chap is very very crucial xDDDDDDDDDDD
I edited..
@Nora, I think I've missed reading your comments, so could you tell me why Seju wanted to break the circle?
I will .. gimme a moment.
well, Ladies ,gentle ladies (and everyone in between)
I hope this one is clear XD
I hope this one is clear XD
xD
What were the qualifications she saw in Sungji to entrust Sumin to her? Did she also know that Sungji would swing that way? lol
sia ue
What were the qualifications she saw in Sungji to entrust Sumin to her? Did she also know that Sungji would swing that way? lol
according to Team Gaji and the panels, Seju was able to know
1) Sumin's type in girls. ch9
2) Sungji is kinder and nicer than she looks. ch4, ch9
knowing #2, Seju used it to push Sungji with Sumin, and Sungji indeed responded positively. ch14
This is not me saying this.. this is TG saying Seju knew this.
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 7:55AM
What about Sungji's type? Did her being kind and nice mean that she would fall in love with Sumin unconditionally?
What about Sungji's type? Did her being kind and nice mean that she would fall in love with Sumin unconditionally?
I myself wouldn't guess.. however, the panel in ch14 tells you that Seju somewhat had an educated guess about Sumin and Sungji being a possible match. Why would Seju wait in Sumin's office ch14, and say what she said to Sungji then unless her smirk is also a mistake by Gaji. In a matter of fact, ch14 tells you that Seju is able to get answers for questions she doesn't even ask.
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 8:14AM
Seju was so pretty that I find it hard to tell which is the panel where she was smirking. lol Seju had no idea whom Sumin was with last night, seeing Sungji admitting it before she got to ask her was smirk-worthy imo. Chapter 14 doesn't tell you that Seju was able to get the answers imo, I'd say it tells you that Sungji back then was too naive that she couldn't even hide her thoughts.
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 10:21AM
sia ue
for the love of God, if you believe in him.. look at ch14.
I don't mean this, actually this is not a smirk! http://imgur.com/a/rH1cF
she indirectly led Sungji to admit it without asking.
I mean this one, the smirk: http://imgur.com/a/HYQEu , Seju's "educated guess" was indeed working!
Seju: "Sumin was talking about you alot"
Sungji: "About me?!" (exited)
Seju: "of course, she talks about how hardworking you are"
Sungji: "oh.."
(NOTICE: Sungji is a bit disappointed)
Seju knew that Sungji likes Sumin too, beyond master/ acquaintance level!!
btw, Sungji said: Ms. Seong has you.
Sungji is sceptical whether to jump or not.
then Seju assured her that it is okay.. she needs someone like you.. I am a busy person.
(when I reference a chapter, do you guys actually check them back?)
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 8:59AM
I mean this one, the smirk: http://imgur.com/a/HYQEu , Seju's "educated guess" was indeed working!
Ahh, so that was a smirk. lol She was smiling because her thinking that Sungji was never going to be her potential love rival was giving her confidence a big boost, I'd say.
Sungji: "oh.."
Sungji was being happy when saying this.
(when I reference a chapter, do you guys actually check them back?)
I did once, just now on this chapter 14. :'D
Ahh, so that was a smirk. lol She was smiling because her thinking that Sungji was never going to be her potential love rival was giving her confidence a big boost, I'd say.
really? then why push them together in the first place!!
Seju knew that Sumin allowed someone to be with her during that specific day, and that person even took care of Sumin. (Sungji is indeed kinder than she looks and Sumin does need and allow someone like her to be around)
I guess Seju DID find a better and a more sustainable match to Sumin than Sumin to herself !
Sungji was being happy when saying this.
really?? this is happy or a bit disappointed !!??
this is happy: http://imgur.com/a/DHJrU
this is disapointed: http://imgur.com/a/oJFmi
why disapointed? oh, she talks about me alot (yappy) .. but only about work! (sob)
I did once, just now on this chapter 14. :'D
phew!
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 9:26AM
Ahh, so that was a smirk. lol She was smiling because her thinking that Sungji was never going to be her potential love rival was giving her confidence a big boost, I'd say.
really? then why push them together in the first place!!
Seju knew that Sumin allowed someone to be with her during that specific day, and that person even took care of Sumin. (Sungji is indeed kinder than she looks and Sumin does need and allow someone like her to be around)
I guess Seju DID find a better and a more sustainable match to Sumin than Sumin to herself !Sungji was being happy when saying this.
really?? this is happy or a bit disappointed !!??
this is happy: http://imgur.com/a/DHJrU
this is disapointed: http://imgur.com/a/oJFmi
why disapointed? oh, she talks about me alot (yappy) .. but only about work! (sob)I did once, just now on this chapter 14. :'D
phew!
Hm, another thing this remind me of asking Sungji to never forgive Suimin, why?
is it possible that Seju push Suimin to Sungji, and she will leave and go back to her mum's house and never return again, I hope she wont suicide. ..
abc1234
Hm, another thing this remind me of asking Sungji to never forgive Suimin, why?
yoonie cooked me yesterday over this matter, I did answer that.
is it possible that Seju push Suimin to Sungji, and she will leave and go back to her mum's house and never return again, I hope she wont suicide. ..
did you see the diagram I made above ? now, Seju has no reasons to choose playing A or B.. her war with the Baeks is over ch89. cool ?
here is the diagram http://imgur.com/a/OE2FI
Seju will not commit suicide, we should get that from ch86 and what she said to Sumin. oh, I know no one would check the chapter, here is a snap shot. http://imgur.com/a/suOmI
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 9:48AM
Thanks Nora I get what you mean.
hm.. So Sumin have choose Sungji and end of story? Hope there's a twist plot.
I am still Seju's supporter!
Ahh, so that was a smirk. lol She was smiling because her thinking that Sungji was never going to be her potential love rival was giving her confidence a big boost, I'd say.
really? then why push them together in the first place!!
Isn't it always a trend for friends to couple you with others? Seju was acting as a friend of Sumin's. Also, Seju knew that Sumin must find someone to date anyways.
I guess Seju DID find a better and a more sustainable match to Sumin than Sumin to herself !
She almost dumped Sumin and dated her childhood friend.
really?? this is happy or a bit disappointed !!??
this is happy: http://imgur.com/a/DHJrU
Surprised + Happy
this is disapointed: http://imgur.com/a/oJFmi
Happy.
abc1234
hm.. So Sumin have choose Sungji and end of story? Hope there's a twist plot.
good question.. now, Sumin is in a place where it is weird for her to make a choice. She won't be the one doing it. (guilt, pride and feeling in debt to Sungji)
let me put it this way:
a) between Sungji and Seju -> Sumin won't chose
b) if Sungji breaks up with Sumin -> Sumin would chose to either get back to Seju or not.
I know, you will ask me why didn't she get back to Seju in ch64?
the answer is: Sumin knows that if she does start over with Seju, their relationship is doomed to fail again.. because they are cowards who couldn't face and fix their problems.
another question: then why would Sumin choose to get back to Seju again this time, in case Sungji broke up with her once more?
I guess that TG will play something in the middle to exclude the possibility of falling in the trap of the same issues that they fell into 10 years ago. I mean, trust, insecurity and inferiority complex will no longer stand in between those two girls. -> sustainable solution
sia ue
Isn't it always a trend for friends to couple you with others? Seju was acting as a friend of Sumin's. Also,
Seju knew that Sumin must find someone to date anyways.
yes, another red head another lawyer you mean another 30 girls before she finally magically hits it the right way, because you know.. Sumin is an awesome judge of characters !
yeah, you have a point. (white flag)
I have been delusional all that time.. thanks for pointing out that Sungji was just happy in here: http://imgur.com/a/oJFmi
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 10:18AM
Anyways.. I was asked about my views about things.. I reference and snap shot scenes because the argument could go on till the doomsday without anyone checking the references THEY asked me for in the first place. How would you know what am I talking about if you can't recall or even bother to check the panel !!!
blows my mind.
shoving my "delusions" in someone else's head is not a hobby that I particularly enjoy.
So, I would be working on my exams and paper.. see you on the 18th of August.
Peace.
last edited at Aug 16, 2017 10:29AM