For someone who is supposed to realize the root of their problem, Seju is really bad at fixing it. Running away from home after being accused of a thief? How is that helping her situation with Sumin? Begging Sungji to not forgive Sumin? how is that helping her?

yoonie, please look at the whole picture instead of a situation by a situation:
- why she ran away that day is really related to PTSD symptoms.. her being sensitive at that point is not very surprising (ch82-ch83) dealt with symptoms other than sleeping and eating problems.
- the plea in itself came after ch87 and her bed talk with Sumin.. (she genuinely said that she is capable of saying whatever she wants and Sungji better not hear it, Sungji insisted.. so Seju said what she wanted. (whether we agree or not on the rest of the panels translation) but at least you know that Sungji insisted on hearing what Seju wanted to say.. and Seju said while telling Sungji that it's better for her not to know, hear or listen to it.

I dont say that Sumin didnt feel possessive over Seju in the past but she has stopped now. Lets face this, she might still have feelings for Seju, no doubts, but she IS ready to leave her, she wants to. Whether she could do it or not, we need to see, but this is sth I can not lie to myself. Sumin wanted to move on, she felt guilty for leaving Seju like this for all the things she has done but she need to move on, for her sake and for Sungji's sake, Sumin has to do it.

I guess we all had this situation at least once in our lives, wanting to move on, but not really.. because we do actions that somewhat keeps a door open for another chance. This is what Sumin was doing with her insistence on buying the house. As you said, we will need to see.

Yes, I've it a few times and I believe Sumin's choice has been made long ago. She will leave, she needs to leave.

she does need to leave.. readjust and reevaluate everything.. her life, her relationships and her feelings.

She is already ready for it since the date he got submitted to the hospital. She already decided to not take anything long ago. To her brothers, there is a battle, to her, there is none, so why should she think about going head to head with her brothers to protect Sumin when she already knows her way out?

because until her brothers realise that there is no battle, her life and Sumin's will always be in danger. Thus, ch76 attack.. even though it was clear that she told them in ch71 that she doesn't need any inheritance.. did they believe her or instead thought that she knew about the will !??
no matter what she did or said, they would have harmed her and blackmailed her with Sumin.

Her brother wouldnt do anything unless she harms them, so no worries for something happens to Sumin. The assassin, she brought it upon to herself. If she didnt threadten them, she should be fine

they sent her an assassin to follow her before she even talked to them in ch71 ! and they still harmed her even though she told them about not wanting to inherit anything. the Timeline is important.

Maybe, but how did Sungji know about her plan to have two meanings for that, btw?

flashback ch27/55 and what Sungji saw in ch55 itself. (I also wonder if Team Gaji said the final line as a narrative line or an actual dialogue from Sungji's side.. it works both ways anyway)

Didnt you say that she has continued her plan after chap 66. So what's with the beg to Sungji? The desparate talk to Sumin in bed?

yes.. because at that moment, 64 bed talk, she knew it would take time to ever fix it now with all the things going on around her.. she even knew about her father's plan and transfer of a fortune in her name. time element plays a role in here. (if Sumin was to start over, she would just leave the hell out with her.. if Sumin insisted on staying then the plan must resume)

Yeah, one and only word, dont forgive her cause she is so desparate to have Sumin back, there is no plan of "leaving Sumin"

Yoonie, I am running in circles.. There was a plan up to ch54, then off then ch66 resumed.. then ch86 (reevaluation of the plan and why the relationship went to that in the first place) then ch89: plan ends.

You have to be a philosopher to be able to catch on a person's personality that fast and that's a big risk to take on to reveal Sumin's dark past to Sungji that early without chasing Sungji away.

well, she knew what Sumin likes the most.. she made an excellent set up to ensure that they both meet and interact.. she even knew immediately that "Sungji is nicer than she looks" ch4.. notice that Seju is more perceptive than Nammi.. you know what Nammi knew in ch19?? That Sungji is a virgin !!! even before Sumin knew it. Nammi is this sharp, can you get how sharp Seju is ?

She do have plan for Sungj but not to leave Sumin but for Sumin to like her and date her for a few months then back to her. That's why she chose Sungji personally, she knew Sumin will like Sungji

for what.. to keep the endless circle ?.. the circle was on automatic mode .. why would she take the hassle ?.. she wanted to break the circle not maintain it.

And for a warning or a words with good intention, that's too early and very very not in a nice way. The way she talk, she wanted to intimidate Sungji, and honestly, no matter how many times I read it, it contains bad intentions from Seju, not an advice, not a warning, just make some ideas into Sungji's head for her own gain

well, it worked! Sungji changed from a person who would fuss at Sumin's touch in ch25, to a person who is so eager to have sex in ch29.. she sped up her pace a bit to catch up with Sumin's needs. Did Seju's talk has truth in it? YES, up to the last word.. call it warning or provocation.. what mattered is: Sungji worked harder to keep Sumin.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 9:14AM

Nora89

hahahah.. as long as you would put some badass avatar XD.. you could name it evil-suke.. OR: Suka-sista XD

(not very creative, huh?..XD)

I'm not either. XD My lack of avatar shows that.

---

Lots of posts by you and Foxy lady to look back on after I finish my exams. Yay. :) (I feel like such a fan.)

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 10:11AM

yoonie, please look at the whole picture instead of a situation by a situation:
- why she ran away that day is really related to PTSD symptoms.. her being sensitive at that point is not very surprising (ch82-ch83) dealt with symptoms other than sleeping and eating problems.

I do see that she has PTSD symptoms but what I tried to say is she did NOTHING to fix something she is supposed to know, and in constrast, she did things that makes people feel like she is not emotionally stable to get what she wants. Do you see she doing anything, aside from begging, working and throwing tantrum?

You said she knows the problems but I see her doing nothing to fix the problems. That's why I said she only focuses on one thing "Sumin is leaving her and she needs to make her back"

• the plea in itself came after ch87 and her bed talk with Sumin.. (she genuinely said that she is capable of saying whatever she wants and Sungji better not hear it, Sungji insisted.. so Seju said what she wanted. (whether we agree or not on the rest of the panels translation) but at least you know that Sungji insisted on hearing what Seju wanted to say.. and Seju said while telling Sungji that it's better for her not to know, hear or listen to it.

So she knows that she can say anything that is unpleasant to Sungji, and she knows that Sungji wouldnt believe her or listen to her. She knows her position. Her words, there is no other meaning than a pleading for Sumin to be back. So what is the plan of "leaving Sumin" when all of her actions said that she wants her back?

I guess we all had this situation at least once in our lives, wanting to move on, but not really.. because we do actions that somewhat keeps a door open for another chance. This is what Sumin was doing with her insistence on buying the house. As you said, we will need to see.

I wont argue on this since I agree. Sumin will leave, whether its definite or not, we'll see but she will leave. This is the established fact for quite a while already.

she does need to leave.. readjust and reevaluate everything.. her life, her relationships and her feelings.

She wont reevaluate anything. She makes up her mind and she will leave. For her to rethink, there should be a catalyst, and that's Sungji, we'll need to see what happens next but she doesnt leave because she needs to readjust or reevaluate. She leaves because she wanted this to stop.

because until her brothers realise that there is no battle, her life and Sumin's will always be in danger. Thus, ch76 attack.. even though it was clear that she told them in ch71 that she doesn't need any inheritance.. did they believe her or instead thought that she knew about the will !??
no matter what she did or said, they would have harmed her and blackmailed her with Sumin.

No, they wont, unless Seju did sth. Didnt they stay quiet until Seju stupidly but badass-ly throwed a fit to them? They have people stalk her but they wont do anything to harm her. They just need to have her in check. They CANT harm her. And Seju knows that

When they indeed harmed her, its because they wanted to teach her a lesson for being a smartass in the last gathering, not because they wanted to really harm her, they just want to scare her. The intention is different.

There is a difference between real danger and a bluff to scare someone and in Seju's case, its the latter.

they sent her an assassin to follow her before she even talked to them in ch71 ! and they still harmed her even though she told them about not wanting to inherit anything. the Timeline is important.

Of course they wont believe but that doesnt mean they will harm her, she still has her father as the shadow, they wont harm her.

flashback ch27/55 and what Sungji saw in ch55 itself. (I also wonder if Team Gaji said the final line as a narrative line or an actual dialogue from Sungji's side.. it works both ways anyway)

For both case, in Sungji's perspective, there is only one meaning "you want to ruin us right? Well, you will not have your wish, it wont end the way you want"

yes.. because at that moment, 64 bed talk, she knew it would take time to ever fix it now with all the things going on around her.. she even knew about her father's plan and transfer of a fortune in her name. time element plays a role in here. (if Sumin was to start over, she would just leave the hell out with her.. if Sumin insisted on staying then the plan must resume)

This is all your assumption, when actually all I see is a desparate Seju who begged to be able to be with Sumin

Like I said for someone who has a plan, Seju's actions are too inconsistent to be considered a plan.

Yoonie, I am running in circles.. There was a plan up to ch54, then off then ch66 resumed.. then ch86 (reevaluation of the plan and why the relationship went to that in the first place) then ch89: plan ends.

Yes, and that's why I dont understand what you are trying to prove? She has a plan but she keeps on begging, she has a plan but she stays put, she has a plan but she push Sungji to leave Sumin. What kind of plan is that?

well, she knew what Sumin likes the most.. she made an excellent set up to ensure that they both meet and interact.. she even knew immediately that "Sungji is nicer than she looks" ch4.. notice that Seju is more perceptive than Nammi.. you know what Nammi knew in ch19?? That Sungji is a virgin !!! even before Sumin knew it. Nammi is this sharp, can you get how sharp Seju is ?

Yeah but you are saying she knows Sungji right within the first meeting, I dont say about how well she know Sumin, I say about how you assume she knows Sungji so well that she could foresee that Sungji will not leave when she barely knows her TL and being dumped to a tons of bad infos about someone who she just started to like. Smart move from Seju with good intentions? I dont think so

for what.. to keep the endless circle ?.. the circle was on automatic mode .. why would she take the hassle ?.. she wanted to break the circle not maintain it.

That is exactly what Seju initially planned to!!!!!! The circle not to end. Never end. She pushed Sungji to Sumin for that Sumin to have her time out with new girl and back to her when she is bored. That is Seju's initial plan. That's why she personally chose Sungji cause she knows Sumin will like Sungji. She just didnt expect Sungji could go this far. It changed after hearing Sumin's confession and she realized she wanted Sumin back as a whole but its too late, that's why we have chap 64 and Seju realized its too late and its hopeless

That's why we have the bed talk in chap 86, she said "even if its hopeless...". She has realized it but she still holds on

well, it worked! Sungji changed from a person who would fuss at Sumin's touch in ch25, to a person who is so eager to have sex in ch29.. she sped up her pace a bit to catch up with Sumin's needs. Did Seju's talk has truth in it? YES, up to the last word.. call it warning or provocation.. what mattered is: Sungji worked harder to keep Sumin.

Are you sure its Seju's intention to have Sungji go this far or actually its the other way around?

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 11:19AM

She was not feeling well. Seju has a high body temperature even when she is well. TG shows this in the way she clothed herself during sleep and her resistance to cold temperature. So, the touch of Sungji "discomforted" her. Thus, she instinctively remove it in the elevator. We have our moments when we are sick, easily irritated. Can you not empathize with that, yoonie?

As a normal person or a CEO with a stranger, I can empathize, as a CEO who has image to uphold in front of an employee, I cant xD. This is something not about just being sick and giving up to temper, its also about a CEO and how she treats her employees in every occasion xDDDDD

She won't. Sungji will always remind Sumin of Seju. In either case even, i.e., present or not present. But it is different with Sungji. The striking resemblance in intellect, appearance, warmth, comfort, caring ways can't be ignored. Take chap. 2 with the umbrella to a nostalgic Sumin in the car that leads to "Sometimes I feel you are still in love with me". (I guess by this line of thinking, continuing SuminxSungji is doomed but an advantage to SejuxSumin.)

Hmmm, this is debating.

This is classic of what the speech bubble can do. I discussed this in the previous chapters intended to mpgpeg.
In my perspective, Seju didn"t say it. It was up in the air. It was her thoughts only. The "please" as well was in her thoughts. Both of these functions of the speech bubble was well established in chap. 1. If you can remember, I"ve wrote this before, "so much I want to say... so much I need to tell you, so much I never can"...

HMMM, its not like everytime the bubble has to go with pattern, sometimes, we could use it another way to emphasize one particular sentence, like emotional sentences, like two of your examples?

Sixth sense. Sumin is very sexual (chap. 40). She doesn't want Sungji to commit a mistake. It is why it is called a mistake because you don't know. Thus, it is laying that foundation for a SejuxSumin as strengthened by Sungji in chap. 51, "It is by my choice."

I've pointed out my view about this to Norah and I'm pretty sure you read it xDDDDD.

Sixth sense is not good enough for a smart person to carry her plan by saying stuff like that to Sungji, too much of a risk and the talking gesture is not that friendly.

Might just be me but I think this whole "Seju's grand plan" thing is some extreme over-analysis. I personally think Seju's pretty much just a love-stuck idiot acting out of desperation at this point.

There is nothing wrong with being an idiot for love?

Sungji is also called an idiot for love at this point, completely, just like Seju. Both of the are equally love-struck idiots who only knows love. Who is in their right mind to stick with a person full of baggage like Sumin, hurting you the way Sumin hurt Sungji, cheating Sungji the way Sumin did? Sungji is just better cause she can have her Sumin atm so people dont call her names. Is Sungji in desperation? Absolutely. Is she in distress. Of course. For what? For love. She is just a better idiot, if you said it like that.

So better than calling them idiot, giving all out for love is something we should appriciate in this manhwa. If using your head and judging them, it will lead you nowhere.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 12:03PM

You said she knows the problems but I see her doing nothing to fix the problems.

subtly, she is trying to fix it here and there.. let's first identify the problems:

1. we have an inferiority complex (Seju understood it in ch56)
2. deep trust issues (Seju knew how bad it was in ch82)

working on #1 is mostly going from Sumin's side.. but even the employment of another TL who kept complaining about the amount of work she had to do while Sumin sees it as nothing but a normal load (would somehow send a message to Sumin and her previous team members about how capable she is AND that she didn't get the job by simply bedding Seju).. REMEMBER: Seju chose the new TL herself.

working on #2: happened subtly.. but it also needed Sumin's effort.. first of all: Sumin apologised for the first time ever to Seju in ch83. Secondly: she became more aware of how her assumptions and actions hurt people around her (ch87).. let alone the lines that Seju dropped here and there about trust and how it is easy to misjudge.

saying that Seju didn't work on the problems is a bit underestimating.. Sumin is working on her problems as well.

So she knows that she can say anything that is unpleasant to Sungji, and she knows that Sungji wouldnt believe her or listen to her. She knows her position. Her words, there is no other meaning than a pleading for Sumin to be back. So what is the plan of "leaving Sumin" when all of her actions said that she wants her back?

yoonie.. again, ch1-54 (letting go) .. ch54-64 (getting Sumin back), ch66-85 (resuming the plan).. ch86-88 (re-evaluation of the plan).. ch89 no longer plans are required.

the pleading part happened in ch88. (the reevaluation period)

or let me put it this way:

1. ch1-54 (letting go): she employed Sungji.. pushed Sumin to date her in a very suggestive manner (ch4).. pushed Sungji to date Sumin (ch14).. ch27: "I saw a lot of girls like you around Sumin.. hey, we have sex whenever we are bored, and you better not go all in emotionally because it will hurt eventually)
2. ch54-64 (getting Sumin back): oh, Sumin loved me all those years.. this time she won't be coming back even when I am done with what I have now.. (BUT there is still something between us to fight for).. but then ch64 (Seju knew about her father's plan.. Sumin: let's start over and get the fuck out of here together like we already wanted 10 years ago.. Sumin said NOPE.) .. (at the sametime Sumin was basically saying: you should have said that you loved me and fought for me when I wanted someone to held on to me.. but even then,10 years ago, Sumin was pushing her away.. see how Sumin's mind works ?)
3. ch66-85 (resuming the plan): since Sumin is not into the whole running away thing.. we return to the plan once again.. ironically, the assassin followed her that day.. so! her guts feeling was right about something wrong going to happen.
4. ch86-88 (re-evaluation of the plan): does it worth it ? the whole thing.. they both need each other.. and they both know it.. should she really let go or fight for Sumin.

Now, no family pressure on them, no longer inferiority complex pressure on Sumin.. no need for plans anymore.. whatever happens then it would be only them from themselves.

Like I said for someone who has a plan, Seju's actions are too inconsistent to be considered a plan.

that's because it's not a single rigid plan from ch1 up till now. The plan got changed, paused, resumed and many other things happened in between.

and about Sungji, is it too hard to know if a person is idealistic, protective and stubborn in nature ? (I don't think so)

wouldn't Sumin actually find herself a "relationship that has no future" as Seju perfectly knows ? why would Seju involve in Sumin's hobby if it wasn't to break the habit!

---

I forgot to add this.. everything happened from ch44 to now ch89 took place in a single MONTH. from min- October to mid-November

so, the part regarding fixing issues.. it's happening. and to be fair, it is quicker than that of a real life.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 12:47PM

Enk

Might just be me but I think this whole "Seju's grand plan" thing is some extreme over-analysis. I personally think Seju's pretty much just a love-stuck idiot acting out of desperation at this point.

I don't know if you still find my comments meaningful, however, what I mean by Seju's plans is: why she acts in a certain way.. what is she trying to achieve and why. Not everything happened was because of her planning, in a matter of fact, she had to make decisions and change those decisions in the middle of their execution because well, she didn't plan it that way XDDD. And she didn't become like this because she wants to, but because most of the time, she had to.
only in ch89 Seju became free from her conservative bully family, and that's the point where she has no reason to be torn between running away or fighting and possibly be harassed and blackmailed (using Sumin)
(notice ch76 what the assassin said, remember what Seju thinks about the scarring of Sumin in ch27)
During the period of ch1-88

a) Sumin doesn't want her, then push her out of the way -> fight the Baeks
b) Sumin loves her, then there is a chance of starting over somewhere else -> run away, get married maybe.

ch89.. those two options are no longer motivated.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 1:16PM

Enk

but at this point I'm just starting finding your theories to be rather absurd and unbelievable. I can't get behind the idea of Sungji being hired and all the events being a part of Seju's plan rather than Seju just making a lot impulsive and dumb decisions and possibly regretting those decisions.

I edited my above comment to make it a bit clearer.. (I tend to write things assuming that the reader perceive things the way I do, apologies)

anyways, whether you find her every action from the first chapter till now impulsive and dumb doesn't affect the fact that she has reasons to do them. in a matter of fact, TG chose to present her as a very successful and intelligent business woman with a survival mentality from her childhood.. I think that the only thing that Seju regrets was giving up on Sumin one night before Sumin went back to her senses in ch11 (I leave the bartender incident aside deliberately because I have another view about it).. but that's the fact, Seju gave up one night earlier!

Enk

That's how I interpret Seju to be, might just be me but I find that more believable than essentially the whole story being some pre-planned scheme by Seju

hahahha.. no one is saying that the whole story is a master plan by Seju.. we are saying that Seju acts on strategic ways sometimes, and adapts when the situation requires to. The incidents in themselves are not Seju's planning, ONLY her actions are planned and directed into specific objectives.

in a matter of fact, even though Seju planned that Sumin and Sungji would meet and somewhat date.. she had no guarantees or assurances that they will actually fall in love with each other or not.

She throws the dice and plays accordingly.

Enk
They may appear random to you.. but not to how the story goes on and on in explaining the background motive.. actions and reactions. At least TG classified the woman as intelligent.

On final note: planing actions given circumstances =/= planing a whole outcome with all associated feedbacks

Enk

Regardless of Seju's intent, I don't think you can argue against the fact that without her, Sungji and Sumin would probably have never met.

Her company, she brought Sumin in first, obviously, and then Sungji came much later. There would be no relationship between the two without her, whether she planned it or not.

Enk

Seju brought in Sumin though...

Yes, Sungji could have been picked by someone else, but if there's no Sumin, then they couldn't have met anyways.

The whole story was mainly set at the Hello Studio company, Seju's "home turf", you can say. Many people only consider her as a third wheel, but that is far from the truth.

Enk

hahahahahha.. you know what Seju's position in Hello Studio is ?
a freaking CEO. Not an HR manager !
why interview a 3rd level employee BY HER SELF.. tour her around the company.. in the very early stages of the Manhwa ch4 she purposely planted the idea in Sumin's head.. then went to the sceptical Sungji (who knows more or less that Seju and Sumin are a little bit more than just friends) to tell her: oh, she needs you.. she is weaker than she appears, take care of her.
Sungji: but Ms. Seong has you.
Seju: I'm rather a very busy person.
and upon Sungji's excitement, Seju had that smirk XD
Tell me again that this is all a series of aimless impulses. XD

read ch9's dinner talk between Sumin and Seju.. and again, if you couldn't see what's going on still.. then nothing will convince you.

we could live in peace with that, no biggies XD

Enk

Sumin is the leader of the management team and Sungji got hired for a position for the management team so they would have always met at one point in time.

good, and who placed the pieces on the chess table ?

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 4:26PM

Enk

Read Nora's post for more. I would go back to the chapter she pointed out.

We'll agree to disagree. Sometimes I wonder what's the point.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 4:24PM

The problem here is you're trying to convince me of some other point, I never even once misunderstood what Seju's position was. I merely stated that unless no one in the company can hire anyone but Seju, then there is a good chance that Sungji would still be hired.

good, but she was the one creating the position in her company in the first place and deciding to meet the person applying there personally. so again you are conforming not defying.
since she made those choices when she didn't have to, then they are not mere impulses or undeliberate.

btw, Enk.. are you familiar with Game Theory.. if yes then imagine a multiple stages 2 players game, extensive form (tree form).. imagine a backward induction solution method.

if not, then try thinking of a decision tree. Any logical, intelligent business person think in those sequences. Gyeomji is a finance graduate, Business school.. so this is somewhat relevant.

Enk

I apologize if I made it sound like I was just talking about you. I was not, it's just a trend I've seen over the years, not just with this manhwa. Politics is a good example right now.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 4:38PM

mpgpeg

I agree, there is no point so I'll stop bothering with discussing the manwha.

I apologize if I made it sound like I was just talking about you. I was not, it's just a trend I've seen over the years, not just with this manhwa. Politics is a good example right now.

I am witnessing posts removal.. but it's okay, the discussion is public.. it may be relevant to a lurker or two XD .. no regrets.

last edited at Aug 15, 2017 4:39PM

Nora89

I feel bad now... Oh no, was that my evil twin?

mpgpeg

was that my evil twin?

you have one ?!! o.O
I couldn't see it XD

I feel bad now... Oh no,

why would you?.. it's up to anyone to use the delete button and discuss whenever they want to XD

Nora89

you have one ?!! o.O
I couldn't see it XD

XD

why would you?.. it's up to anyone to use the delete button and discuss whenever they want to XD

True... Thanks. :)

Foxy Lady's and Nora's Seju sounds unlikable.

Oh no, was that my evil twin?

It can't have been your evil twin as long as you're still jpeg XDDD

It can't have been your evil twin as long as you're still jpeg XDDD

Haha right. XD