Forum › Nanoha BetrayerS discussion
I hope this isn't canon
... Well, this is new for me. Art style is awesome, story-telling was quite confusing since I still didn't get the last part, only that there is a new "TSAB" and their leader is Vivio, the new TSAB becoming the original in terms of service, the people are all a part of Hayate's scheme, and Nanoha is pretty cool with that jacket on...
Other than that, I'm lost at some of them.
There was actually a short continuation released recently...a shame I didn't notice otherwise I would have bought it. There's also an illustration book that was done a year ago which I would have liked too.
Like it showed in the first page, there were TSAB rules that were listed there but I didn't bother reading it since it was sideways and tilting my head was too troubling...
But yeah, it really isn't canon (except for StrikerS that subtly said that "physical weapons" and cloning were 'bad') but the development of physical weapons and battle androids goes against the rules set in this doujin. The author should have provided a small back-story on how the plan was made to avoid confusion. Then again, it probably was only me who was confused.
I can't remember some of the side characters names, but here we go.
The use of physical weapons (guns) grew amongst the people of the dimensions and resulted in a staggering increase in murder and instability. To counter this, the governmental use of androids and guns was proposed but rejected by the TSAB due to their charter forbidding it, until Subaru and Ginga's father was killed and support for the proposal grew. After it was still rejected, Hayate initiated a coup and instilled her godfather as the new Council Leader who would approve the proposition and pretty much gave Hayate an army of androids. Fate and the others refused to recognize the new council and were declared traitors who are now fighting to return the TSAB to its former state. The rebels revealed all this to the public to cause some of the people to revolt to their side, and used Vivio as something to unify the rebels, the church, the ones who just revolted, and every other faction opposed to the New Council. According to Signum and Agito, this was all part of Hayate's plan to divide the world into two groups and, seemingly, determine which group was better.
I really wish they would release a proper sequel/conclusion to this considering it's loads better than Force. Nanoha, Fate, Signum, and all the rest have someone to fight who's actually on their level without having some bullshit anti-magic, there's no new male protagonist who can kill everyone by thinking it, and, most importantly, those jackets are badass.
I can't remember some of the side characters names, but here we go.
The use of physical weapons (guns) grew amongst the people of the dimensions and resulted in a staggering increase in murder and instability. To counter this, the governmental use of androids and guns was proposed but rejected by the TSAB due to their charter forbidding it, until Subaru and Ginga's father was killed and support for the proposal grew. After it was still rejected, Hayate initiated a coup and instilled her godfather as the new Council Leader who would approve the proposition and pretty much gave Hayate an army of androids. Fate and the others refused to recognize the new council and were declared traitors who are now fighting to return the TSAB to its former state. The rebels revealed all this to the public to cause some of the people to revolt to their side, and used Vivio as something to unify the rebels, the church, the ones who just revolted, and every other faction opposed to the New Council. According to Signum and Agito, this was all part of Hayate's plan to divide the world into two groups and, seemingly, determine which group was better.
I really wish they would release a proper sequel/conclusion to this considering it's loads better than Force. Nanoha, Fate, Signum, and all the rest have someone to fight who's actually on their level without having some bullshit anti-magic, there's no new male protagonist who can kill everyone by thinking it, and, most importantly, those jackets are badass.
You explained it perfectly,and I agree that this is WAY more interesting than the canon sequels =w=
I also agree with you there and the usage of Vivio was well done. Now, I want to search all of this author's creation of Nanoha that are not NanoFate but plain action and full of badass-ness.
Really wish that the anime would recognize this... and FUND THAT JACKET!
I also agree with you there and the usage of Vivio was well done. Now, I want to search all of this author's creation of Nanoha that are not NanoFate but plain action and full of badass-ness.
Really wish that the anime would recognize this... and FUND THAT JACKET!
Their website:
http://www10.plala.or.jp/strangestone/
They do quite a bit of smut, so NSFW. Keeping an eye out for the next event they're attending so I can get the newer Betrayers stuff hopefully.
Their website:
http://www10.plala.or.jp/strangestone/They do quite a bit of smut, so NSFW. Keeping an eye out for the next event they're attending so I can get the newer Betrayers stuff hopefully.
I visited the site. One of the problems of people who doesn't understand Japanese, nor read and speak it.
sigh I should probably learn some and contribute even if it's just a little.
I can't remember some of the side characters names, but here we go.
The use of physical weapons (guns) grew amongst the people of the dimensions and resulted in a staggering increase in murder and instability. To counter this, the governmental use of androids and guns was proposed but rejected by the TSAB due to their charter forbidding it, until Subaru and Ginga's father was killed and support for the proposal grew. After it was still rejected, Hayate initiated a coup and instilled her godfather as the new Council Leader who would approve the proposition and pretty much gave Hayate an army of androids. Fate and the others refused to recognize the new council and were declared traitors who are now fighting to return the TSAB to its former state. The rebels revealed all this to the public to cause some of the people to revolt to their side, and used Vivio as something to unify the rebels, the church, the ones who just revolted, and every other faction opposed to the New Council. According to Signum and Agito, this was all part of Hayate's plan to divide the world into two groups and, seemingly, determine which group was better.
I really wish they would release a proper sequel/conclusion to this considering it's loads better than Force. Nanoha, Fate, Signum, and all the rest have someone to fight who's actually on their level without having some bullshit anti-magic, there's no new male protagonist who can kill everyone by thinking it, and, most importantly, those jackets are badass.
Problem is, they are all so heavy out of character. Why the hell did they not inform Fate about this plan? Nanoha and Fate fighting with Nanoha not even explaining her reasons? Seriously? That is the most stupid, artificial drama ever.
Problem is, they are all so heavy out of character. Why the hell did they not inform Fate about this plan? Nanoha and Fate fighting with Nanoha not even explaining her reasons? Seriously? That is the most stupid, artificial drama ever.
Maybe they assumed, rather reasonably, that Fate wouldn't really approve of causing a massive civil war for the sake of finding out whether the authoritarian crackdown or the lax instability was better? After assuming that, giving her the information that the entire war was orchestrated for such a reason by Hayate would turn Hayate from high ranking military official into the most hated person in the universe, sabotaging both the New Council and Hayate's chances of surviving.
And, even if Fate would agree to all of this (unlikely), putting her on the side of the New Council takes the rebellion's only chance of actually succeeding away from them. It's already lopsided in favor of the New Council, so imagine taking Fate, the rebellion's most powerful mage and commander, away from them. You can't really determine which government is better when one side could completely crush the other without the use of the controversial guns and androids.
As for Nanoha not explaining her reasons, see above if you want to assume she's doing this for the same reason as Hayate. She might also prefer the more authoritarian government over what came before, and Fate disagreed, causing the divide between them. Sure, they love each other and would rather not fight, but they're adults now and sometimes how the entire universe will be governed takes precedence over personal feelings.
Fate is visibly conflicted about it, while Nanoha seems to have steeled herself, which fits their personalities. Fate is overly caring and nurturing; adopting orphaned children and being the one who generally "spoils" Vivio. Nanoha, on the other hand, is ruthless and disciplined; shooting down Teana for her irresponsible behavior and consistently making Vivio stand on her own instead of helping her. Their personalities pretty much fit how they've acted in BetrayerS, from which side they're on to how they act in battle.
last edited at Feb 9, 2014 3:52PM
Fate clearly does not know what is going on. If she knew what was going on she would avoid fighting because it would be exactly that what Hayate wants. Look at what Fate says during their fight. She clearly has no idea what is going on and why Nanoha is fighting her.
Bah posted to early.
Also, don't try to apply the real life logic. It is an Anime/Manga universe. Those three would never fight each other. It is only a Fanfic, a bad one i would even say. It tries to be dark and edgy so hard that it ruins the characters and their dynamics. So much that you could just take any other canon and put it into this scenario.
Fate clearly does not know what is going on. If she knew what was going on she would avoid fighting because it would be exactly that what Hayate wants. Look at what Fate says during their fight. She clearly has no idea what is going on and why Nanoha is fighting her.
Which is, as I said, probably what everyone intended. Chrono caused a massive revolt by revealing that the New Council is using physical weapons and androids to hunt down rebel mages. Imagine the fallout if Fate revealed that Hayate intended to (and later started) a huge civil war to decide on what government to use. And, prior to their fight, Fate assumed Nanoha was being coerced into fighting, but Nanoha corrected her by saying that she chose this.
Also, don't try to apply the real life logic. It is an Anime/Manga universe. Those three would never fight each other. It is only a Fanfic, a bad one i would even say. It tries to be dark and edgy so hard that it ruins the characters and their dynamics. So much that you could just take any other canon and put it into this scenario.
You have a problem with the doujin ruining the characters but have yet to say exactly why it ruins the characters other than some unqualified statement that they would never fight each other. I've already explained why they might and how everything they've done fits quite well with their personalities so, unless you're going to just reply with "you can't use logic," you have to do a bit more than repeating how it ruined the characters if you want to actually justify your opinion.
I have no problem with you disliking it (opinions and all that), but your opinion seems grounded in faulty reasoning. Just because it's a fictional world doesn't mean that you can just reject logic and the reasonable progression of characters and their dynamics as the world changes around them.
I think I might help. Which pages do you have problem in? All of them?
I thank you for the thoughts but it is not needed... more like, I won't have any idea what I will do about it. I prefer that destiny takes over and hopefully shows the sequel of this doujin.
I am hanging on to you, Remilia Scarlet!
I think I might help. Which pages do you have problem in? All of them?
I thank you for the thoughts but it is not needed... more like, I won't have any idea what I will do about it. I prefer that destiny takes over and hopefully shows the sequel of this doujin.
I am hanging on to you, Remilia Scarlet!
GAAAAAAARRRH!! I SHALL EAT YOU!! (Th10.5)
last edited at Feb 9, 2014 6:57PM
I have no problem with you disliking it (opinions and all that), but your opinion seems grounded in faulty reasoning. Just because it's a fictional world doesn't mean that you can just reject logic and the reasonable progression of characters and their dynamics as the world changes around them.
Well i do not reject logic, i just reject "real world" logic on a fictional setting. Nanoha and Fate being enemies just seems very wrong for this setting. Just looking at that makes it feel wrong to me. That is not the Nanoha franchise, it is a fanfic. Of course, anybody can write one and everybody is free to enjoy it (or hate it).
I just can't see that characters going that way. That development does not convince me that both would go this extreme way. Neither would Hayate. They would find a way to work together. Sure, they would disagree on certain things but never actual fight. It is a forced plot to make an edgy and dark Doujin for the sake of being edgy and dark.
Well i do not reject logic, i just reject "real world" logic on a fictional setting. Nanoha and Fate being enemies just seems very wrong for this setting. Just looking at that makes it feel wrong to me. That is not the Nanoha franchise, it is a fanfic. Of course, anybody can write one and everybody is free to enjoy it (or hate it).
I just can't see that characters going that way. That development does not convince me that both would go this extreme way. Neither would Hayate. They would find a way to work together. Sure, they would disagree on certain things but never actual fight. It is a forced plot to make an edgy and dark Doujin for the sake of being edgy and dark.
The thing is, we've never seen Nanoha and Fate really disagree about anything as important as the fate of the universe. Neither have we seen any of the characters deal with the sudden murder of a close friend and relative, as well as widespread violence and instability that doesn't have a Precia or Jail to shoot and immediately end. No one here can say that Nanoha would never support a police state while Fate supports the old way if such a question came up (though their personalities, as mentioned before, do fit with how they aligned here), nor could we say that Hayate wouldn't take certain actions in a unstable political climate.
Simply because no issue has come up in the canon where they weren't able to work together and sort out any differences (have they ever had differences after the first season?), does not mean that they would always be capable of working something out. If you truly believe that the three of them could never irreconcilably disagree about something and come to blows over it, I guess there's just nothing to do about it but disagree.
And, as a side note, pretty much everyone's faces on page 56 are awesome if you're able to pull yourself away from looking at Rein warming herself on the coffee cup.
I am hanging on to you, Remilia Scarlet!
GAAAAAAARRRH!! I SHALL EAT YOU!! (Th10.5)
Fandom Tenshi: hehehe, eat me more drools
I am hanging on to you, Remilia Scarlet!
GAAAAAAARRRH!! I SHALL EAT YOU!! (Th10.5)
Fandom Tenshi: hehehe, eat me more drools
Really, what are we doing here... Pfft...
I am hanging on to you, Remilia Scarlet!
GAAAAAAARRRH!! I SHALL EAT YOU!! (Th10.5)
Fandom Tenshi: hehehe, eat me more drools
Really, what are we doing here... Pfft...
Honestly, I have no idea but it's entertaining~
Almost ten years since and I'm still in the dark about the continuation.
I think it's still "NOT coming soon"... My guess is that the author has made the statement he set out to make with the first chapter, and wasn't interested in spending more energy on this story. I have mixed feelings about that: the art is gorgeous, but the core premise feels to like such a perversion of the core ideals of Nanohaverse that I feel an almost visceral aversion towards it.