^*I did say* the only part I'm confused about is why Seju seems to be trying to push the two together.

And, well, their passive-aggressive conversation seemed very passive. The smirk at the end was because Sumin said that Seju was the one who knew what she liked. That could be interpreted in lots of ways. She could simply be happy about the statement.

I could throw back a similar question to you. If Seju wants to control Sumin, why is she constantly pushing Sumin to be with Sungji?

Bang, that's exactly another kind of control, if I know someone arranged this for me, I would feel really offended, even whom I love was in your plan, are u kidding me?

I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying this has nothing to do with Seju controlling Sumin. I don't see how Sumin would agree to this arrangement if Sumin has no interest in Sungji at all. Unless that red-haired girl and that brown-haired girl and all Sumin's ex-girlfriends are arrangements made by Seju. As Satsuki has said, Sumin is not an innocent girl too. Don't forget she seduced red-haired and tried to seduce Sungji. How can she be that weak and be controlled by Seju when she knows how to control other people, at least to a certain level? She is a team leader, leading a group of men who sort of fear her. When did Sumin become a damsel in distress?

From what I see, if Sumin doesn't want to be controlled, Seju has no way to it.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:36AM

^*I did say* the only part I'm confused about is why Seju seems to be trying to push the two together.

And, well, their passive-aggressive conversation seemed very passive. The smirk at the end was because Sumin said that Seju was the one who knew what she liked. That could be interpreted in lots of ways. She could simply be happy about the statement.

Uh...did you even read their whole convo? lol. It went something like (this is off the top of my head, so excuse me if I'm wrong):

Sumin: Why ask me when you already know my tastes? (talking about the piece of jewelry Seju bought for her or w/e)
Seju: Hm? I bought it based on my tastes though.
Seju: Did that hurt your pride?
blah blah blah
Sumin: You said something like you fancy Sungji-ssi, right?
Seju: Yes, she's young and pretty.
blah blah blah
Seju: Do you like Sungji-ssi?
Sumin: I don't plan on doing anything to her.
Seju: I asked if you liked her.
Sumin: You know my tastes, so why ask?

It's hard to interpret Sumin's last sentence as anything other than a passive-aggressive attack towards Seju. And a smirking panel with shadows over Seju's eyes? Um, that hardly seems "happy" to me.

How can she be that weak and be controlled by Seju when she knows how to control other people, at least to a certain level? She is a team leader, leading a group of men who sort of fear her. When did Sumin become a damsel in distress?

If she's so emotionally strong, please explain to me why she won't end her unhealthy relationship with Seju, when she clearly dislikes her.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:38AM

^touché?

Excellent points you brought up dawny.

If she's so emotionally strong, please explain to me why she won't end her unhealthy relationship with Seju, when she clearly dislikes her.

How did you conclude Sumin clearly dislikes Seju? Um, she's working for her company and they're friends with benefits. You kinda lost me there?

EDIT: I see no reason how being friends with benefits could be considered an "unhealthy" relationship when they're both willing.

last edited at Jul 5, 2015 5:47AM

How can she be that weak and be controlled by Seju when she knows how to control other people, at least to a certain level? She is a team leader, leading a group of men who sort of fear her. When did Sumin become a damsel in distress?==

Sumin may be a good seducer, but she never has the ability to control people. Chapter 4, her gf dumped her, Chapter 17, our poor sumin forcing herself to do strap-on thing just to pleasing red ? Not to mention all her awkward behaviors after she realized her feeling for sungji. u name that controlling?

From what I see, if Sumin doesn't want to be controlled, Seju has no way to it.

O, yes, she has. We discussed that already, sumin is emotionally dependent and seju is the only one she can rely on. No friends, no lover, no family. And she is a cancer, not some tough capricorn who can deal with all the inner problems by herself.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:07AM

Excellent points you brought up dawny.

If she's so emotionally strong, please explain to me why she won't end her unhealthy relationship with Seju, when she clearly dislikes her.

How did you conclude Sumin clearly dislikes Seju? Um, she's working for her company and they're friends with benefits. You kinda lost me there?

I don't want to list every example, but here are some moments:

Seju: Sometimes I feel like you still love me (implies that Sumin no longer loves her)
Sumin: Don't use my perfume, Baek Seju.
Ch.9 scenario (+ points for Sumin's "I'm getting real tired of your shit Seju" glare)
Sumin: (office scene where Sumin tells her beloved Seju to gtfo) I'll make you regret it if you make me say "leave" one more time. (also + points for more menacing glares)

Friends with benefits = emotional trauma dependence, working for her company = financial dependence

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:39AM

How can she be that weak and be controlled by Seju when she knows how to control other people, at least to a certain level? She is a team leader, leading a group of men who sort of fear her. When did Sumin become a damsel in distress?

If she's so emotionally strong, please explain to me why she won't end her unhealthy relationship with Seju, when she clearly dislikes her.

She is emotionally dependent on Seju, that does not necessarily mean that a domineering Seju is controlling her. Even if Sumin is controlled by Seju, it is could probably be Sumin's own doing subconsciously. Seju can never forcefully control Sumin based on the Sumin's cold attitude. Sumin would probably just push Seju away further. It takes two hands to clap.

But now, it seems that some think it is Seju's fault that Sumin keeps going back to her. Like Seju has to bear all consequences for Sumin's actions.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:40AM

those scenarios seems like Sumin is being a tsundere, lol. Well I guess she's trying to prevent Seju from getting closer because she doesn't want anything more than being friends with benefits. But that does NOT mean she clearly dislikes her. Haha

^for halmonie

last edited at Jul 5, 2015 5:54AM

She is emotionally dependent on Seju, that does not necessarily mean that a domineering Seju is controlling her. Even if Sumin is controlled by Seju, it is could probably be Sumin's own doing subconsciously. Seju can never forcefully control Sumin based on the Sumin's cold attitude. Sumin would probably just push Seju away further. It takes two hands to clap.

But now, it seems that some think it is Seju's fault that Sumin keeps going back to her. Like Seju has to bear all consequences for Sumin's actions.

Sumin's own doing subconsciously =/= It takes two hands to clap
emotionally dependent on Seju =/= Sumin's cold attitude

Sorry for sounding like an asshole, but your argument just doesn't add up. Who was the one that caused Sumin to become such an emotionally dependent wreck?

those scenarios seems like Sumin is being a tsundere, lol. Well I guess she's trying to prevent Seju from getting closer because she doesn't want anything more than being friends with benefits. But that does NOT mean she clearly dislikes her. Haha

^for halmonie

So it's normal to give someone you like death glares just because you're being a cute lil' "tsundere" uguuuu? I wouldn't recommend trying to label such complex characters with simple archetypes to dismiss the significance of their actions. Seju shattered Sumin's heart into a million pieces at her most vulnerable moment. It'd be weird if she didn't dislike Seju.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:42AM

Sumin's own doing subconsciously =/= It takes two hands to clap
emotionally dependent on Seju =/= Sumin's cold attitude

Sorry for sounding like an asshole, but your argument just doesn't add up. Who was the one that caused Sumin to become such an emotionally dependent wreck?

Sorry for sounding like an asshole. But are you saying that Sumin is embraces very well to Seju? Or are you saying Sumin is not emotionally dependent on Seju? Both points are very valid in my opinion. Unless you want to refute them.

Sumin's own doing subconsciously = It takes two hands to clap
because Sumin is willing subconsciously. If you do understand what I am trying to say. I don't see how this doesn't add up.

OverdiseaZ:

Someone know halmoni blog "link" ? i want to thx her personnaly if she doesn't have one then "thank you" here :p

http://halmoniswag.tumblr.com/

Click "Message" on the left to send her an "ask". Or go to here.

Français?

Yes :p

She is emotionally dependent on Seju, that does not necessarily mean that a domineering Seju is controlling her. Even if Sumin is controlled by Seju, it is could probably be Sumin's own doing subconsciously. Seju can never forcefully control Sumin based on the Sumin's cold attitude. Sumin would probably just push Seju away further. It takes two hands to clap.

It's not because there exists something forceful that i call it control, it's just I feel seju somehow abuses her influence on sumin and thus trapped her(may or may not on purpose) in this weakness, because she loves sumin, wants to take care of her and keep her in life, unfortunately that kind of way won't save sumin from her trauma.
For sumin, there is no choice due to her vulnerability, for seju, I don't know, I think she knows the situation and simply don't wanna change.

It's not because there exists something forceful that i call it control, it's just I feel seju somehow abuses her influence on sumin and thus trapped her(may or may not on purpose) in this weakness, because she loves sumin, wants to take care of her and keep her in life, unfortunately that kind of way won't save sumin from her trauma.

This is something that I call a valid point and I accept your argument. However, Seju abuses her influence is just an assumption. Guess we will just wait for more chapters to find out.

last edited at Jul 5, 2015 6:22AM

http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/what_does_the_fox_say_ch02#19

is the best page here.

Sumin's own doing subconsciously = It takes two hands to clap
because Sumin is willing subconsciously. If you do understand what I am trying to say. I don't see how this doesn't add up.

having no choice and doing it subconsciously still have big difference. And sumin definitely didn't do anything subconsciously even the last scene in chapter 14. But u are right each kind of relationship takes two hands to clap. Only I think seju is the one who can change this situation if she wants, not sumin (she is, yeah, as we all agree, an emotionally dependent wreck)

BTW, I've listed a lot of things I count as a controlling deed in the previous posts. It's not an assumption that seju is more or less controlling. But it seems u think those things are just another kind of caring and love where I see them as really annoying prying.

I don't wanna report to someone whom I date, whom I sleep with, is there someone I want to meet, if I have new friends or not, if I'm interested in some cutie in the office

And if I have someone in my heart, I just don't wanna see anyone who is not relevant to step into my business against my will whether she has a good intention or not.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:04AM

^Most of your arguments have been refuted. And it IS an assumption because we don't have definite proof that she is more or less controlling.

The fact is, we haven't got a clue what's Seju's intentions are since we haven't gotten a glimpse into her perspective unlike Sungji and Sumin. Basically at this point, it's all just assumptions and speculations (like Seju seem to be pushing Sungji and Sumin together).

Edit:

I don't wanna report to someone whom I date, whom I sleep with, is there someone I want to meet, if I have new friends or not, if I'm interested in some cutie in the office

Again, Seju has not been forcing Sumin to tell her about her relationships, It's Sumin who opens up to Seju. Although Seju did ask about what Sumin thinks about Sungji, they're just having regular conversations and not "Seju-coaxing-Sumin-to-spill-the-beans". Sumin has the choice to not respond to Seju. It's not like she's scared of her y'know, she even tells Seju to get out of her office.

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 4:26AM

having no choice and doing it subconsciously still have big difference. And sumin definitely didn't do anything subconsciously even the last scene in chapter 14. But u are right each kind of relationship takes two hands to clap. Only I think seju is the one who can change this situation if she wants, not sumin (she is, yeah, as we all agree, an emotionally dependent wreck, lol)

BTW, I've listed a lot of things I count as a controlling dead in the previous posts. It's not an assumption that seju is more or less controlling.

All those deeds that you've mentioned, I have already given my views why I think they are not valid. It is fine if you don't feel that way. I am not here to change your opinion or argue endlessly. I am here to add my opinion for forum friends to convince me otherwise with valid arguments and for others to read and make their own judgement.

^Most of your arguments have been refuted. And it IS an assumption because we don't have definite proof that she is more or less controlling.

what kind of definite proof do u need? I don't think we have to wait for seju doing some sinuous evil deeds that we can finally call it controlling, as a matter of fact, I don't really think it will happen.
Controlling is not a necessarily malicious thing, rather it's mostly one kind of love.

Again, Seju has not been forcing Sumin to tell her about her relationships, It's Sumin who opens up to Seju. Although Seju did ask about what Sumin thinks about Sungji, they're just having regular conversations and not "Seju-coaxing-Sumin-to-spill-the-beans". Sumin has the choice to not respond to Seju. It's not like she's scared of her y'know, she even tells Seju to get out of her office.

It seems to me sumin is not that open to seju about her private life if she is not in a frustrated mood, and after chapter 14, I doubt that's not the first time seju using some trick to get the information sumin don't wanna share with her.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:02AM

clairesun

Ah, well you make it sound so sinister. "Controlling is mostly one kind of love," I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean.

Again, Seju has not been forcing Sumin to tell her about her relationships, It's Sumin who opens up to Seju. Although Seju did ask about what Sumin thinks about Sungji, they're just having regular conversations and not "Seju-coaxing-Sumin-to-spill-the-beans". Sumin has the choice to not respond to Seju. It's not like she's scared of her y'know, she even tells Seju to get out of her office.

It seems to me sumin is not that open to seju about her private life if she is not in a frustrated mood

The key phrase there is "it seems to me".

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 6:47AM

Ah, well you make it sound so sinister. "Controlling is mostly one kind of love," I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean.

lol, sorry to make u confused, there is no need to be controlling if seju doesn't love sumin, I never doubt that,
And seju, as I can tell, she cannot love sumin as a lover but she can love her like a family member, we know sumin's cold and ignoring attitude, that's why she tends to know the details of sumin's life because sumin just won't tell her in a normal way. If there is no psycho trauma exists, the weakness of sumin's personality won't be a big problem and we will have a happy couple ever after. But let's face it, the trauma makes everything different.

It seems to me sumin is not that open to seju about her private life if she is not in a frustrated mood

The key phrase there is "it seems to me".

Actually, you cannot even find a scene where sumin tell seju her life detail voluntarily when she is not in depression. only one exception, chapter9 she told seju her coming out to sungji and that seems to me (lol) it's because she is having a great desire to talk about the blonde.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:01AM

I'm just wondering, do you suddenly burst out laughing when you type? I can't take you seriously when you keep randomly adding lol. Pfft.

Anyway, there wasn't any doubt that Seju doesn't feel affection for Sumin since the beginning so you're basically just pointing out the obvious, lol.

last edited at Jul 5, 2015 8:08AM

I'm just wondering, do you suddenly burst out laughing when you type? I can't take you seriously when you keep randomly adding lol. Pfft.

Anyway, there wasn't any doubt that Seju doesn't feel affection for Sumin since the beginning so you're basically just pointing out the obvious, lol.

yeah, I really burst out laughing when I see the word "sinister", originally it's typed as "hahaha" but i replaced it with "lol".

BUT I‘M SERIOUS in what I'm saying. I SWEAR!

last edited at Jul 5, 2015 8:15AM

How very insightful and cute.

Chapter 6 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/6