This feels like a real-life situation, though. A friend that is pretty carefree with her words and a friend who's used to those kinds of words from her. It would be a bit hard to comprehend an actual sincere confession from a passing remark, wouldn't it?

Haha, that last expression by Matsuri on page 22 made me laugh. She's so emabrassed

maybe, maybe not. remember, she was blushing when the guy confessed to her as well.

Yes, she is flustered. Being confessed to by a random stranger in the middle of the street will do that. Compare that blush to the others, the difference in intensity is significant.

Also look at Matsuri's character here. She is established as cocky, snarky and she had no problem reproaching Koyuki before. If she is indeed straight, she is either a raging, disgusted homophobe - which, considering the author's past works and the magazine this ran in, is about as likely as her being half dinosaur - or she would have flat-out rejected her, even if it hurt her friend. The only scenario where this shrinking violet routine is not completely out of character is "I'm struggling with emotions I didn't expect from that direction" kind of inner turmoil.

And Koyuki's main established character trait is that she's stubborn. The entire story is about a girl who didn't give up getting her feelings across even after failing 70+ times and succeeded at end. The implication here is that she will now try to get the girl "for a while" and finally accomplish that as well.

^: this.

:3 Now I'm looking forward to new shots from the undeniable mangaka ~

may I enjoy the next oneshots as well.

Haha, oh man. Lip service is also my forte, so I can relate here.

Its all fun and games until both of them realize its for real, eh?

Also look at Matsuri's character here. She is established as cocky, snarky and she had no problem reproaching Koyuki before. If she is indeed straight, she is either a raging, disgusted homophobe - which, considering the author's past works and the magazine this ran in, is about as likely as her being half dinosaur - or she would have flat-out rejected her, even if it hurt her friend. The only scenario where this shrinking violet routine is not completely out of character is "I'm struggling with emotions I didn't expect from that direction" kind of inner turmoil.

You may be right, but it might also be that Matsuri is now just so afraid of Koyuki that she cannot bring herself to talk to her. Still, it's a good sign that Koyuki is still invited to the Christmas party, even though it's no longer just the two of them.

But I am glad that Koyuki was finally able to get her feelings across.

I do enjoy a good debate, so let's extend this a little longer. ;-)

Yes, she is flustered. Being confessed to by a random stranger in the middle of the street will do that. Compare that blush to the others, the difference in intensity is significant.

Talvalis, you are projecting. better yet, that is your perception and how you interpreted it.. I disagree, but that's my opinion.

Also look at Matsuri's character here. She is established as cocky, snarky and she had no problem reproaching Koyuki before. If she is indeed straight, she is either a raging, disgusted homophobe - which, considering the author's past works and the magazine this ran in, is about as likely as her being half dinosaur - or she would have flat-out rejected her, even if it hurt her friend. The only scenario where this shrinking violet routine is not completely out of character is "I'm struggling with emotions I didn't expect from that direction" kind of inner turmoil.

I would not consider Koyuki a raging homophobe, but the shrinking violet example "could" fit this scenario, but not for the reasons you are alluding to and here is why:

1. for all the 70+ times Matsuri rejected Koyuki, she took each confession as a joke. however, even straight people miss obvious clues and because she took those seemingly benign admissions as jokes, they were non-threatening because to her, they were a joke.
2. There is still the possibility that her final reactions are from fear because a girl, gasp, liked her. but equally it could be because she cannot deal with the fact that a girl likes her because she too likes Koyuki. As I stated earlier, we the readers are not given enough information to come to a final conclusion and thus the situation it ambiguous.
3. Just because a story ends up in a Yuri/Shoujo Ai publication does not mean that the all characters will play to that genre. There still is the possibility that Matsuri is straight (if you will) and just isn't into Koyuki. It's not like it doesn't happen in real life.

But let's play devil's advocate here... OK, Matsuri is just a little overwhelmed and ignores Koyuki because the situation is just too much for her to handle. Fine, but as I mentioned previously, Koyuki is wasting energy and effort. However, she does seem persistent , but so what? There is no follow-up story, so we the readers won't know what will happen. this is both an exercise in futility and in using our imagination to fill in the blanks for how we'd like the story to end.

And Koyuki's main established character trait is that she's stubborn. The entire story is about a girl who didn't give up getting her feelings across even after failing 70+ times and succeeded at end. The implication here is that she will now try to get the girl "for a while" and finally accomplish that as well.

Well good for Koyuki, however if we project real life on this situation, would you not agree that Koyuki is in denial and may very well be wasting her time?

So again, it's all a matter of perception. if you want Koyuki to get the girl, then Matsuri is running away from her emotions. If you think that Matsuri is "not into that," then Koyuki is engaging in a endless game of wait-and-see . Either way, at the end of the story, girl does not get girl.

Disclaimer: like all posts, it's an opinion. nothing more, nothing less. Btw, for the sake of cutting this debate short, I respectfully reject your original argument. but heck, you seem to respectfully reject my arguments. Shall we both agree to disagree and leave it at that?

last edited at Dec 22, 2013 10:44AM

Ehh ? What? What? Did I miss the ending >_<

Talvalis, you are projecting. better yet, that is your perception

Perception is a nice word, because my interpretation is founded on what you can actually see in the story. Manga is a visual medium, you cannot ignore visual cues.

1. Just because a story ends up in a Yuri/Lolicon publication does not mean that the all characters will play to that genre.

Yes, it kinda does. Now, you can subvert a genre, you can deconstruct it, you can have a bad end. But that isn't done off-panel. If the last panel in a yaoi story published in a yaoi anthology is two guys looking at the sunset, the implication isn't that they will start dating women and be bros4life. Unless you are a yuri fan obviously, because in their mindset, if you cannot see the Enterprise safely parked in space dock after warping away at the end of an episode, it obviously got eaten by a space dragon mid-flight. A straight, male space dragon.

Well good for Koyuki, however if we project real life on this situation

This isn't real life, it's fiction. Fiction uses tropes and symmetry. Her first game of wait-and-see, 'wasted energy and effort' wasn't endless or futile and this one won't be either. That makes immensely more sense to me as a story structure then "Oh hey, as a special treat for all my readers who went out and bought my yuri tankoubon in addition to the magazine, I've added a few pages that turns a hopeful good end into a she's-totally-straight bad one. You're welcome!"

Perception is a nice word, because my interpretation is founded on what you can actually see in the story. Manga is a visual medium, you cannot ignore visual cues.

This is true, which is why I used the word perception. how you interpret visual queues is different from how I have interpreted them. otherwise we would not be having this exchange. btw, I have based my argument mostly on the dialogue. which when in doubt or less doubt is a wonderful arbiter.

Yes, it kinda does. Now, you can subvert a genre, you can deconstruct it, you can have a bad end. But that isn't done off-panel. If the last panel in a yaoi story published in a yaoi anthology is two guys looking at the sunset, the implication isn't that they will start dating women and be bros4life. Unless you are a yuri fan obviously, because in their mindset, if you cannot see the Enterprise safely parked in space dock after warping away at the end of an episode, it obviously got eaten by a space dragon mid-flight. A straight, male space dragon.

Hahaha... Now I like what you are trying to argue, but I am merely saying that because the ending, and this ending in particular is ambiguous, we the readers are left to make up our own conclusions for how it ends. Unless... a follow-up story is written. Btw, who's to say that at the end of a yaoi story the two guys don't end up as bro's for life. it could happen ;-)

This isn't real life, it's fiction. Fiction uses tropes and symmetry. Her first game of wait-and-see, 'wasted energy and effort' wasn't endless or futile and this one won't be either. That makes immensely more sense to me as a story structure then

it is fiction, but reality often provides material and inspiration from which a story is crafted. and yes, a mangaka could very well write a Yuri tankoubon and have a one shot where btw, this one story has a Yuri character falling for a straight girl cuz gee, it can happen and this might make for an interesting story. But I can only speculate about that last statement and only point it out as an example.

Talvalis - thank you very much. this has been a most enjoyable discourse.

last edited at Dec 22, 2013 11:58PM

Thing is… you do not know if she would have actually reacted to same way after the initial confession by the boy.. It looked to me more that she didn't take what Koyuki said at face value not just because she didn't think about a girl as a possible romanic possibility but the idea of being seen as attractive at all and finding out that all this time Koyuki was in fact not BSing not only made her now overly self conscious but feeling a little embarrassed be how she had always responded to actual confessions by Koyuki. That's what I got out of it anyway.

last edited at Dec 23, 2013 12:29AM

a mangaka could very well write a Yuri tankoubon and have a one shot where btw, this one story has a Yuri character falling for a straight girl

Sure, if that's how the story was conceived. That wasn't the case here though, I think you missed my point. The original story, as published in the magazine, ended here: http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/lip_service_woman_and_the_impregnable_maiden#22

If that had been all we got, this wouldn't warrant 3 pages of comments. Girl tries to get her feelings across, succeeds, other girl shows promise, story done.

The last 4 pages are a bonus in the tankoubon collection of this author's yuri oneshots. Even disregarding all the other points, attaching an implied bad end as a reader bonus for a story that originally ended on a more hopeful note is such an immensely stupid thing for an author to do I refuse to believe that was ever the intention in the first place.

last edited at Dec 23, 2013 12:53AM

If that had been all we got, this wouldn't warrant 3 pages of comments. Girl tries to get her feelings across, succeeds, other girl shows promise, story done.

sorry, but I see three pages of avoidance. Koyuki even says that is sucks being avoided. also Matsuri is going out of her way to avoid Koyuki. What you are calling three pages of hope, I call futility ( more my opinion than anything else).

I refuse to believe that was ever the intention in the first place.

OK. we just have different opinions then.

Sigh. Missed the point by a mile.

If that had been all we got, this wouldn't warrant 3 pages of comments.

On this forum.

Sigh. Missed the point by a mile.

If that had been all we got, this wouldn't warrant 3 pages of comments.

On this forum.

no I understand what you are saying. just disagree with you. ambiguous still. room for a follow-up? sure. but hasn't happened.

ok, we get the extra pages. so, hope springs eternal... blah blah blah. OK, happy?

OK, that was a bit snarky. let me qualify why I understand your argument, but disagree with it.

1. f rom a first time readers point of view, we see and read dialogue where Koyuki continues to engage with Matsuri. However, Matsuri is going out of her way to avoid the poor girl. This is what I have described as futility on the part of Koyuki for pursuing a "straight girl." Does that ultimately mean that this (Matsuri being straight) is the case? don't know. From pages 21 to the end Matsuri is obviously disturbed by both confessions from the guy and Koyuki and in the case of Koyuki avoids her as clearly as possible.

2. now you on the other hand knew that extra pages were added from the original release in the magazine to the tank. I did not know that and learned something. thanks. so yes, you are correct. the author did go back to add some clarity to the situation. With this extra bit of info, we can guess that Koyuki has a fighting chance. will she ultimately get the girl? Meh, don't know. I will concede this one point that I missed the "end" label on page 22. once I saw it, I reread the story to see if it changed my conclusion. for me, it did not.

However, going back to why I replied to your post in the first place, please refer to point #1. We the readers are presented with a situation where at the end of the story, girl does not get girl. the extra pages just show one side of this equation waiting patiently (hence my hope springs eternal dig for which I apologize) and the other side that we don't know how they will ultimately react. next I rebutted your comment about injecting guys into stories mean that they (the stories) are heterosexual. nope. I think we can both agree that because it is in a Yuri anthology that that is simply not the case. finally, I stick to my guns about disagreeing with your initial points. I just simply did not agree with your statements. plain and simple.

again, thank you for this debate. it really was enjoyable.

last edited at Dec 23, 2013 6:03PM

I liked this, up until the point where there was no resolution. Maybe it's part of a series?

Sure hope so, but lookin at other stuff the mangaka has made... probably not, many of the stuff there have similar endings. The "open ending" nature of a lot of one-shots is really numbing me off (just like cliff hangers, ugh.)

(Both of the one-shots http://dynasty-scans.com/anthologies/laika_pavlov_pochihachikou have a similar endings)

I guess from now on I'll just avoid these or wait for comments to kick in. If I am not gonna be satisfied, why waste my time.

Yeah. Sure, you can speculate, and it's reasonable to assume they get together, but imo I don't find it very satisfying when the mangaka gives up the storytelling and expects the reader to finish it. I like a big of ambiguity or symbolism, but not to the extent where there's no ending whatsoever.

after i read this, i started to imagine my own endings :> *smirk

I expected her to kiss Matsuri so she would stop avoiding her, maybe it would work? :3

lol, i just added it into my "ending imagination"

sorry guys, last spam (lol) :
ahh, i'm just sayin' that this manga is great. the ending is confusing (make us unsatisfied), but great too. the point is, the way you react to it is your freewill. but come on, just think positive, it will all be good once you think positive. think on your own ending (like me). whew :V

This might as be be called "The Witch's Lips" (double pun there, that is her being a lip-service woman and as soemone suggested, after she kisses Matsuri, grins like an idiot, can I squeel?). That's coming from the mind-set of Natsuko in the author's previous manga A Witch's Hand

So...this should have a tragedy tag on it, right?

Definitively

Goodness, is this really a year old? It feels like it was released yesterday...

I want a sequel :(

Cute!

Oh boy, yuri fans and their stupid paranoid victimization routine. Whenever there's any ambiguity about a character's sexual orientation, she must be straight. Whenever a guy shows up for 2 panels, it's going to be het. Whenever the ending is left open, it's BAD END.

There's nothing to indicate that girl's straight. The massive blush and hyper-awareness at the end hints at the exact opposite. And it's a oneshot. Finishing the story in your head however you like is kind of the point of a lot of them.

I agree. Do some yuri fans forget that bisexuality exists? I mean, the bisexual tag exists, but it seems that it only applies when there's cheating involved (ugh!). Where's the non-cheating yuri manga with bi characters? They don't have to like a guy at the same time. I like the idea of a girl falling in love with another girl for the first time and trying to make sense of it given her previous attraction to guys. Are there any good manga that handle this topic fully rather than ignoring the character's struggle? I'd love some recs, and I don't mind oneshots.

I get why some people get paranoid about yuri, though. Yuri has a history of tragic endings when a character dies/marries a guy, as well as moe series that hint at same-gender female romance but eventually shy away from it and act like the characters simply have a romantic two-girl friendship.