I'd read all the articles involving same-sex reproduction, just like parthenogenesis and iPS cell. Last year, there was a huge shocking discovery in Japan. The scientists observed the female medaka (rice fish). They said there was a key gene, called foxl3, in germ cells. Usually germ cells can be turned into sperm and egg. But when the scientists suppressed foxl3 in female medaka, it produced sperm in its ovaries, rather than eggs. The sperm produced in ovaries, has larger amount than the eggs. What a shocking fact that the sperm was normally functioned and fertilized the eggs of another female fish, so it can produce healthy offspring.What I conclude here is, this body of female medaka is still female but there's "male" inside it. That means, the body is independent of the germ cells.
The same experiment also happened in mice. A female mice lacks the same key gene as medaka, called foxl2 and the other called wnt4.This caused the ovaries had transdifferentiated into testis and produced either spermatogonia or testosteron(I don't know which one is true). foxl2 is different than foxl3 because it holds somatic cells' fate, not the germ cells'.
The question is: can it be implemented on human and the other mammals in the future? I don't know but I hope so.

last edited at Jul 4, 2016 8:18PM

If so, then it's a long, long, LONG way in the future. Looks like they've barely begun the investigation phase.

Not even sure what the direct application would be other than to create intersex people on demand.

ekw79 posted:

The question is: can it be implemented on human and the other mammals in the future? I don't know but I hope so.

The even better question is: What would happen if you did this on a woman and used the subsequent sperm to fertilize some of her own eggs?

I wonder if there's some sort of biological mechanism in place that would prevent that from succeeding.

Well, you need to find the same key gene, just like foxl3 in female medaka fish, in human germ cells. It needs hard work. Actually, in another source, foxl3 had a function to prevent the germ cells into sperm inside ovaries.

last edited at Jun 29, 2016 3:25AM

Well, you need to find the same key gene, just like foxl3 in female medaka fish, in human germ cells. It needs hard work. Actually, in another source, foxl3 had a function to prevent the germ cells into sperm inside ovaries.

You also need to deal with the issue that, in humans at least, large amounts of testosterone plus ovaries tends to equal cancer, one of the big risks trans men have to take. So to produce the sperm, even if that gene is turned on, you'd need to do it in vitro to alleviate risk.

Plus you've got a lot of complex relationships between genes that could sour the deal inadvertently, and it sounds like they've barely begun to scratch the surface. It's interesting and exciting from a science point of view, but I'd be amazed if we saw any practical human-related application within either of our lifetimes.

Great fodder for SF stories, though.

Thank you for your opinion!

Alice Cheshire posted:

ekw79 posted:

The question is: can it be implemented on human and the other mammals in the future? I don't know but I hope so.

The even better question is: What would happen if you did this on a woman and used the subsequent sperm to fertilize some of her own eggs?

I wonder if there's some sort of biological mechanism in place that would prevent that from succeeding.

Actually not really anything. In fact, sexual reproduction itself is very fragile. I mean fuck, the eggs contain and entire 46 chromosomes until sperm-egg fusion and one half of the egg's chromosome pairs leave. Self-pregnancy does occur in some whiptail lizards.

That's the true yuri science. The lizards long ago lost all male members. The female lizards then simulate het sex (with mounting and such) and both then lay eggs that just copy themselves.

I mean fuck, the eggs contain and entire 46 chromosomes until sperm-egg fusion and one half of the egg's chromosome pairs leave.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA............... They just pack their bags and leave... No.

The egg cell has 23 chromosomes loooooooooooooooooooong before sperm-egg fusion... I mean, what the fuck, this is high school level knowledge. Perhaps you meant 'oocyte' (46 chromosomes), which is the cell that goes into the meiosis, the end result of which is the egg cell (23 chromosomes). Mature egg cell NEVER has the diploid chromosome structure, I mean, what the hell?? Same goes for the sperm cells. Spermatocyte (46 chromosomes) goes into meiosis, producing spermatid cells (23 chromosomes), which then mature into sperm cells.

Also, I am guessing that the creator of this thread was going for 'females that do not require males any longer for reproduction', in which case I ask: what is the point of this particular discovery? Because if you were driving at that, I highly doubt that those who would be interested in it would want to have their ovaries producing sperm. Better to just go with cloning, where you take the nucleus of a somatic cell and insert it into an egg cell from which its own nucleus was removed, induce the cell to start embryonic development, implant it into a uterus, and voila. While this is actually already a possibility, the development and actual implementation is stalled, since reproductive cloning is illegal in the developed world, if memory serves.

last edited at Jul 4, 2016 2:03PM

Actually, the scientists were very surprised about that discovery. Like I said, the germ cells are independent on the environmental around them. foxl3 was only found in female germ cell inside ovaries. It prevented the germ cells transforming into sperm inside ovaries. If you are talking about intersex, there it is : foxl2 and wnt4 inside female somatic cells. Just read this article about medaka fish.
http://www.biotechniques.com/news/Loss-of-a-Single-Gene-Causes-Ovaries-to-Produce-Sperm/biotechniques-359082.html?service=print#.V4JLhxLmDIU

last edited at Jul 10, 2016 9:29AM