Again, art is beautiful, but I have few feelings when reading the manga of this art

lol, how do you read the art of this manga? are there words present that we can't see?

It's a matter of feelings, not criticism :3

It's subjective, your opinion. but when you give out your opinion regarding a certain subject matter in a negative way (ex; I don't like Citrus because it's cliché.) , it IS called a criticism.

Actually I find this to be a whole lot better than Citrus. (Which is juste another random cliche manga for me. Neither good nor bad).

Again, with the cliché crap. If you can present me another pseudo incest, yuri manga like Citrus, then you have my agreement about it being cliché. If you don't have any manga "like" Citrus then obviously your statement is invalid. Lol.

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 9:24AM

lol, how do you read the art of this manga? are there words present that we can't see?

I think the person was referring to how they read the MANGA of this art. As in, the manga that has this art. I don't think they were referring to reading the ART of this manga.

It's subjective, your opinion. but when you give out your opinion regarding a certain subject matter in a negative way (ex; I don't like Citrus because it's cliché.) , it IS called a criticism.

An opinion can be negative or positive. And a criticism isn't always negative. It can be constructive or presented badly in such a way that it discourages more than encourages.

Again, with the cliché crap. If you can present me another pseudo incest, yuri manga like Citrus, then you have my agreement about it being cliché. If you don't have any manga "like" Citrus then obviously your statement is invalid. Lol.

You don't have to invalidate anyone else's opinion just because it doesn't agree with yours. Can we just respect what other people feel about this manga? We can debate about our different ideas, but telling someone their statement is invalid is a bit...eh. We don't have to agree, but we don't have to ridicule them for not agreeing with us either. :)

lol, how do you read the art of this manga? are there words present that we can't see?

I think the person was referring to how they read the MANGA of this art. As in, the manga that has this art. I don't think they were referring to reading the ART of this manga.

Ha ha I was wowed when see the comment below my post. Anyway, LOL. Of course I read the manga. Thanks.

It's subjective, your opinion. but when you give out your opinion regarding a certain subject matter in a negative way (ex; I don't like Citrus because it's cliché.) , it IS called a criticism.

An opinion can be negative or positive. And a criticism isn't always negative. It can be constructive or presented badly in such a way that it discourages more than encourages.

Oh anyway, I didn't say I don't like Citrus just because it's "blah blah blah". I just feel so.! Like, "you are good and everything but no I don't like you that way ! It just doesn't click with me >__< " Duh. :))
the rest, yeah sure. I like this oneshot..... more than a abit :P X"D

lol, how do you read the art of this manga? are there words present that we can't see?

I think the person was referring to how they read the MANGA of this art. As in, the manga that has this art. I don't think they were referring to reading the ART of this manga.

Again, art is beautiful, but I have few feelings when /reading the manga of this art/

It's subjective, your opinion. but when you give out your opinion regarding a certain subject matter in a negative way (ex; I don't like Citrus because it's cliché.) , it IS called a criticism.

An opinion can be negative or positive. And a criticism isn't always negative. It can be constructive or presented badly in such a way that it discourages more than encourages.

Definition of criticism: the expression of disapproval (I don't like Citrus) of someone or something based on perceived faults (because it's cliché) or mistakes.

I didn't say an opinion cannot be negative or postive. Nor did I say a criticism is ALWAYS negative. I am also aware that there is constructive criticism and that there are critcisms presented badly. So, what's your point? Lol. But in this case his/her opinion was a negative one, a critcism and he/she said that they didn't like the manga because it was cliché. Saying that they didn't like it because it was cliché is a criticism.

You don't have to invalidate anyone else's opinion just because it doesn't agree with yours

I didn't "invalidate" their opinion by saying non-factual things (The things I said weren't subjective, they are factual) like citrus is not a cliché manga because, how many pseudo-incest, yuri mangas have you seen?

We can debate about our different ideas, but telling someone their statement is invalid is a bit...eh.

Well, I gave reasons as to why their statement was invalid. Are you telling me to keep my opinions to myself, and just agree that it was "valid" when it certainly wasn't?

We don't have to agree, but we don't have to ridicule them for not agreeing with us either. :)

If voicing my opinion is wrong (like what you are insinuating as: telling me to not "invalidate" a person's statement even though there are facts to base my statement on) because I ridicule (?) them by saying observable facts, well, aren't you a hypocrite.

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 10:37AM

Gotta get my popcorn. This stuff is cray.

@SecretNamorifan11 - basically, theyre telling you to shut up because their opinion isn't the same as yours. Hahah.

I do agree tho that citrus' story suck. But it's fast-paced so it's a 7/10.

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 10:50AM

I like this manga...probably because I'm simple minded...hehe. As for Citrus, I don't think it's that bad. Sure...it's frustrating with how the two acted now. But there's always a glimpse of hope for those two to be together.

Yeah the credit-page joke crossing over with Citrus. That' what I've been thinking about during reading this oneshot.

No, it was reading the ART of this manga. And I quote:

Again, art is beautiful, but I have few feelings when /reading the manga of this art/

The poster just clarified that they meant the manga and not the art.

Definition of criticism: the expression of disapproval (I don't like Citrus) of someone or something based on perceived faults (because it's cliché) or mistakes.

I didn't say an opinion cannot be negative or postive. Nor did I say a criticism is ALWAYS negative. I am also aware that there is constructive criticism and that there are critcisms presented badly. So, what's your point? Lol. But in this case his/her opinion was a negative one, a critcism and he/she said that they didn't like the manga because it was cliché. Saying that they didn't like it because it was cliché is a criticism.

I also didn't say that the person's statement wasn't a criticism. My point is, you gave only one meaning of criticism and I just felt like expanding on it. lol

I didn't "invalidate" their opinion by saying non-factual things (The things I said weren't subjective, they are factual) like citrus is not a cliché manga because, how many pseudo-incest, yuri mangas have you seen?

I think the poster wasn't talking about the genre. They were probably referring more on the story or the characters, I don't really know for sure. There isn't one manga that is exactly the same as another. So for them, Citrus could be cliché because they feel like they've already read a story similar to Citrus.

Besides, where in my post did I say that you were invalidating their opinion by "saying non-factual things"? Because your posts have clearly been disagreeable to their opinion and that is far from being non-factual.

Well, I gave reasons as to why their statement was invalid. Are you telling me to keep my opinions to myself, and just agree that it was "valid" when it certainly wasn't?

Ah, I should've actually used a word to describe it, instead of just an "eh". Sorry. Anyway, I'm not saying to keep your opinions to yourself because you are free to share them. What I am saying is that declaring someone's opinion as invalid is like like telling them that their opinion doesn't matter because they don't agree with yours. It's like you're telling them to keep their opinion to themselves because their opinion is invalid.

It is also your opinion that their statement is invalid and it is also my opinion to never declare someone else's as invalid. So, let's just agree to disagree. lol

Well, aren't you a hypocrite.

Well, I'm sorry if you felt like I was ridiculing you if I didn't agree with everything you were saying.

@SecretNamorifan11 - basically, theyre telling you to shut up because their opinion isn't the same as yours. Hahah.

Not at all! But if that's what SecretNamorifan11 thinks about my post, then I'm sorry for that as well.

So, I guess my point is you are entitled to your opinion just as they are entitled to theirs. No one's opinion should be declared "invalid" just because it doesn't agree with someone else's. Your opinion can be disagreed upon, but at least someone is acknowledging that your opinion IS an opinion. And not something that doesn't deserve any acknowledgement.

But again, this is all an opinion. I'm just sharing my thoughts. I think I'm free to disagree and be disagreed upon. Sorry for escalating this, but I just wanted to clarify. ^^

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 11:04AM

This is soo goood. But I think IIsaya is just playing the word game. You basically repeated what namorifan said. Just enhancing it as your own. But im not teaming on anyone's side. Don't mind me.

This is soo goood. But I think IIsaya is just playing the word game. You basically repeated what namorifan said. Just enhancing it as your own. But im not teaming on anyone's side. Don't mind me.

But I just really like clarifying statements. lol

@Secretnamorifan11, sorry if I've pissed you off. And if you weren't and was just mildly amused, that's cool, too. lol Peace!

Like Like >.<

I didn't "invalidate" their opinion by saying non-factual things (The things I said weren't subjective, they are factual) like citrus is not a cliché manga because, how many pseudo-incest, yuri mangas have you seen?

I don't really mean to butt into this conversation - arguing on the internet is tough for me because so much of my opinion is lost in the transition from my mind to the screen - but it's possible that lucamarte was not so much criticizing the premise of Citrus (which is decently original) but the execution (which isn't). There aren't many pseudo-incest stories out there, true, but the characters, the writing and the dialog of Sabourato's manga are often very cliche - not to mention awkward - with little to no charm or humor to them. Those last two qualities often end up saving other similarly cliched manga, but there's none of that to be found here.

Of course, it's entirely possible that lucamarte was criticizing the premise itself and not the execution, in which case this should probably be ignored.

Also, I guess I should mention that I do actually like Citrus, Yuri (and romance manga in general) being the one genre in which I'm willing to forgive anything if a story is cute enough. Basically, my comment is a tad hypocritical is what I'm saying.

Yeah, this is definitely a much better explanation.

I also didn't say that the person's statement wasn't a criticism. My point is, you gave only one meaning of criticism and I just felt like expanding on it. lol

So you just expanded it, for the sake of expanding? Is it because you can't disprove of what I said that's why you just ramble on things that isn't even significant at the topic on hand? Oh please. Hahaha.

I think the poster wasn't talking about the genre. They were probably referring more on the story or the characters, I don't really know for sure. There isn't one manga that is exactly the same as another. So for them, Citrus could be cliché because they feel like they've already read a story similar to Citrus.

Need I repeat for the slowpokes, if you know of any story similar to Citrus, feel free to recommend it. If not, then be quiet.

Besides, where in my post did I say that you were invalidating their opinion by "saying non-factual things"? Because your posts have clearly been disagreeable to their opinion and that is far from being non-factual.

Thank you, you got it! I thought you were a street lamp who needs someone to spell out everything for like a 3-year-old asking for the question why the sky is blue. You said it yourself, that EVERYTHING I said was factual. Others disagreed of my statement even though it was true. Because fools can't handle the truth. Even though you say it as simply as you can with proof to back up your statement.

Ah, I should've actually used a word to describe it, instead of just an "eh". Sorry. Anyway, I'm not saying to keep your opinions to yourself because you are free to share them. What I am saying is that declaring someone's opinion as invalid is like like telling them that their opinion doesn't matter because they don't agree with yours. It's like you're telling them to keep their opinion to themselves because their opinion is invalid.

Well my "statement" (far from being an opinion) "invalidated" theirs because I can argue that it was invalid. They could've argued back that their point was VALID, if they had the proof to back it up.

It is also your opinion that their statement is invalid and it is also my opinion to never declare someone else's as invalid. So, let's just agree to disagree. lol

That was already concluded. But it seems you had to spell it out for some people including yourself. Lol.

Well, I'm sorry if you felt like I was ridiculing you if I didn't agree with everything you were saying.

Not at all. People on the internet really, they assume they know your feelings. Makes me giggle.

@SecretNamorifan11 - basically, theyre telling you to shut up because their opinion isn't the same as yours. Hahah.

Not at all! But if that's what SecretNamorifan11 thinks about my post, then I'm sorry for that as well.

Again, assuming what I feel. Please, enlighten me more.

So, I guess my point is you are entitled to your opinion just as they are entitled to theirs. No one's opinion should be declared "invalid" just because it doesn't agree with someone else's. Your opinion can be disagreed upon, but at least someone is acknowledging that your opinion IS an opinion. And not something that doesn't deserve any acknowledgement.

How does free will.

But again, this is all an opinion. I'm just sharing my thoughts. I think I'm free to disagree and be disagreed upon. Sorry for escalating this, but I just wanted to clarify. ^^

That it?

Edit: I see that you've declared peace, even though there wasn't a dispute to begin with. At least, not in my side. Lol.

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 11:25AM

Yup, that it. If you want me to say you "won" then I'll say it. No problem with that. If I assumed wrongly, then I assumed wrongly.

But, it just seems you can't handle the truth of being disagreed upon either. You just said that people who can't disprove you should "be quiet", so I suppose they can just keep their opinions to themselves, too, eh?

Oh, but I'm still assuming so feel free to invalidate my opinion, too.

EDIT: Call it whatever you want, we were disagreeing, so I would probably call it a dispute. But, yeah, whatever floats your boat.

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 11:35AM

Yup, that it. If you want me to say you "won" then I'll say it. No problem with that. If I assumed wrongly, then I assumed wrongly.

Gee, thanks. Do I get like a cookie or something? :3

But, it just seems you can't handle the truth of being disagreed upon either. You just said that people who can't disprove you should "be quiet", so I suppose they can just keep their opinions to themselves, too, eh?

I quote myself for the last time: for the slowpokes.

If you know of any manga similar to Citrus, feel free to recommend it. If not, then "be quiet".

I didn't say that, "if you disagree with anything that I have said, be quiet."
Now read that again.

Oh, but I'm still assuming so feel free to invalidate my opinion, too.

I see your assumption of no significance so, no. I don't feel my "invalidation" to be needed. However, you can please yourself by "invalidating" yourself, if you like. Lol.

EDIT: Call it whatever you want, we were disagreeing, so I would probably call it a dispute. But, yeah, whatever floats your boat.

I don't have a boat. Lol.

EDIT: know what the statement "whatever floats your boat" mean. Just wanted to clarify, because ~some~ people might think I don't know and use it against me. Not that I mind since this is the internet.

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 11:49AM

Oh, cool, more word games! Here's a cookie!

@ Secretnamorifan11 : saburouta isn't a bad artist, but after seing the end of "the flower and the star" and of "notes of the garden..." i really cannot help but see some gap,
if we spend too much compliments for citrus, what we have to say about those other masterpieces?
however, he can do this work; with the right ispiration he'll find his style and make a good manga in future.

about the art, i found it boring, too clean w/o any distinctive or interesting traits, but this is only my poor opinion.

@Underachiever007 : thanks, you have explained better than me what i wanted to say... if your english isn't good, than mine is inexistent,
only one thing: i didn't like the premise too of citrus, because i don't like incest or pseudoincest very much, but the important part is what you say about the lack of humor and charm, and, for me, that forced-angst

last edited at Aug 30, 2013 1:02PM

about the art, i found it boring, too clean w/o any distinctive or interesting traits, but this is only my poor opinion.

Those are the reservations I have about Saburouta's art as well, but a lot of technically skilled artists are like that in the beginning. I expect the art to, stylistically at least, develop more with time.

i'm with you, i think he has only to find his style,
to be good at drawing is a good base, but it's not enough

The art is so beautiful and the story is cute. I truly commend Sabura Uta's diligence and fine artwork. Hehe..hy i'm new here :)

I love it <3333

This was wonderful! And the credits!! xD <33

@ Secretnamorifan11 : saburouta isn't a bad artist, but after seing the end of "the flower and the star" and of "notes of the garden..." i really cannot help but see some gap,

I never said that you thought of Saburouta as a bad artist. I'm pretty much sure that the manga "The Flower And The Star" IS still Ongoing. Also, I really like "Notes From* The Garden of Lilies". It's one of my favorites along side Kase-san. Anyways, I just want to clarify that I never once said that I liked the story of Citrus (I even stated thatit was nonsensical, lol) I said, I loved the art, and I quote:

Saburouta's art is like a piece of paradise. (PO)

if we spend too much compliments for citrus, what we have to say about those other masterpieces?

I doubt even if we "shower" Citrus w/ compliments, there's 0.000001% that Saburo uta will alter anything about it.

about the art, i found it boring, too clean w/o any distinctive or interesting traits, but this is only my poor opinion.

Yeah, the art is boring because it's so clean (should be like a rough drawing, eh? I'm joking). There's no distinctive feature, eh? So having different hair styles doesn't count as "distinctive"? If there was none, I bet they'd all look the same. I wouldn't mind it if all the characters looked like Mei-chan. Lol. Can you imagine? :)

only one thing: i didn't like the premise too of citrus, because i don't like incest or pseudoincest very much

Then I guess, you should read the tags first before you read it, no?

but the important part is what you say about the lack of humor and charm

Isn't that surprising. There's no "comedy" tag, afterall. If you wan funny yuri, then citrus isn't for you.

The only thing I like about saburouta's work is his art. I'm a sucker for good art.

last edited at Aug 31, 2013 2:54AM

There's a difference between something being a comedy and something having humor and charm to it.

Well, isn't this good that you're explaining it now more clearly.

When I say Saburouta's art is not distinctive I mean I forget what it looks like the moment I'm not actually looking at it.

Guess someone needs to register for a free lumosity account now.

It's very technically accomplished but completely unmemorable, at least to me.

Actually, I can relate. The moment I stop reading Citrus, I forget what yuzu looks like. I'm left with floating pig tails. Lol.

Also, I guess I should stress this again - after all, I have been very critical these last couple of pages - I do actually like Citrus. It's cute.

Cool. I bet everyone's happy that you like it. Keep at it.

I don't really like being too negative and critical about Yuri. I'm such a hypocrite when it comes to this stuff.

Aren't we all hypocrites.

only one thing: i didn't like the premise too of citrus, because i don't like incest or pseudoincest very much

Then I guess, you should read the tags first before you read it, no?

i don't "hate" incest story, and i can't say i dislike something that i have never read; but you're right, infact i didn't post any comment in citrus post because that manga isn't for me,
usually i like this kind of easy and nonsensical one-shot, but this has (or lack) something i can't explain,

i was thinking about your nick : for example the light and easygoing stories from yuri yuri and yuri yuri (ES) have so much more than this! and the style is more symple and clean, but is really distinctive of the artist,

but i really don't want or need to persuade anyone, i was only curious if i was the only one with this impression

Aren't we all hypocrites.

I guess so. Now wait for me to rave about a piece of fluff with more shortcomings than Citrus just because it's so kawaii desu in, like, two hours. Whenever it is the next Attack on Titan doujin gets uploaded.

ah ah ah, some good laugh in the morning is great, thanks