Every time says something good about monogatari, I see it as something bad

How do you mean that?

Whenever says something about it, in a descriptive manner, not like you rating it a ten despite harem comment, something that happened in the show, the thing they're describing comes off as something bad to me, so it got bumped so I can see if it's better when I watch it.

The discussion about Monogatari in the other thread made me realize that I should recommend it here for the yuri. It's a harem series with a yuri side character, Kanbaru, introduced in the first season. She has a unrequited cursh on the MCs girlfriend and doesn't show up all that often in story arcs that aren't about her.

Describe thing how they really are, otherwise it lead people to think it is your basic uninteresting harem cliche. The MC doesn't hesitate between the girls, he have a girlfriend and stick to it that's why I personally don't see it as harem >.>

last edited at May 25, 2015 11:48AM

Whenever says something about it, in a descriptive manner, not like you rating it a ten despite harem comment, something that happened in the show, the thing they're describing comes off as something bad to me, so it got bumped so I can see if it's better when I watch it.

Well, there definitely are some scenes that you are probably not gonna like but the dialogue and the characters are some of the best anime has to offer.

Describe thing how they really are, otherwise it lead people to think it is your basic uninteresting harem cliche. The MC doesn't hesitate between the girls, he have a girlfriend and stick to it that's why I personally don't see it as harem >.>

Ah, yeah, my bad. I'm not too sure on like, the definition of the harem genre but I always was kinda unsure about Monogatari being one myself. I've seen it both tagged as harem and not tagged as harem so apparently I'm not the only one.

If you're going to pick up monogatari, make sure you can stomach fanservice. I love the series, but it will take a really long time for me to watch one of the newest arcs (maybe never even).

I find it really odd that a yuri fan would readily recommend a series with both an unrequited yuri crush and (major spoiler) a lesbian death arc end. Yet I've seen many do it, so I suppose that speaks volumes about just how beloved the series is.

Also, from my understanding there are multiple girls interested in the MC? If it's more than two, that's harem.

last edited at May 25, 2015 1:15PM

Also, from my understanding there are multiple girls interested in the MC? If it's more than two, that's harem.

It's a harem, then.

Both the yuri crush and the (major spoiler) death are handled pretty seriously and didn't feel, for the lack of a better word, hostile at all. If a yuri fan should skip a season it would be Nisemonogatari cause Kanbaru gets pretty physical with the MC, but that's where Kaiki gets introduced and Kaiki is awesome.

last edited at May 25, 2015 1:32PM

There is his girlfriend, another one who is in love with him (Hanekawa)... Maybe the vampire but they have a really special kind relationship, I don't think she see him romantically people who want to see it as a harem would see it that way

Others are budies, bro, sisters and spoiler another one who fake having a crush on him

The only ones truly and clearly having romantic interest on him are his girlfriend and Hanekawa...

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:08PM

another one who fake having a crush on him

Who do you mean by that? Nadeko? If so, I don't remember it being fake, can you explain?

another one who fake having a crush on him

Who do you mean by that? Nadeko? If so, I don't remember it being fake, can you explain?

It was said she faked it because it was easier to have a unrequited crush than to be open to relationship or being in a real relationship. It was the same as her hiding her face and all, just to avoid complicated things and to incite people to let her go the easy way

Anyway, I see why people would see it as a harem but to me, it's way more complicated than that.

last edited at May 25, 2015 1:50PM

Anyway, I see why people would see it as a harem but to me, it's way more complicated than that.

It can still be a harem and be good. In fact, I'd prefer it that way. The word 'harem' typically has a negative connotation, but it really doesn't have to. And having shows like this convince me to not drop all shows with a harem tag on sight.

Just to add to the above explanation about Nadeko. You could say that she's in love with the idea of love. And pining after Araragi (who has absolutely zero interest in her) means that she can play being in an unrequited love with someone without being burdened by the emotional requirements of a real relationship.

last edited at May 25, 2015 1:56PM

another one who fake having a crush on him

Who do you mean by that? Nadeko? If so, I don't remember it being fake, can you explain?

It was said she faked it because it was easier to have a unrequited crush than to be open to relationship or being in a real relationship. It was the same as her hiding her face and all, just to avoid complicated things and to incite people to let her go the easy way

Anyway, I see why people would see it as a harem but to me, it's way more complicated than that.

Ah you and shadow are right, I forgot about that. Yeah, it's only two people then.

Anyway, I see why people would see it as a harem but to me, it's way more complicated than that.

It can still be a harem and be good. In fact, I'd prefer it that way. The word 'harem' typically has a negative connotation, but it really doesn't have to. And having shows like this convince me to not drop all shows with a harem tag on sight.

Oh, I didn't meant it that way, not saying that because of some negative connotation
What I meant when I said way more complicated than that is that, yes if you don't think about it and come expecting a harem, then you will see a harem but if you think about it without being influenced, the majority of the relationships aren't romantic.
I mean there can be a close boy/girl relationship without it being romantic. Here people see Kanbaru and Hachikuji as part of Araragi's harem but I don't see any romantic feelings in there, most of their relationship is the bro/buddies kind

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:12PM

Ah, yes. Those people just want to make a waifu out of every anime girls they can find.

Even if I don't want to consider that some of those girls are romantically interested in Araragi, I would still label this show harem. The author's blatantly playing around with the idea that these girls could be in love with him Hachikuji's departure for one (right after we see her adult form too).

I find it really odd that a yuri fan would readily recommend a series with both an unrequited yuri crush and (major spoiler) a lesbian death arc end. Yet I've seen many do it, so I suppose that speaks volumes about just how beloved the series is.

I've found that I enjoy shows so much more when I'm not actively looking for the yuri. Most probably because when I'm watching a show, I've typically already gained an interest in it before hand and is more likely to enjoy the show. When I'm specifically watching a show for the yuri, I tend to slog through the rest of the story because I don't enjoy it as much.

This is just my long winded way of saying I watch anime because I enjoy it, not because I'm specifically looking for yuri. And it may or may not annoy me that sometimes people would just throw a show under the rug because it does not contain yuri/downplays yuri characters (and their feelings). This is a yuri forum though, so I'm practically just asking for it.

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:24PM

Araragi is interested romantically in Senjougahara only. And vice-versa. It's not really a harem. He's a perv, but like any other teenager with porn mags under his bed.

The other girls all have a special relationship with him, because he saved them in one way or the other. Of course, they all fall for him (except Kanbaru) at one point or another, but it's mainly because one of the particularity of Araragi is that he put his life on the line willingly without wanting anything in return, because of his own sense of justice.

The point of a harem is usually to make the viewer guess at which one of the girls the MC is going to go. But here, Araragi is bound to Senjougahara from the beginning and there was never any doubt he'd be with her.

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:35PM

Ah, yes. Those people just want to make a waifu out of every anime girls they can find.

Even if I don't want to consider that some of those girls are romantically interested in Araragi, I would still label this show harem. The author's blatantly playing around with the idea that these girls could be in love with him Hachikuji's departure for one (right after we see her adult form too).

Hmmm... I don't understand. They are all, at one point, interested romantically in him. Hanekawa builds up stress because of it, Nadeko becomes a god because of this, Hachikuji "loves" him (probably not romantically) and postones her ascension to heaven because she wants to stay where he is

But it's still not a harem, because there never was a chance in hell any of these characters would win Araragi over. The story only deals with the consequences of these infatuations.

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:25PM

The point of a harem is usually to make the viewer guess at which one of the girl the MC is going to fall. But here, Araragi is bound to Senjougahara from the beginning and there was never any doubt he'd be with her.

The harem definition I'm going by here is when a main male character is surrounded by mostly females who shows some form of interest in him at one point or another, be it jokingly or not.

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:37PM

Ah, yes. Those people just want to make a waifu out of every anime girls they can find.

Even if I don't want to consider that some of those girls are romantically interested in Araragi, I would still label this show harem. The author's blatantly playing around with the idea that these girls could be in love with him Hachikuji's departure for one (right after we see her adult form too).

Hmmm... I don't understand. They are all, at one point, interested romantically in him. Hanekawa builds up stress because of it, Nadeko becomes a god because of this, Hachikuji "loves" him (probably not romantically) and postones her ascension to heaven because she wants to stay where he is

But it's still not a harem, because there never was a chance in hell any of these characters would win Araragi over. The story only deals with the consequences of these infatuations.

It's wasn't because she loved him that she became a god, actually she wasn't really in love with him, the problem was way deeper

For Hachikuji people can see it how they want but yeah I don't see it romantic at all.

The point of a harem is usually to make the viewer guess at which one of the girl the MC is going to fall. But here, Araragi is bound to Senjougahara from the beginning and there was never any doubt he'd be with her.

The harem definition I'm going by here is when a main male character is surrounded by mostly females who shows some form of interest in him at one point or another, be it jokingly or not.

Wow your definition is wide, I personally think of it as : male character surronded by female who show a true romantic interest in him

Edit : well actually I wouldn't fix the gender they all can be male or female

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:48PM

Light novel spoiler

Anyway, in the light novel, Araragi is killed, goes to hell, gets Hachikuji back, is resurrected and Hachikuji becomes the god of the abandoned shrine. So Gaen has what she wanted and all is well that ends well

last edited at May 25, 2015 2:53PM

Anyway, in the visual novel, Araragi is killed, goes to hell, gets Hachikuji back, is resurrected and Hachikuji becomes the god of the abandoned shrine. So Gaen has what she wanted and all is well that ends well

Label it novel spoiler.

This is just my long winded way of saying I watch anime because I enjoy it, not because I'm specifically looking for yuri.

Oh, that's not quite what I meant. I watch things based on much more than yuri, though any type of gayness usually gives my interest a slight boost. I would love to write a lot on this topic but it's not fair to do so given that I haven't read or watched Monogatari and don't intend to. I'll try to put it a bit differently without overstepping, though.

I'm surprised and slightly confused when I see many folks recommend the series and mention its yuri content as a bonus, when the tropes employed in said content unrequited crushes, playfully teasing dudes(?), getting physical with dudes(?), and tragic end are near-universally despised by yuri communities at large (run-on sentence end). I am doubly surprised when a great deal of yuri fans have expressed enjoyment of the show, said content included.

Of course my observation is painfully incomplete, and probably will continue to be for time eternity - I just found it odd/amusing.

Kanbaru doesn't have a tragic end IIRC.

Kanbaru doesn't have a tragic end IIRC.

Tragic end refered to Numachi dying, I think.

The unrequited crush wasn't played for laughs which at least for me is when it gets annoying. Numachi's death didn't feel like just thrown in there to deny Kanbaru's happy ending.
I don't have an aversion against tragic/bittersweet endings if they are believeably and well written, don't know how it is for others here.

last edited at May 25, 2015 3:59PM

Kanbaru doesn't have a tragic end IIRC.

Tragic end refered to Numachi dying, I think.

She was dead from the beginning, from suicide

Kanbaru doesn't have a tragic end IIRC.

Tragic end refered to Numachi dying, I think.

She was dead from the beginning, from suicide

Yeah, it wasn't tragic at least if I remember correctly, more like bittersweet.
And by dying I just meant parting from the world for good, I suck at explaing details.

last edited at May 25, 2015 4:02PM

The unrequited crush wasn't played for laughs which at least for me is when it gets annoying. Numachi's death didn't feel like just thrown in there to deny Kanbaru's happy ending.
I don't have an aversion against tragic/bittersweet endings if they are believeably and well written, don't know how it is for others here.

Don't feel you have to justify yourself. I understand the reasons and logic behind it. It was just an observation, and one I felt compelled to describe given some possible misunderstanding.

She was dead from the beginning, from suicide

Like I said, my observation was painfully incomplete, given that I didn't know that. Still, that makes one love interest unavailable via straight, and another unavailable via death, with no real romantic resolution in sight. Reads pretty brutally in text.

last edited at May 25, 2015 4:05PM