That said, I do think it's fair to criticize the pacing for being choppy and the structure of events to be more like a dumb soap opera than a realistic character drama, which is disappointing when Kodama is trying to tackle such heavy subjects. As a result, while I think this premise had potential to be her best work, it ends up clearly inferior to Segull Villa Days and Fake a Marriage With my Junior. But it is interesting enough to be worth reading if you can handle dark subject matter and mutually toxic relationships.

While this sort of story isn't my main cup of tea, it certainly is interesting as change of pace from the run-of-the-mill yuri story.

But I think it's pretty clear that a lot of readers don't have much (like any) patience with stories about "mutually toxic relationships." In fact, a lot of readers seem to be dead-set on identifying "the good one" (as opposed to "the least messed-up one") in a story no matter how much of a trainwreck all the characters might be. It's remarkable how often people will go to the mat for "[X] did nothing wrong!" when it's pretty obvious that, while X might not have been the worst of the worst, X still did plenty of things wrong.

To be frank, I think a lot of people can't handle a female character specifically who's significantly flawed but still treated as sympathetic. If you look at het romances, male love interests (or even protagonists) are often far worse than even Meiko here -- and for not nearly as good reasons -- and yet are given way more leeway by readers than Meiko was. People, even a lot of yuri fans, just have way higher standards for female characters in general.

To be frank, I think a lot of people can't handle a female character specifically who's significantly flawed but still treated as sympathetic. If you look at het romances, male love interests (or even protagonists) are often far worse than even Meiko here -- and for not nearly as good reasons -- and yet are given way more leeway by readers than Meiko was. People, even a lot of yuri fans, just have way higher standards for female characters in general.

Your observation isn't showing how readers are having the higher standards for female characters. Even it is very romantic thought of yours.
Truth is, tendency of readers is to find the victim who is the safest option for bitching about, a victim who won't bite back easily.
Females are "safer" option for it because society looks on females as weaker. And you are testifying for it, mentioning very tolerable reactions of readers toward male love interests who are far often worse than even Meiko here. But people are going to bitch about Meiko more, of course.
It shows that gender plays a very important role in reactions of readers, and how they will regroup.

But I think it's pretty clear that a lot of readers don't have much (like any) patience with stories about "mutually toxic relationships." In fact, a lot of readers seem to be dead-set on identifying "the good one" (as opposed to "the least messed-up one")

The case you are presenting talks about tendency of readers to find the safest option in what is morally the most acceptable. That way self-righteous individual becomes a part of larger group, counting on how they'll have more supporters in fighting against "those trainwracks" who are morally "damaged".

Unfortunately, as we see, those choices are mostly based on gender and diversity...
In other words, someone would say it's about fascism (in original meaning of the word which is "a bundle of people" (a bundle of sticks in Italian) which can't be broken easily, glued together.
They are morally self righteous group of people and they are dictating norms set up by majority. It's the basic fascism.
And we are infected with it. Some might be completely unaware of it, some not.

That's why Kodama and Iwami are great artists.
Their manga characters will make readers to show authentically and clearly their true colors without knowing, while supporting or hating those characters.
Artists are showing that way levels of infection of people in sickness of society (globally).

footnote:
This opinion is not calling out to ANYONE on this forum specifically.
And it's not judgmental post in accusatory way. Just a fact.
It is something what is happening EVERYWHERE, through the politic, art, etc.

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 6:09PM

I'm going to be honest, @HayaH, I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about.

Now the problematic comment is edited and fixed.
Hope it helps now. If there are still problems, notify or ask for clearing.

Thanks for pointing out and helping to see what was in wrong order

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 5:11PM

Thank you @HayaH, your point is much clearer now. I'm sympathetic to your argument, although I think comparing disliking characters like Meiko to fascism is a bit much.

Thank you, your point is much clearer now.

You are welcome. Let's say the first comment was a draft of a thought what needed some time to mature.
Thank you for pointing on it, it really needed editing and shaping.

I'm sympathetic to your argument, although I think comparing disliking characters like Meiko to fascism is a bit much.

Actually, it's not an observation of fascism through political movement, but as principle applied in human behavior, based on original meaning of Italian word fascio (explained above in this thread). But the root of evil is same.

It's understandable that we as humans can be frustrated.
We need venting out, and it's OK if we do it here bitching over imaginary characters.

But if we really want to express our higher moral standards, why those tendencies for venting out our frustrations over victims who are already defeated by life circumstances or damaged enough by society? Aren't we, as yuri lovers, in similar position like them in world's hierarchy?
It is a cowardice to attack them, and hypocrisy.
We should vent out our frustrations on real villains, not on victims.
Find our match.
Or find some constructive ways to criticize (like yours), not destructive.

You are mentioning Meiko here. And credits goes to Kodama Naoko for making this wonderful yet heartbreaking story about "love born from a tragedy" which bonded her characters Reo and Meiko in unusual and unexpected ways.
Is it too much, as you say, to observe the case of raped girl through the fascistic tendencies of certain group of people in our society (globally)?
Let's see through examples and phases:

• Meiko was raped!

Society reacts in two ways in cases of rape:
sympathetic to the victim, or accusing the victim:

"It's her fault she's raped!",
"She dressed up to provoke!",
"She wanted it! (deserved it)" etc
.
(in this case in manga it's Reo who is taking the guilt, but in basis, it's still THE GUILT for being raped. And that guilt is forced on females by so called society norms. To feel ashamed or helpless, or ashamed of their femininity)
Isn't that an example of fascistic tendency of society?
(observing through my explanation about a bundle of (self-righteous) people stuck together to attack everyone who is morally questionable by norms which they proclaim, as rule of majority, or rule of stronger)

In their eyes, raped victim is morally unclean (defiled), and deserves to suffer more than what that victimized person already suffered.
It's the principle of the cruel. To smell a victim as a shark smells blood, and attack them and rip them to shreds.

In reality, it's those "sharks" who should be ashamed or persecuted, as the scum of society. But they are inverting situation presenting themselves as morally (self) righteous individuals, sticking together as a group, like cowards, always over someone weaker or outnumbered.
The other reason why they attack, is: they feel threatened
The victim goes public, discovers their dark deeds or desires, and they want to shut the victim up (using various tactics like gaslighting, mocking, public humiliation, pressures, etc.)
Read again my every word in both comments and you will understand why such collective behavior is marked by word fascism, and in which cases.

Next phase:

• Meiko "enslaved" Reo.

It's actually her way how to handle her emotional turmoil. She is trying to heal herself gaining control over someone else.
Rape is attack on THE WILL of the person, not just their body.
We should understand that's why Meiko wants to control Reo.
To overpower Reo's will telling her what to do and when.
And it's completely understandable and not for judgment when we know why she wants it.
She is struggling to survive survival. Society disrespects victimized people (again, fascistic tendency of all those "superior" and "morally correct")

Meiko's way how to handle her situation is questionable, but it's her way when nobody else is helping her to overcome situation.
We need better understanding of victims/victimized people to form righteous judgment about their behavior. Especially if their behavior is negative or unchanneled.
We don't need to harm them deeper, but help them to come back into society offering them better solutions than it's this example from manga.
Accepting them wholeheartedly and respecting them would be better solution.
Victims/victimized people really could often seem to us like villains, but it's their cry for help actually.
Like in this case with Reo and Meiko.

There is the next phase:

• Meiko "raped" Reo

but there is already too much said about very harsh subject in this comment. If there is an interest, let me know to finish analyze, or it will be done one day, eventually...

If someone have any questions or needs better clarification, just ask.
Hope this analyze could help if someone needs it.

Thank you all who invested your time in reading this (long) comment to this line!

last edited at Nov 21, 2023 12:23PM

I am beginning to really like Kodama Naoko!!