Sumika's flaws really aren't jarring enough to justify the MC's level of disillusionment with her. The idea that she's a terrible person because she's somewhat thoughtless and self-absorbed is a pretty big reach.

Agreed.

Another school girl/idol story... meh. Need some more “Adult Living” manga.

THANK YOU

last edited at Jan 12, 2020 9:46PM

majere posted:

Kase is a tomboy.

It's clearly mimicking a het relatioship.

Dropped.

/s

You kid but it does feel like this story leans hard into the "but who's the guy" mentality people often apply to sapphic relationships.

Even lesbians have integrated these roles. Butch/Femme, Neko/Tachi, Breadwinner/Housewife whatever...

Some other lesbians hate this kind of dynamics, because it's associated with the oppression of the patriarchy. But it doesn't make it invalid. It's an association fallacy.

It's okay for two women in a relationship to have one who takes charge and one who's pampered. As long as they are comfortable and happy with it, why is it bothering you?

Well first thing, butch and femme do not denote what heteronormative gender role a person fulfills in their relationships that's exactly the kind of misconception I'm talking about. Butches aren't play acting as men. Secondly, Yamada never actually agreed to this dynamic Kase just appointed herself the protector without any actual discussion of the subject. Heck she actively pushed back against it only for Kase to ignore her.

Damn, Nya-chan said it before I could.

Valid points, but isn't that kinda reflective of how it goes irl?? Honestly, who's ever sat down with their partner and had a full conversation on what norms they agree to abide by? No, it just an unspoken agreement, which tends to be a lot more fluid in lesbian relationships. Truth be told, it would be much more unsettling and not at all believable if Yamada actually turned to Kase and said "you're supposed to be wearing the pants dammit, protect my innocence at all costs."

last edited at Oct 5, 2019 4:39PM

Like majere said, i think it's more of a Yamada problem on that side. I think Kase don't want to force Yamada to have sex so she restrain herself, well barely but still.

Hmm...by your logic what we saw WAS a one time fluke, and they're not having sex, which actually makes sense as to why Kase is sooo frustrated...man, that's depressing.

It's not because they had sex once that suddendly they want to do it all the time. Like i said they might not have that much together and they prefer to have date rather than just fuck like animals when they can see each other. Not all relations are about having sex each time you see your partner. They're young girls who start their relation,give them time to get confortable with that.

Meh, perhaps if we were dealing with an asexual couple I could buy that, not two healthy, young adults in their sexual prime; and from what we've seen there is nothing remotely asexual about either of them. We also haven't seen any hints of past sexual intimacy linked to trauma of any sort, so, I genuinely don't understand the hesitation as it pertains to the intimate aspects of their relationship. And, if relationships are about give and take, then Kase clearly needs more giving from her partner, and one could argue that this deficit is quite (subconsciously or not) selfish on Yamada's part.

But if you want to dismiss it as her innocence and child like nature then okay, you win. Ultimately, it boils down to the author's inability or unwillingness to flesh out these characters, which leaves us scratching our heads as to what the true motivation is that guides their behavior. I'm done speculating on what poorly written fictional characters are thinking and feeling. Still love and support the series tho ;)

last edited at Oct 5, 2019 4:40PM

Like majere said, i think it's more of a Yamada problem on that side. I think Kase don't want to force Yamada to have sex so she restrain herself, well barely but still.

Hmm...by your logic what we saw WAS a one time fluke, and they're not having sex, which actually makes sense as to why Kase is sooo frustrated...man, that's depressing.

last edited at Oct 5, 2019 2:29PM

You know that nothing good will come by provoking . The conversation need to stop because there no point to continue it.

I'm no BugDevil, I know when to hold em' and fold em'. Wait...did I just engage in provocation??

On a serious note, why aren't they having more sex?? Kase acts out the way she does mostly because she's sexually frustrated, or at least that's how it's played. She'd be a lot more tame if she were getting some on a regular basis. At one point, I half expected in this chapter for Kase to take Yamada in ally somewhere. More proof that Hiromi does not know how young adults actually work, which is weird, considering how I presume that she was one at one point? Further evidenced by the fact that Yamada still gets really anxious when Kase even attempts to touch her. I thought we were passed this, but clearly we aren't if ole' girl can't even put a band-aid on Yamada without her having a heart attack. Where is the love...or rather, the sex?? I need it and Kase DAMN sure needs it at this point.

It feels like it's part of the general "Yamada is functionally a child" thing Hiromi has going on.

Which at this point is problematic. THEY ARE HAVING SEX (I presume what we saw at the end of the first series wasn't a one time fluke??) and they are still having intimacy issues, be it name calling or casual touching. Make it make sense.

On a serious note, why aren't they having more sex??

Because they have college ? Kase is always at her dorms and Yamada has her own appartement, i guess they don't have the opportunity to have much intimate moment.

Kase acts out the way she does mostly because she's sexually frustrated

To be fair, Kase seem always sexually frustrated.

Lol, do you know how young adults work?? When has college, work, or life ever stopped anyone in the history of shipping from getting it in, especially young people-who have their own place. Speaking for myself, rabbits had nothing on me in my college heyday. Maybe it's just a subconscious reflection of Japan's culture, where such intimacy really isn't a priority, but as we can see it's beginning to have profound consequences on this girl's mental state.

last edited at Oct 5, 2019 2:21PM

You know that nothing good will come by provoking . The conversation need to stop because there no point to continue it.

I'm no BugDevil, I know when to hold em' and fold em'. Wait...did I just engage in provocation??

On a serious note, why aren't they having more sex?? Kase acts out the way she does mostly because she's sexually frustrated, or at least that's how it's played. She'd be a lot more tame if she were getting some on a regular basis. At one point, I half expected in this chapter for Kase to take Yamada in an ally somewhere. More proof that Hiromi does not know how young adults actually work, which is weird, considering how I presume that she was one at one point? Further evidenced by the fact that Yamada still gets really anxious when Kase even attempts to touch her. I thought we were passed this, but clearly we aren't if ole' girl can't even put a band-aid on Yamada without her having a heart attack. Where is the love...or rather, the sex?? I need it and Kase DAMN sure needs it.

last edited at Oct 5, 2019 4:00PM

And apparently some don't know when to stop. Can we stop the conversation for real ?

Jeez, really?? Don't Kase me

Sorry, you are the weirdo who just equated a need to control to heteronormativity, I'm not sure I can take you seriously lol

Must take some effort to be so thoroughly embarassingly wrong.

It's not just that Cryssoberyl's comment was entirely correct to begin with. It doesn't take a genius to understand the clear link between 'control' and 'heteronormativity', since the most heteronormative relationship, according to creepy dudes, is one where a man controls a woman. Where the woman is innocent and pure and clueless and pretty much a child, while the dude is the adult that holds all the cards, and has to "protect" said woman from herself.

Now, what were the criticisms of this chapter about again? Oh, right, exactly that very topic. Who'd have thought?
Still cracking me up that the Hyperfan-Defensesquad thought "B-but kase is the mom and yamada the wee kid" actually helped matters, lol.

Apparently denile is not just a river in Egypt...

Kase's preoccupation with regulating Yamada's clothing choices needs to stop. It is the most heteronormative aspect of their frequently het-mirroring relationship, and this case directly calls back to Kase actually insulting Yamada's appearance in order to keep her under control. The "don't wear X for your own good!" was not acceptable in Their Story (and called out as such in that work) and it is not acceptable here - even less so here, in fact, manifesting as it did as Kase negging her significant other.

A simple thing to do is to see their relation as a Mom/Daughter one. Kase is just a mom who is afraid that her daughter can't do anything right and had to back her up everytime when said daughter is just doing her best.

Except that is not their relationship and thus should not be their dynamic. It is not Kase's job to manage and mother Yamada, it is her job as her girlfriend to be an equal partner who respects her choices and doesn't seek to control her for her "own good", let alone for Kase's good:

I think I'm finally starting to realize that Kase's whole "could you please not wear that" schpeal is more for her sake than any jealousy over the boys seeing her.

Someone gets it.

Someone gets that it's even worse than it appears? Making insincere appeals to scary boys as bogeymen to frighten Yamada into doing what she, Kase, wants for her own comfort would be blatant and cynical emotional blackmail in exactly the same way women are forced into rigidly "modest" clothing the world over for the peace of mind of their self-appointed owners. Even I don't think Kase is terrible or selfish enough to be doing that, at least not intentionally.

I don't hate Kase or this manga, but she has a problem that continues to manifest, and pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

THIS

@ karp
EVERYTHING you've said is the truth. Just know that some of us understand and implicitly agree with your interpretation; and as much as I love these two dweebs, I can't help but slightly raise my eyebrows every time an instance of Kase's insecurity rears its ugly head, no matter how subtle. The issue that I have personally, is that this constant white knighting, coupled with latent insecurity issues (let's keep it real) is not being used as an effective character development tool. It just happens as a cheap means of driving the action of the story. If this chick has some serious psychological abandonment issues, layered with borderline psychopathic possessive behavior, I'm here for it! Give me the ugly, gritty, dirty flaws, but you also have to give me the development...sadly, of which there is none.

kickap00 made an excellent observation...the fact that some of us are rationalizing Kase's behavior during her possessive "rants". In retrospect, it really does resemble language used to defend abusers, and it's striking how these commentators are subconsciously admitting there IS a problem by justifying what would otherwise be very alarming behavior (in the real world) to those who recognize the signals of potentially toxic/abusive relationships.

This is a scary thought, but If you really want to think about it...Kase does sound like she has abuser potential. The language she uses is coded which is why it's so polarizing in this thread. It sounds familiar or at the very least something many of us have heard or seen before, whether it be personal experience or dramatization of abuse in the media. And the whole superwoman, at the right place/right time, mystical power she has just adds to the ick factor (possible stalking). Again, the reason (for me at least) why this is so frustrating is because these particular situations just happen for the sake of happening, and is supposed to be innocent and benign but really comes across to some of us as anything but.

I have nothing to say about Yamada, she's the same ole' Yamada more or less, which is exactly the problem.

...TLDR at the same time I do realize that this is but a mere manga. And if anyone is looking for a fully conceptualized meandering of love, life and relationships, this ain't it, you will be sorely disappointed. Like the series for what it is, not what you want it to be.

And now, back to our scheduled infighting.

last edited at Oct 5, 2019 4:56AM

@Blastaar August 1, 2019 9:34PM

Oi! Ok, I'll admit that I'm a fucking idiot and extremely obtuse. Maybe it's the time flashbacks or heavy subtex, but I totally missed that part where the senpai allegedly rapes her. It appears to me to be innocent frolicking (granted we are talking about an age difference of what, five years?? With senpai being around 17-18 and Asuka being 12-13) which by itself is a little disturbing but her being a "predator" would reeeally take things to a whole new level, hence, my confusion. Someone please explain it to me like a two year old, because I clearly have the perceptiveness of one...

“Predator” is a judgment assigned by readers on the basis of suppositions; “player” is more fully supported by actual evidence from the the text. Those include:

• Asuka in the narrative present is clearly unhappy with whatever happened (that is, whatever is about to happen in the flashback) with Miyuki; she thinks of her as a “liar,” specifically in relation to the hickey mentioned in the latest chapter.

• Prior to Asuka meeting up with Miyuki at the cram school, Jun has seen Miyuki in a classroom apparently making out with an unknown girl.

• The hickey is physical evidence that Miyuki has been with someone else (a girl, one assumes) between her kissing sessions with Asuka.

In general, some Dynasty readers are quick to label behaviors “abuse” and to question the validity of consent and agency for characters.

My own reading of the text suggests that something unpleasant but not highly traumatic happened between Asuka and Miyuki, although it’s certainly possible that something worse than “unpleasant” will be depicted.

Ok, now I'm literally on the same page. Awesome intel as always Blastaar XD

Oi! Ok, I'll admit that I'm a fucking idiot and extremely obtuse. Maybe it's the time flashbacks or heavy subtex, but I totally missed that part where the senpai allegedly rapes her. It appears to me to be innocent frolicking (granted we are talking about an age difference of what, five years?? With senpai being around 17-18 and Asuka being 12-13) which by itself is a little disturbing but her being a "predator" would reeeally take things to a whole new level, hence, my confusion. Someone please explain it to me like a two year old, because I clearly have the perceptiveness of one...

@random June 23, 2019 11:48PM

Well, we already know Chika's mom works late at night, and she apparently brings random men home for sex. The mom's probably not an out-and-out prostitute, but I'll bet she's involved in some sort of "water business," perhaps working at a cabaret club or something.

Or, y'know, just has a lot of short-lived relationships and one-night stands. Everything we've been shown of her so far implies she's one of those people who only too readily fall into that kind of pattern; doesn't take a dodgy job that.

One notes that despite their decidedly strained and rather estranged relationship she's nevertheless presumably the one footing the bills for Chika's dance lessons etc. so I guess it's... complicated...?

Well damn, somehow I completely glazed over that. I legit did not see that part. Lmao

@koneko June 22, 2019 9:47PM

@Hollows November 30, 2018 7:25PM

This reads way too....adult for me. The family background for the black haired girl and the way she acts always makes me think there is something really wrong going on here. Sadly, Usa-chan is too childish to realize.

Hopefully, both of them can develop a really nice relationship and overcome each other's shortcomings.

Super late, but spot on. Seems like on one hand, the author wants it wants to be Young Adult but at the same time is going for TV MA. This tonal shift is confusing. Also, the characters appear to be in middle school, maybe 13-15 (bodies don't look very developed either) yet the story tone feels much more mature. Maybe it's the hyper sexuality?? Which typically implies some disturbing traumatic issues, especially when it's adolescents/prepubescent teenagers. Can't help but wonder who the target audience is. Lastly, it reads as very male, so I'm definitely not surprised that the author is a dude. Explains a lot.

Hentai plot, Hoshizora mother probably prostitute with failed dreams and think Hoshizora going to be the same as her and Hoshizora trying to prove her mother wrong by being succesful dancer.

Whoa, prostitute? What gave you that impression?

@Hollows November 30, 2018 7:25PM

This reads way too....adult for me. The family background for the black haired girl and the way she acts always makes me think there is something really wrong going on here. Sadly, Usa-chan is too childish to realize.

Hopefully, both of them can develop a really nice relationship and overcome each other's shortcomings.

Super late, but spot on. Seems like on one hand, the author wants it wants to be Young Adult but at the same time is going for TV MA. This tonal shift is confusing. Also, the characters appear to be in middle school, maybe 13-15 (bodies don't look very developed either) yet the story tone feels much more mature, maybe it's the hyper sexuality?? Which typically implies some disturbing traumatic issues, especially when it's adolescents/prepubescent teenagers; as a result I can't help but wonder who the target audience is. Lastly, this story reads as very male, so I'm definitely not surprised that the author is a dude. Explains a lot.

last edited at Jun 23, 2019 8:14PM

@BugDevil June 22, 2019 3:12PM

i seriously hope that this manga isn't gonna end with them being a couple. Please author =_="
Let the kid grow up and moving forward, this relatetionship is so gross and unhealthy urkkk

Sorry but that is the hope of everyone reading this I thought? Because we get sick of this kinda manga (or loli ones)
where it's all just a tease and goes nowhere.

It would be refreshing and new for it to actually go there for once. And the author seems like they WILL go there.

Please don't speak for everyone, thank you very much.
I'm here merely out of morbid curiosity and because the writing is actually not bad. If this was actually lolicon bait I'd not even have bothered.

I certainly agree that this incest stuff (especially between parent/child) barely ever goes anywhere. And that is a good thing. We shouldn't normalize it. That doesn't mean you can't draw some intellectual merit from such a story. Not every story portrays something good. The main reason for the drama and intrigue of this manga is that it is wrong. Forbidden love always incites a certain fascination in people.

^THIS times 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000...

@shadesofgreymoon June 22, 2019 4:59PM

RIP Asuka's underpants, lol

Morbid curiosity keeps me coming back to read the new chapters of this. It's kinda like the people who try surströmming: they KNOW it's gonna be GROSS AF but they do it anyway.... lol......

Sums it up perfectly :)

last edited at Jun 22, 2019 5:18PM

@Dreamloop May 19, 2019 2:30PM

This chapter just took the pointlessness of Citrus+ to a whole new level - and that's saying something. Here's Saburouta destroying her own (albeit already rather unimpressive) legacy.

Buuurrrrnnn...

last edited at Jun 25, 2019 1:00PM

@matsuri_wins Bloom Into You discussion 06 Jun 16:12

I was just being honest. I bet most people say these things, that they are "happy for the other person" after being rejected and the girl they like chose someone else, but it's just rationalization. The person considered you unfit for being with them, and thinks someone else is better. The message is clear, that you are not good enough for them, which is why it hurts usually.

So I'd never stick around to see the girl I'm into being all lovey dovey with someone else...At least for me it's a matter of self-respect lol Which is apparently what Sayaka lacks, since she is going to keep being friends with Touko despite crushing on the girl for what seems like years.

Only after I don't care anymore and have someone else, would I then become friends again. If I was Sayaka I would submit my StuCo resignation next day and ghost from the "friendship" :P But Bloom Into You is so extremely PC, obviously that won't happen.

Sagacious and on point as always.

@matsuri_wins June 20, 2019 7:20AM

This right here should be a pinned post, and made the best description of YuzuMei as a couple, a warning for anyone starting to read this BS story...

Also:
HARUMATSU WHEN

I am not here for anything else anymore, why does Mei keep showing her emo face in this story? All her problems can be summarized as lack of sex. Seriously.

About the editorial decisions, I wonder if there is someone at Yuri Hime or Sabu herself who thinks that if they show even some kissing right now that’s somehow BAD, like they will lose readers or something? I can’t believe Citrus is not losing Japanese readers at this point.

THIS. Nuff said.

@Dreamloop June 20, 2019 4:45AM

@blastaar @HuckaLeroo @Altair

Thanks for your hilarious comments, they really made my day. I wouldn't be surprised if UFOs and alien lesbians suddenly appeared out of nowhere, they'd be more realistic than what we've had so far.

I think the mods should add a comedy tag to this discussion since it's getting so out of hand.

IKR?!?!?! Thank Saburouta for all of the ensuing hilarity. This manga is the gift the just keeps giving XD

last edited at Jun 20, 2019 12:07PM

@Altair June 19, 2019 11:10PM

Lmao the business plan was all over the place and didn't make a lick of sense

"Bitch you want businesses? I run businesses. I'm the most successful business runner you've ever seen. Look at all my companies. We should instill a new value organization system. I run like 30 companies. Supreme executive power should be limited and come from a mandate of the people. This is totally relevant to operating a school."

Yeah i have no idea what it was laying out. It sounded like they were employing a lot of cloak and dagger proposal tactics with vague references to events I seem to be missing ending in a big "we got ya, suckers!" sort of reveal.

So... they're doing away with the strict dress code? And this is a monumental, subversive change which the highest levels of school administration have to be involved in? It really, really sounded like Saburouta doesn't have a handle on how to make a believable executive business meeting scene. It reminds me of that commercial where there are a bunch of office executives in a meeting room, but all their dialogue is voiced by children.

Like, who were the stakeholders and what were their aims? Why wasn't the board okay with passing on the school chairman position to someone else? Why is it even a big deal if they're ok with just throwing it to that one dude? And holy hell how much money does this school take in? The air of that meeting was one of a large company going after big business prospects. Is it part of a larger, for-profit school network? Or more equivalent to a university here in the US, making it a huge business endeavor? Or is the academy this insidious cultural engine, controlling the students and molding them into the perfect wives which these old dudes are all about maintaining?

Dude, I'm dying from laughter over here. To top it off, Mei actually thought that her and her teenage fiance had a legit shot of convincing these high power, cigar chomping, top shelf Sake drinking suits, that they had a real chance of running this (high profit?) educational institution/corporation??

Unless I missed something (feel free to correct), I believe they're 16/17 and she is vying to become the NEXT chairwoman. She made that impassioned plea to the board despite the fact that she hasn't even graduated high school or attended a university of any kind (does chick even have a resume??). So, according to Sabu's logic, being a student council president, the granddaughter of the current chairman and the daughter of his excommunicado son (along with his nonsensical one page flyer of a business plan) is enough qualification to run a highfalutin' organization like the academy?

Hey Mods, can we please put a comedy tag on this????

last edited at Jun 20, 2019 12:08PM

@Suigetsu June 19, 2019 2:20PM

Hmmm...okayyy...so this series is essentially a miquel? That's one way to go about progression, and it kind of makes sense, (maybe??) but, why bill it as a sequel if that's the case?

From what I remember reading it was billed as a spinoff, but people kept calling it a sequel.

Ah, gotcha. However, in their defense, even I would have billed it as a sequel if the author's afterward were to be believed in ch41 pg#30. Silly me, as her trix have proven to be for kids.

More stories showcasing this middle aged, sexless couple's "happiness" was promised to come, yet so far, we've seen nothing of the kind. Just more mild hot sauce flavored angst, and if anything, regression in their relationship. There is almost no physical intimacy to be found between them and maybe it's just me, but if you look at Mei's animations in particular, chick looks downright MISERABLE. She has smiled not once in the last six chapters! We're getting an up close glimpse of what 16 going on 66 looks like folks.

Seriously, Mei looks like she has the weight of the universe on her shoulders, and it's almost as if she's telling us, the audience, "STOP THE RIDE, I NEED TO GET OFF." It would be really apropos if this was a subconscious artistic choice on Sabu's part since she's drawing the characters (it's becoming apparent to me that even she's BEEN ready to throw in the towel on this saga for quite some time now.)

Personally, I think Yuzu should have ran for the hills, as she does not have the skills or psychiatric training to deal with Mei and her metric tonnes of baggage.

Lmao, I have never felt sooo bad for a pair of fictional/animated characters...Sabu if you are reading this, do the right thing and give these girls a rest. I know Yuzu has got to be emotionally exhausted.

last edited at Jun 20, 2019 12:09PM