Forum › Posts by circamoore

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 16 Dec 06:04
joined Feb 14, 2019

btw my current leading theory on why Akira (and Ayako to some extent) seem to have some guilty secret about Atsushi's death (incidentally, his death is yet another event Ayako could be flashing back to in the context of emotions):
Ayako didn't really love him, Akira knew it, and out of jealousy may even have taunted him about it just before his death. Akira is closer in age to Ayako than Atsushi was - she may even have met her first, and felt resentment that he "won"

Spoiler format just because other's speculative theories can be annoying, tho I like to think this one is more grounded than most.

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 16 Dec 05:33
joined Feb 14, 2019

I'll agree childhood abuse is one possible interpretation, but like the first foreshadowing flashbacks of Miyuki the images where ambiguous and lacking context. The only definite context we have is Ayako thinking about not understanding her own emotions. Also Ayako's anxiety seems to be manifesting as possessiveness not protectiveness.

Some people have mentioned alexithymia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia there's your word for the day) associated with autism spectrum, and that could also be part of it (and Asuka too, large genetic component), but there is also another major factor in play.

If I'm remembering correctly, Ayako's parents are dead and and we don't know how it happened or how young she was (before she got married afaics, thus teen or younger)... plenty of scope for sadness, loneliness, pain and fear there (and emotional disassociation).

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 09 Dec 05:35
joined Feb 14, 2019

Harking right back to the first two chapters, I don't recall seeing people mention this, but it struck me as very conspicuous: with a single parent working full time, Asuka is cooking dinner for the first time at sixteen years old, and even then because she is trying to make a romantic gesture.

My parents had me cooking years younger than that, and I got the impression Japanese culture was even more that way. That makes me think there is a strong subtext that Ayako has been coddling Asuka, which is also consistent with her initially critical reaction (which otherwise seems out of character) - she is threatened by Asuka not needing her (and does a rapid back track when she realises she hurt Asuka's feelings).

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 09 Dec 05:14
joined Feb 14, 2019

Wow, this makes the manga and Ayako and Asukas development so much better! Because this means Ayako also has had thoughts subconsciously before Asuka confesses. Soul mates?!

I was actually thinking the opposite, in that Asuka's body language was really obvious, yet it took Ayako until the middle of the next day (plus a hint from an unsuspecting co-worker) to put her finger on what it was. It suggests it was totally outside her thoughts (if she had feelings of her own, she probably would have jumped to a conclusion about Asuka more quickly). That's why I was wondering how obvious the delicious/oishisou ref was - ie if it was something an "innocent" mind would catch.

I have a feelng Alexrain is on the right track ( https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/521809 ), I'm not sure I think it has been as long as the whole two years, but Ayako acts so naive/inexperienced that it seems like this may be her first time falling in love. Even as she tells herself off for acting like Asuka's [jealous] partner, until this last chapter it doesn't occur to her she is acting that way because she is feeling that way. Interesting implications for her relationship with Asuka's father, and what Ayako and Akira may have to feel guilty about. I smell a flashback coming.

Building on that theory also suggests a different angle on the kissing thing - it has been stated Ayako has a lot of experience with people having crushes on her, yet it seems her legendary coldness always kept them at bay. She never reacted to their feelings, and that put people off. In addition to her tendency to coddle Asuka, her past experience may have led her to expect that people would just lose interest if she humored them (a couple of fatal flaws - Asuka is really persistent, and Ayako does react to her).

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 06 Dec 22:41
joined Feb 14, 2019

I think it refers to a lot of effort compared to normal on the bento, that's my guess anyways.

It occurs to me that I never stated the meaning of おいしそう (oishisou). Probably assuming everyone knows Japanese better than me. Literally it means "delicious looking", and that is the "proper" meaning. Dictionaries also list a slang meaning, hot/sexy/desirable.
https://jisho.org/word/%E7%BE%8E%E5%91%B3%E3%81%97%E3%81%9D%E3%81%86

So a couple of pages earlier (p9) Ayako was struggling to find the right word for how Asuka looked lying on the bed underneath her ("a different kind of cute"), then Saya said oishisou and Ayako suddenly had a word for the vibe she had been getting from Asuka... one which made her lose her appetite. It is a good gag, just one that I suspect works a bit better in Japanese than in English (for a start a single word for "delicious looking" is a bit more obvious that just "delicious" since it refers to appearance).

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 06 Dec 22:07
joined Feb 14, 2019

I thought I'd dropped the おいしそう thing, but this morning it suddenly popped into my mind that Google could provide a bit of insight into common usage.

Using Google (google.com.au accessed from Australia) image search (since images are easy to classify at a glance):
"delicious" has no "sexy" results, all related to food or names/brands (ie not going to count "DJ Delicious" since it is a deliberately ambiguous stage name, not a direct usage).
"おいしそう" has 3 results relating to sexual attractiveness (admittedly among 100s related to food; diluted a bit in that the results also had matches for 美味しそう).
The three hits were: Two articles for women wanting to be attractive, and one blogging about how her legs look in shorts, so looks like the "sexy" usage is probably a bit more prominent that for delicious in English, and would plausibly occur to/be used by a woman.

Thinking about it, a large part of the reason it caught my attention is that Taiyaki is usually very conscientious about reminding the reader if she makes a reference that isn't obvious.

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 28 Nov 18:42
joined Feb 14, 2019

It literally was "delicious" I swear.

Thank you, that answers the question bugging me: it was おいしそう.

Not disputing that delicious seems like the best translation and, as I mentioned, I couldn't think of a better English word for the spot even trying for implication without worrying about what the original was (and "sexy" is too far in the other direction). Implication is something that varies with social background even in the same language, so I'm not sure if there is a good solution. I suppose if the implication is different a translation note like for a pun might help.

Does oishisou in casual Japanese have a more obvious double meaning than delicious does in English?
I'm nowhere near familiar enough with Japanese to know (my impression was based on jisho.org entry feeling hot/sexy meaning was common enough to list, but then the same applies to delicious in English).
In English "delicious" for "sexy" tends to make me think of a leering dirty old man saying it, ie if your mind is already in the gutter, but that might be specific to my background.

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 27 Nov 20:19
joined Feb 14, 2019

I think my favourite moment so far was the incriminating Venn diagram on ch6 p15. It makes me smile every time that an innocent factual Venn diagram says so much (incriminating) about Asuka's thoughts in the context of a sexuality discussion.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/1_x_ch06#16

circamoore
1 x ½ discussion 27 Nov 20:08
joined Feb 14, 2019

I didn't "get" that ref at the end of 13.1+α on the first pass (though clear in retrospect, comments suggest I wasn't the only one. I think at least for me the double meaning of "delicious" wasn't quite obvious enough; as below putting the images in closer proximity helps).

It has been bugging me, does anyone know what word was used in Japanese?
Was it something with a more obvious double meaning? (the obviousness also has connotations for Ayako's thought process, if it is obvious it is less incriminating).

The raws don't seem that easy to find... poking around jisho.org seemed to suggest おいしそう may have the right sort of blatant double meaning, but that is just guessing. Made me realise how tricky translation can be sometimes since I can't think of an exactly right English word ("delicious" needs context, and thus implies context. tasty, yummy also not quite).

That awkard moment when you realize you want to EAT your cute daughter

(^ Jeanne Mathison post from June, https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/482760)

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

Anyone else disturbed by how many readers find Risako gaslighting Kaoru to be romantic?

Her friend was looking to her for reassurance, and she lied to her, waited until she was vulnerable, then implied she was paranoid and guilted her into apologizing.

circamoore
joined Feb 14, 2019

There are lot of approaches to story telling, like painting has realism, impressionism etc, ultimately even plot is optional.

I enjoy reading this, it is among my favourite manga, and I get a feeling of happy anticipation whenever I get a notification for a new chapter, so I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the author is doing something right.

It isn't obvious where things are going, but I don't feel like the lack of plot direction is a particular problem. I don't really have the background to get in to technical literary criticism (I opted out of English in school at the earliest opportunity), but I think what sets this story apart is the emotion. The emotional "images" in this story are incredibly vivid, Uta's painful unrequited yearning, Kaoru's empty aimlessness, and the little moments of contentment they find together. Even the "side stories" add depth and detail to the thoughts and emotion of the two main characters (remember mostly they are stories that Uta is observing or being told that she is reflecting on to understand her own feelings), and get the reader thinking about the nature of love and relationships.

I do agree with some of the other posts noting that serialisation isn't the best way to read this story, since reading a number of chapters in a burst is much better to build an emotional "flow", but I guess that is just a good excuse for regular re-reading ;)

circamoore
Citrus + discussion 20 Oct 03:34
joined Feb 14, 2019

Why should “a few stolen seconds” be a big deal when they live in same house and sleep together every night?

And a posy is just lawn clippings... it is about the feelings behind it. I'm not sure why this needs explaining since getting a crazy high from being near each other is a thing in pretty much every love story ever written. Yuzu is talking a few seconds "off" to bask in her feelings at a time when she would otherwise have been doing something else. Love isn't really rational like that, even if we want to get animal behavioral science about it, regular little symbolic bonding gestures are important to reinforce pair bonds.

circamoore
Citrus + discussion 19 Oct 23:17
joined Feb 14, 2019

It seems like people are reading a different story than I am, so it feels like it would be constructive to describe what I've read.

Previous chapter (6) Mei let Yuzu know (obliquely, but this is Mei we are talking about) that she wants, and values, the support she gives her, even going so far as to declare it in front of the board (& Yuzu in turn told Mei how happy that made her). Mei has devoted most of her life to the school and her family legacy, making Yuzu part of that is a huge deal.

This chapter (7) Yuzu talks to her friends and thinks about what she what she wants from her relationship in the present, and sets out to get it. She gets her stolen moment, telling Mei what she is doing, that it is precious to her, and in the process showing her that if they understand their feelings, romance can be as simple as a few seconds together. And because she explained her feelings, Mei felt it too (remember this is Mei, who had a panic attack about deviating from that perfect date script).

circamoore
Citrus + discussion 19 Oct 21:36
joined Feb 14, 2019

I don't usually comment, but with the chorus of complaints I feel like I should stand up and be counted among the ones who liked it. I like that Mei is finding herself, embracing what she wants, for the school and for her personal life, and trying to find ways to show Yuzu how she feels.

I liked they way the first series ended, with a promise about the future (the wedding), and that now, secure in that promise, we get to see the growth of their relationship, but we have to remember that future is still a long way off.

It has been many long years for us, but for the characters, in universe, it has been hardly any time at all. They are teenagers, still in high school FFS. They are still discovering who they are themselves (especially Mei). I really identify with Mei, and it seems like most of the time she barely even understands her own emotions, but she loves Yuzu and she doesn't want to hurt her, so of course she wants to go slow. It has been made clear that Yuzu and Mei are sexually attracted to each other, so I'm sure they will get there eventually.

Sex is part of the relationship scenery, some check it out right away, others take the scenic route and some never get there at all. It is not the finish line, it doesn't "make" the relationship. I'm not against sex in romance stories (eg I like the way sex is used in Hanjuku Joshi), but I really don't think there is any hard and fast rule about when/if it has to come in to make things "real".