A gay best friend? And with that, the plot thickens.

or thins, depending on how many other hundreds of mangas you've read that just happens to have a gay best friend lol

her last line kinda proves not only is her gf still alive, but they are still together.

I don't think this is what a real kid's reaction is like, or am I just out of touch with how the new generation thinks?

Itou Hachi being in touch with the new generation is the nightmare scenario.

iseewhatyoudidthar LOL

does it really matter what was used? it's gorgeous. and the swans i think are just fr the heart shape their heads together make

I don't like how matter of factly it treats her rejection, treating it as though it was inevitable.

it kinda was though, because i'm pretty sure it was already well established that he likes hime,

the smudge on her shirt on the very right looks like she's lactating, and now i can't unsee it lol.

and this goes to show, you can make yuri out of anything. ANYTHING XD

Never say I didn't try.

did you really move to the mountains? LOL It's kinda funny phrase but hurray if it's true. Sounds serene :)

I did. I already hate ski tourists, so I fit right in with the locals.

where i live we have ski tourists in winter, then cruise ship tourists in summer, i feel your pain x20 lol

India is extremely open about this stuff

Just letting you know India is not at all open about sexuality, or anything progressive, I guess.
The law that made homosexuality illegal was only abolished in September 2018, barely passed the 1 year milestone :'(

i think they meant nudity and skinship

LOOOOL I had the same thing, only I was like 15 or 16. I didn't realize till much later just why I privately shipped Gabrielle and Xena so hard XD. (And that I totally had a crush on Gabrielle.)

lol omg yes xena and gabrielle.

Uhm... sounds like you grew up on the early 90s or something. I'm sorry, are we not talking about current times? This manga takes place in the present and she is in her early 20s. That means she was born at the end of 90s and grew up in the early odds. By the time she was old enough to care about porn, the internet was far enough to make that easily available.
And even the manga aside, everyone who is in their early 20s right now is in the same boat, so I think my view is pretty justified...

Japan has strong skinship culture, India is extremely open about this stuff, I hear similar things about Malaysia and Indonesia. I'm not saying every region is the same, but overall the cultures in Asia are far more open to such things than the Western ones. Of course there is Eastern Europe where nudity is also seen as less of a taboo in quite a few countries, so it's just going to be more rather than less.

Well good thing I didn't say that then. I quite clearly stated that one experiences an episode of attraction - not figure out ones sexuality. This was never about realizing that one is gay. I don't know what to tell you, that is literally what I said.
And my example of someone figuring it out through comics is just a fact. There is a link a few pages back. Everyone has a different trigger moment.

It is far more out of the ordinary to assume this manga for no reason whatsoever takes place 2 decades ago. Especially because she owns a Smartphone.
Seriously, I think most of your rebuttal is based on the fact that you didn't properly read what I said. I said it is unlikely. How can I possibly impart this any more clearly than I did in my previous post?

lol you keep bringing that one single person who figured out they are gay from comics like it's a template. my whole argument started because ppl were saying o.m.g. how does one not know they are gay by the time they are twenty? so i was telling them why. even in this day and age, for places all over the world there are thousands of reasons why someone wouldn't know, and saying it's unlikely is being narrow minded, and frankly a little rude. and for the record, i never said i thought this manga took place 2 decades ago. maybe you're not properly reading.

@xxcindybeexx: Thanks for sharing your experience. It made me happy and also made me laugh. I think my experience was similar (though it sounds like I discovered the manga a bit earlier, heh).

I was a child in the 90s, one of my peers was verbally harassed and the source of many rumors after announcing her crush on our 6th grade teacher, and I crushed on a number of smart, lanky boys as late as my 20th year.

Your ability to frame your emotions and interactions is vital; so it is not at all unlikely for someone to reach early or even late adulthood depending on their environment and exposure.
Calling it weird or "out of the ordinary" can feel dismissive an hurt (however unintentional).

Many people still don't have regular , high-bandwidth internet access. (Mind-blowing, right?)

Anyway, all I wanted to say was thank you, @xxcindybeexx, for sharing your experience, and I'm still really curious as to how this story will unfold. (It feels honest, raw and ...painful. I'm here for it. ..for now ^^ ;)

P.S. I'm not a porn fan, but how that is treated with respect to girls watching it versus boy is just one of the many still strong sex/gender-based double-standards. Progress feels as slow as ever some days. :D

yea here in alaska, we still only get 30GBS net speed, and this is one of the bigger cities.

and the whole reason i started the argument was because of the "what kind of idiot doesn't know they are gay by the time they hit 20" vibe a lot of ppl were giving. i mean i really don't think the author even thought beyond this is what he/she wanted her character to be like, and ppl trashing on her for the "unlikeliness" of it. like no, it's not, if you spend 5 mins thinking about it. though tbh as we go into chapter 3, we can clearly see why she's never considered it, if you read the conversation between the MC and her mom. but what would i know i guess /shrug ;)

Edit: and from the amount of comments saying how relate-able this manga is, pretty sure tells how likely this whole thing really is.

last edited at Jan 14, 2020 3:26AM

It seems, unbeknownst to Shiina her powers are increasing (doing some healing magic on Mimi's bruised head, giving life to the plant). For a moment I wondered if the roommate had secretly performed the spell on Shiina -- but then I recalled Shiina having had a 3-days-old injury the day after her roommate died and also losing an arm...

i don't think they are increasing, just that they are in a school to teach them magic for war, and that is not where her powers lie. she has been getting measured by the wrong standards. it's like an autistic kid who's super math genius, but can barely string two words together if talked to. so you put them in a class for public speaking, stick em in front of everyone and tell them to recite poetry, of course they'd fail.

I won't downplay your personal experience, I never denied it is possible. It should be mentioned though that you don't need to have someone from your strike zone among your peers to feel attraction. Just watching media with beautiful women in them can have just the same effect. I mean, someone posted an example of someone figuring it out from comics after all.
Porn is not really necessary to reach that conclusion, but I think it's a weird stereotype that girls these days don't watch porn. You know that porn is also a taboo among boys? Adults always try to keep it from all younger people. It doesn't work for either sex. Not with the internet so readily available to most countries these days. And seeing other naked women is actually not very uncommon in Asian countries, so even if porn is highly regulated, there are still lots of opportunities.

I guess what I am getting at is that my original statement still stands: It's unlikely to never experience an episode of attraction until the 20s. Not impossible, not even super rare, but unlikely. At least in this day and age.

edit: And that doesn't mean one figures out what that attraction means or that you are a lesbian.

j/w but how old are you? i mean, maybe for kids just figuring things out TODAY it's just as you say, but--and not to sound old or anything--when i was still in middle school/highschool things definitely weren't this way. back then yes porn was tabboo. and when i was in middle school if you wanted to see anything pornographic on the computer you'd have to wait an hr just for one picture to show up lol. after waiting an hr just to connect online. hell even in HS scanlations were still becoming something new. i had been used to translations that were getting posted online, like reading play scripts, and was absolutely blown away when i first discovered that you could SEE A WHOLE MANGA ONLINE. and saying asians seeing other naked women isn't uncommon is making YOUR own stereotype. not ALL of them visit bath houses. which is i assume largely where they would see other non family member naked women. and it's becoming even less common as time goes on.

and saying you could figure out you're gay just from watching tv is silly. the way you react to something on tv and someone right there is completely different. WAY too easy to pass someone you've only seen on the telly as a simple admiration. it's like...liking a dog cause it's cute, but you don't want to fuck it. hell if it was that easy i woulda figured it out when i was like 6, cause i was WAY more into xena than i knew lol. all i knew was i really really liked the show and liked her, i didn't know WHY.

all in all, we don't really know the time frame the author wants this manga to be, or even if they put much effort other than "modern." because all that old timey sounding situations i grew up in? really wasn't that long ago, i'm only 33. we don't know what her family life was like growing up, what kind of schools she went to, to have missed the signs as she grew up. so saying it's not realistic for her not to know already is being ignorant. i mean i doubt the author even thought beyond that they just wanted their character to have not known yet. i just think saying she should have is silly. maybe she is pansexual. maybe she has a low libido so never reacted strongly enough to someone to recognize it.

last edited at Jan 10, 2020 1:24PM

BugDevil posted:

So an unaware lesbian woman never having felt any attraction to another woman in over 20 years is at the very least unlikely.

It's actually not as implausible as you think. Obviously we don't know her entire life, so it's hard to explain everything, but for once she might simply never fallen in love with other woman or encounter her type. Odds are small, but it can happen. And considering what we know about mc, as in she spend her entire life listening about love stories, dating and how having partner and not being alone is the most important thing in life (something I can relate to wholeheartedly, as someone who don't consider being in relationship the be all and end all of life, while being constantly told so) and constantly trying to date guys and hook up with pretty much anybody, I'd say she didn't really spend too much time looking at girls or bonding with her friends (since all they ever talked about was love). And again, since the thought of being attracted to girls never occurred to her, she might never noticed that she felt any lvl of attraction to one or even if she did, she might not realized what it was or just missed it. Definitely not case for her, but if someone takes longer to feel attraction/bond with someone, they could also never feel attraction, if they never tried to be closer with other girls. So it might sound like a extreme case, but given the right circumstances I really don't think, her never experiencing any attraction is that far-fetched.

idk why ppl would think it's implausible for someone to go into their 20's without realizing it. the hetero norm is shoved down your throat so strongly as we grow up, that when you find yourself not reacting to guys the way everyone else does you start thinking it's something wrong with yourself, before considering other possibilities. i know exactly where this character is coming from. while i never hated myself, i definitely felt i was different. if you're not physically close to other females, it's easy to not recognize your reactions to those you do come close to, especially if you're strike zone is not in your peer group. for me it's older women, so my sisters' friends XD but i did not recognize it because i did not normally hang out with them, and i didn't even know it could be a thing. and then when i was old enough to start working, the idea of being "that way" was ruined for me by the way a 7th grade teacher was totally shit on when a RUMOR was started that she was lesbian. but also at the time there was a guy i knew liked me, and i confused being flattered that he liked me as me also liking him, making me push the thought of being "that way" further from my thoughts. plus the other girl was married lol.

people blessed with the right surroundings, events, and people around them will certainly figure things out earlier, but not everyone is that lucky.

edit: and another thing that makes it harder for girls: porn is such a shamed and tabboo thing for younger girls to see/look at, so it's not even like many until their 20's that have really seen a lot of other naked women. boys have it much easier in that regard lol. like oh damn i'm getting way more turned on by the dude in this porno than the girl, maybe i'm actually gay.

last edited at Jan 8, 2020 3:46PM

These two are so great that I can't get enough of their interactions. And even though one is clearly more serious and the other more aloof, they still have such distinct personalities. Like, I love how antenna girl is mostly serious, but bad at school and also frequently thinking about touching her girlfriend (just when they have privacy). Or how long hair girl is mostly clingy and over the top, but she still has her really innocent moments and sweet thoughts. I really look forward to more of them in the future. Also, how much do their parents know about their relationship?

i don't see how anyone in their lives doesn't know, with how clingy they are and the fact that they even kiss at school lol. they do not look like they would be good at hiding their relationship

It's only because the chapters has been uploaded all at once today that people aren't reacting (but most likely the request to upload them was made some time ago).

I'm one who knows the story past this point but of course I'm not gonna spoil it, but my general impression was WOW hahaha when I saw the teacher changing from Ufufufu to "ugghh >_>" that was fresh, I like to see where this goes and I like the characters.... except the childhood friend, she can fuck off for all I care.

And you know I think we need more stories like this, something about passion and eroticism without going full hentai and with a compelling story, by the way this author made hentai but I don't see stupid fanservice here like "kyaaa d-don't look at my panties x0" with forced low angles all the time. I say that we need more stories like this because it feels like we're mostly jumping from fluffy to crazy yandere/ntr hell and if not then is something super serious or dramatic where you don't even know if we'll get yuri or not at the end.... So yeah, what I'm saying here is that I like this take on yuri, because the characters don't always have good intentions and they aren't just bad just because.

So you're going to fight the good fight, huh, Serenata-sama?

My respect goes to you. As for me, as I said when we were talking about this series in the 'Manga En Español' thread, I don't want any part in the debate of the English-speakers. This sort of story isn't for them. Reactions are going to be sanguinary. It's gonna be even worse than with Kimi Wa Shoujo.

Good luck to you. Me, since I don't want to read insults against this lovely and amazing manga, I'm outta here. Ta-ta.

well that's a bit insulting. i'm an english speaker and i fully enjoyed this for what it was. not everyone is an evangelist ffs. i completely agree we need more yuri like this >:D

this is incredibly beautiful. and her asking her friend to wait an entire year for her reply incredibly stupid. i was really into it until she requested that, then it jarred me out of it and i was like wtf.

Maybe I haven't read many magic stories, but even if this is a common trope, at least there is some thought put into this story.
To me, it does seem like the author has put some effort to their characters and location set up. I like the two mains too. (I know, shy introverted girl and cold girl. You can't get away from these)
I don't think it's easy to find something mind blowing and original anyway. But there are tons of shitty and cliche stories in here with highschool girls that get praised for just being uwu, so this doesn't deserve hate imo.

This chapter stopped in the worst moment.

a character doesn't have to be completely original to be unique, to have that spark that makes you believe that character is that character and not like anyone else. example, a webtoon i've been reading recently, one of the main characters, tall "prince" like is a basic description, but she feels wholly and completely herself, not some cookie cutter character. they can have basic tropes and characteristics, but without a soul, they feel very 2d and flat.

Every thing itou hachi puts out is just more and more blatantly pedophilic, you ever think one of these days maybe it should just not get uploaded on here anymore

LMAO uhhhhhh i do believe softcharm has already pretty much published the worst of the worst, there is nothing that can be put on this site that that's worse that what softcharm has already done XD even i won't touch softcharm no matter how bored i get XD

DschingisKhan posted:

Really? Fall in love and lose your magic? Again? I hope that turns out to be a lie, because it wasn't even interesting the first time.

To be frank, I don't remember the other stories that have this rule... It feels familiar but nothing more.

lol when i first read that i was like ugh again? also, but i think it's really only been done in one other manga. the whole idea is stupid though and a cheap tactic for drama, because loving someone is mostly out of your hands, so the set up of it stands out more and give us that (AGAIN?) response. tbh the story of her other work girl x girl x boy felt much better because there's just so much in this one that people have already mentioned that doesn't make sense. nothing about this one feels unique or original, not even the characters. like if someone made an algorithm program, inputting a bunch of different yuri themes and tropes, this is what it would make. but to be fair it's only 2 chapters in, maybe she will surprise us.

darn it beefaroni you said what i wanted to say lol

I’m usually okay with Itou Hachi, and this one was pretty cute. But. I see no child there. She needs to talk to some real children [...]

I'm sure there's a court order preventing that

omg lmao that one had me going.

on to the topic of grooming...she is 100% doing that. if i found out that a college aged adult had some kind of pact like this with my 10 yr old daughter i would go apeshit. you take this set up and plug it into the real world. a real, little 10 yr old girl, with a full grown adult, making vows like this to have sex when she turns 18, and maintaining a dating (granted sex free) relationship until then, and you can feel how wrong that is. but, then again, this whole scenario is fiction. idk why japanese manga artists think that kids in preschool are capable of falling in love so frequently when they are not lol. and the artist tries to make people think aww isn't the older girl sweet, she's making them wait til the child is of age before they do anything and i'm just like what? lol. it's okay for her to be so into listening to the kid peeing, going as far as going in to even watch her do it, so long as she doesn't sleep with the kid? what a low bar lol.

and this isn't written to say zomgz deletes all the loli mangas burn in hell. i occasionally read some, more often out of boredom when nothing good has been uploaded in a few days, but honestly? as wrong and horrible as pedophelia is, what if, WHAT IF, being able to get on these sites, and read a few of these a day, is enough to keep a real pedo happy, and from going out and actually going for a real kid? to play devil's advocate as it were, i can't imagine EVERYONE who finds their attractions to kids are too happy about it themselves, and are able to find just being able to read these on here is enough to satisfy their fantasies. idk, this is all theoretical, i've never met or talked to a real pedo, nor am i a psychologist, so it's all just supposition. bottom line, pedophilia is a thing, and no matter how people rant and rave it will never go away. but if they can stare at a manga for a few hours, beat themselves off and be done for the day instead of staring at one of my daughters fantasizing about one of them, i'd say let the authors keep writing.

edit: and when i do read a loli manga myself, you bet i never skip out on the comments they are always so funny lol

last edited at Dec 12, 2019 1:19PM

I don't like the teacher.......

i actually thought she was the most interesting one lol. and the whole "do something lewd with me once a day and i'll go to class" feels like a rip off of hinosan no baka.

What's going to bug me the most about this is Mai taking advantage of (if not predating upon) Nanoha's kindness, and the fact that it's probably going to have a big negative impact on Nanoha when this all blows up.
I realize manipulators are a pretty common trope for a series, but they just always pinch a nerve for me especially.

The thing about Mai's behavior is that, while she certainly is being manipulative, there's no sign that she's being dishonest. Her breakdown in front of Nanoha in chapter 60 wasn't just a performance; she genuinely feels adrift and alone. Also, her manipulation so far has been pretty harmless. She wants to spend more time with Nanoha, so she pulls on Nanoha's emotions in a way that will make her spend more time with her. But if she had just come out and said that she needed her to be there for her, Nanoha would've said yes.

she says very clearly she wants nanoha as her gf, what she is doing is pure manipulation. you see that smirk after nanoha hugs her. i don't think her talking about her not having friends was genuine in the least. not to say her having no friends isn't true, but she was definitely using it to get nanoha. she knows how caring nanoha is and played her like a harpstring. adn it's not harmless, she's actively trying to steal nanoha away. she SAW them kissing, she KNOWS they are obviously together. how is that not harmless?

That's not a smirk, that's a smile. She's smiling because she's happy that she's being comforted. That is a normal human response. Nothing in the art or dialogue suggests she's being false or deceptive, and the paneling on pages 151-153 in particular suggests genuine emotion. On 152, the author conveys Mai's feeling of emptiness through the art. On page 153, Mai tries to dismiss what she said because she's embarrassed for accidentally sharing too much, and she's surprised to see how strongly Nanoha has reacted. Not exactly the reactions of someone who planned it all out to guilt-trip her. I guess you could read the chapter and interpret things your way, but I believe you're ignoring strong textual and artistic cues in order to project your reading onto the chapter.

I said her manipulation is harmless because she hasn't actually done anything to negatively impact Nanoha's relationship with Chidori. Her motive (steal Nanoha away) might be wicked, but I'd say it's better to judge someone by their actions. Has she tried to turn Nanoha away from Chidori? No. Has she interfered in their relationship in any way? No. All she's done is reestablished ties with an old friend. A result of that is that Nanoha has spent a little less time with Chidori, but that's just how life works. We each have limited time and have to decide how to allocate that.

no that's a smirk. it's a fairly common image to portray a smug feeling like that, where they just show the mouth, no eyes. and her being embarrassed for "accidentally sharing too much" is pretty commonly used as well. it's to make themselves look even more pathetic. and obviously she will try something or the author wouldn't have put her in with this set up at all ;) of course you can say don't judge people by what they haven't done, but this is a book, not real people, and authors often follow fairly predictable patterns.

What's going to bug me the most about this is Mai taking advantage of (if not predating upon) Nanoha's kindness, and the fact that it's probably going to have a big negative impact on Nanoha when this all blows up.
I realize manipulators are a pretty common trope for a series, but they just always pinch a nerve for me especially.

The thing about Mai's behavior is that, while she certainly is being manipulative, there's no sign that she's being dishonest. Her breakdown in front of Nanoha in chapter 60 wasn't just a performance; she genuinely feels adrift and alone. Also, her manipulation so far has been pretty harmless. She wants to spend more time with Nanoha, so she pulls on Nanoha's emotions in a way that will make her spend more time with her. But if she had just come out and said that she needed her to be there for her, Nanoha would've said yes.

she says very clearly she wants nanoha as her gf, what she is doing is pure manipulation. you see that smirk after nanoha hugs her. i don't think her talking about her not having friends was genuine in the least. not to say her having no friends isn't true, but she was definitely using it to get nanoha. she knows how caring nanoha is and played her like a harpstring. adn it's not harmless, she's actively trying to steal nanoha away. she SAW them kissing, she KNOWS they are obviously together. how is that not harmless?

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 2:57AM

lmao the hand holding reference had me rolling