Erika on the other hand is the most conflicted character of the trio and seems to be the more self aware of the three. And she is hiding something, which has yet to be revealed.

Which is one reason I find these “Erika is being so evil” takes so entirely unfounded—only the readers know about her desires, motivations, and conflicted feelings, so everything she does gets interpreted through that screen, even when, or maybe especially when, her actions themselves are quite benign. It will be very interesting to see how the other two react (I’m assuming “when” rather than “if”) they learn that they’ve been in a love triangle all along.

And of course my previous main point was that the implied “Erika is a malicious witch who has intentionally ruined the lives of the other two by means of her supernatural spiriting-away powers” reading is (at least at this point, and probably forever) 99.9% reader fabulation.

last edited at Dec 18, 2024 6:06AM

It's all fucking Erika's fault.

This argument shows no understanding of the concept of “cause and effect” as understood on planet Earth, where thoughts only have consequences when they are turned into actions.

Erika’s personal attitudes and internal emotions have had no demonstrable effect on what happened to Aya seven years ago or on the relationship dynamic between Aya and Koto either back then or after Aya’s return. Erika’s actual actions have mainly served to support Aya (giving her a place to stay when Koto wouldn’t even talk to her and after Aya found Koto’s desires too confining, as well as giving her reasonable personal advice.)

We don’t know how the supernatural element in this story works or who caused it, so it’s theoretically possible that Aya’s disappearance will somehow turn out to be Erika’s “fault,” but anyone who claims that it is for sure at this point is simply irrationally ranting.

last edited at Dec 17, 2024 9:43AM

Citing specific evidence from the text rather than speculation or headcanon, please explain exactly what Erika did seven years ago.

No need to explain it to you.
@Aikosaurus knows what I'm talking about lol.

In other words, you have no answer. Or at least not one that depends upon actual evidence.

last edited at Dec 16, 2024 10:19PM

Erika literally doesn't need me to make her look like terrible people. It's not like her selfish love for Koto can really last that long. She fucking knows what she had done seven years ago, which also traumatized her to the point she's also stuck in the past.

Citing specific evidence from the text rather than speculation or headcanon, please explain exactly what Erika did seven years ago.

When it comes to the “how would you feel if . . .?” judgmental hypotheticals, I think that all the readers who have had their crush, or their crush’s crush, disappear for seven years during middle school then reappear physically unchanged and with no memory of the intervening timespan probably are the best people to address such questions.

Or those who have been spirited away themselves, of course.

And @Nya-chan, I read New Unwanted Guy as less trying to “seduce” Aya than nervously bumbling his way into an attempt to chat her up. (He’s also not wrong about how cute that dress is, either.)

And Aya is profoundly not wrong about how proms can be a lot less fun than they look.

Um, squee?

OK, yes, upon reflection, I’m going with “squee!”

I kinda don't really care about arata

Same. He's alright but I don't care for him more than what could have been in his place.

Even if (in an extreme hypothetical case) we did care about Arata, the stakes of Yuzu’s angst aren’t even clear—so she doesn’t know if she should tell him about the potential merger of the two schools, which Mei thinks he already knows about but Yuzu knows he doesn’t (I think).

And . . . so what? What are the stakes for anybody of Yuzu telling him or not?

(Meanwhile, Yuzu’s bizarre talking-popsicle analogy doesn’t help one little bit.)

Will there ever be a day when people stop acting like there are "evil" or "good" characters in this work, as opposed to characters with their own desires that may conflict with the others'?

Evidence so far strongly suggests “No.”

This has always been absolutely gorgeous, but it’s also always been a “now how is this going to work?” premise.

I have no idea how this is going to work.

i'd had this happen irl to me and no friendship has ended because of it, but it has made me pissed at the very least. tell me if you wouldn't be pissed if your lifelong best friend tells you they ain't going to your birthday and instead is hanging out with their gf, maybe not pissed, but wouldn't you be hurt a bit?

I only know when most of my friends' birthdays are from social media. I do know the date of my childhood best friend's mostly because it's close to mine.

So no, I wouldn't be remotely close to being hurt.

your situation is completely different to what's happening in the manga so I won't bother taking your argument into account, these are real life friends who clearly have some interest into being at each other's birthday, yours clearly aren't friendships like this one

If my direct answer to the actual question you asked somehow isn’t relevant, that could be an indication that you might rethink being so vociferous with glib generalizations about what proper “friends” do about birthdays.

Imagine having friendships so shallow that missing one birthday is enough reason to end a friendship, real friends don't need strict schedules or some kind of obligations to be friends, friends are friends because they like to hang out when possible and they will always have each other's back in tough times.

i'd had this happen irl to me and no friendship has ended because of it, but it has made me pissed at the very least. tell me if you wouldn't be pissed if your lifelong best friend tells you they ain't going to your birthday and instead is hanging out with their gf, maybe not pissed, but wouldn't you be hurt a bit?

I only know when most of my friends' birthdays are from social media. I do know the date of my childhood best friend's mostly because it's close to mine.

So no, I wouldn't be remotely close to being hurt.

last edited at Dec 10, 2024 1:38PM

@feihong, you have the best wall o' text posts on Dynasty--always glad to see one.

It's in that spirit, because you're such a notably good writer and sophisticated critic, that I point out that the term for "habitual cultural values" is spelled "mores," although it's pronounced "morays."

last edited at Dec 7, 2024 4:23PM

"This isn't wholesome because racism" strikes me as the far-fetched take here.

Arguing based on exterior sources is what irks me. I don't know Beastars, but if you point at its ~8 million units where there is such a predator-prey dynamic, I point at the just-as-big RWBY where this is a metaphor for racism (probably, I'm not up-to-date on it). Then you name Zootopia with its dozen of millions of viewers, I'll call Arknights with as many downloads, and we achieved nothing by bringing external tropes into this.

If you want to interpret this that way, fine, many did. But I couldn't. It reminds me a bit of the discussion on Clumsy Call last month, with a similar disparity between those who recognized an uncomfortable dynamic and those who didn't.

I guess today is Opposite Day—you get “irked” when I reference another work where social tensions between anthropomorphic herbivores and carnivores are the central theme, then you “refute” my argument by citing some other series I’ve never heard of.

By internal evidence alone this story is obviously about a naive but good-hearted herbivore protagonist learning about an exceptionally benign individual carnivore. If you choose to find that “uncomfortable,” and “unwholesome,” by all means knock yourself out.

Um, as anthropomorphic series like Beastars are all about, relationships between carnivores and herbivores (i.e.,predators and prey) are not exactly the same as those among human races/ethnicities.

Relying on intertextuality seems far fetched; I see no sign of such a conflict being invoked. Reading the beginning, the other patrons don't exposition-dump us with "those are known threats" but spread rumours about outcasts. Actual wildlife isn't wary of Wolf-san and she never shows violent impulses; in fact, she seems to be unaware of this being a concern to others at all.

Obviously, the wolf- MC is positioned as an unexpected exception to the rule, as indicated by the pair of people saying, "Belle-chan, you'll get eaten!" at the end.

"This isn't wholesome because racism" strikes me as the far-fetched take here.

Yeah, the artstyle's cute, but I don't see any wholesomeness here. "Wolf-san seemed unapproachable at first" - no, you're just a racist little bugger who immediatly assumes that foreigner is out to shank you. I'd forgive that if there was character growth, but no, only the same "raw meat" line re-iterated throughout.

Um, as anthropomorphic series like Beastars are all about, relationships between carnivores and herbivores (i.e.,predators and prey) are not exactly the same as those among human races/ethnicities.

It’s not “prejudice” to be wary of the kind of beings whose basic instinct is to kill and devour you.

I just re-read the whole thing, and while I’m usually in the “let repetitive comedy manga be repetitive and not worry too much about progress” camp, romantic progress really was baked into the premise of this one, and by the start of the ski-trip arc it really seemed to be less about the characters developing and more about the author manipulating the plot to keep what must happen from actually happening.

And sure, “smart and observant characters are super-dense about the one most important thing” is a time-honored yuri trope, but in this case to it’s just become shop-worn.

To the point where every time the phrase “best friends” is used to block development I feel like punching something. Figuratively speaking.

Anything other than the literal "I love you, please be my girlfriend" doesn't cut it in this situation

Preferably with her hands wrapped around Yuzu’s neck and then screaming, “Do you get it? Do you GET it!?! Say yes or I’ll fucking strangle you!”

Or something along those lines.

Alternatively fully strapped up and mid sex while confessing, maybe, and it's a big maybe, but it might actually get through then lol

Could work, but throw a pair of pink fuzzy handcuffs in there. Just to be sure.

Anything other than the literal "I love you, please be my girlfriend" doesn't cut it in this situation

Preferably with her hands wrapped around Yuzu’s neck and then screaming, “Do you get it? Do you GET it!?! Say yes or I’ll fucking strangle you!”

Or something along those lines.

Can someone please explain Yuzu’s popsicle analogy to me? Beyond “Sometimes there’s nothing you can do,” I guess.

I’m trying to find a way to not think of this as the stupidest and most boring chapter yet.

Well, Granny has an interesting character design, so that’s kind of new.

I’m guessing Mei’s “That doesn’t have anything to do with you” statement isn’t supposed to come off as quite so much as “That’s none of your business/don’t worry your pretty little empty head about it” as it might appear at first glance. But it’s certainly yet another instance of Mei fending off Yuzu and keeping her at arm’s length.

Never stopping to think, “Wait, does Japan even have dedicated lesbian brothels/escort services? Does anywhere?”

We looked into this before, and there seem to be at least two in Tokyo, with 'lesbian' or 'yuri' right in the names.

As opposed to the one on every street corner in yuri manga. . . .

I think it's a good general principle that the actions depicted in comedy manga should not be taken as a guidebook for optimal real-life behavior.

As opposed to dramas about highschool girls having affairs, you should learn everything about life from them :P

Or maybe not even then.

One of the characteristics of comedy manga series like this one is the piling up of one premise after another, some more plausible than others, until, if we were to actually stop and think about it, the whole thing becomes a completely preposterous house of cards teetering on the edge of madness.

But as manga readers we are accustomed to swallow each marginally possible premise in turn and so end up discussing the ethics of specific situations like “How would you feel if you came home and found your cram-school-teacher/lesbian-sex-worker partner demonstrating her pubic-hair grooming techniques to a young fellow student who aspires to the technical knowledge of a professional lesbian sex worker?”

Never stopping to think, “Wait, does Japan even have dedicated lesbian brothels/escort services? Does anywhere?”

I think it's a good general principle that the actions depicted in comedy manga should not be taken as a guidebook for optimal real-life behavior.

“I assumed that the pink-haired girl was like me.” Um, no, asshole, not like you at all.