Forum › Posts by Sol Falling
I particularly loved this because of the intro, and how it is actually kinda sorta almost-but-not-really verifiably based on Japanese anthropology. It's kinda like (or rather, I pretty much assume it is) the private fantasy of the author, generated by taking the starting point of Japan's legends and mythology (about Oni), traced back realistically into recorded human history, and then from there converted back into fantasy.
I don't think the yuri portion itself was poorly executed in any way, either. Basically, what it comes down to: I'm cheering this author on and hope they can turn this into a nice and long series.
The comments on that ANN article seem to be unusually (er? At least, I hope so) daft. The SonoHana series is still going strong, and the products announced by Mikajyo (short for Sei Michael Joshi Gakuen i.e. St. Michael Girls' School) are indeed part of it.
Basically, in terms of the status of the SonoHana series:
- It started as an experiment by the doujin circle Fuguriya, which released the first 9 games
- After the success of the series was established, the creators formed the official brand Yurin Yurin (under the commercial company Carnival), through which they released 6 games
- At present, Yurin Yurin appears to have been set aside to establish the new brand (under the same company) St. Michael Girls' School, whose website and twitter account opened this past Wednesday and who currently have two games announced.
Of the two new games announced, one of them is indeed set to focus on a new cast of characters (3 couples unrelated to the existing SonoHana couples), called "New Generation", but the other is backstory for one of the existing pairs from the Yurin Yurin releases. Both are Sonohana games, with existing staff from the past releases.
As for the schlock posted in the ANN forums about the final milestone (construction of an actual, physical St. Michaels Girls' School, in exchange for becoming the most popular/followed account on the entirety of Twitter) being some sort of symbolic/spiritual development, that's just dumb. On the one hand it is obviously a joke offer, but on the other I think they might very well be able to afford construction of a physical academy if they managed to become the number one account on all of Twitter.
It's linked at the end all their tweets, but check out this http://mikajyo.pink/ page for all their other milestones. Seems like the followers are rising so fast they're actually a bit behind.
Aside from the wallpapers and illustrations already available. For the 1500 milestone, they announced an original voice sample/collection/*something* called "Yuri no Susume", and for the 5000 milestone, an original clock application. Pretty neat, lol.
lol. Funny thing is, they only had ~1000 as of the time I signed up yesterday night (the fact that I barely look at my twitter account might be cheating).
I find it highly likely this was a joke proposal not meant to be taken seriously (otherwise, I hope the western fans who sign up take responsibility and import the OVA, :P). Nonetheless, it would be neat if the response they get is in fact non-trivial. Doubling their followers already isn't bad.
Here is what she says about her partner:
It was interesting so I shamelessly gave it a read, lol. I guess I'll give a summary.
^ There are three posts about Takemiya's partner from that page, from the bottom up:
Jin gets asked about her "partner" sometimes so she'll explain.
Her partner is an artist who at present time back in 2011 was aiming for her shounen manga debut (under the name 堀井貴介).
She's the same sex as Takemiya.
Jin get's asked about their relationship often.
They were friends back in vocational school. Their results/grades were around the same level, but Takemiya would say her partner is the brighter one.
After graduating from vocational school, the partner went back to her parents' home while Jin started living by herself in Osaka. Apparently it was pretty tough back then.
Afterwards, when Jin heard that 'partner' had stopped wanting to draw manga after returning to her parents home, she thought "that's not good", because Jin had liked that person's manga ever since those times.
Afterwards, various things happened and they started living together; drawing manga while working part-time, continuing with a life of helping each other out.
There was a time when Takemiya's body was wrecked to the point that she was mostly confined to bed. Half of her body was numb and in pain to the point where she seriously thought about suicide. The person who supported her at that time was that 'partner'.
At that time, Jin really thought that "If I can't draw manga, it'd be better if I died"...
Jin had already gotten better since however many years/months ago, is healthy and walking, so she said please don't worry <3. Although there were some aftereffects/residual discomfort in her left foot, she's become used to it.
From those things and after, her 'partner' became Jin's most important person, however...that's different from a romantic relationship.
Occasionally, Jin get's asked "Is 'partner' your lover?" and she thinks, "what is a lover?".
There's no lover-'like' stuff such as flirting or saying "I like you" between them.
They have arguments normally, and get along normally too.
Jin would put it in a way close to "close friends + family / 2", though she can't quite find the words.
In the sense that although lovers are people one might part with, family ties remain even if relations go bad.
Although without bodily relations, Jin and her partner are somehow always together, and probably will be into the future. They are "partners in life".
Although Jin thinks of her partner as her "life's benefactor" (basically, someone she owes her life to), she's been told that 'partner' feels the same.
For either of them, if the other came to no longer be there, they might very well die. (≡∀≡)
Although Jin wrote the previous ↑ post/posts about her and her partner's relationship she wanted to go over it one more time.
Basically, it's not one of girlfriend/lover/boyfriend/husband/etc. Though they are often mistaken for it it's incorrect. Simply, they get along ridiculously well. That's why they often get mistaken.
It is not that they especially care about it （ ´_ゝ
）´_ゝ） because them getting along well is reality.
In this world, the degree of people who'd say "outside of family, relations of people who 'get along well' besides 'friends' and 'lovers' are impossible" might be as many as those who'd say "In sex/gender, there are only 'female' and 'male'."
In the same way that in the world there are various genders, there are variously many 'relations'. Takemiya and her partner are neither family nor friends nor lovers. 'Partner' is simply, her partner. (´∀｀)
last edited at Oct 30, 2014 8:58AM
Aside from 'Basics of Stealth', which was kind of weak, I really love this mangaka's works. The introspective voice really draws you in, for one thing, but I think it's the art which really makes it shine: the charming touches or subtle details, even when not fully polished like a lot of Nishikino's faces in this one, have a really heartwarming/occasionally beautiful effect.
I see people complaining about getting tired of schoolgirl yuri all the time, but I think this is one author who does it well.
The new "00" chapter was interesting, but it has a summary at the beginning, maybe calling it a "3.5" chapter would be better since the summary has spoilers?
Want to echo this suggestion from http://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/3437-philosophia-discussion?page=5 because it's mentioned within the chapter that it was meant to be released along with chapter 4. Although chronologically the events depicted are 'Chapter 0', in terms of reading order I think it should definitely come after 3.
last edited at Oct 22, 2014 10:59PM
An exaggerated story about the shittiness of people culminating in a revenge fantasy. In such terms, perhaps the content could be said to be slightly objectionable but I enjoyed this story anyway.
In some passing moment in the lifetime of the universe, one person was made to ship Sanae x Mayu for a couple minutes, and moved by the impossibility of their being joined. For that, at least, this doujin has my thanks. Good shit.
I dunno about you guys but it looks like Takayanagi won to me? http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/sakana_no_miru_yume_ch12#8
Takayanagi's crush on Mikage was the cutest thing ever though so I'm pretty happy with this end. I don't really care if Tomoe and Mikage's relationship is ambiguous or if they end up going the incest route later on, so long as Mikage doesn't reject Takayanagi's feelings I would call it a good end.
Incidentally the story is not that hard to understand; like the author said Tomoe and Mikage's relationship was about confronting their real selves and (re)constructing a broken family from scratch. Maybe not the standard "and then they got together and fucked" conclusion yuri fans are always looking for but it was a worthwhile enough story for me.
Thing is I'm pretty doubtful Mikage still even needs or wants a sexual relationship with Tomoe at all. The crux of this story's conflict was that on account of their pasts with their father, Tomoe had dedicated her life to protecting Mikage and placed her at the center of her life in order to (psychologically) protect her own self. Mikage's efforts to break out of the tidy role Tomoe had constructed for her (by sexualizing herself) ultimately came from the fact that Tomoe wasn't really looking at her. When Takayanagi's confession made Mikage realize that she was pushing her feelings onto Tomoe, she realized that what they both really needed was to confront each other's real feelings and accept each other, which they did. Now that Tomoe and Mikage have constructed a proper relationship, I'm not sure a sexual component between them is even still necessary so perhaps Mikage has in fact accepted Takayanagi as her partner in the romantic component of her life.
last edited at Oct 18, 2014 9:06PM
Precure seasons are basically about teams of girls ranging in size from 2-6 (later seasons have pretty consistently settled into a range of 4-5). The "main-est" Cure every season generally is the Pink. In the case of Smile Precure/this doujin, that would be Miyuki.
Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de aru
Saviour of the season has aired. A double-episode special too, what a treat. Thank you Studio Gokumi.
Spoilered impressions 'cause people should definitely watch the first episode first:
I was hyped in the first place, so obviously I thought it was great. As an original work, though, I'm hoping that the series manages to toe the line of realistic tension/struggle like Madoka did without going overboard with the darkness like some of its imitators. At this point I feel like character death would be just for the shock value (the main cast are actually all, hooray, sympathetic and likeable characters; frankly I prefer it that way), so I'd lose a lot of respect for the show if it actually went that route; however, I do hope it manages to keep the tension up in some other manner. Will definitely be interesting to see how the story progresses.
Incidentally I'm still also waiting on the start of the second cours of Mushishi S2, which also promises to be awesome, but yeah I feel like the season has finally started.
last edited at Oct 17, 2014 5:52AM
e.g. If Nao and Reika love each other in terms of subtext it is a bastardization of their characters to say they would abandon that love and have sex with someone else. Because if they would abandon said feelings it would mean they are shallow and cheap.
There's the issue. There's no evidence of Nao or Reika being in romantic love.
(Also, it's not in fact a stretch to treat Akane's one-off attraction to Brian as something shallow and cheap.)
^ I guess I was slow on my edit. My point was that making subtext explicit itself is a divergence from canon. If you're embracing any fan activity at all, particularly in a show with weak subtext like Precure, it's hypocrisy to preach about 'bastardizing the characters'.
Here's the promised last post.
We're not talking about it's popularity. We are talking about it's creditably in the show. Why do you keep shifting topics.
The question I was addressing with Jwalop was "Is Akane good for yuri". Answer: yes. By the will of thousands of yuri fans.
And by your own logic you are saying NaoRei is better then AkaNao. Just thought I'd let you know that.
NaoRei is more popular than AkaNao, that basically means more yuri fans will claim to like it. I'm gonna go on record and say that if anybody picked up Smile Precure for NaoRei instead of reading doujins though they probably wouldn't be very satisfied, though. IMO, they'd probably be slightly more satisfied if they were fans of AkaNao.
No, because you can just find it subbed yourself with simple searching. It's not the same as just handing someone a book.
If you could actually do that, why didn't you help us all out and post a link in the first place. Not that it actually matters, I too think a subbed video would speak for itself (that Nao and Reika are just friends).
You are far too hung up on your subjective reasoning. This has no place in what we are talking about. "dashingly dressed up as a Prince" So you think that all kids who did the play Romeo and Juliet are romantically attracted to each other? Because that's all that's happening in that scene.
The Smile girls weren't dressed up for a play, they were sucked into an actual fairytale. What Yayoi and Miyuki's reactions demonstrated was that it's likely that they genuinely find Reika attractive (sexually/romantically). Not that there was ever much reason to conclude otherwise, considering their established characters, but there's really nothing remotely equivalent for Nao (or incidentally, from Reika towards Nao).
Explicit heterosexual attraction. Not even implied yuri attraction. That's what I'm saying.
Regardless of her hetero attraction, Akane's relationship with Brian was so shallow as to be barely worth mentioning for shipping purposes. Meanwhile, out of all Smile's cast of characters, aside from maaaybe Miyuki, the character who's relationship with Akane was most highlighted was Nao. Nissan Combi is pretty much de facto the most popular Akane ship. You seem to be implying here that you don't think Akane x Nao is a legit ship, but it's probably the second largest ship in Smile's entire yuri fandom. Regardless of your feelings on NaoRei, I hope you aren't stupid enough to have gone to any AkaNao threads/gatherings of fandom and called them 'crack'.
That's because you won't admit anyone other than yourself is right. Those moments do have meaning, and many people see it. I'm not making it up. Why do you think NaoRei is popular.
I traced the genealogy of NaoRei's popularity in my first post in this thread. Here's a more explicit version though:
- Fanbase coming off a pretty yuri Precure season in Suite with HibiKana, in particular doujin artists
- Introduction of Smile with similar team structure to Yes 5!, in particular the blue and green being last to be introduced and childhood friends. People start shipping them before they even really turn up.
- Smile turns out to have much less opening subtext/fixed pairings than Suite, yuri fans basically working off of delusions and background material
- Doujin artists buy into NaoRei, start putting stuff out, including certain popular artists here in the western fandom
- We go half a season until any substantial/actually interesting subtext starts showing up, explicit subtext between characters still rather rare
- By that point NaoRei is too engrained
- NaoRei doesn't even really end up with any good subtext, we finish off the season with better subtext for other pairings and little real grounding for NaoRei at all.
The fact that Smile wasn't filled with hetshit like HaCha this season is what saved it for the yuri fanbase. However, the subtext itself, and the yuri fanbase's response to it, really went off the rails, and was pretty much built by the fanartists. The best thing NaoRei had going for it was that the animators put in a little Easter egg and tried to put them on screen together at 8:40 AM, Japan time, every episode. But apparently the writers didn't get the memo, because that was pretty much it, with their actual relationship hardly ever being highlighted by the story or dialogue. In the end, it's kinda like how people didn't realize that the best pairing from HeartCatch was Yuri x Momoka until years after the season was over -- getting caught up in weak possibilities for ships early on, and missing the overall picture of where substance actually showed up.
Because having sex with someone you have feelings for isn't wrong. How is them having sex a "bastardization"? Depending on the example though, I might agree. And I'm sure even you'll agree that het gang rape of the precures is a bastardization of their characters. Now you just need to see it applies to other things as well.
Het rape doujins are basically fantasies made by people utilizing the designs of the Precure characters. I'm sure you'll agree that, if you consider the creative intentions of the people behind Precure, yuri sex doujins amount to that as well. Call the doujin activities of various fandoms (which by nature are not leashed by the desires of 'official' creators) a bastardization if you want; ultimately, I'm happier that they do exist than not at all.
I can point out the wrong someone is doing without being worked up about it. I don't think you're mad right now, are you? You're trying to do the same thing I am. Correct someone. Only I have the benefit of being right.
You're basically passing undue negative judgement on lots of things that don't actually call for it -- even if you don't think you're worked up now I'd hate to live with that perspective. When it comes down to "have some interesting yuri while appreciating artistic freedom and the variety in humanity's modes of expression" versus "restrict myself to some strict definition of canon, when I'm ultimately just a fallible person working with subjective interpretations myself", I'd choose the former every time.
And there is a difference between -made to be trashy- and -making something else trashy-. If the characters start as bastards you can't bastardize them. But if they don't start a such, you can do it to them. The act of making something trashy that originally wasn't is what's wrong.
I think you're really putting too much stock in a children's show which can't afford to display explicit yuri, much less is guaranteed that the creators are always interested in even doing so (as the current season demonstrates). Smile manages to be a great show because it's endearingly silly and fun, but is only yuri friendly by largely a lack of any explicit sexuality at all. There are shows where yuri plays a central part in the themes and story of the characters, and there are shows which are conducive to yuri, but where it only pops up by coincidence occasionally on the side. As a yuri fan, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the opportunity to enjoy the latter, but it's a fact that doing so naturally involves some degree of divergence from the creators' intentions.
last edited at Oct 17, 2014 1:34AM
So rather than actually talk about how stupid it was to say that fanart is objective you talk about how you don't like the fact fujos are infact low tier. If you don't see anything wrong with shipping straight people in gay ships then there is something really wrong.
Fanart is a relatively objective measure of shipping popularity. The fact that more people ship Nissan Combi than Akane x Brian is an objective measure of which is the better ship, more objective than your complaints "It's not canon! /whine".
You can't claim all interaction are romantic in nature. You holding some stupid double standard where you think all AkaNao moments are romantic and none of the NaoRei ones are. The real point here being just because you want to take them as romantic doesn't mean they are. We know how she Akane acts when she's in love, and she's not going to act drastically different with someone else. It may be different, but not drastically.
Neither AkaNao nor NaoRei's 'moments' are romantic. AkaNao simply have better chemistry (subjective), that's why it's the better ship.
(Conversely, in the Cinderella episode, MiyuRei and YayoRei's moments actually might be.)
Yeah, it's just bastardizing the characters characters and all of their interpersonal relationships to the point where you treat them like hollow shells meant only to be warped to your shipping whims.
Nothing too bad.
^ This is the point where you've gotten too worked up about fiction, lol. Tons of anime actually are made as just trashy entertainment, what's wrong with being entertained?
There's a really big difference between what we did. I cited pages of a book while you cited the whole book. It's kind of like a four year old saying "I know the answer, but I'm not telling you~~~~".
lol. No, from the perspective of non-Japanese speakers who hadn't watched the series, what you actually did was cite the pages of a book in a language they couldn't read.
But the shipping in Smile Precure is subjective in the first place
Until you can specify logically and objectively why NaoRei's moments are 'more defining'
No it's not. And I did. I even gave examples you just keep saying they don't count. But you seem kind of bigoted.
In the by now frequently mentioned Cinderella episode, ep. 39, Miyuki and Yayoi reacted favourably to Reika dashingly dressed up as a Prince -- Miyuki on account of her favourite thing being fairytale fantasies, Yayoi on account of being just that gay (a fangirl for all things awesome). I'd argue that these two moments are far more romantically defining than anything you can bring up for NaoRei. That's subjectivity for you. (Or maybe objectivity? I'm quite sure most people would agree.)
You didn't really answer my point. Leaving aside how you're just trivializing the moment so you can try and pretend to be right, why have that scene with NaoRei if AkaNao have a much closer relationship and is more likely to happen?
Because Precure is primarily a kid's show and every moment doesn't have to be yuri subtext? lol. What the fuck are you even trying to say?
Good, that's why I gave a bunch of other examples.
Let's see... Reactive emotional moments? Check. Incidental screentime together? Check. Other examples? ...Nope, can't find even one.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
If you're so against bastardizing characters, why don't you go shit up the thread for every doujin where Nao and Reika actually have sex.
I think I'll cut things off with maybe one last post, at this point there's not much more to be meaningfully said.
You're doing a very bad job at proving me wrong then. See as how you can't even best me in the most basic knowledge about debate. You also just did something really dumb. You basically said "here's a textbook, go prove how canon relativity is". You're not giving information, you're just giving "book".
I don't think you understand how real debate works, and you're just trying to nitpick anything you can.
I gave you information, if you can't interpret that information it's your prerogative.
But they don't. No less then any other pair. But their moments are more defining. I guess you think you're smart then the thousands and thousands of other people who saw the NoeRei relationship and acknowledged it. You're just biased against childhood friends apparently.
Haha. To be honest, I do actually think I have better taste than anybody who ships NaoRei. But the shipping in Smile Precure is subjective in the first place, that's the actual point. Until you can specify logically and objectively why NaoRei's moments are 'more defining', and how that in turn makes other pairings illegitimate enough to be 'crack ships', you are full of shit.
Combo attacks and emotional moments together are not even close to the same thing. You're just proving that you're one of those people who can't tell the difference between any type of interaction and think that everything is "shipping moments". That's why the hug is "worth" more than the combo attack. And for the just to point it out. NeoRei has a combo attack and a lot of emotional moments.
As romantic subtext, they have just about the same value. "Oh man, I hugged someone close to me (a childhood friend, even!) when I thought someone died." So romantic, right? :P
The actual baseline for subtext to start having any legitimacy is when it's actually about how the characters feel towards each other. Reactive 'emotional moments' and incidental screentime together do not an real ship make.
last edited at Oct 16, 2014 8:39PM
That means the same thing. "You like how their interactions look". You know, because you are the one viewing the interactions.
This is a really dumb example of equivocation, and I'm starting to question your argumentative skills. Interactions refer to how the characters react to each other. Looks refers to how the characters aesthetically appear. They actually do constitute differing reasons for being attracted to a fictional couple.
No, fanart objective. I have no idea why you think this. People will always ship straight girls, just like fujo's will always ship straights males. The real question you need to ask yourself is do you want to be in the same category as fujos?
Good job reflecting the environment you come from/your pigheaded prejudices, lol. There is nothing actually wrong with fujos, just like there is nothing actually wrong with doujinshi. If you're one of those uptight types who can't handle anything remotely 'non-canon' you shouldn't be reading doujinshi at all.
I see you're completely missing the point. Thought I made it clear. For someone who's trying to use interactions as proof of something you sure seem to like ignoring the ones that are inconvenient for you. The point is we see how Akane interacts with someone she's romantically attracted to, and it's not how she acts with Nao. Each new romance does not mean you act like a new person with each one. She'll still have similar actions with other love interests that are not Brain.
What you're basically saying is that there's only one way a person ever falls in love. False. It might not come about from conscious pursuit by Akane, but there's nothing actually saying AkaNao can't happen.
last edited at Oct 16, 2014 8:36PM