Forum › Posts by Wiwaxia

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021
99201053_p9

They put fucking HOOVER in Fate now???

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Yeahh I can see why people might dislike Manaria as a character, but she's hot, so who can say if she's bad or not

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Without even searching for it, I've come across four instances of characters being locked in a room until they kiss/have sex. Does anyone else know if there are more examples because there seems to be potential for a new tag. I don't know what it would be called, though.
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~しないと出られない部屋 is a pretty common trope, especially for oneshots/bonuses, and I thought about suggesting an Escape Room tag before but couldn't dig up enough examples. Here's another - I think in this case the title stems from the translators being unfamiliar with the concept & breaking the sentence at the と conditional rather than realizing it's all a relative clause describing the yuri in the same way it usually describes the room (which is omitted since the reader is assumed to be aware of the scenario), so it's more like "Can't Escape Without Having Sex" Yuri.

edit: And another, which I'm surprised I forgot about.

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Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

This went almost exactly as I hoped it would. May Nanao’s misunderstandings only grow deeper.

Rita just mocking Asumi when she clearly told her to stop multiple times kinda put me off the sex scene tho.

Same, on both counts. I'm just gonna tell myself Asumi and Rita set up a safeword offscreen, for peace of mind.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Could you elaborate on how it's "fundamentally" transphobic? I can understand how it could very easily slip into that sort of territory, but there does seem to be a distinction between lying about your sex/gender and not providing info that you're not obliged to provide, such as what genitals you have.

Sure. The biggest narrative of transphobia is the idea that somebody's own gender, or how they talk about or express their gender, is somehow a violation of the people around them. This is used to justify controlling people's gender and gender expression, or punishing them for falling outside of accepted gender norms. This idea of gender nonconformity being a violation of how you should treat the people around you is often (although not exclusively) framed in terms of deception - i.e. a violation of trust and/or ability to give informed consent. This puts trans people in a double-bind: if you are out about being trans, you are accused of deceiving people by being a different gender than the one they think you "should" have, whereas if you're closeted, you are accused of deceiving people by not telling them your real gender. Either way, the accusation of "tricking people about what gender you 'really' are" functions to, again, justify control and/or punishment while obscuring the actual power dynamic. Someone point-blank lying about their gender does not give them power over another person in the same way that accusing someone of lying about their gender does. In the most extreme form, the person being subjected to gendered control and punishment is portrayed as the perpetrator, while the person actually enacting this transphobic abuse portrays themselves as the victim.

With that said, let's look at the narrative that is getting pulled out in the comments section here - the implication that Mitsuki is somehow doing wrong by Aya by letting Aya continue to believe she's a boy, and thus that she "needs" to tell Aya her real gender or else she is victimizing her. To quote:

Tricking someone pretending you're the gender you're not is uncool at best and downright nasty at worst. [...] But in any minimally realistic setting this treachery will hurt the victim horribly and bring only heartbreak and bitterness.

That's a) an accusation of gender deception while b) portraying the hypothetical person confused by gender ambiguity as a "victim", used to c) try to control how people present/talk about their genders (i.e. if you are androgynous you have to tell people your gender explicitly if they get the wrong idea). Again, don't know if it's intended as such, but that's the structure of the argument.

elevown brings up the fact that Mitsuki is not, in the story, trans, and says basically that hiding your gender is okay if you're trans and closeted but not okay otherwise. However, that just kicks the can down the road to the question of who is "really" trans. Someone trying to figure out if you're trans enough to be "allowed" to hide your gender is itself violating, and anyone who is judged to not be trans enough will be subject to aforementioned control and punishment of their gender expression anyway. (And while I'm primarily concerned for trans people, who are the most vulnerable to this kind of rhetoric, cis people deserve to not be controlled or punished for how they express/talk about their genders either.) Nobody gets to be appointed judge and jury of who has enough of a "reason" to hide their gender. The only principled position is to entirely reject the idea that letting someone have the wrong idea about your gender is somehow doing wrong by them. If they do have the wrong idea about your gender, that's a them problem unless and until you choose to correct them, it doesn't imply that you need to change how you present or what you do or do not say about your gender.


That's the fundamental level but also, on a practical level, no, there is not a distinction between lying about your sex/gender and simply not providing info that you're not obligated to provide. Cis society does not let you get away with just not providing info. It is basically impossible to successfully remain closeted (or stealth) without sometimes saying something directly untrue about your sex/gender - avoiding the question will itself make people clock you as some degree of gender-nonconforming, and will often get framed as attempted deceit anyways.

edit. My contention is basically that it's transphobic regardless of what OP considers to be "tricking someone" and "pretending you're the gender you're not", because of the way it plays into this real-world dynamic of accusing someone of being deceptive about their gender to control how they express or talk about it.

last edited at May 23, 2022 4:06AM

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

@ Wiwaxia Their take wasnt transphonic at ALL. They were NOT saying she was fooling gyaru-chan by dressing the way she does or looking fairly masculine- that has zero baring.

The issue they were raising is AFTER gyaur makes this mistake- (to nobodies fault) - she should then have let her know she isnt a boy like she thinks. I also agree that its not gone on long enough yet to matter. They have barely interacted since then- but she does need to explain it soon.

You also cant compare it to a closet trans- because she is NOT. She has no particular reason to hide her gender at all beyond a bit of embaressment about being seen as lame or something.

No, "you need to explain your real gender to someone who made a mistaken assumption and if you don't it's deception" is still a transphobic take.

The issue is the narrative about "gender deception", which is fundamentally transphobic whether or not any given fictional or real person has a "reason" to hide their gender. (As if fear of homophobia wouldn't be reason enough! Even in this scenario where the mc isn't trans, the stakes are still potentially much higher than "being seen as lame". Come on.)

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Tricking someone pretending you're the gender you're not is uncool at best and downright nasty at worst. In a romantic fantasy where a happy end is the iron-set goal, the fooled one, after the reveal, will always decide they don't care about gender anymore because love is more important. But in any minimally realistic setting this treachery will hurt the victim horribly and bring only heartbreak and bitterness.

Yyyyyyyyeah this is an implicitly transphobic take. I doubt you intended it that way, but the transphobia is inherent to the argument, as becomes clear very quickly if you apply it to a closeted trans person (or look at the way transphobia frames trans people's genders as being "deceptive" in general). Please take a moment to reconsider it.

Yes, romance plotlines based on deception are dodgy, but messing around with your gender presentation is not deception or "tricking someone" or "treachery" (!), full stop. Even if you're cis. People do not actually have an inherent right to know your gender. Even if someone asks you point-blank what gender you are, you are under no obligation to give them an honest answer, that shit is private if you want it to be. Framing that as deception leads to attitudes that put trans people in real-world danger ("trans panic defense", etc.).

If someone falls in love with somebody assuming that they're one gender and then it turns out that they're not that gender and that's a dealbreaker and they get their heart broken, then that sucks for everyone involved, but at no point was anyone "tricked".

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

This would have had such an effect on me had I read it in middle school. I hope it finds the weird, edgy kids it was meant for.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

So she tried to hich both her cousin and Elsa together and ended up giving a wingman that will help Elsa get Evie.... When you plan something then results in something completely different

Task failed successfully.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

For fucks sake, I really hate this "dense protagonist" crap.
She goes out of her way to be close to you and spend time with you, so that must mean she TOTALLY needs a boyfriend...
Maybe I missed something, but this is really beginning to piss me off.

There is no route in the original to shack up with the villainess, and Yvonne knows that. A lot of the story is her being constrained by the game to hurt Elsa— why would she think that Elsa was freer than she was?

Obviously as the readers we know but Yvonne’s denseness at least has plot behind it even if many stories with the same density level don’t.

Yeah I don't think it's a matter of Yvonne being dense at all at this point. She clearly knows Elsa is into her, and she seems to have some awareness on some level that she's got feelings for Elsa too, but is not letting herself acknowledge or think about that. She thinks (not completely without reason) that the only thing she can do is hurt Elsa, so she's trying to set Elsa up with someone else so at least Elsa will be happy, and she's avoiding thinking about herself as a possible romantic partner for Elsa so as to not make that harder than it already is. Denial, not obliviousness.

I mean the past few chapters have basically shown us Yvonne starting to forget about the "must find Elsa a love interest" thing (she even comments on how she's gone from trying to trigger romance flags for Elsa to avoiding them) and letting herself enjoy romantic moments with Elsa. She only goes back to trying to pair Elsa off in this chapter because the villainess system made her do something legitimately awful and she's now convinced she needs to get Elsa away from herself for Elsa's own good. I think it's pretty clear that Yvonne wouldn't be thinking about getting Elsa a love interest if that hadn't happened. She's gone back on the growth she had in her relationship with Elsa and regressed to old patterns because something happened that convinced her that that growth couldn't last.

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

The first half of this story really feels like it benefited from having, essentially, a rough draft in the form of Todo no Tsumari no Uchouten. I think the drop-off in quality in the last few chapters is because it's trying to go in new directions and no longer has the benefit of that previous draft. Another draft and it would have been perfect.

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

I'm sorry, Appalachia???

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Oooog, that was a rough read. Had plenty of experience myself with "superficially accepting right up until they Aren't" types like Miki and the teacher.

I felt a bit sick when Makoto described it as an illness, I am not 100% sure why but I am uncomfortable with people who are just different from neurotypical, being described as ill or disabled, even in cases where there is a disability/disorder, I just don't know about calling them as ill, that says that something is wrong with them does it not? That there's something that needs fixing.

I don't think that's reflective of the author's perspective or Makoto's, and I think it's supposed to be a bit sickening. The teacher swapped out Makoto's self-affirming speech for a pathologizing one that fit with his limited understanding, because he thought that would be more "comprehensible" (which both hurt Makoto to read and hurt Yuuko to hear Makoto read it, and ensured that none of the other students got a genuine understanding of the complexity of gender).

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

And the penny finally drops.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Interesting how absolutely, lethally, literal both Satsuki and Komachi are in this chapter.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Oho, this looks intriguing. Love the Rayearth vibes of the one aerial shot of the other world.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

*I'm talking about the non-April Fool's chapter here:

so, we get a mystery right off the bat: Alice. Well, I'm pretty sure we won't find out for a good while so let's ignore that for now!

Also lol these two really did just:
confessing ❌
dating ❌
marrying ❌
living and adopting a child together ✅

The Nanofate route

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021
Bignyongnyong-1508240120553820163-img1

Good upload batch for Okina rarepairs, between this and the Okina/Jo'on one.

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021
K0nfette-1503178372553527296-img1

^ Just some good old-fashioned enemies to reluctant partners to lovers.

Wiwaxia
Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Nice verbal keysmashing from Nanoha on page 14, in the grand tradition of flustered gays everywhere.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

JFC Satsuki. That's certainly one way to try to get someone out of the path of a moving car.

The bonus chapter that was just uploaded is great too. Akira's methods of getting someone to avoid school so they don't die are maybe a little more effective than Satsuki's.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

Fate really does not do things by halves, god damn. That is the most over-the-top romantic way of passing notes I've ever seen.

Wiwaxia-sketch
joined Nov 9, 2021

So, these are real people with real names, but they just happen to live in a weird dorm.
I like where this is going.
I wonder if we will have 12 or 13 girls at the end.

13? Angling for an Ophiuchus girl?