^(Poor Fergus)

^Ya know guys can do that too... right?

@BugDevil While I agree that the people who care enough will probably read the manga anyway, it's still frustrating that more and more anime are doomed to cover only a fraction of the original story… Anime and manga are different formats that offer different experiences, so people who enjoy anime more get the short end of the stick in those cases… Of course that's kind of inevitable when the original story is so long that you'd need 10 seasons of anime to adapt it fully, but in the case of YagaKimi where two seasons would probably suffice (after the manga is over, obviously), that would be a shame. Hopefully it has enough success for that.

But as you said, altering the story to have a conclusion rarely leads to good results, so it's a tough dilemma…

You are right of course. It's not like I want it to end prematurely. This conversation is entirely based on the idea that there won't be a season 2. If there is, no problems would exist. So I really hope for that too!

I'm setting aside the rest of this because what changes should or shouldn't be made and why is just a matter of preference and opinion and I can agree to disagree on all of that.

Oh how gracious of you.

You're either gonna have to cite sources on that 7/10 thing or admit you just pulled it straight out of your ass.

A typical 13 episode anime series costs from 1 to 4 million dollars. I base this on numerous comments I've seen from several creators, but here's a specific link to a specific quote saying 2 million is typical. Longer seasons are more expensive, i picked the 1-4 range because that's what Yagakimi almost certainly cost.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-08-13/anime-insiders-share-how-much-producing-a-season-costs/.91536

Hell, just pay attention to the freaking credits of any anime series! You'll have dozens if not hundreds of people credited with the production, from animators and editors to composers and voice actors. These people work for salary or on contract, depending on the job, and an anime studio like Troyca produces at max of two series a year, meaning at least half their salary comes from a single series. Do the math. They'll cut corners where they can, but anime is still a large cooperative venture involving many employees. The amount of labor involved in producing even a low budget anime is nuts.

The 13 episode format has been standard in anime for years, and has often been used even in circumstances when there /was no manga/. It has nothing to do with "advertising the manga and gaining a larger audience for it", it's about limiting the exposure and expense and reducing the risk on titles that might not find a solid audience. 13 episodes is a smaller commitment than 26+, and is one of the options pursued by companies when they want to see if a product can fly. Smaller commitment means less expense which means less risk.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-09-26/.106891

Here's a pretty decent summary of how it came about, also discussing the process.

Manga publishers do not -hire- anime studios to produce anime as commercials. That is -laughable-. Anime studios approach manga publishers about properties they think would fill a niche in their programming. What's more, the studio fronts all the money of production and -pays- the manga company for the licensing rights. Every time. I challenge you to find one instance of an anime that was commissioned by the manga publisher. Find me one source. I'll wait.

It was just a rough estimate based on how many properties are advertisement, mostly for game, Light Novel and manga based anime. There are obviously cases of the studio approaching the publisher or original anime being made or some director who wants to revive an old franchise (Thank you David Pro for doing Jojo justice!). I wasn't actually basing it on any real numbers.

"Typical" is a pretty loose term, you know? Most anime productions are as cheap as possible. If you throw in all the high quality properties, no wonder you will end up at that 4 million average. We aren't talking about Attack on Titan levels of porudction value here (because the budget for those episodes makes my legs go weak).
I haven't even implied once that YagaKimi was cheaply made though. So don't put words into my mouth please.

No shit the 12-13 episode method is there to cut costs and play it safe. I didn't mean it was invented for advertising purposes, I meant that it's used for that a lot. Making one short season of a popular property to see if it's profitable is standard practice. The initiators are often not the studios though. I think we are fundamentally thinking of different things when using the word "hire". I didn't mean the publisher pays for the entire endeavor or something, I meant the publisher chooses the studio and makes the offer. Scouts work in both directions.

It's so common for publishers of games, LNs and manga to approach studios as its beneficial for both sides, but I am not even gonna bother. The anime works as an advertisment for the manga (whether that is the only reason or not to you) and that's pretty much a fact. This is way too much work for such a trite point. You already ignored almost everything I said, so my motivation is on the down low to actually work myself through all the production history research.

" They exist as promotion for the manga, nothing else." That's your words, exactly. If they want to profit on their own, then they aren't just promotion for the manga.

Producers choose manga or light novels based on their popularity because a popular series brings with it an automatic audience. Publishers do not choose anime producers, it's literally the other way around. When you said that remarkable 7/10 line earlier, it actually made me question my understanding, so I looked around, and just no. Every source I found confirms this is how it works. The production company decides what they want to make, then goes about trying to convince the manga publisher and the author to sign on and license the rights to them.

That depends on the author and the publisher. The more established a person's name, the more pull they have because the producers know that the author has clout with the fans. Also authors are more likely to retain the copyright on their work and characters compared to western comics. Authors usually agree every time because being chosen to have an anime made of your series is a huge honor and a big financial opportunity. They absolutely have a say, however, if they piss off their publisher, they could find themselves without one. But that isn't the point.

The point is the producers pick the series they want to adapt (or the original pitches they want to produce) and they approach the author through the publisher. In a lot of cases, these companies have existing relationships, either through past business dealings or through corperate connections. The details get complicated and case-by case, but in any event, the producers always intend to make their money back on the anime. The sales boost to the manga is a benefit to the manga publisher and the author, but isn't generally the concern of the anime producers (except in that it motivates them to agree to the deal)

Welp, I guess you missed the part where I said for the manga... as in the manga publisher uses it as an advertisment and nothing else. That the studio who makes it isn't doing it out of the goodness of their heart, but to make profit is plainly obvious...

Mangaka have very little influence on what's done with their work, don't kid yourself. The only ones who could have that kind of sway are titans like Eiichiro Oda or Masashi Kishimoto (or self-published people like Araki). Heck, Tite Kubo who was for a time one of the Big 3 Mangaka was completely screwed over and kicked down by his publisher and everyone involved. I wonder where he had any say in anything there?
Having an anime of your series done badly is not much of an honor and equals throwing away your integrity for money. And mangaka have to do that, because they don't earn much in the first place. This honor stuff annoys me, considering the conditions they are living in... they realistically just don't have the option to refuse.

PS: We are really far away from the actual topic now and the mods are gonna jump on us soon, so let's try to focus on YagaKimi here, shall we?

^Well some artists might think so. The game and myth don't.
Yeah Marie is a secret top.

YES. This artist gets how cat-girls should work. The ears look like a real part of the body. Purrfect.

Seriously why are there so many genderswapped versions of Joker running around in the yuri community recently?

Whatever could it mean? Looks like a metal sign or something~

Yuu, you know she is hopeless, so just wipe the ice-cream off yourself (with your tongue).

I am glad that Nadeshiko picked up on it right away. Usually you'd expect a dense reaction.
You think Rin's set-up was in-tent-ional? Or was she just winging it?

Does this classify as needy or greedy?

Back hugs are the sweetest.

Cant see what happens below those oversized meat bags. Genius.

Considering Nemo is the center I feel like we are missing a tag.

This was smooookin' hot

Pretending not to hear is pretty cruel lol

The struggles of a harem protagonist are crystallized here (I know she isn't one, but damn)

Now we're cooking. This feels like Blue grew up since her game though and then met Yellow during her own adventure.

Not shown: The aftermath which makes all notions of purity non-existent.
Medb isn't the kinda woman to have cute relationships lol

Harumi is literally sick with a fever
Chiaki: "Let me wipe off your sweat or you might catch a cold."

last edited at Nov 19, 2018 3:20AM

What a spicy kiss scene.

I feel bad for good old daddy. He probably didn't think he left his daughter with a slob and sexual predator lol
Unless this was his secret scheme... pfff

Luckily Akari is receptive, so it's not too bad. Apologizing to mom won't help tho.

I think we all can agree, that in real life Touko-san would be a horrible sexual predator. However, it's a yuri manga, so I think it's okay to relax and enjoy.

I am seriously angry at myself that I feel the same way. We shouldn't have this double standard. Sexual harrassment is bad, no matter what sexual orientation. If this was a guy doing it (even in a light hearted sense) people would be up in arms.
Basically the only reason this works is that the initial kiss wasn't purely intentional and she apologized and tried to make it lose severity. And everything that follows now is probably her already taking the hints that Akari is into it. It was a lucky coincidence (as dictated by the author lol).

Chiaki always wins, while Harumi always loses. This is certainly a take and take more relationship lol

Brave to go for nipple kissing this early tho

And another victim was claimed this time off-screen.

That mini-nuke could probably be weaponized. Someone strap Mikage to a plane and give her recordings of Hanapi saying "I love you". You'd win any war instantly. lol

^"So this is the cafe that is limited to lesbian couples?"
I think this speech bubble says it all.

last edited at Dec 27, 2018 6:45AM

Correct. Did I say it was exclusively about yuri? No I did not.

You did put it specifically in the context of yuri anime. I guess that doesn't make it exclusive, but it's odd to do it if that wasn't part of your point. Alright then.

"There are various reasons to make an adaptation" I didn't say all adaptations are made for the reason to reach a new audience, but-

Sure, there might be 2 or 3 of those out there, but that's never the point and never will be the point of these kinds of anime adaptations. They exist as promotion for the manga, nothing else.

(stares)

Okay, I know I'm being an asshole about this, but...

(just stares) Are you HIGH?

You certainly are being an asshole about this. lol

You will have to accept this. Far more people start to read the manga because the anime ended on a cliffhanger, rather than being put off by it. If the anime has a completely satisfying ending, then that will undoubtedly lead to less people checking out the manga, that's simple psychology, but that doesn't mean the anime has to be bad for it. Taking your original route or ending is ballsy and turns out terrible 90% of the time. So forgive me if I don't have any love for that approach.

The suggestion that the anime exists as basically a glorified advertisement for the manga is comically hilarious. These shows cost millions of dollars to produce and require the creative efforts of numerous professionals. They are produced by companies that license the property from the manga creator and the producers of the anime get no benefit from increased sales of the manga. They're in it for advertising revenue and disc sales, -maybe- merchandising rights. Selling extra books gains the studio nothing, so why exactly do you think they PAY THE AUTHOR for the rights to use their story? Because they plan to make money. Off the -anime-.

You are so astonishingly wrong about this that I find it hard to believe you're even being serious.

Let me explain how this process works. You don't have to take my word for it, feel free to look into it yourself.

An anime company sees a property that has some popularity and approaches the rights owner, usually the artist in the case of a manga. They -give them money- for the opportunity to license their story and characters into an anime. They then produce the anime at significant expense, with or without the author's input in accordance with whatever all parties agreed to. The goal of the anime company here is to make back their investment plus profits, so they air the show on TV and they sell discs of it. I have never heard of an animation studio getting any kind of residuals or bonuses if the manga sales pick up afterwards.

Selling additional manga is certainly a motivation for the author to give the company permission to make the anime, but the production company itself doesn't see any of that. So no, their goal is not to sell the manga and nothing more.

And here lies the issue with your entire argument. You don't understand the anime and manga industry, very clearly.
The magazines that publish the manga are the ones who hire a studio to make the anime in 7/10 cases. So there is no licensing issue. Most anime do not cost millions of dollars. Especially the 12 episode format, which is specifically made for the reason of advertising the manga and gaining a larger audience for it. (Of course with long running Shounen anime like One Piece it's a two-way beneficial situation where the anime gets more manga readers and the manga gets more anime watchers in tandem over a long time).

No doubt they make bank on the Blue-ray sales and ad revenue themselves, otherwise that wouldn't be very profitable overall, but you really miss the point of why most anime adapation of Light Novels and manga are made. I never said the studio doesn't want to profit on their own, that's a given obviously.

The magazine (not the author) is the main instance that profits of this deal and that's why in the cases you mentioned of the studio apporaching them, they agree almost every time. Mangaka are basically shackled and bound by their publishers and editors. They don't have much say in anything.

Yeah, that is pretty much entirely my point. They made something I like better by modifying it to suit the format in which it was being released. Pretty much all discussion we could have here is subjective unless we want to go digging into sales figures or whatever.

Then don't make it seem like it is a legitimate support for your argument? lol

We're -all- expressing our opinions here, mate, spare me your faux moral superiority as you proceed to talk like yours plopped directly from the asshole of God almighty.

I don't care about morals. I am saying you are looking at this with tunnel vision from your personal preferences.

Numerous creators disagree with you. The question of how closely to stick to source material in an adaptation is a contentious one, but almost anybody that actually does this stuff for a living will tell you that some changes basically need to happen. Hell, in THIS case, changes have already happened, they've just been minor ones.

Yes, because directors and story-boarders want to express themselves, which is completely fine. I am not against that on principle. You need to make changes to fit the medium better, but altering the story is not a necessary step at all. That's either a constraint of the source material or the studio opting for a "complete" feeling as you mentioned before, but it is usually just as weak as a cliffhanger ending.
I hope you don't somehow think I hate changes in general for some reason.

The point isn't that they're not interested to read the manga after that scene. The point is they were watching the anime, and if the anime doesn't have a satisfying ending, it disappoints people. Even if they ARE interested in seeing the manga, the fact that the anime has a disappointing ending can still be frustrating for people. Like I said, I'm not just pulling this from nowhere. I have consistently seen these kind of complaints about anime series that stuck slavishly to the source material and then end abruptly without resolution.

My point is that spending time building up an event you never intend to show makes the work unsatisfying. If the manga had ended at the point in the series you're suggesting they end the anime, Everybody in this comment section would have exploded with rage and grief. We'd be bitching about the amputated school play arc in comment threads on totally different series. Reasonable odds it'd become a MEME.

What I am saying is that the anime, -as an independent work-, would be better if they structured it to end with the play than if they make the play a big deal for the entire series and then never show it.

If you don't care about the anime as an independent work, that's fine. That's your opinion. I do. I think every work should be satisfying as a work in itself, and it would be a shame if this one wasn't "finished" or didn't end at a satisfying point.

And I have consistently seen the opposite as well. Do you know how many hundreds of people ask "Which chapter did the anime end on? I want to keep reading. I want to see what happens next!"? Heck they already do that halfway through sometimes, because they can't wait for the weekly releases.
The thing is, while both exist, your focus doesn't matter. If someone gets so turned off by a cliffhanger/open ending that they don't want to read the source material, they simply didn't care enough. That's their issue. They got the perfect set-up and that's all they deserve.

There is no amputation, because it isn't cut out. It still happens, just in the continuation of the story, which might or might not be in a season 2, but certainly in the manga. An actual amputation is to cut off something important or good from the source material for the sake of time. It ruins the story far more and the people who read the manga afterwards will feel that it was awful to have been cut out. You must be thinking pretty niche if you believe this would be able to spawn any memes lol
In a way all romance anime suffer this to a degree. They all build up to the confession or whatever and then don't deliver 80% of the time. But you know it will happen if you keep reading the manga. Having the play be build up doesn't mean we need to see it in the anime. That is a background plot point which carries the actually important character arcs.

The anime cannot be an independant work in this case. The decision was made to stick close to the source material. And even if it wasn't, YagaKimi doesn't lend itself to alterations like that. The balance between characters and development is very fragile. I can guarantee you that almost any alteration would be worse than the manga. And sure, anime only people might never know that, but why should the fans who made this anime possible suffer for the newcomers' satisfaction?

Most readers are satisfied to see their favorite manga be done justice and animated at all. They don't feel this lack of satisfaction, becaue they know what happens next. The newcomers might feel disatsifed at first, but it's in their own power to change that, unlike if the adaptation was altered and butchered.

last edited at Nov 18, 2018 4:15AM