This panel actually has become a meme? Amazing.

This is not how I remember Sleeping Beauty.

I'm almost certain Pekoe told everyone to stop talking about the scanlation drama... maybe it was a hallucination.

I've been agreeing with your posts on this for the most part (saving me the effort of making a lot of points). That Uta hasn't really "reversed"; letting go of her feelings wasn't ever something she wanted, it was something she thought she ought to do, and now she has revised that. Self discovery is a big part of being a teenager.

In the case of the "auto-complete melodrama" though, so far we haven't seen any sign of Kaoru doing any sort of premeditated manipulation (not even subconsciously), she does occasionally succumb to selfish impulses, like wanting things to stay the same, but not plans like trying to trap Uta or lying to her.
She made one hang-up call, and Uta came running, so she has no reason to be insecure about Uta's devotion. Every time she as asked for support Uta has come though (and many times she didn't even need to ask), contrast all the times she has reached out to Reiichi and been turned down.

I think it is more likely to be another impulse thing - eg she is so relieved/grateful to Uta that she tries to "give her what she wants" in thanks, rather than as some effort to control her. Uta's next step to maturity may well be to see that happening, and gently tell her she doesn't have to anything in return, that she is there for Kaoru because she wants to be.

Now to be fair, I said it was a gut feeling. They are often right, but they aren't exactly accurate either. I'm just saying it feels like that kind of plot point is now "accessible" if that makes any sense. Before this point I also never felt that Kaoru had any need to do something like that. Her "selfishness" and desire to cling to normalcy and happiness has never been outward towards people. She has never actively tried to hold it together beyond some meek attempts to keep Uta with them using reasonable arguments. She mostly indirectly makes people want to care for her... I suppose.

The melodrama stuff is just an exaggeration, that's why I said I hate my brain for doing it. My actual prediction was just that Kaoru will do something that traps Uta again, in whatever way that may be. Now is the time for serious development and change. This could also mean she confesses that she suspects Reiichi cheating or any other secret, because right now her mental state has deteriorated to a dangerous degree. She can do anything out of emotional affect.

The other option, which I am also not fond of is... another evasion. Uta takes care of Kaoru and they don't do anything that crosses a line. Uta's feelings are reinvigorated of course and she wants to protect Kaoru, which will still cause change, but the developments will be minimal beyond that. This is how the manga has mostly operated until now, so falling back into that pace is not entirely impossible. Instead of taking 3 steps, it would just take 1, but alas, that's drama for you.

last edited at Apr 11, 2020 8:37AM

While it's not a popular opinion, I truly believe that this is the best time for Utah to make a move. Kaoru is lonely and confused, and Utah is the only person who is there for her right now. She can go be her savior and fix her. And while that is not the ideal way of getting someone to fall for you, there are many love stories that starts from a situation like this.

Utah cannot stop loving Kaori, that is something we have to accept. So I will just support her in chasing Kaoru until we can finally get the yuri we deserves. They can start from a messy love story and just make it beautiful later.

I'm generally opposed to abusing people's vulnerable times to make a move. This situation is no different. My guess is the opposite will happen in fact. Kaoru, out of a very deep sense of loneliness and fear, might do something problematic to keep Uta close this time.

I could be totally wrong about that, but I have a gut feeling that it's time for a development like that... no matter how much it will annoy me. I sense a kiss... or at least some very horrible choice of words that will trap Uta again.

"You love me, right? So you will stay with me. You won't leave me alone again... I will even give you what you want." Ahhh why does my brain auto-complete this kind of melodrama!

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 7:04PM

I've reread chapters 28-30 and I've change my mind. BugDevil is completely right. My theory was a product of months between chapters and my revisionist memory. God I hate when a lesbian character steals the man of the girl she likes. That strategy makes zero sense to me. In the end no one wins.

In this scenario it was intended to be a sacrifice though. There was no other strategy involved than taking away the burden from Kaoru.

There is no hard and fast rule that romances have to end well. However they are generally the story of two people's paths converging into one and that is generally considered a happy event. The drama and aaangst tags usually mean that those paths are meandering full of obstacles and sometimes even lost for a while.

The thing is, especially for a story like this with many pairings, only one (usually the main pairing) has any narrative peer pressure to be happy by the end. The side-pairings can all flounder and fail, especially with drama.
Of course especially in Yuri and BL, shit can go for the bittersweet ending more often than in het romance. It's a tired trope of the genre.

I didn't mean it like that. Over the couple months it took for these chapters to come out I forgot details like the scene where Risako nurses Kaoru, or Risako admitting she didn't like Reiichi. I just remembered Risako getting to know Reiichi the accepting his feelings. I had built a mental picture that both Reiichi and Risako gave up on each other for there mutual love and concern for Kaoru. And once Kaoru found happiness with Uta then they would go back to each other.

Well I am glad that for once it was just a misunderstanding instead of one of your weird opinions and interpretations. I dont think I wanted to turn this topic into a longer discussion.

So, there is a lot I can say about this manga: ... rather bad art ...

Have you looked at your avatar? I guess there is no accounting for taste as they say.

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 4:45PM

I agree with with your assessment, except I don't think Risako is in love with Kaoru I can see where that is coming from, but from a story stand point I don't think that's the case. This is supossedly a romance story, and no matter how messy a romance gets it suppose to have a happy ending. Reiichi is a good guy, if a bit dence he deserves a happy ending as well. So when the dust settles and Kaoru ends up with Uta, Risako is his happy endings. He obviously loves her but gave her up on her to be by Kaoru's side.

Who decided that romance is supposed to have a happy ending? That has never been a requirement, especially not paired with the Drama tag.
And what you are really saying here is a bit callous... Risako is Reiichi's happy ending? But she doesn't love him. You are taking away her agency for an imaginary happy end.

What exactly is your reasoning here for all these details between Risako and Kaoru if it is not love? Kaoru herself said it... Risako was jealous and she said she never understood love, but Kaoru basically told her that it is love, thinking that Risako was falling for Reiichi, but it was so clearly directed at Kaoru it's almost hilarious.
If Risako is not in love with Kaoru(or at least has a feeling comparitive in intensity to that for her) then why did she only feel happy around Kaoru? Why did she wrap Reiichi around her finger just to spare Kaoru the pain of confessing and being half-heartedly strung along? Why did she get jealous of Reiichi for being able to be close to Kaoru?

Even if your reply to this is "friendship", I will accept that as a possibility. Just don't impose some unjustified crush on Reiichi on her please.

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 12:52PM

I think that perception is a bit off-kilter when talking about hentai. I've seen countless female/lesbian authors who would fit this type of "male-gazed" thing you speak of. In many aspects straight men and lesbians appreciate similar things. The response to this artist's works by female readers are usually positive. If people think it's hot then it probably is. Hentai is seldom realistic about sex, so it's not like accuracy is a big factor.

Don't get me wrong, I liked it and thought it's hot, and I know some female authors (like Mira) like to draw that kind of scenes.
But even if I think they're hot in hentai or porn, once I tried those postures irl I started to think why it's so common in porn and hentai. Maybe It's just me who had high expectations and felt a bit dissatisfied afterwards, I don't know how to express it.

But again, I don't see male-gazed yuri hentai as a bad thing, but rather as something that a lot of cis men think it's how wlw sex works 100% of the times.

This is my problem with your approach... hentai is not supposed to perfectly replicate real sex. It's a fantasy. This style is neither an indication of the author's sex nor of the type of audience it is meant for. I brought up lesbian artists for a reason (well you already mentioned Mira specifically). This has nothing to do with a male gaze or inexperience, it's an artistic choice. Just like het hentai has completely ridiculous things happen in it, so do ero yuri doujins.

Heck, there are straight female artists who draw yuri and have the exact same lack of experience as many male artists do, yet you wouldn't call it a male gaze there, right? Let's abandon such disastrous terms in the future.

She really is that outlet she has used since high-school. It's unhealthy. Now i just fear that another mistake will be commited in this horribly unstable situation.

If the mistake is them finally doing it, I can live with that.

How delightfully base of you.

Another classic "reader re-writes the story to fill in what the author couldn't be bothered to depict in the actual text." Uta has been missing from the story entirely for many months with no attention given to her character whatsoever. Then we get a handful of panels that undo the entire character arc of Uta so far.

If the author had been working as hard as the readers do to rehabilitate the deficiencies of what's actually on the page, it would be a much better story.

Really Blastaar, you are getting a bit too self-satisfied with your "criticism" now. You are handwaving away what contradicts your narrative the same way people who force their preferences into a work do. I hold your opinion to a much higher standard than most people's on this site, so this makes me sad.

I believe my conclusions are entirely derived from the work itself, whether my connections are accurate or entirely fitting will be revealed as the story continues. I didn't make this stuff up to fix the story, it's what I see happening in the story.

Look, it started out as Uta's story. It was Uta's story through much of the series so far. The big emotional reversal for the character was her decision to give up her love for Kaoru and move on with her life by going to live with her (hostile and unsympathetic) parents.

Now we get the (obviously necessary for the plot) re-reversal of her feelings. What's the narrative or emotional rationale for that re-reversal?

Because she felt like it.

If you think it's "insulting" to critique a story's construction and execution, well, we disagree.

But context matters. It is not like Uta reverted to her previous state of mind from before she confessed. She no longer is feeling trapped or pressured by the situation. She realized that giving up on her love is simply not a conscious action she can take. Rather she accepted that these feelings she build up over 16 years are part of her identity. What previously trapped her and made her feel miserable is now simply a part of her life that she doesn't fear anymore.

Months have passed in the story and clearly Uta has not taken any action to run back to Kaoru. Her decision to keep those feelings dear are clearly not supposed to be a reversal. She bawled her eyes out to Kuro, kept trying to force herself to forget and it didn't work. So the solution was not to reject, but to embrace it. If it had continued on like this without any major incident, Uta would have become independent and maybe eventually have those feelings fade away naturally, but with a positive nostalgic outlook on them.

Kaoru's (literal) call for help is the reason this equlibirum she has achieved will be tested again. It's like spiling a single drop of oil into a water tank. The re-reversal you speak of is entirely kick-started by Kaoru's initiative, not Uta's. But the decision of whether the water will be cleansed again is Uta's.

What I consider insulting is your implication that either the author or the work are inherently dumb just because you don't see the point. There is nothing constructive about that.

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 10:04AM

Well maybe instead of waiting 2 years to be attacked she could have tried something on her own. I don't really like shifting the blame like that. Otherwise this was pretty cute. They skipped the 2 years of subtext SoL content and jumped right to the conclusion lol

I never thought about it, but I do love to see a manga about an asexual homoromantic girl.
Ayanero Taicho is quite progressive compared to other authors (his latest yuri hentai had LGBT pride) and this is good, but his lewd scenes are a bit too male-gazed.

I think that perception is a bit off-kilter when talking about hentai. I've seen countless female/lesbian authors who would fit this type of "male-gazed" thing you speak of. In many aspects straight men and lesbians appreciate similar things. The response to this artist's works by female readers are usually positive. If people think it's hot then it probably is. Hentai is seldom realistic about sex, so it's not like accuracy is a big factor.

Kuroe is basically you rn in-universe ain't she? :P

It’s not the character I want to ask, “How dumb can you get?”

Overly quick on the draw as usual with this series, hm Blastaar? You don't know what tmnr is going for yet, so it's a bit early to throw around insults.

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 9:03AM

Ayy, can we go back to discuting the chapter and stop something that could be talked in private.

I wouldn't count on it. We are bound to be drowned out either way. Just leave your impression of the chapters here and wait for it to blow over. Those who care about the plot will go back to read them eventually... maybe.

Poor Lico/Rico, completely misjudged her relationship with tapir god.

Fun fact ch61 p6 4th panel, you can see Lico holding some things. The amount of attention to detail in this 4 Koma puts so many other manga to shame

Itou is an absolute genius at inserting background details, context clues and bringing back seemingly unimportant details. There are countless examples of this already, too many to list. This has gotten to the point where people can actually claim that nothing that ever happens in this manga is without meaning. It will always come back in some way.

For people who love lore, speculation and intricate puzzles this manga is a gold mine. The 4koma style is actually a limiter put onto it because it would be too powerful in a normal format. lol

Wait there’s Vtubers who are together? Are they, you know, gay?

I think you replied to the wrong thread. Did you mean to go here https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/10103-dynasty-cafe-a-home-for-off-topic-discussion-where-everyone-s-welcome?page=360#forum_post_563007?

Pretty sure it was meant as a reply to this

Coincidence - you are a fickle mistress.

I will now ritually burry myself as is appropiate for such a foolish mistake.

Alrighty then... ignoring the scanlation war for now.

So back to my tri-monthly dive into this ocean of suffering. Honestly, waiting for 3 chapters at a time might be the only way to really feel like the pace is picking up. It actually feels very well paced when you read several chapters in a row. I always suspected that this manga is more of a "volume by volume" read anyway.

So we got Risako being jealous, which obviously was a subtle implication once again that she is actually gay for Kaoru. Kaoru thought Risako was jealous of her for having had Reiichi look after her in the past, but actually she is jealous of Reiichi for being able to be close to Kaoru so long.

As everyone already knew, Reiichi guilt tripped himself into marrying Kaoru, but he legitmately cares about her of course. He was the only one who actually came for her, when everyone else was fine being brushed off without reply (even Risako). I wonder what Uta was doing during that "empty" period?

Kaoru's extreme loneliness combined with trauma... it really is more like a mental illness at this point. She had a freaking panic attack for crying out loud. Reiichi is an idiot for not noticing anything. Uta is an idiot for doing all of this nonsense to get over her love and then just decides "I'll just keep loving her from a distance lol". That's the same mistake Risako made and it never helps either of them.

It's good that Uta at least had enough instinct to take the situation seriously unlike her dumb brother. It is quite telling that Kaoru would call her instead of Reiichi in the first place. She really is that outlet she has used since high-school. It's unhealthy. Now i just fear that another mistake will be commited in this horribly unstable situation.

My stomach hurts already....

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 7:42AM

Incest debates...

Also about 3 pairings are starting to manifest huehue

Someone is not into twincest I see.

Wincest has to be earned.

Joking aside, I don't think the story has given any particular push for that kind of subtext, so I won't put on any more goggles than I already am legally obligated to when watching this type of anime.

Wait there’s Vtubers who are together? Are they, you know, gay?

I think you replied to the wrong thread. Did you mean to go here https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/10103-dynasty-cafe-a-home-for-off-topic-discussion-where-everyone-s-welcome?page=360#forum_post_563007?

Thanks for the info. There's waaaaaaay too much Vtuber content to watch everything in a week.

HmMmmmMMmmMMMmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giV5qCJW2Y

Gosh Tomoe was so thirsty during that entire stream. She literally wanted to end it 4 times so she can push Sukoya onto the bed behind them. lol

Welp. Don't I look like a big old fool now. Whoever this uploader is must clearly be working for the Dark Clan.
Uh... well now that it's here I don't know what to say, because I already discussed it on every other platform.

Chapter 64 will be glorious. And also annoying. But mostly what we need.

I also heard that Nijisanji has an actual lesbian couple (like legit irl). Tomoe and Sukoya.

Thanks for the info. There's waaaaaaay too much Vtuber content to watch everything in a week.

You could watch all of their streams for 1 year straight and still not be done with it. That's infinite hours of content, so you probably should stick to a handful you really care about and watch some translations on whatever tickles your fancy.

Though reading a manga about a familial love triangle would certainly be something interesting lol

Wouldn't that simply be a divorced couple fighting over a child?

It could totally work. It already happens in real life anyway, but a comedy manga could make it less toxic.
And by the end the parents remarry as through their trials to get the child to choose them they reignited the flame of whatever they originally saw in each other. lol

Yeah...I'm already in...
Sara went on a date with Matsuri. It's hilarious how much of a bottom Matsuri is when she's supposed to be the "dangerous one".
Oh and I watched every Okayu x Korone vid at this point. OTP!

Ah Vtubers... I only got a bit invested recently, mostly Matsuri and Korone. So I actually know what you're talking about. Damn Matsuri is thirsty and awkward. Poor girl almost seems in the closet.
OkaKoro is just precioussness incarnate.

I also heard that Nijisanji has an actual lesbian couple (like legit irl). Tomoe and Sukoya.

Tamayomi drawings look very simple but when they move is so smooth !! sometimes it almost feels like 60fps

Except when they use the cursed CG that is also done for idol dance choreography. Something about the artstyle in general is a bit unsettling. The faces are too small or off model? I dunno.

Either way Tamayomi has some quick pace. We already got 8/9 baseball team members and a manager/supervisor in episode 2.

Also about 3 pairings are starting to manifest huehue

last edited at Apr 9, 2020 4:30AM

Life is full of it

Isn't that why this is fiction? So that we can do something beyond the limits of reality? Ghosts aren't real. This scenario isn't real. Why does the pointlessness have to be?
That's just how I see it.

People's lives have meaning, not their deaths. It's not the author's job to make the reader feel better, fiction doesn't mean catering to some escapist fantasy. And her death was the catalyst for the story, without it our protagonists wouldn't have any interaction.

Oh, so you tell me that having the chance to show your feelings to the ghost of your crush is not an escapist fantasy? I will repeat: This scenario in itself is already unrealistic and highly fictitous. Are you going to decide now which aspects can be fantastic and which must be realistic?

I value purpose over generic "Look it's so sad, because I wanted it to be". Not even mentioning the complete dissonance between the whacky romcom-esque first half and the stark shift into "now cry" second half. To abrupt, as I mentioned.