You're under arrest for theft! Stealing a maiden's heart is a crime punished by lips.

last edited at May 4, 2019 2:16AM

Gentle

I can buy that they are bi.

Cynthia is certainly top tier... just don't pair her up with a 11 year old pls.

Player alert

I do find Mashu quite boring (the glasses don't help either), but I'll be damned if this picture doesn't make me appreciate this ship.

last edited at May 4, 2019 2:07AM

Alice won't be taller for much longer, considering her legs are turning into stardust!

Su~Ki~

You are all getting it wrong. The wingwomen actually set this up so Ucchi could experience a confession from Tomoko.

Palutena certainly is getting around...

Can I read this series instead? Please let there be a timeskip to this.

Like she doesn't have it already lol

Embarrassment is my favorite spice.

Something can have entertainment value without being realistic . In practice, in order to accurately portray something to the extent that others who have lived through it would resonate with it intensely, it’s either: a common experience, or if not a common experience, then yes you must have lived it. Most portrayals of war, for example, are not actually accurate neither in movies nor novels. The audience would think they are, since they have no basis of comparison, and they are certainly entertaining. But they are not accurate.

So, I am a lesbian. I personally don’t find the portrayal of romance in the vast majority of Yuri manga accurate at all. It’s fun, but not accurate. It’s like a unidimensional View of what it’s actually like, which I suppose is good enough.

My argument is simply that considering how bad this story is in terms of showing emotions between females, it’s almost like the author either has no knowledge of it or as I then suggested, is no longer interested in the story.

Research exists for a reason. There are writers who can write extensive novels about World War 2... about 60 years later and it still resonates with veterans from that war. Well documented things can easily be replicated merely from studying them and simply putting yourself into that situation. Extraordinary things can be replicated by putting a lot of thought and empathy into it to really understand what it is about.
Not like love for or between women is anything extraordinary... even a gay man could write it believably without much trouble.

It's actually quite funny, because you project your own experiences as the status quo. Being a lesbian does not make you an expert on lesbian relationships, only your own. Who are you to claim that these dynamics do not exist in real life? lol

Or the much more likely case, the author simply has a different style of portraying said emotions. There are plenty of people like Uta or Kaoru in this world.

Ad hominem attack alert!

It was a joke. Although it still was true to what you actually wrote. I mean... c'mon. You made a claim on the author's sexuality with exactly zero research just because you don't find their portrayal of women realistic. That's as far from logic as you are from the moon.

last edited at May 4, 2019 3:40AM

I'm not looking to wholesale blame people.

At the funeral, those attending literally tell her to live as her sister. They say to her "Live on in your sister's place" and this is repeated in her memory of another person saying "live on as your sister...". It is also said to her to "be a good person like Mio-chan was" -- "sister's place" and "good person" are in bold emphasizing what Touko understood from what she was being told and of what was being projected onto her by others. It's not unreasonable -- especially for a young child with limited life experiences who was emotionally dependent on her sister -- to develop the belief that the only way for her to be a good person, to be worthy of love or at least praise, is to be someone else.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch10#34
Except that is not what they "literally" said.
"Live on in your sister's place" and "live on as your sister" are fundamentally different things. Plenty of people are "a good person" and Touko clearly knew that too.
Touko misinterpreted their words in a way that fit her guilty conscience and perception of how perfect her sister was. You even acknowledge this right after making the opposite point...

She internalized that you can be loved and praised being like Mio, but the belief that she has to replace her was all her own.

Touko doesn't "stomp away" from her father. She gets up abruptly, clears her dishes, and calmly explains that she's going to finish her studies as she leaves. Her father meant well, likely aware of what was said to Touko prior and on how she's been living her life from what he's been able to see of it, but Touko's view of the play and desire to perform isn't just about living on as Mio. She wants to do this play for herself. Her father, unfortunately, doesn't realize that his concern perpetuates what had made it so difficult for Touko to be confident in her own choices -- what Touko has a hard time saying is that she is also doing this play for herself.

While I didn't make the "stomp away" argument, it is very clear that Touko is upset here and ran from the conversation.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch19#21
She is far from calm. Her parents definitely know this and it only implies that this is not the first time they tried to talk to her and she just fled.

Except it was for Mio's sake. She kept telling herself that she was doing it for her own sake as well, but that's so obviously a lie. She does it to finally become Mio. To make up for what Mio has lost. Only later did Yuu snap her out of that bad mindset and thanks to that she discovered her love for acting (ironic isn't it?).
It's pretty ignorant to call the parents out for doing the right thing. She is doing all of this for the wrong reasons, so even if it benefits her (which it wouldn't have had if Yuu wasnt there to intefere), it's not a good thing.

Her father on the other hand made the discussion about Mio, not Touko. That said, even if her father said what Yuu said, that doesn't mean she'd listen, because it is hard for Touko to trust family.

He made it about Mio, because that's what Touko made it about. Touko keeps her distance, so he has no way of getting to the core of the matter.

What people do and say to us can and do have profound impacts on our self-view and our "choices". It is unfair to say that everything Touko has suffered is all her fault, out of the projected expectation of her to have a skill she was never truly able to develop nor begin to develop until she was able to accept herself.

I am a huge advocate for choice and consequence. A person can make any choice they want, no matter how bad, but they have to accept the consequences. Touko has extenuating circumstances and it is not quite fair, but these choices she made are hers. They were not forced on her by anyone. Her basic misunderstanding of what love and happiness should be are informed by her surroundings... but then she wilfully ignored all counter-evidence. Because she felt guilty on one hand and much safer in her Mio shell.
I think it would take away Touko's independence to claim this was not build on her bad choices.

And sometimes it is better to support someone than to question them at all, which is what Yuu does.

Yuu absolutely questioned Touko's worldview. She was just subtle enough to change it without being direct about.

Touko was lead to believe that being perfect was the only way people would appreciate her. She is further being hurt, but that's not something to tell her is solely, completely, and only her fault. She is afraid to be herself because she was taught that being herself was not a good thing. And as time went on, as she continues to wear this mask, it became harder and harder for her to face herself.

She has never been taught that. She was told something vaguely like it at a pivotal moment in her development and that's the most you can claim. To pretend Touko was taught or raised to be this way is simply wrong. It's something she taught herself wrongly.
I do agree that she found it harder and harder to drop the mask. That is exactly how we got here.

Except Touko also states that she is doing the play for herself and because she wants to. This isn't just about Mio, but about Touko learning more about herself and about someone who was and is incredibly important to her. She even makes it a point to ask what her sister was like, not simply relying on what other's have already said and her own conclusions. In a way, the play and build up to the play functions as her grieving process, because she never really got to due to the expectations of others. She wanted to know more about her sister, and that's not a bad thing.

The whole point, or a main point, to the play was to accept that another person's view of you does not wholly define you. And to find yourself, to act on your own interests, even if what comes next is unknown and scary. Touko is still scared, still uncertain as her hand shakes while accepting and reciprocating Yuu's love, but her experiences lead her to discovering herself more and to gaining the ability to act or make the "choice".

That is a meta perspective, not the pespective of the character. You are absolutely right about the play's function, but that is not what Touko perceives it as.
By saying she is "also doing it for herself" she never implied she did it to form her own self-indentity or because she enjoyed it. Those are results she had no influence over. What she tried to achieve by doing the play was quite clearly only to become Mio and make up for that lost time. Thanks to Yuu's meddling, it instead turned into some sort of acted out therapy lol

last edited at May 4, 2019 2:30AM

But one thing that has always jumped out at me in that scene is Yuu's reaction to her dad's comment. In the first translation I saw, he said something about putting his foot down, which sounds more opposed, in this it's more just like "Man, I wouldn't know what to do". I'm not sure which is more accurate to the original, but either way, I know that feeling. That little silent awkward lonely moment after somebody you love and respect unknowingly says something negative about the identity that you're discovering for yourself. Rei may have identified Mom as the problem, but I bet that Yuu is more apprehensive about what her dad will do or say about it.

You are talking about this scene right?
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch04#10

I feel a sense of deja vu here, but anyway... You are probably interpreting too much into it due to a prior bias (we all have those). That scene really doesn't show Yuu reacting negatively in any way and there is no indication that her silence has anything to do with what her father said. If anything she is just in thought because of what Rei said. A thought a la "Is that really what we look like to others?"
The entire "discovering her identity" thing was not even relevant back then. At this point Yuu firmly believed she wasn't in love or could ever love.
I have real trouble seeing Yuu be apprehensive about it because her father made a random remark once that she barely even registered. It's not impossible, but if Yuu has any hang ups about coming out to her family, I doubt it would be because of that.

last edited at May 3, 2019 1:06PM

Right, guilt must play some kind of role, but what Touko actually says is that she “had to take her place,” then stresses the rewards of being praised.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch10#35

The overall effect of Touko’s thoughts on the matter (to me) don’t really seem to be about atonement for being at fault for her sister’s death, but more about having become the “Replacement Goldfish” (a la TV Tropes), she’s unwilling to give up that role, especially since to her the “real Touko” is a shy, sniveling dummy (although I personally think little crybaby Touko is adorable in the brief glimpse we get of her).

And to me those rewards sound much like an excuse. Which is not strictly addressed anywhere, so I will have to concede that the other parts weigh in more.

I just want to mention that especially with the play, the overall reasoning and tone was always "I am doing this for my sister. I will finally finish what you started. I have to do this. I will become Mio and do it." It naturally plays into her filling the void and abandoning her weak self, but does this not strongly point towards atonement to you?
Touko never even considered what she would do after the play. She only moved forward to reach this goal, the one thing Mio could never finish, because she died. If Touko only wished to become like her sister (or even become her), I just can't justify the constant reminders that she is doing it for Mio. Becoming a replacement for her own sake just never even felt like an option.

Maybe its just genre savviness, but the sentiment of "I will live the life you could never live for you." is something quite common and strong.

I don’t think it’s an exaggeration or misreading to see Touko’s base self-image as a form of self-harm, although I think guilt about her sister’s death can be overstated as the specific central motivation. While some degree of survivor’s guilt is implicit in the situation, Touko actually stresses how much she despised her weak, childish self and insists that she’s never going back to that way of being.

As far as guilt goes, I may have somewhat overstated it. This is more of a gut feeling to be sure. These two pages...
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch17#4
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch17#5
...have left a rather big impact on me. Even more so in the anime version of the scene. I cannot help but think that for someone so young, this innocent game of rock paper scissors is indeed the "reason" Mio died and thus makes it her fault. As Touko grew up she might have logically realized that it was not her fault, but emotionally we can see she has never gotten over it.

last edited at May 3, 2019 9:34AM

I would say basic logic dictates

I will have to stop ya there. We know your logic doesn't exactly have the most... logical basis.

Good point actually. Maybe they are into women, but not into this story anymore.

And here is the best example. You made a ridiculous assumption and immediately flip-flopped at the tiniest shred of counter-evidence. Doc is right, gender and sexual orientation are irrelevant to how someone portrays a story. They can be an influence, but do not dictate the author's actual views and even less their own situation.

Someone who has never held a gun in their life can still accuaretely describe how it works.

last edited at May 3, 2019 9:45AM

Touko's parents couldn't stop her from hurting herself, so they can't stop her from dating a girl, but they appear to just want her to become herself again, so that's why I don't think they will mind the method much.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hurting herself" when it comes to Touko. Her family, or at least people at her sister's funeral, shamed her into believing that to be worth anything she had to be like her sister. It's a result of people not being able to accept death, especially when someone dies young, so they project the deceased onto someone living, and then expect the living to live on as the deceased. This is what hurt Touko not a case of self harming.

It is rather simple to put the blame on her relatives, but that is wrong. Touko herself chose to interpret their words that way and tried to live up to such expectations. Her guilt for Mio's death and desire to appeal to them was the main driving factor for her decision to become Mio.
Very clearly her parents were not part of those misleading expectations as they did not want her to do it.

By continuing to act strong and "perfect" Touko kept hurting herself with that facade. Her parents told her to stop, yet she continued. So quite obviously, they could not stop her from hurting herself.

Touko was afraid to be herself, so the blame lies with her. It's understandable and a horrible situation to be in, but it was her decision. That's what she kept telling Yuu as well.

I don't think we can actually speculate much on how the parents will react. I mean, nobody visibly freaked out about the gay themes in the play, but Yuu's dad was uncomfortable at the idea of Yuu having a girlfriend. But the thing about bigotry is that it's really kind of hard to predict where it will come out. It's divorced from reason and is sometimes viceral, and some otherwise very nice people can turn suddenly ugly when they find out somebody is gay. So I'm not placing bets, but I imagine Rei is going to have to do SOMETHING for them at some point.

If you read the side-chapter where Rei and Yuu go shopping again, Rei explicitly thinks that their father is a pushover who always goes along with what the others want in the end. Therefore we can easily predict the same happening here. Not everything is about bigotry...

In the same chapter Rei said that their mother would be the biggest obstacle.

Keep in mind that by this point Rei has basically figured out that Touko is the one Yuu is interested in, so these thoughts are already in context of a homosexual relationship.

Touko's parents couldn't stop her from hurting herself, so they can't stop her from dating a girl, but they appear to just want her to become herself again, so that's why I don't think they will mind the method much.

^Yeah I got that, but you are seeing a roadblock sixty miles down the street, when the street itself is cut off by a cliff right from the start lol

last edited at May 3, 2019 12:13AM

You couldn't just leave it alone. You had to make an asshole comment about it and attempt to frame me as a moron. It IS a matter of opinion, and there IS a definition of the word that makes it not fit the drug category. I've already said it. Go fuck yourself, BugDevil. Seriously.

I didn't portray you as a moron. It might be a simple language barrier thing. Well I was ready to leave it alone, but if you insist... No you did not put up an alternative. You just randomly claimed that love potions usually have "magic effects" which is neither proven, nor makes it any less of a drug. It's not like magic drugs are somehow a new thing.
Then you compared it to an irrelevant doujin about magic breast milk.

I fail to see where there is a definition of potion that makes it not a drug in your posts. But I am sure you still think you are right, so alright. It's your opinion. I will now try to find a method to fornicate with myself if you don't mind.

last edited at May 2, 2019 3:14PM

The category was "Things that have been flattened."

Welp.
That is what happens when someone suddenly uses a hammer in a world of scalpels.

A flounder, perhaps.

I've spent way too much time trying to divinate the hidden meaning behind flounders on the web. All I could gather is an old fairy tale where a talking flounder was cast back into the ocean. Not quite as covertly cruel as I had hoped.

I may have invested far too much thought into this.

Also, is no one going to talk about how Touko changed shoes at some point?
Was it when she took her backpack off? I’m genuinely curious lol

If we want to be favorable, maybe she did switch to indoor shoes. It's Touko after all, the ever diligent student council president.

This does remind however that she was so hellbent on talking to Yuu that she literally ran to school the moment she returned from her trip. Not even a tiny trip home. That's one heck of a re-confession.