No, it isn't. -https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_ch51#12, she would do it like this.
No i don't want it to be platonic love.
And also, i don't say that's it not possible that Kasumi loves Sakurako romantically, but just that it is also possible that they're just veeeeeeeeeeeeery close friends like the author refers them herself. I just say, it could be both!
As example, Kasumi said: "Oh well. Now that i'm with you, it's like i've got a younger sister the same age as me. It's fun." - it could also be that she sees Sakurako as something like a Sister. Or another thing, if you are queer (i don't know if you're), would you think something like this: "I got a lot from younger girls, too... Why don't they give them to guys?" a quote by Kasumi after she got a lot Valentine's Chocolate... Why would she think something like this?

So, I think it's wrong to say that anyone who thinks that it could be platonic love is wrong, though nobody knows what's the true.. (sry for my english)

EDIT: This is not a personal attack by the way. I'm just making a general statement on the topic of platonic love and the reason you might be misinterpreting it.

Ugh... I really didn't want to do this, so I hope you won't make me...
Yukiko-sensei doesn't like drawing kisses. I don't know why, but she simply doesn't. Whenever an on-screen kiss happens, she hides the lips touching behind a head, hair or by not finishing the motion. The closest example is this:
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_ch42_5#15
This is exactly the same kiss Kasumi gave Sakurako from a different angle. Please don't make me post every single kiss in the manga to prove my point. You will find that there is not a single one that shows everything. This is just another example of that.

Seriously, you have to straight up want to see it as a platonic kiss to somehow twist it that way... I guarantee you, not a single person who read that chapter thought it was a kiss on the cheek.

As for your... argument... It took Kasumi a long time to figure out her feelings for Sakurako. She has never shown any interest in romance before this. Giving chocolates to guys is normal for girls, so at that point she had no reason to think differently.
But we know that her thinking has changed... You really should have read the posts that collected evidence. I don't want to regurgitate all of that, but...
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_ch51#5
If you cannot see what this chapter and this page in particular (as well as the one where Kasumi kissed Sakurako) means, then perhaps you simply can't read the mood. Yes, her reaction to Sakurako's pushing is to somewhat exaggerate and then treat it like its silly, but what Kasumi says first "Is there really a need to put it into words?" is exactly the same as confirming it. She means "I love you, but I don't feel a need to say it all the time."

I am saying this with absolute certainty, something I don't do often (when I am serious anyway): There is no room for interpretation. Everyone that claims this is platonic love is surely, utterly and indubitably wrong. This is not subtext anymore. At some point even the greatest pessimist or contrarian must bow to evidence.

last edited at May 6, 2019 3:36PM

Let's just go with this one, then.

I'll preemptively rule this one out. I think it's obvious what the opposition will say. "It doesn't count, because Kasumi just wanted the candy." And I would even be inclined to agree. While Kasumi shows off that she loves Sakurako a lot, this wasn't one of those moments. Though it does show that she has zero inhibitions around her.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_ch53#10
Not offended, just exasperated.

This is on the cheek, like i said..

It's not. That's just how Yukiko-sensei draws kisses sometimes. There are several examples of this in the manga. It was clearly intended to be a real kiss. A kiss on the cheek would be strongly telegraphed. If this was actually the way it is drawn, it would not be on the cheek, but the edge of her mouth, which is obviously wrong, so with all this info I think we can put 2 & 2 together.

It's almost like you want it to be platonic love and are really forcing it.

last edited at May 6, 2019 2:20PM

Kasumi kissed Sakurako never with the intention of a Kiss on the Mouth.
But yeah, i know you're easily offended when someone has other opinion than you...

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_ch53#10
Not offended, just exasperated.

Hayate surprised me.

I thought she played the "oblivious character" role... you know, the character who is oblivious both to the feelings people around her might have for her and to the feelings that may be slowly growing in her own heart.

But there was no obliviousness here, hell no, not in the least, when X tried to steal Honey from her. Hayate's reaction was wonderful. Honey was totally right: grabbing her like that and proclaiming that she won't give her to anyone, that's a declaration of ownership all right, haha.

Although she didn't seem to be aware why she feels this way and quickly made up an excuse. So not quite beyond the obliviousness yet.

That said, when putting all the characters in the series on a scale of virtue/usefulness, Doujima probably ranks above Sayaka’s ex, and the lazy former student-council president, and Oogaki-kun (he had reason to lie, but he did lie and hurt Akari) and maybe somebody I’m not remembering.

But not much higher.

Not saying much with a cast this small and Doujima never getting any focus.

Ah yes, the well known kiss on the mouth between best friends.

Well... While I don't really disagree with you, we do have Girl Friends as an example where this happens even without the "best" part there - leading to Mari not realizing Akko's feelings because of this.

Admittedly, Kasumi (nor anyone else in this series) is not known for doing this with anyone else, though.

And it was already complete nonsense there. One of the weakest parts of Girl Friends was the fake conflict forced by the insistence that this is something girls do, ever, anywhere. At least it was set up as a plot point there though, so it sort of was justifiable in this fictional story.

Not in Room For Two. Until some really jarring exposition scene happens that sets up such a ludicrous rule, we have to treat this with common sense.

last edited at May 6, 2019 8:43AM

Doujima was never a bad dude and it's obvious that he is paired up with Akari.
I didn't think this was one of the subtle parts of this story...

Maybe she loves her, but FOR ME is it not romantic Love.
And some people kiss their friends on the cheek, and are not in love with them.

Ah yes, the well known kiss on the mouth between best friends.
Followed by the girl pal piledriver into bed.
And then the sister-from-another-mother scissor.
Topped off with the perfectly platonic marriage ceremony.

deep sigh

Queen is getting louder in the background
Yeah, I'm a rocket ship on my way to Mars
On a collision course
I am a satellite, I'm out of control
I am a sex machine, ready to reload
Like an atom bomb about to
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh EXPLODE

I think it's commendable not to contradict the source material (unless absolutely necessary).
The problem comes in when you purposely portray it extremely romantic when it isnt in the novels . "Not my interpretation" my ass lol

And yeah, the married for life thing is pretty much the typical Japanese idea of extremely strong platonic girl friendships. Apparently in the past it was very common to encourage girls to act out something similar to romance when they are young to prepare them for the actual "real" relationship with a guy (basically an extreme version of house). So female 'romantic platonic' relationships are seen as "playing around" and "childish". As if it is a natural part of adolescence that disappears naturally. Something to look back on and remember fondly, but not permanent.
And from there this general theme has evolved into what we see today with almost every female adolescence story in manga centered around only girls.

^Welp. I neither knew nor wanted to know that this got a stage play. What is it with Japan and random stage plays anyway. Oh and the name's not canon unless it is canon to the games. Everything else is an adaptatiion after all. At least with Hakuno that's the name in all materials, even if you can pick you own name.

You have a hard time differentiating “possibilities” from “probabilities”. Notice how I said “most portrayals of war”. Notice how I use words like “likely”, “unlikely” etc. I have no doubt that out of all possible authors, there will be authors who are able to write so well about real events or the lives of specific groups of people or even specific people, that those who personally lived them or are part of those groups etc would say it’s accurate. But it’s a tiny minority. In the vast majority of cases, something is entertaining or touching but is not an accurate depiction of the actual situation. That’s the case with most Yuri manga.

It’s not the first time that people on this website seem to confuse what is “possible in theory”, with what is “likely in practice”. I find that fascinating.

Well, that was not your claim however. Even a lesbian who knows exactly what being a lesbian is like might suck at writing or completely ignore realism. It's actually even very likely.
Instead you make the rather unlikely assumption that the person in question is not into women because... I don't know. Your argument makes little sense, because it should support that this is not the case actually. If you think most yuri manga is not realistic, but the fact is that most yuri manga is written by women and even more often by lesbians... then you are basically saying that this author is following convention and can't make any assumption about their sexuality.

I wanna get off this ride already, I don't think it's healthy to make that many turns per second.

last edited at May 5, 2019 10:55AM

I have no knowledge of anyone on this website. What I've read and bothered to notice makes me think they gotta be paid in some way for all their comments. They are either "talking shop" or they work at a job with little oversight from the boss.

Edit: the screen names you've given are over my head (don't know them personally, yet know of their voluminous comments). Is there a way to find out from the screen name the user is a mangaka or part of a translation team?

I wish I was paid for discussing a hobby... Also did you just suggest they are writing these posts at work? lol

Uh... do you mean usernames?
Mangakas don't usually hang around on some international forum that illegally puts up their scanlated works. I don't think there is a tag for that.
Scanlators, Moderators and Uploaders get a little plaque right next to the username that identifies them as such though.

@Clueless1 Ah... I was just refering to the fact that overly deep analyses and in-depth debates have been a staple of this thread since conception. If Hokuto was doing manga stuff for a living based on some walltext, I think Heavensrun and Blastaar would be world renown mangakas by now.

bites nails
Why is X so perfect? Not popular? Incompetent, funny and cute? That's the holy trinity for a likeable bad guy!

Kyouka getting bridal carried was hilarious. Only an Otaku like her would even care about that trope lol

Rapid Rabbit is rapidly getting possessive of Honey. The good old protect you excuse.

X is secretly a super cute loli! I'm surprised but at the same time not surprised at all!

That's not a loli. She looks like freshman in highschool.

last edited at May 5, 2019 2:48AM

You are new to this thread, aren't you @Clueless1? lol

If this is a form of humor it is entirely too advanced for my regressive lizard brain.

Let's combine it all then. Miya has just served her 10 year prison sentence (so she forcefully left the house more) and immediately elopes with Hana (passing by dead Matsumoto), while Hinata and Noa are a couple in college.

@Nevri
Hmm... I am glad I asked, because now I got a much clearer picture of your viewpoint. It's good to see that you have a more nuanced approach to it than your initial post suggested. While I am rather sharply on the opposite end of the spectrum and put authorial intent above any interpretation of outsiders, I do understand the need for interpretation, especially if the author is not available to explain it or if they contradict themselves (which happens far too often sadly).
Sometimes merely by copying or imitating something an author can accidentally make a statement about a topic as well, so there are exceptional cases where interpretations are superior to the author's own intent.

I find this particular case rather one-sided however. The souce material is het, the director actively put the subtext in there knowingly without the intent of making it true. It was not an accident. It was all intentional. An intentional contradiction is not a true contradiction, it's a stylistic choice. Of course more goes into a production than just the director's intent, so there are more influences like the writers, the story-boarders and the artist's passion itself.

Ultimatly having a different interpretation in such a clear cut case is not much better than fanfiction though. I don't believe Liz to Ao Tori is any more legitimately yuri than the original seasons by that logic. You could easily interpret and fanfictionalize season 1 into a yuri story as well, yet it's universally agreed that it's yuribait. I can't honestly see the true difference. It's authorial intent in the season vs. directorial intent in the movie. Both are equally damning for the product.

I am almost a bit envious of your philosophy here that allows you to disregard these things for a better experience. Indeed, for most people who don't know the context, that interpretation of the work is all too real, so they will never even experience doubt. It's yuri until proven otherwise... I suppose. Haha.

last edited at May 4, 2019 6:28PM

For one, you inferred that I was ignorant simply because I felt that Touko's father could have approached her differently, never saying he did something wrong to be "called out" for. Further, you attempted to imply that my view was disrespecting or restricting Touko's independence by myself simply arguing that what Touko's family said to her influenced her view of self and decision making process. And you asked me if the example I used was "the best I could do" as if this is a competition. Those don't represent objectivity, and the topic is the story and characters, not me.

I never brought the others into this. My reply that you've quoted was to Balstaar's question, which specifically was about the conversation between you and I, and no one else. To use others to imply that I am "poisoning the well" by doing something I never did is yet another false accusation. But if the 'Let's" includes you, I do agree that the argument itself is at least not providing an atmosphere for healthy discussion.

That said, this back and fourth really isn't worth it. I'm here to talk about the story, not to fight over personal reasons. So absolutely, let's just move on from this. And to be clear, I posted this because I was asked where I felt the discussion was running into difficulties.

If that had actually been your view, it would be ignorant. Whether you feel insulted by this potential possibility is your own issue.
Saying your view is disrespectful is an insult in what way....? Especially when it's a fictional character who you owe no respect to in the first place?
Of course I ask whether that was your best argument, because there might have been a better one. Your argument being bad is my opinion based on the objective observations I gathered. Whether my interpretation was correct or not, my question for better proof is not an insult, but the natural course of a discussion.

As I did not insult you in any way, I was looking at the other participants of the conversation and added that they too did not do anything of the sort. You are poisoning the well for our conversation right now by forcing in a victim mentality. I find it rather confounding how you came to these conclusions. I don't tend to feel attacked easily, so I have not even paid attention to your own actions in that regard and won't bother to search for them either. Just let it be said that you were the one to derail the conversation under false accusations and misunderstandings, not me...

Your approach is actually less hardline if you water down what consistutes as yuri BV...
Your political orientation doesn't matter here either.

last edited at May 4, 2019 4:45PM

death of the author.

Please don't use that phrase like it constitutes an argument...

Good thing it's a fact, not argument.

Are you seriously going to claim that an essay written by one person from over 50 years ago is the universally accepted truth? Well okay then. You may follow Barthe's principles, but not everyone should. It's a one-sided view of literary works.

"Sing once again with me
Our strange duet
My power over you
Grows stronger yet"

Is the only thing I can think of with basically every chapter lmao.

The Phantom of the Opera was not quite as brilliant as Hino-san. I mean, he did kidnap a girl in front of half a dozen police men without an escape plan.

Though I'd love to see if she can sing as well~

I could understand the same line of thought about something like Nanoha, but making something like Hibike is a really strange way of showing how much you value sapphic love. Not that I want to kinkshame anyone.

Well with Nanoha pretty much everyone from the mangaka to the voice actresses are in agreement on it, so it's subtext that has surpassed text.

How else would you justify them actively cutting on the het scenes and pushing the yuri subtext to the limit?
Actually now that I think about it... I'm pretty sure I read that Naoko Yamada was involved in a lot of creative control of the first season. That might explain a lot...