Forum › Posts by Nevri
That was some big downgrade. Did previous series and 1 year of dating not happen? Why the first chapter is about "you will surely get a boyfriend" and "but we are both girls"? That was pretty disappointing for first chapter of sequel.
Yae (as usual) is just insecure and jealous of Chitose.
I get that Yae is a worrywart, but Hanjuku Joshi was all about coming to realization liking girls is fine and trusting each other. I'd buy it if Yae was worrying Chitose will be popular with girls, but her worrying she will find a boyfriend, because 2 girls dating won't last, just seems out of character. And to add insult to injury the first thing in the chapter is saying they dated for a year. If after all that happened in prequel and dating for a year Yae is still worrying Chitose will randomly break up with her over some boy she is well aware, Chitose is not attracted to, then their relationship is really weak. I thought their love for each other was stronger than that.
She is going to be in an all boys school after all! And the chapter ended with them declaring that they prefer girl's body and flattering each other.
Don't get me wrong, the whole premise of the chapter and argument at the end was funny. What was bothering me was it felt like it was at the expense of all the development they made previously. In any other manga those cliches wouldn't bother me, but Hanjuku Joshi already dealt with them, and in pretty unique way on top of that, so seeing it doing just what every other yuri manga there is doing felt like a big downgrade to me. Sure they got it over in 1 chapter, but imo it should never happen in the first place as they already get over it in prequel. I kinda feel it is for new readers to quickly establish their characters and thoughts in first chapter without having to read prequel (which is not uncommon practice, but depending on way it is done, I'm not fan of), but in this case for people who read prequel it felt really out of place.
I think what's bugging me about this, to the extent that anything is, is that it's way more fluffy so far than the original. The first Hanjuku Joshi had a lot under the surface about self-discovery, navigating your first serious relationship and, to some degree, grappling with the idea that being a lesbian is okay. So far, this one doesn't seem to have much of any of that.
Hanjuku Joshi was pretty fluffy on its own. And they dealt with a lot of those heavy stuff in prequel so it is understandable it would open on more fluffy note. There are still things to explore, especially since now they dated for long period of time, but again, the way first chapter started gives you worries. Had author run out of idea and will just check all the cliches out of the list or they will try to create a interesting narrative again like in prequel. I wouldn't mind it just being pure fluff as long as character will feel like the same characters I grow to love. I'm hoping the series will pick up it's strengths again in next chapters.
last edited at Jan 14, 2018 11:12AM
Anyone interested in translating this? I'd love to know how the story continues.
Oh so that's why new chapters hasn't come out in almost a year, what's more surprising is this is almost year old already...time goes by too fast
I'd do it if not for the fact it takes me forever to do anything, so I prefer to leave the spot open for someone else.
That was some big downgrade. Did previous series and 1 year of dating not happen? Why the first chapter is about "you will surely get a boyfriend" and "but we are both girls"? That was pretty disappointing for first chapter of sequel.
But where does it come out?!
Cloaca.
That was adorable ♥
Let's say that, theoretically, somebody in this very thread wanted to do a Kickstarter for a yuri visual novel. What would you expect/want out of stretch goals and pledge tiers?
Ok, so I don't have a lot experience, but from what I saw/think. For stretch goals it usually depends on your original idea. Stretch goals is everything that adding to the game would be cool, but not necessary to achieve your vision. For example, let's say you don't plan having character voiced by default, but if you happened to get more money, you would hire people and do it. So basically you just decide what would you do with bonus money and organize it from stuff that would be great, but not necessary to just anything that could be added and it would improve/make game better, but not adding it won't really by that big of a issue. Another way to look at it, is to try to encourage people to give you more money. I guess this way it is a bit of manipulation and you still should ask outright for the minimum amount you need to make the game you want to make, but for example. You give a amount that is the bare minimum and you know is reachable, but you might add that if you get more money, you will add some really cool thing/feature that you do want to add to game, but you are not sure you will have budget for it. So if people will really want it to be added, they will try to rise more money to reach the stretch goal. I guess you could also somewhat combine those 2 approaches. For pledge tiers. The basic is getting a free copy of the game, not necessary from any amount though. Also stuff like free soundtrack, some wallpapers or other artbooks etc. Maybe some physical stuff like mousepad, plushies. From other stuff I saw, things like getting beta version to play and/or give feedback. Depending how you look at it, I see some giving people a creative impute. Like design a character/event/whatever and stuff like that. Some give you a lot restrictions, others seems to be pretty free about it. Also there are things like special mention in credits. For me personally, except for free copy of the game I usually don't really care about anything else, but that is usually because there is nothing interesting.
EDIT/ I guess that wasn't exactly what you asked about, but I agree with Anon. It is kinda hard to be specific without details about game itself.
last edited at Jan 12, 2018 2:57PM
What would you expect/want out of stretch goals and pledge tiers?
More yuri.
Seriously though I have no idea and I don't have time right now to even think to suggest something, so maybe later
Anyone have anymore information on this?
https://www.humblebundle.com/store/ladykiller-in-a-bind
It was being advertised on the front page of the humble site for a while too, which surprised me.
There is inescapable het sex in one of the routes which the game rationalises because "its ok they're mildly feminine in mannerisms"
They aren't even a trap.
Wasn't it changed to by optional after people start to bash game and making everything in their power to make nobody else to ever buy it again (aka people overreacted hard to this)? Creator even said it was never a intention to make it controversial or anything and changed it to please people, but from what I remember it didn't seem to quell the hate though.
last edited at Jan 10, 2018 12:09PM
I guess they are unnecessary if the main story is about Sumika and Ushio, but I never found any of the detours to be boring. The side plots were like concentric circles building up side characters, and when much of yuri is devoted to mostly being about the two main characters, the extended cast is welcome.
They're all so freaking awesome and I love all of them.
I wasn't necessarily saying they weren't well written or that I didn't like the side side cast, but they mainly served to weigh down the primary plot(just look at the number of times Sumika and Ushio almost get together, only for something to cut them off). It's a case of an author trying to do too much at once in the same work.
I think it was more they can't get together, because then manga would end. Author had to drag it out as long as possible to keep selling it (or was more likely forced by editorial stuff).
I'm just happy they're happy
Yuri or subtext?
Meh trash
Why do you feel that way? Elaborate, or you're basically just shitposting.
That is just how he is. Check his other posts if you want a taste.
Anyway. The complexities involved with being with someone for life is just one more thing I wish was explored more in yuri. rolls up sleeves probably gonna have to do it myself.
Totally agree with you. I see we have the same idea.
last edited at Jan 6, 2018 6:55AM
Nonetheless, canonity aside, it is well-done shoujo ai.
I don't see anything pedophilic about it though.
Someone who's rejected your confession multiple times over several years, suddenly realizing not only that they're into girls, but also that they're in love with you, is so incredibly unlikely that I can only see it as contrived.
I'm pretty sure it was explained that she also liked her back but was too afraid to act on her feelings, so she rejected her instead because being homo is wrong, but after MC tried hard enough she changed her mind. Whatever or not author had it in mind from the beginning is another story, but it wasn't that she suddenly realized it. And if you are going to say she wouldn't do it, that is exactly the same thing girl in Girl x Girl x Boy did.
In a way that's a little hypocritical and ironic - I can't think of a yuri critic who would ever bad-mouth Octave even though its main character is a lot like the one in Kimi Koi Limit.
I disagree. I can see what you mean, but 1 is a teenager that build her entire life around love that got rejected and she does nothing. She stalks her previous love, freeloads at some stranger place still not being able to forgot her love. She is depressed etc. all the time because her love. Entire plot and all her decision are based around the fact she was rejected and can't forget her love. While Octave is a manga about girl that had her dream crashed, feels useless and can't find her place in adult world. She is still trying to. She lives alone, she is Independent, she tries to live on and then she falls in love with person who is really complicated and she don't understand it. She needs love and acceptance, but at no point she base and depends with everything on love and her lover. Also yes, people complained about Octave's MC, but I think for different reasons (I didn't really have issue with her). So yes, I think they are completely different and might share some aspects with each other. (It was ages since I read both, so I don't really remember all the details that well)
Out of curiosity, what was the change in the first chapter? It's been so long since I read it that I had to re-read the chapter anyway and I don't know what the change was. :)
For some reason I flipped "tama" (occasionally) to "mata" (again) while reading kana, so instead of "Natsume-san too... don't you occasionally borrow notes from me?" I tl it to "Natsume-san too... won't you come borrow notes from me again". As I said it isn't that big of a difference, but it does change tone a bit. In both cases Yuuri accuses Natsume of using her, but in fixed line she is much more direct about it.
Otsu Hiyori is the best! Well, one of the best. Both of them are so chill about being badmouthed, though, that is not natural for a highschooler...
I could be dead wrong but isn't this a thing in Japanese culture? I was even told it's impolite to to outright say "no."
I'm not sure you quote right person, but yes, jps find it impolite to say straight no. They can still say no though, that is why they always start the respond with yes, like "yes, I won't do it" and stuff like that. Well basically they will usually try to find a subtle, gentle way to decline your offer. It become a common knowledge for a reason that if you ever have business with them and after giving your offer you will hear "I'll think about it", it means "There is no way I will agree to that". I don't think they are ok with being badmouthed though, especially since your reputation is usually a big deal in Japan.
This story happened and bumped her down.
Because everything that artist do must be gold otherwise they become trash.
After a "little" delay it is here.
Can anyone think of a manga with a line something along the lines of "you'll have to come to terms with your gay little heart some time" or something close to that? I read something the other day that made it pop into my head and I know it was a yuri manga but I can't actually remember anything more than that about whatever it was.
It kinda sounds like something that Takemiya Jin would write, but of course it is just a feeling.
Though I guess it has more to do with what you'd think would happen or what you'd like to happen.
Yea. That was my point with what people mean when they say realistic. That it feels realistic and natural. We are so used to all the rules of storytelling etc. that we forgot real life has no rules. Some real life stories come off as unrealistic, because of how messy and unpredictable life can be.
My main issue is how Tokujira was brushed off as a side character when she was the centre of the intrigue for the whole time, the driving force of the plot. I mean, I didn't feel the main issue/goal of the story was to resolve a love triangle but it felt like this in the end - hence why I feel upset/ripped off/whatever.
In your case I understand you have actual issues with how the story was told. That is why I never specifically said it was only reason that made you dislike the story. I was mostly talking in general, but I do think what we are used to see still affected your enjoyment in some way, especially since you were the one to mention how you had certain expectations based on series premise. I assume you assuming the series will go certain way is influenced by how we are expecting those kind of stories to go.
It's a matter of preference of course. I tend to prefer the beginning of a story or things that happened before to better understand what's happening now. Also, I prefer a story with struggles than fluffy stuff all the way. There is a sense of wish-fulfliment : it is somewhat liberating/more satisfying to see people succeed despite everything that hit them.
I didn't mean story shouldn't have any conflict at all. And usually I don't mind seeing how characters meet and fallen for each other. It can be pretty entertaining too. My point was more that vast majority focus only on that, and even when they reach the point where they could naturally shift to couples life, they still prefer to force drama upon them instead of focusing on their actual love life (which can still have struggles, that come from normal life and living as a couple, not from some outside forces). And once all dramas are finally solved, story ends so we never really get to see them as a couple. And my main point was because most stories are like that, we are more used to that kind of story structure. Main couple will have struggles, but in the end they will overcome it all and them being finally together and happy is our reward as a readers. That is why when story doesn't follow it and changes the love interest at some point, we feel betrayed because we are not used to that kind of development. I'm not saying this story done it well, just that it can be factor in feeling cheated.
I don't like when people complain about clichés and tropes. Especially when it comes to romance which is probably the most dried-out genre out there.
But that's not what is important to me, the delivery is.
I was talking in general. My issue isn't with using cliches at all. It is which one are used and how they are executed. My problem is there is few specific one people overuse to death, but the worse part they are all done exactly the same. I know everything was done before and nothing is really original (which only works when you bring it down to the simplest of descriptions), that is why which one you use and how you use them is so important. You can still create something original with right mixture of elements and putting some spins on them. My issue with most romance story is that they are stall. They don't try to innovate or be original at all. They simply use the same tested formulas that will guarantee them readers.
Sure you can have strong feelings, but they can change or fade with time more often than mangas are willing to admit.
They don't have to admit anything because they are stories, so they can tell anything they want, they don't have to stick to what would happen in real life. That was what my speech on realism was kind of about. That said, I don't mind stories with a more realistic approach and with less wish-fulfilment. However, giving up on a love and dealing with failures can be hard things to do, people probably don't want to deal with that kind of stuff when they read fiction (some sort of escapism). I don't mind because I love angst, I love dramas.
Yes, I get that. My point was again that too many stories take it so seriously and so little treat it more realistic. And I don't even mean how it really would be, but just don't idealize it so yuri damn much. Again, it is about story feeling believable to reader (me). I read enough of those which feel like some kind of fairytale, now I want to read something that feels more real, but still in story sense of real. And you seems to start mixing it up. Something being more believable, doesn't automatically make it not a wish-fulfillment (or maybe you use it in some different meaning). I guess I'm just tired of stories for kids and want to read something more development. I totally understand that sometimes you want to read something fluffy, but sometimes you want something realistic (like real life) or sometimes straight dramatic/angsty. It all depends on the mood you are in. I'm not saying all the stories have to be write this way. I just want more stories to actually try harder. Again, I understand they are stories and they are crafted certain way. I simply got enough of this specific way of crafting them and wish to see something different.
I'm talking about first impressions. Of course personality counts in the long run, but how can you be attracted to somebody because of their personality if you don't know them? That's why he went to see her and tried to know her, to see if it could work out, because she's beautiful (to him) and could look him in the eye without being afraid/feeling disgust.
His first impression was that he thought she finally looked right into his eyes without being scared by him. Her being pretty wasn't important. You make it sound like simply because she is pretty it automatically make her worth falling for. So what? If she was ugly there would be no point trying to see her personality, but because she is pretty it is worth giving a shot? No, he thought she was someone who can look past appearance. Don't you think it would be pretty ironic if his reason for initially going for her was because she is pretty?
No, love at first sight happens and is purely physical - how would it be bad/lowering the quality of anything? Beauty is important, there's just all different kind of beauty to be appreciated. What would be shallow is to continue a relationship only based on a physical link. Physical love is important and beautiful in itself, it's another kind of communication. I'm not talking about pure physical gratification but something with emotions and feelings.
I don't believe in love at first sight. I think this love is worthless and never true. Your look is only smart part of you. What is the most important is your personality. Yes, you can't see or fall for personality at first sight (ok, you could argue you could fall for something that person did making a great first impression on you), that is why you can't fall for someone at first sight. You need to know them first to fall for them. That is why I think love at first sight is useless, because in the end, it tells you almost nothing about the person. You just had a physical reaction to their body/beauty. You would have to have insane luck to find someone who is both exactly your type and also have personality you click with. What I meant, that is how most of romance story goes. They fallen for each other, because of their looks and got together because of it and it usually ends up at that. They never really develop their relationship further, all that matters to them is that their lover is beautiful. Sure, here they don't stop at this, but that is why when you are saying "but she is pretty, that is reason enough to fall for her!" it lowers the quality of the story to that lvl for me. I'm most likely jaded about it, because I'm ugly and I know for a fact, nobody will ever fall for me at first sight so I value personality much more than looks. If I had been pretty I'd probably had no issue with it and tell everyone that is just how it works.
Heck, the only thing Itsuki is thinking about Botan during their date in that last chapter is "OMIGOSH she's so cuuuuuute o(>ω<)o" - you can blame the author as well, if you want to.
I'm sure he meant it more in the "she acts adorable" thing (like what most people liking Botan thought).
Gee whiz! I guess I really should finish that doujin project I have before ever criticising another story. Better work on my baguette baking skills as well, lest I dare criticise the uncooked crap some big companies sell. Thanks!
And you again missed my point entirely. I wasn't saying you can't criticize the story without writing something better. I said, author failed to deliver what you expected, so if you want to read that story, your only option is to write it yourself. That is how I decided to start writing manga. Because I started to read next story and saw potential and my imagination ran wild, but then story went into different direction or didn't go the way I thought it will and felt disappointed. Or I read something which had good idea, but I felt like it's potential was totally wasted or poorly executed. Finding a work written by someone else that will fit exactly into what you want to see or go the exact way you want it to go is really hard, so at some point I realized, if I want to see those stories I want to read, the only options is to write them yourself. So I actually 100% feel your frustration and can sympathize with you. I didn't try to criticize you for wanting it to end differently. In fact I see your point. We don't know what really happened, if the reason it was rushed was because author decided to change the course or they actually planned it, but were rushed because series was axed and that is why there was so little development between Botan and Itsuki. So the way you approached it with accusing author of simply pandering to fans was pretty unfair.
Can't go wrong with that https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_cold_and_after_that
Also for something more steamy https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/relativity
Reality/believable stuff doesn't always make for interesting stories. It all depends on the writings, how things are played out and, most importantly, on the expectations of the reader (the one giving their opinion).
When people say believable/realistic, they don't always mean it would 100% happen in real life. There is still a lot things that are crafted specifically so the story will flow and reader will enjoy it, even if they would never happen in real life. Good author will make it so reader won't notice too much coincidences etc. because they enjoy the story, drama etc. too much to really focus on that. What they usually mean is that it feels real. That story follows the logical progression you can understand and follow (or sometimes the story is simply straight realistic about things it decapitates). Manga cuts most of mundane, boring and irrelevant stuff. Best example are dialogues which irl usually are a 1 huge mess, but in manga when they are too disjoined or disorganized, people complain it drags, there is too much text etc.. On the other side, people underestimated how random and unpredictable life can sometimes be. Not everything is always set up and follow perfect path. Weird coincidences and random tragedies do occur sometimes. So in the end, it is all about how much reader can buy into the work author presents.
The thing is, when I first started reading I was expecting a story about Tokujira finally getting over her fear of men and Itsuki finally having his feelings for her requited despite all the struggles they would went through - or, during the event of the story, Tokujira finding some kind of solace.
I think that is the issue, you had certain expectations and that story didn't meet them hence you are upset. That is not necessary your fault though. I feel like a lot of it steams from the way most mangas, especially romance ones, work. We are taught to believe the first character MC fails in love with will be the one they end up with. Hell most of the time the whole story is only about them getting together. As if that was the most interesting thing about love. That is why most romance stories drag forever, adding next struggles and prolonging the main couple from ending up together, because they second they do, the series will end. There are often times when they actually go on after that point, but then the other problem kicks in. Instead of actually writing about their love for each other and struggles with being a couple (or their lovely dovely fluffy love live, I wouldn't mind that too), author usually comes up with (or is forced to) with some new drama, usually totally forced (look my first paragraph), that threaten the couples existence. Parents don't approve, someone blackmails one of them to break up, new person shows up and tries to break them apart, there is some asinine reason why they can't be together etc. Only after they overcome all that (so when it got axed, because series popularity drops, cos let's be honest nobody tries to drag their series as long as possible, unless they want money or they simply have no idea what to do with it) they can be finally together and then series ends. And why readers care? Because they like the main couple and want them to be together. We were taught that there will always be issues, but once they overcome them all, they will be together. That is how it goes. That is why everytime the series actually has balls and don't go this cliche way, we feel as if we were tricked. That is not what we were promised! They main couple has to get together! And that is a big issue. With manga industry in general. Instead of writing good stories, there is too much focus on doing what will sell, on going with proven formulas people will like. I'm not saying every series who does it is bad, or that whenever a series does it it is a good idea. I'm simply tired of everyone following the same safe and tested cliches and people eating it up, that nobody actually tries to break them, and of course usually when they do, they work doesn't sell.
[...] resulting in countless agonizing love triangle plots where you just KNOW the most wonderful characters have no chance of winning.
Well, who's to say which is the most wonderful character? That's what makes love triangle interesting both in and out of the story if they're done well.
I never read any good love triangle. In fact I hate them exactly because they are the worse cliche ever. They 99% of the time are used only for creating drama and making people wonder who the MC will end up with. And the worse fact is, we always know how they will end up with. Because as I said, we are taught the first person they fallen for, will be the one, that is why love triangles never work, because we already know who we were promised to get. And why they are so freaking painful to read, because we know in the end other person had never chance to begin with. Especially when we get rival suddenly introduced in middle of they story (or as I mentioned before, once couple actually got together). If there will be ever a good love triangle story, then I won't read it either way, because it is shitty scenario in the first place, where no matter what (unless poly option) someone will get hurt and if you actually make all 3 characters likable, then it hurts twice as much.
Because the feelings and memories you experienced as a kid are the most reliable things to base your entire life around.
I know this was supposed to be sarcastic or something, but I think this is closer to reality than what you'd like/think. It's not something we do consciously, but almost everything we do and how we act is probably based on or influenced by what happened during our childhood (education, traumas, people looking for one of their parents in their love partner, etc.), so in the end... it may be more realistic than what you let on - but I agree, it's not reliable.
I was trying really hard to phrase it in a way nobody can grip about it, but as usually someone did. I'm fully aware of it, but as you said yourself, it is mostly stuff we learn subconsciously. But even if, I was specifically talking about your experiences with love. How many times kids would say they will marry each other when they will grow up, or hell, they would say it to adults or older teens/young adults? Does anyone ever take it seriously? No, because it is just kid talking. They got no clue what they are talking about. In fact only in manga those kind of promises are actually ultra serious and people get buthurt over forgetting about them. In fact most of the time when you grow up you either forgot about it yourself or you are totally embarrassed everytime someone does bring it up. I'm hard pressed to believe anyone takes their first love or dating or whatever when they were little kid too seriously or even remember about it. And yet mangas
usually put them on pedestal. Your first love shape your entire life. The person you first fallen in love is basically your fate and you have to end up with them. In general this whole issue seems to come from the fact, that so many mangas idealize the first love and follow the rule of person who fallen for someone first win. Sure you can have strong feelings, but they can change or fade with time more often than mangas are willing to admit.
He assumed she didn't care about how he looked, but she did.
There could be more ridiculous reasons to be interested in/falling in love with an other individual, also Tokujira is kind of (really) beautiful from what it is said about her and the numerous confessions or even her title.
It is still true his first impression turned out to be wrong, and it did affect his perception of her. She wasn't the person he thought she was and he admitted it (and also got hurt over her being no different than rest). About looks, don't even go there. That is like the reason they like each other for vast majority of romance mangas "He/she is so handsome/pretty, I'm getting hard/wet". Sure, the look is what we see first, but in the long run the personality is what matters and it seems not much manga actually bother to acknowledge it. Even if he considered her pretty, once he got to know her, he realized they had no chemistry. Isn't that kinda more important? By saying he still totally could fall for her because she was pretty, you are lowering the quality of this story significantly.
As I said, it all has to do with expectations. Why not make him see that despite her fear of men, despite her coldness towards him, she was deserving of those sentiment after all, heck, he spent the entire story trying to seduce her, through a proxy admittedly. And then when he finally succeeded, she could have as well realised he was somebody she could appreciate or even love, which she did; the important points being how it would have happened and how they would've gone past those troubles to help Tokujira go past her fear of men, finally opening herself to the world and for them to end up together or not, it could have ended non romantically in the end, even without Botan in the equation.
Well, it simply seems like author failed to write the story you wanted to read. You should write the better version yourself then.
Anyone want to quality check stuff for me?
I personally feel like ending with Botan was a bit of an asspull to please fans who overwhelmingly wanted her over the main girl. Feels like the train got diverted halfway through. I like Botan a lot too, don't get me wrong, I just feel like we at some point crossed into an alternate universe and switched love interests and it feels...off.
Yea because feelings are set in stone. It's not like they can change or fade over time. The first person you fall in love is the one you will end up with no matter what because that is how love works. Not like you could find someone else, especially if your love interest doesn't really interact with you or show any interest (or even know you exist).
It's sad that so many manga and anime writers legitimately believe what you just wrote, resulting in countless agonizing love triangle plots where you just KNOW the most wonderful characters have no chance of winning.
Don't even get me started on ones where mc falls in love when they are kid because someone was kind to them or some similar flimsy bs and it made them fall in love so hard with them they will never forgot the feeling. They are the only one they will ever love and of course when they happen to find them 10 or so years later they totally still love them and they just must get together with them because it is fate! Because the feelings and memories you experienced as a kid are the most reliable things to base your entire life around.
I personally feel like ending with Botan was a bit of an asspull to please fans who overwhelmingly wanted her over the main girl. Feels like the train got diverted halfway through. I like Botan a lot too, don't get me wrong, I just feel like we at some point crossed into an alternate universe and switched love interests and it feels...off.
Yea because feelings are set in stone. It's not like they can change or fade over time. The first person you fall in love is the one you will end up with no matter what because that is how love works. Not like you could find someone else, especially if your love interest doesn't really interact with you or show any interest (or even know you exist).