Forum › Posts by Sol Falling
I think it's worthwhilie to keep doujins and official anthologies separate. However from a user perspective it is indeed somewhat counterintuitive that doujin and anthology categories are completed unrelated to each other. I wouldn't say this is just a doujin and anthology issue though, because you can't access a series' doujin or anthology pages from even the main series page either. Although this is just my opinion, what I would suggest is more direct linking between related categories rather than any merging of two together.
The alt account is the guy who posted after you, below
I'm aware. He's using several. And if you know this is the kind of person who makes alternate accounts and pretends to be multiple people, I can't fathom why you're still posting replies in an off-topic discussion with them.
My bad. I tend to be optimistic about the possibility of convincing people through logic. I'll submit to cutting things off here.
Holy god, people here cling so desperately to "subjectivity" as if it's some kind of safety net that prevents anything from being bad. Yes, not everything ever written is good. Much like this.
The reason people here appreciate 'subjectivity' is because it is the basis of civil discourse, and arguments in good faith. You don't start a legitimate discussion trying to communicate with anybody assuming that you (and only you) are correct. Given that this is a discussion board, the point is indeed civil exchanges of information. Trying to force black and white absolute statements only fosters a pointless and retarded atmosphere of divisiveness.
You seem to think effort alone warrants praise; let me drop some truth on you. It doesn't. No matter how much work you put into something unless other consider it good, it's worthless. How people view you is what matters. Just because mommy says you're special doesn't mean you are. In the real world work must yield positive results, not just results.
You're trying to sound pretty edgy here but the thing is that "how people view you" is an aggregate, not one single person's opinion. Regardless of how worthless you think a piece of work happens to be your opinion alone will never be definitive (and mind you, neither is it a matter of 'majority rules' democracy).
Those scenarios don't actually exist outside of headcanon. They're called crack ships for a reason, because there is nothing to support them. Which is why they are empty and shallow.
Actual physical yuri doesn't exist outside of headcanon (in Madoka's case, anyway). "Headcanon" is the point of doujins. There are certain people who take the attitude of "I never read doujins; only original works", but this not being you, can't you see that your point is pure hypocrisy?
And what'd you say would also be wrong, like everything else you've said. Especially because you started with this Kyouko, what ever this Kyouko does is irrelevant to whether she's out of character or not. The real Kyouko stands up for what she wants, and fights for it. Homura on the other is out character simply by not being obsessed with Madoka, but that's not the only thing that's wrong. Here's she's just being evil for the sake of it with no real reason, when in the series/movies it has a purpose.
In the doujin Homura's motivation was described as despair over ever achieving her happiness with Madoka, and indulging with Sayaka for the sake of physical comfort. Although problematic for the sake of the happy ending most Madoka fans are wishing for, given the vagueness of Homura's state of mind after becoming Akuma Homura this is not in fact an impossible scenario. When it comes down to it, the characterization in this doujin is fully within the standard of variation people usually allow for doujinshi. Hate the doujin all you like, but your calls of OOC really have nothing to do with it.
Who fucking cares about your standard though. That's not 'objective' knowledge. You're gonna try to set up an 'objective' argument about every frickin' story you come across? Even if you do feel some insistent need to let out your negative feelings about a work you come across, it's easier and more conducive to actual discussion if you frame things as "your opinion".
It didn't "get my panties" in a bunch, I was just making note of your ignorance. And lack of logic, the term crack is very common. And I regret to inform you that not everything is subjective. A work of anything can be flat out bad, no exceptions, and that is the case here. This is bad, OOC, and might as well not even be a doujin of said characters.
Who cares? You are not the arbiter of what type of doujin can be made or translated. So the only type of DokiDoki doujinshi you want to see is ManaRitsu, ManaRegina, ManaMakoto, or ManaAguri? Your insistence that doujins can never be OOC is both retarded and completely facetious.
@Troid
Nah, I think this is just the spillover from some controversy over on Yuri-ism's website. The alt account is the guy who posted after you, below.
@Sol Falling
Can you really do nothing but spew long winded and ultimately pointless arguments? Stop trying to Hero of Justice over the internet. Guess what, this is bad, so there's nothing wrong with people expressing dislike for it. Or are comments only for nonsensical gushing?
Pfft, if you're gonna call this doujin the standard, there is a ton of "bad" stuff on this site. Are you gonna go and shitpost about every one of them? Dynasty hasn't got a specific posting policy but realize that the discussion structure causes commenting to result in two promotional functions: upping the post count associated with a thread, and bumping it to the top of the discussion board. Naturally then it's more constructive to post about things you actually like or can contribute knowledge towards. If you can't help your autistic inclination to explicitly label everything you don't like as "bad", it sounds more like you're the one with some sort of retarded Internet Hero complex.
Doujinshi inherently involves a degree of artistic freedom on the part of the creator. That can be a good thing or a bad thing, but you can't honestly be surprised that Yuri-ism, as a group which focuses on doujin, is gonna take a position of impartiality when it comes to things inherently dependent on artists' creative freedom such as pairings or yuri in subtext series.
For all you know, there might be genuine fans of MakotoxRikka out there. At the least, it is clear that the artist of this doujin is -- which could not consist of a reason to automatically call them a "bad fan" (of DokiDoki Precure), fyi. Although ManaRitsu is my own preference, the high degree of focus on Mana with other characters could have naturally lead this artist to come to prefer Rikka with another character. Having tried to express MakoRitsu's appeal via doujin, and Yuri-ism having picked it up for quality of art or other factors, where's the harm? All your vehement rejection and insistence that 'crack is trash' only smells of rabid and ungrateful ship fanatacism.
I thought Yuri-ism had made clear, via their policy statement and communication in comments quite a long time ago, that they had an open-minded perspective regarding shipping and appreciated recommendations for alternative pairings, so long as the content was high quality. Though it's been a while since I visited their site regularly, with posters here admitting to this degree of rudeness and close-mindedness I'm forced to wonder about the state of their commenter-base; if it has really devolved so unfortunately that people think this sort of attitude is acceptable.
Much as I was repulsed seeing Sakaki's face pop up again, I was pleasantly surprised by how quickly he was shoved out of the picture the first time around so I definitely feel it is a loss to be stuck here without a conclusion. I agree that the author's use of timeskips brought an interesting long term perspective to the story. All in all I did enjoy the story so I'm sad to see it go. Regardless, thanks to Binbougami scans for making it possible for us to read it.
Even with that (which I at least already knew about) the story seems oddly sparse. As if there's storytelling that should have been done but were just skipped over.
I think they were going for a surreal style because you normally wouldn't believe somebody just claiming to be Kaguya-hime. Regardless I also liked it. Although the end really does push the subtext angle with Miyabi not realizing what Neko's feelings were.
Strictly minimally, Sakura Trick is a 4koma comedy series about kissing. There is nothing definitively SoL about any of that.
At best, you could probably call the segments relating to Yuzu and Kaede SoL, because they follow the standard subtext/one-sided crush formula and are mostly reserved for comedy shenanigans. However, both Yuu x Haruka and Kotone x Shizuku segments are strictly romance, with the comedy even toned down on Kotone x Shizuku's side for a bit more drama.
You'll really have to point out for me where lighthearted yuri with actual relationship development/kissing is such a common occurrence. Even on Dynasty you'll be hard pressed to find similar series. Most long-running series which ever actually get somewhere will engage in at least a moderate helping of drama, or spend a long time on pre-relationship buildup before the couple ever actually gets together. The only really comparable series I can think of in tone to Sakura Trick is Fu-Fu, or Kase-san as sort of a far candidate given most of its scanlated material is still of the pre-dating stage.
It is pretty demeaning to call all of the yuri content in Sakura Trick "pandering" when there's no reason to suspect the mangaka of not being serious and the yuri is, in fact, the main point of the manga (not SoL). For one thing considering that Tachi got her start doing yuri K-On doujins there's no reason not to think she is a serious yuri mangaka. I also completely fail to see how anyone could come to the conclusion that the characters in Sakura Trick are lacking in emotional substance. Even in spite of the comedic tone or misunderstandings, it is absolutely clear beyond any question that Yuu and Haruka genuinely love each other, and this is growing by the day.
People will have their own tastes for things like comedy, but I maintain that any "yuri" fan who believes that the yuri in Sakura Trick is ungenuine or "just pandering" is spewing complete bullshit. It's a proper yuri series like any of the others out there.
last edited at Mar 1, 2014 4:26AM
You bet. If you ask me Sakura Trick probably couldn't even be called a SoL series so to me your "generic" comment is totally off-base and even non-sensical. As far as Yuu and Haruka's relationship goes, the emphasis and specificity of the scenes/stoytelling about them is so focused that it goes into straight up romance territory, not SoL. And if you can't get into the awesome emotional substance behind those scenes (particularly in a few of the later manga chapters after steady development, like some of the ones the anime has covered recently) I can only say you're missing out. Sakura Trick has more than exceeded my expectations in creating a yuri couple whose cuteness and romanticism competes with the very best of the best. I have seen plenty of "yuri" fans come out and talk like Sakura Trick is 'cheap' or somehow just empty fanservice but as far as actual yuri content goes, they couldn't be more wrong.
Hnnnnggh man Shikieiki is adorable. I've been waiting for a good Shikieiki story, this was fucking awesome. I probably wouldn't like it if Yukari were canonically responsible for Shiki gaining her position but as a doujin the setting/twist for this is really imaginative and great. The fundamental idea itself of good and evil being forgotten things that can only exist in Gensoukyou is clever and charming as hell.
Loved this, I think this author is going straight to my favourites.
Gotta respect Tohonifun's stuff. They really embody the spirit of Touhou doujin. This was a pretty damned amazing read, even if I wasn't quite satisfied with the ending/epilogue. To be able to spend 184 pages just digging into the heart of Reimu's character is an incredible blessing as a fan.
Also, just a minor note on the afterword, but damn, this mangaka gets it. Maybe it's because it also took me like a year after I got into Touhou to realize it but I just love it when I see others realizing how cute Patchouli is. It's like an awakening or something, from initially just one of the sub-inhabitants of the Koumakan to suddenly one of the best girls of the series. But anyway, that doesn't have much to do with the story this time so anyway, good stuff.
You can also grab it from Kinokuniya and Honto, as linked on Comet Scans' blog.
Ah, I'm not in the US so I've never looked into Kinokuniya (if they happen to deliver to Canada though, I guess I might start using them). I looked into the Honto link as well, but didn't find a way past their Japanese address screen. I left a request for clarification about ordering from Honto on Comet Scan's site just now.
last edited at Feb 22, 2014 7:32PM
Really looking forward to the next chapter. Everywhere I read people seem to be expecting some sort of drama when Kaede and Akina's old friends meet. It would be a bit of a downer so I'm hoping it won't happen, but honestly I didn't even think that Akina might hurt Kaede via denying her otakudom until people suggested it. Hopefully it'll be a lighthearted chapter like I originally expected.
As for purchasing the manga, I only just got started buying raws with the Sakura Trick volumes a couple weeks ago; however, I'm thinking of making the plunge (not like there's a chance of this series getting licensed, I think). Probably I should look into some other yuri series in order to offset Amazon's shipping costs; Shinozaki-san not being available on other JP import sites is a bit unfortunate.
In specific regards to the "is or is not this yuri" argument, I just want to note that this oneshot was specifically published in Hirari magazine. More explicitly, the name is, "Pure Yuri Anthology Hirari" magazine. Now, I guess some people might be unhappy with simply labelling everything coming from a "yuri" magazine as yuri, but the main idea is that as for a publication from a company specifically trying to sell to an audience which likes yuri, the editors of Hirari chose this work as something fit to sell to their readers. To put it another way: even if this work doesn't really match up to your own personal standards of yuri, nonetheless, yuri fans are still the most likely group to gain some enjoyment from reading this manga (versus, say, "slice of life" or "drama" fans, neither of which specifically compose a large portion of this website's readers anyway).
It might be one thing if tags are slightly inaccurate, but I think another thing to consider is simply what effect those tags will have on who decides to read a chapter. Complaining that a work "isn't yuri" might be fine, the right thing to do, perhaps. However, if you are gonna complain, I would personally say it's more important to try to think of a way to communicate the chapter's content in a way that would still appeal to the people who'd like it most.
edit:
Well, I think it doesn't need that much argument. If people don't like "yuri", I would vote for "step-sisters" as fine. If "subtext" has actually become a thing on the reader, maybe that as well.
last edited at Feb 15, 2014 12:09AM
And there goes the tag, I guess? Seems like people 'round here really aren't fond of exercising their goggles. Personally, I'd leave at least some indication of yuri-relatedness in there ("step-sisters", maybe? "slice of life" and "drama" are really so generic. Sure, "sister" is in the title, but what about tag search?) but hey, I guess it's whatever in the end.
As for the chapter itself, it really was fucking moe how the two girls were so happy to become sisters. That's romanticism right there, y'know? If you ask me. This shit was super cute.
Seems to be a page ordering issue with Centaur's Worries ch. 44. Didn't see it mentioned anywhere so I thought I'd bring it up.
You typing dumb shit and pretending that empty, shallow, long winded speeches have ever 'proven' anything proves what exactly?
Sorry, joke was too easy to pass up. Now a mod should clean this thread.
Oh, I think I've thoroughly proven the emptiness of your arguments in this thread. You can cry "lalala I can't hear you" all you like, but that does nothing to change the fact that you never got past the single counterpoint I made two pages ago. I haven't needed to "prove" anything for a long time now, just been using these posts to expose you for a hypocritical shitposter.
You realize its's hilarious watching you cry about being tired of the discussion or "cleaning up the thread" when here you are, a reply after each post just like clockwork? More importantly, none of them remotely attempting to answer the hooks addressing the actual argument, simply evasive shitposting trying to protect the pathetic image of your ego. You realize you've claimed to be "done" with this thread at least 5 times now? Since you've made it blatantly clear that you're not capable of holding civil or reasoned conversation, why don't you run along now and keep your promise to stay away.
The fact you feel the need to at least double the amount I type with each reply kind of proves what you're doing. And as I've said, there has been more than enough said to disprove your whole argument. But it means nothing because you'll argue an irrelevant semantic ad nauseam.
And I grow bored of you talking in circles, so I'm done. This thread could use some cleaning.
You typing dumb shit and pretending that one-liners have ever 'proven' anything proves what exactly? The shortness of your replies doesn't show your correctness, it shows the lack of substance behind everything you say. Your grasp of "logic" is utterly pathetic and nothing you've said in this thread could be called more than posturing. Did you know why proofs, textbooks, or research papers are more than two lines long? Because they actually want to convince somebody of something.