I don't care about labels but I do feel their relationship is pretty platonic. I think Sakurako might like to take things further but Kazumi has drawn a like she doesn't want to cross and Sakurako respects that. That makes for an interesting dynamic but it's kind of a shame too. I'd like to see their relationship develop further. I don't think it's gonna happen though.

last edited at Apr 29, 2020 12:04PM

The character they killed off (Haruka) is a new character. She didn't exist in the original one-shot. The childhood friend in the original was Youko, which is the other main character in this new series. Basically, what they changed is that Youko went from being a childhood friend to being a senpai. But Youko and Yorino still end up as partners just like in the one-shot, so the end result didn't change.

I get what you're saying, but from a relational point of view it is actually Youko that is the new character. That might have been the name of the other lead in the original, but if you look at personality, history, and relationship to Yorino it is Haruka that was established in the original.

We don't know anything about her personality since Youko didn't get any focus yet. All they changed is the relationship they have, but for all we know, everything else is the same. Even her looks are the same except for the glasses.

last edited at Apr 21, 2020 9:14PM

Kinda sad Ogino changed it in that way, but after all it's still Ogino Jun in action. I look forward to next chapters!

Yeah, I don't like that change either. The original is still my preference for now, but perhaps this set-up will work better for an ongoing series, so I'll keep up with it and hope it stays interesting.

Yep, exactly. I wonder if introducing new characters, instead of using old ones would work better? Maybe Ogino wanted to use original setting as base and build something new on top of that?
Since Gamma is one of my all time favorites here, I'll just wait for more story :)

The character they killed off (Haruka) is a new character. She didn't exist in the original one-shot. The childhood friend in the original was Youko, which is the other main character in this new series. Basically, what they changed is that Youko went from being a childhood friend to being a senpai. But Youko and Yorino still end up as partners just like in the one-shot, so the end result didn't change.

last edited at Apr 21, 2020 8:48PM

Let's see here... how many problems are there with this... First, the kids wouldn't be the same kids if Rin married the guy instead of A-Chan! They would be genetically RIN'S children and not A-CHAN'S children, so they would be DIFFERENT children... you all understand that concept, right?

The one who doesn't understand is you. The point is that Rin has no right to be asking A-chan to do this for her. It's unfair and messed up.
If she wants the kids, she should fuck the guy herself. If the kids aren't the same, tough luck for her, but it's a pretty shitty move to force A-chan to do it for her. It's freaking selfish.

Also, despite what A-Chan is saying at the point where she is stressed beyond belief, she DID love her children.

That's your headcanon. A-chan made herself clear. She didn't love the dude, and wasn't all that interested in her kids either.

Before he died, she was happily raising her children and loved them.

Actually, Koharu's opinion of A-chan was pretty negative since the moment she met Rin, so it's heavily implied A-chan was always a neglectful mother.

Clearly we don't see eye to eye and you're entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion the ending was irredeemable garbage.

last edited at Apr 11, 2020 1:30AM

So when Rin started going on about those kids, I was seriously expecting A-chan to respond in the same way.
I am legit shook that she actually went along with marrying that dude and having those kids lol

She did it for Rin. Rin basically took advantage of A-chan's love. She should have marry the dude herself if she wanted kids.

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 8:37PM

Well, Rin did become these kids guardians, so it's not really like she shouldn't have a say in this.

Then she should marry the dude herself and have kids of her own.

Why is Rin's concern for these kids seen as selfish by you?

Because it's not her choice. She's not the one fucking a dude she doesn't love. Again, if she cares so much she should marry him herself.

They're living beings

No, they're just a possibility. They wouldn't exist if A-chan wasn't forced into this mess (Koharu aside).

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 7:54PM

this is a good end because A-chan as a parent finally stops neglecting her children

There would be no problem if the kids didn't exist in the first place.

Well, I'd already read the raw, but the translation doesn't change my option. The ending is garbage.

Doesn't A-chan at least care about Haruhi and Hinata?

She says she only cares about Rin. Rin doesn't agree but I don't see any reason why we should doubt A-chan. Rin is biased after all.

Rin does have a point about them. They will never be born unless they go down the same path as before and they do deserve their chance at living.

They were A-chan's kids. It shouldn't be up to Rin to decide what to do with them. Besides, after all she went through, there's no reason A-chan should be forced into living a life she doesn't want just because Rin got emotionally invested with the kids. I agree with snowangel526, Rin is fucking selfish.

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 7:37PM

A-chan obviously cared for him enough to be able to have two kids with him the first time they were together and, based on the knowledge from the last timeline where she wasn't with him and Rin was with her coworker and jumped to her death, A-Chan shouldn't feel like his death was her fault anymore. Not to mention that by marrying him she, and Rin, can provide a home for Koharu instead of leaving her with no family when her father dies. Knowing that Rin dies in all of the scenarios where she and A-Chan get together when Rin is still in school and Koharu ends up an orphan in the scenario where A-Chan doesn't marry her father, the only responsible thing to do, since Rin at least loves Koharu (and I presume A-Chan does as well, despite her being thoroughly messed up by her obsession with Rin) is to have A-Chan marry the guy and provide the family Koharu needs. Knowledge of the future results in responsibility beyond personal feelings and A-Chan is doing it for her love of Rin in the long run, knowing that she is also helping the guy be happy in the last few years of his life. Not a problem...

No, there are a lot of problems. To start with, A-chan seriously doesn't love the guy. She doesn't want to do any of that shit. But at this point Rin is more invested on her pseudo-daughters than in A-chan and forces the issue till A-chan complies. And A-chan does so just because she wants to make Rin happy. Think what you will but that's totally messed up.

last edited at Apr 10, 2020 11:40AM

I was curious so I went and read the raw. I've gotta say the ending is all kinds of fucking up. Rin talks A-chan into going back to the past all over again and marry the dude again, so that after he dies Rin can get her dream family (A-chan as wife + three daughters). That's so messed up. A-chan doesn't even love the dude and Rin is forcing her to marry him just so she can get his kids for herself after he dies. Rin's fucking crazy.

@BV "While Sayaka's hair was affected by the shading, it wasn't really that much of a change."

Haru's hair gets more effected by the blue color cast because her hair is darker than Sayaka's and the color (orange) is complementary to blue.

In any case, this matter is settled already. The last novel was published with the original colors for Haru's hair, so that color is canon now. End of the story.

last edited at Mar 18, 2020 9:28PM

@BugDevil "All recent artworks I've seen had a far darker shade than the one from the original hair color."

I take it you're talking about fanart. Some people probably thought her hair color changed just like you and started drawing her like that. They're wrong though.

"I'm just saying, seems like a course correction to me."

And I'm saying you're wrong. If that was the case the cover for the novel would have been changed too. The novel is her canon color after all.

"And it doesn't affect Sayaka's hair at all?"

It did affect Sayaka's hair too. It's clearly darker and more red-ish looking than her real hair color. Just compare the cover for novel 3 which shows canon colors for both Sayaka and Haru to that picture. The difference is clear for both Haru AND Sayaka.

@BugDevil

Nakatani didn't change Haru's hair color. The picture you're talking about has a blue lighting that makes Haru's hair look darker and more red, but that's just an effect of the lighting. Haru's canon hair is still orange like in this picture. You can tell because the cover of novel 3 has Haru with orange hair.

What if she doesn't want a poly ending.

I mean, she know that her relation will be difficult since they can't suck life force from each other so they had to come up with a solution, either having Fuu in the middle or being an open couple and let each others suck life force from other girls.

Just because they need to suck energy from other girls, that doesn't mean their relationship is open. It would be open if they were dating other girls. Sucking energy is just sucking energy. Humans are just food.

They still had to be very clingy to the others girls in order to suck energy and judgin by Konomi habits, it's not just by hugging and handholding.

That doesn't matter. Konomi made it very clear that until she had sex with Yukiko, she never even thought about sex as a way to express love but merely something she does to suck energy. It's probably the same with Yukiko and all her handholding and hugging with Yuu. Most likely she doesn't feel anything about it because she never thought about Yuu as anything but convenient food. Basically, humans are just food to them, not potential romantic partners.

last edited at Feb 14, 2020 8:51PM

What if she doesn't want a poly ending.

I mean, she know that her relation will be difficult since they can't suck life force from each other so they had to come up with a solution, either having Fuu in the middle or being an open couple and let each others suck life force from other girls.

Just because they need to suck energy from other girls, that doesn't mean their relationship is open. It would be open if they were dating other girls. Sucking energy is just sucking energy. Humans are just food.

last edited at Feb 14, 2020 8:29PM

As for the blame game, why hasn't anyone noted the power dynamic of the situation? Not only did Sumire continue to sexually assault a drunk woman after being told to stop, but she is also paying sponsorship money to that woman, putting her in a position of power over her. Liz's manager failed to be there to protect her client for the day, which put Sumire in the position to be the person in charge of everything, from the make-over to where they went to eat, and the sexual harassment started during the makeover.

Yes, Liz fucked up, big time! She should have asked to be taken home right after the shoot, regardless of how impolite that is and how against standard practices in the industry it is. But if she didn't already know that Sumire was trying to get her in bed, she's an idiot. The fact that Liz was drunk, and knew she was too drunk, believe it or not, actually DOES (scientifically) make a difference. A person who is drunk is not able to give consent and decision making is impacted in ways that can lead people to do things they never would do sober. People who say that being drunk makes you your more honest self are just wrong. The fact that she said no and they somehow ended up in bed anyway and she was drunk, and Sumire is in a power position over her, places this in the rape category in my opinion.

Liz wasn't so drunk that she couldn't tell what was going on. She said "let go" once but then Senpai licked her ear and Liz consented. That's how they got to the hotel room. Senpai didn't drag a heavily drunk Liz there. Liz went there on her own accord. But why did Liz consent? Because getting her ear licked is her weak point, her switch, as established in previous chapters, and she still had lingering feelings for Senpai anyway (that was pretty clear in chapter 11).

Let's not try to brush this off as some sort of rape-ish situation so that Liz doesn't have to take responsibility. Liz did what she wanted. No one forced her to anything.

I doubt that Liz will feel that way after the fact, and, actually, that is accurate for the situation as well. Many women in a similar situation would feel guilt as opposed to feeling victimized. When you consider that Liz clearly didn't figured out that Sumire is a manipulator back when they were in school, it's not surprising that she's slow to figure it out now.

She didn't feel like a victim because she's not a victim. She felt bad for betraying Maki. The main issue here is not Senpai. She's just a plot decide to spark things up. The problem has always been Liz herself, her inability to move on from the past, and taking her relationship with Maki for granted. Hopefully this is a turning point for her and she will start to cherish their relationship more from now on, and finally let go of the past.

last edited at Feb 13, 2020 8:33PM

I haven't read the latest chapter, and I'm too afraid to

I'd say you're probably better off waiting until next chapter and reading both back to back, since this one ends in a pretty depressing note and sort of a cliffhanger.

^ That's very very Western.
Asians, and Japanese in particular, just don't fancy that stuff.

Not really. There are tons of manga with that kind of stuff.

last edited at Feb 11, 2020 9:39PM

I feel so bad for Maki and angry at Liz. She managed to hurt Maki whenever she remembers her senpai but can't do anything bad to the senpai who did the hurting, even did ecchi stuff with her! Damn, But I'm also looking forward to how this will turn out, hopefully it will be in favor of the mc.

Imho it's a given Maki will get Liz in the end... but she will have to work hard to win her prize. The authors intend us to look at Liz as a victim, who loved her sempai, was betrayed and scarred, but still has feelings for her even tho she now realizes that she's a bad person. (And how is it possible that she doesn't hate her, after all the cruels things she did? Well, it's just like that. "The heart has its reasons that reason does not know." - Pascal) Maki's role in this story is that of the knight in shining armor. No matter what Liz does to her, she somehow senses that Liz is not to blame... and she will have to fight to free her from her inner demons and sempai's clutches.

I totally disagree with that. Like I said in my previous post, Senpai is totally messed up but Liz is 100% responsible for her actions. If this manga is to have a happy ending with Maki and Liz being together at the end, the one who has to make the effort to make that happen is Liz rather than Maki. Maki already put a lot of effort into making their relationship work but Liz took it for granted, crap all over it, and ultimately cheat on Maki despite everything Maki did. Now it's Liz who has to make amends and work hard to keep that relationship from getting destroyed by her stupidity.

I see chapter 12 as a turning point for Liz. She cried at the end and realized she fucked up royally. Now she should be able to see what's really important in her life and work towards that. But it's not gonna be easy. She's gotta start by being honest with Maki and tell her what she did before Maki finds out from someone else. And Maki might be very kind but she's not a saint. She will probably want to break up, which is just fine. For their relationship to work Maki also has to stop being so submissive. It should be up to Liz to make amends and win Maki over again. If up to chapter 12 the manga was about Maki chasing after Liz and trying to get her attention, after chapter 12 it will most likely turn into Liz chasing after Maki. Because it's Liz who's gotta earn her happy ending.

last edited at Feb 12, 2020 5:01AM

Senpai is pretty messed up but, in a way all she did was proving her point that relationships between girls don't last. Liz cheated on Maki and potentially ruined their relationship all on her own. Senpai just gave her a little push, but Liz is the sole responsible for her actions. She can't blame anyone but herself for this.

The irony is that Liz had built her whole life and professional career around the idea of proving Senpai wrong, but in the end she ended up proving her right anyway. This basically invalidates every single thing Liz has done since they broke up in high school. Talk about failing at life, Liz-chan.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 10:53PM

Maybe we'll get a Maki/Sumire sex scene instead.

hopefully it will be in favor of the mc.

Rather than that, I just hope Maki finds out about the cheating and dumps Liz. It'd be pretty messed up if the plot forces Maki to be with someone who cheated on her.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 5:13PM

You are ardently supporting polyphobic people, homophobic people, and, in general, all majority groups who engage in minority discrimination... and, afaict, you don't even realize what you're doing.

You're making no sense. Just because I'm pretty familiarized with how the average Japanese think doesn't mean I support that way of thinking.

Nene is right. Brush up on Logic 101. It will do you good.

You probably should brush up your reading comprehension, considering all your baseless assumptions.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 11:51AM

A lot of people. A lot. Not all.

A lot as in most people, which is why assuming the relationship is meant to be exclusive makes the most sense.

Start by working on your understanding of logical thought (and your orthography); then we can talk.

Spare me the straw man, please.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 11:08AM