I may get a lot of hate for this, but am I the only one who doesn't feel bad for her? Like, her bad ending happened because she's so stupid and makes terrible choices.

If you want to victim blame rape and femicide victims, 4chan is that way ------------->

And of course you don't read my points below.
I'm not blaming her for being a victim, I'm criticizing her bad strategy and decision making, as a fighter.

Also, I think it would be more impactful if she was traumatised, but when the goddess offered her power so she can take revenge, she still chose justice, then I would feel bad and respect her. But instead, she's sitting next to her severed head, talking about it as if it's someone else's story

Ah I love this one. Glad to know it's being scanlated and uploaded here. Thank you. It's not an easy story to read with the violence and gore but I love how she made a comeback after such traumatizing moment. I wish that goddess had stopped what happened and transfered her to the divine realm before she got killed but that's the story I guess. Looking forward for her to end everyone who wronged her and going on adventures with the group.

just another thinly veiled edgy isekai trash
gonna have to better than that to fool me

Pretty stupid so far. The story initially gunning for a rape/revenge angle before essentially wiping the slate clean with an offscrean century of training, followed by the introduction of (what initially appear to be, though I would be happy to be proven wrong) a cute wholesome team of adventuring buddies, is flatly dumb. The emotional and thematic throughlines of the first chapter are just...gone by chapter 3. Rape to make the new team dynamic more comforting. Rape as a hook to a generic fantasy story.

But also the first thing this party does is literally a homestuck bit. That's been stuck in my head since I first read it. They do the exact same thing Dave did when he couldn't pull that sword from a rock. I honestly might keep reading to see if future adventures also are comedy gags played straight. That's not to say that I like it—this manga feels like a mess from basically every angle story-wise—but it might end up being very, very funny, which is kind of like being good if you squint

I never got the feeling that this was going to be specifically a rape revenge story. From the start it's crystal clear that Elizabeth wants to become the legendary hero of her generation. That goal is established first and it never changes; being betrayed by the men at the academy, which also directly leads to her torture, rape, and death by the hands of the bandits, are obstacles to that goal. She gets brought back to life because the Goddess has already chosen her, and then she starts her journey as the legendary hero just like she originally wanted.

'Roll Over and Die' is a yuri dark fantasy series (with an upcoming anime adaptation) that features a protagonist who is initially betrayed by her party leader and sold into slavery. She does kill the slaver that she was sold to and every subsequent slaver she encounters, but the main plot is still about the war against the demons.

In both of these stories, the Cruel Fate that happens to the protagonist at the beginning is not the main event, but a way to underline her position as an underdog and to give her an excuse to stop being nice. (Whether that's good or bad writing is a different matter.) And I think it's important that Elizabeth's Cruel Fate does not start and end with being raped; after all that and her murder was only the culmination of the way the sexist academy treated her. It makes more sense to think of the bandits as a weapon that the men of the academy used to get rid of her. That's why she kills most of the bandits off-page, but we see her go all "you have failed this city" on Beaubert. The academy is full of self-serving scumbags who actively sabotaged her despite her potential because she's a girl, but now they're forced to play nice with her. That's the power fantasy here.

I also don't expect Elizabeth's new cool personality to be set in stone. She might have 150 years of fighting experience, a bunch of strategies to defeat the demon king, and the confidence of a veteran, but that's not the same as general life experience or emotional maturity. I assume part of her character arc from now on will be to learn to trust the other three on her team and to be vulnerable again, especially with May.

Pretty stupid so far. The story initially gunning for a rape/revenge angle before essentially wiping the slate clean with an offscrean century of training, followed by the introduction of (what initially appear to be, though I would be happy to be proven wrong) a cute wholesome team of adventuring buddies, is flatly dumb. The emotional and thematic throughlines of the first chapter are just...gone by chapter 3. Rape to make the new team dynamic more comforting. Rape as a hook to a generic fantasy story.

But also the first thing this party does is literally a homestuck bit. That's been stuck in my head since I first read it. They do the exact same thing Dave did when he couldn't pull that sword from a rock. I honestly might keep reading to see if future adventures also are comedy gags played straight. That's not to say that I like it—this manga feels like a mess from basically every angle story-wise—but it might end up being very, very funny, which is kind of like being good if you squint

I never got the feeling that this was going to be specifically a rape revenge story. From the start it's crystal clear that Elizabeth wants to become the legendary hero of her generation. That goal is established first and it never changes; being betrayed by the men at the academy, which also directly leads to her torture, rape, and death by the hands of the bandits, are obstacles to that goal. She gets brought back to life because the Goddess has already chosen her, and then she starts her journey as the legendary hero just like she originally wanted.

'Roll Over and Die' is a yuri dark fantasy series (with an upcoming anime adaptation) that features a protagonist who is initially betrayed by her party leader and sold into slavery. She does kill the slaver that she was sold to and every subsequent slaver she encounters, but the main plot is still about the war against the demons.

In both of these stories, the Cruel Fate that happens to the protagonist at the beginning is not the main event, but a way to underline her position as an underdog and to give her an excuse to stop being nice. (Whether that's good or bad writing is a different matter.) And I think it's important that Elizabeth's Cruel Fate does not start and end with being raped; after all that and her murder was only the culmination of the way the sexist academy treated her. It makes more sense to think of the bandits as a weapon that the men of the academy used to get rid of her. That's why she kills most of the bandits off-page, but we see her go all "you have failed this city" on Beaubert. The academy is full of self-serving scumbags who actively sabotaged her despite her potential because she's a girl, but now they're forced to play nice with her. That's the power fantasy here.

I also don't expect Elizabeth's new cool personality to be set in stone. She might have 150 years of fighting experience, a bunch of strategies to defeat the demon king, and the confidence of a veteran, but that's not the same as general life experience or emotional maturity. I assume part of her character arc from now on will be to learn to trust the other three on her team and to be vulnerable again, especially with May.

I actually had Roll Over and Die in mind when I wrote my first comment. By memory (a hazy memory to be clear—it's been a loooong time since I read volume 4 of the LN) every volume of that story has some wildly edgy ultraviolent thing happen to the protagonist or to the people around her, which is imo good! It makes the initial selling into slavery incident feel like an effective tone setter and introduction to a world that treats people like meat.

The reason these chapters hit so badly for me (and to be honest this is probably me speaking too soon, but it's where I'm currently at with this series) is that in chapter 3, her new male party members from the same academy are cool with having her around as the hero, and the gang's going on a lightly comedic, lightly romantic adventure to break a sword. Or to rephrase that, chapter 3 could be the third chapter to any number of fantasy yuri manga. You could wholesale replace the chapter 1 rape and murder with almost any other backstory and you'd only have to change, like, the first page. Which feels like a weird place to be at chapter 3: rather than exploring the emotions and aftermath of the inciting incident, it feels like its swept under the rug. The fact that the male party members are immediately awed by her is probably what annoyed me the most. It feels like a soft refusal to actually engage with themes of misogyny established in the previous two chapters.

Hope this made sense. I know that it's early to judge the manga but first impressions are important and wait what did you say roll over and die is getting an anime?????o shit and vol 5 is dropping later this year. man what am i even doing here i should go reread that series

It makes sense, I get where you're coming from. I agree that the tone quickly shifts to something far brighter in chapter 3.

If I have to think why the two male party members being like that don't bother me... For one, from what I understand these guys are mages just like May, so they come from a different track than the men Elizabeth trained with. That would not guarantee that they're not sexist, but we have witnessed a culture that expects the mages to act in a supporting role to the legendary hero, which I think colors things a bit.

Perhaps guys who aspired to assist the legendary hero from the start instead of becoming said hero themselves, might be more secure in their masculinity and thus capable of clearing the low bar of taking orders from the legendary hero even if she's a girl. The fact that these guys respect Lady Lisa now does not mean that they would have believed she could become the hero when she was just Elizabeth, it just means that they are doing the job they've been preparing for.

Well, it's possible I'm putting more thought into this than the mangaka, and that the themes of Elizabeth's origin story will end up being irrelevant. I understand your worries in that regard.