@Thiaguinho-sama I disagree with various aspects of your recount of the thread's past, but if you have something less than positive to say about the series feel free. @Nyachan's last comment was laced with sarcasm. I didn't read anything to which to reply.
I joined this forum to discuss this series. If someone wants to start a constructive conversation something, share away. Pointing out that there are clichés isn't much of a conversation starter. This cliché this past chap was pretty obvious, imo. :?
This is kinda old, but I did attempt to reply to you, @nyachan, a while back. I deleted, per request, so here it is:
- FF is real slow. We’re at half of the story and neither of the characters have confessed. Hell, we’re not even sure what kind of relationship they want. I can’t even picture them having sex!
Well, "slow" is relative. Stepping back, I guess I'd call it slow story, but I'm reading it for the characters. And my preferred stories I'm reading with really detailed character development are all similarly slow. I think it's a lack of progression in notable events you can point at, such as: "they kissed", "they graduated", ... Or, maybe another way is to describe it as time not moving. They're still in the same place, etc. But I think of it as a tradeoff. And, personally, I kinda prefer more detailed, subtle character development than lots of movement in physical space or time.
Take Their Story, for example: One of the characters is quite bold and seemingly more secure in herself (as compared to No-rae and Seol-a), and so I'm totally OK with the pace at which their development has progressed. (I also thinking of that story as way more action oriented.) With Fluttering Feelings, in contrast, the leads are way more insecure, way less confident and way less blunt. They're generally "good" but not perfect, and they're imperfections aren't presented in a stereotypical manner (e.g., fitting under a label like "yandere" or something). I also think most people (especially females) are closer to No-rae and Seol-a in their confidence, anxieties and insecurities than the less feminine lead of Their Story.
- Except Seol-a and No-rae, none of the characters have any depth or presence.
- The various oppas or guys in the story are all forgettable and don’t have any meaningful interactions with the two main.
- Except maybe Ji-hwan (?) who had a crush on No-rae, but he’s out of the picture now because he was rejected and gave-up.
- The female friends are even worse. They are used just as a way to get a glimpse of the two MCs past, they have no real personality whatsoever. They pop up randomly in order to make some exposition.
Mmm... It does feel to me like most of the side characters are there for one or the other of them to run into in order to learn more about the other or for the audience to learn more about the leads. But, again, I don't mind. I'm most interested in Seol-a and No-rae. I think Ji-hwan still falls into this categorization. :? I guess he's still around as a friend, but I don't think it matters, really.
I find a lot of focus on many side characters or having lots of "leads" annoying (if I like a subset of the leads) or confusing--like I can't keep up with all the threads. I think...Sweet Blue Flowers?? made me feel this way.
- The traffic accidents trope is just overused. A car for Yu-ji, a bus for No-rae and a bike for Seol-a. Did she avoid a truck on purpose?
- The overhearing conversation trope is overused too. In the classroom, in the washroom, at the vending machine…
- The characters being drunk. Or with a cold.
- The ex, or it’s shadow, coming between the characters.
- Interrupted confession.
- Convenient car at Seol-a’s disposal.
- Drama for the sake of drama and I’m sure you all read elsewhere : death, painful love, unexplained break-up, abusive boyfriend, hostility because of “too perfect”.
It’s just what comes to mind at the top of my head, I’ll stop here. I would need to re-read the whole thing to find more, but I’m sure I would eventually.
It just piles up over the course of the story and because I like the characters of Seol-a and No-rae, it bothers me to no end to see them in these artificial situations.
That my perception of FF for now and I doubt any wall of text is going to change my feelings about this. I think other people around here feel the same, but they just don’t voice it. So here I am, because I feel it needs to be said instead of bathing in universal praise.
Ha-ha. I'm not sure what you mean by "Did she avoid a truck on purpose?".
I think tropes need to be put into context. No-rae's accident, sure. But Yu-Ji died early. I don't think the means of death is important/relevant, so I wouldn't pick at it.
People overhearing thing's isn't just a trope. It happens. Especially in school. Think bullies, rumors, gossip. I'm working and maybe the clear bullies are fewer but rumors and gossip still fly. And it's important to Seol-a's experience. Bullying was important to mine. It's a common experience, so that it shows up in a lot of stories just makes sense to me.
Characters being drunk and having colds, especially in college, sounds normal to me. Maybe your college experience is different? At least, in the US, drunk college kids is definitely a thing. (I'd say something about maybe look through the lens of a different cultural experience, but it seems you've read many manga... Not that Korean culture isn't vastly different. I'm really new to it.)
Interrupted confession, like the No-rae accident, is another one where I totally understanding you marking of another "flaw".
I also don't care for drama for the sake of drama. That's why I'm hoping that the relationship between No-rae's past relationship and her going to Australia aren't any of the common conclusions and especially not anything to do with his breaking her trust. Time (and Ssamba) will tell...
The situations you've highlighted aren't the important situations to me. And seeing what you have highlighted, I can see how the progression has been both frustrating and a bit (or a lot??) of a let down. I, on the other hand, was expecting slow development from the start, taking seeing focus on micro interactions, glances, subtle expressions, etc. Getting to know someone well and develop feelings for them is a complex process, and I'm enjoying finally reading a Manwha (or manga) where that's treating it in a complex and not formulaic manner (previously mentioned plot devices already noted).
My usual gripes with romance, Shoujo--just most manga I've read--is similarities in main and recurring characters personalities. And the predictable actions they take that align with those personalities. Fluttering Feelings doesn't have these. That was a major plus for me that already sets it a part with a small number of manga. This contrast is even greater for me with respect to Yuri and Shoujo Ai. It seems to often that there's a blonde, long-haired girl across from a short, black-haired girl. So many predictable plot paths...
Even with the plot of Fluttering Feelings, I don't feel like it's predictable so much as there just isn't much movement at all. Not the same as predictable. It's just not plot driven (which you seem to prefer). She's put the characters in an environment, a college setting (that, as you or someone else long ago mentioned, isn't really distinguishable). Again, I don't think that's a point of emphasis. For me those situational plot devices seem few and far between (all the character development events). In college? Meh. So my negative-to-positive interaction ratio is much lower. My focus is on No-rae and Seol-a becoming more relatable and complex (or "real") with every chapter. :?
Certainly this story isn't everyone's cup of tea. I'd venture it's too "slow" for most people. Relative to other manga and Manwha I've read, I feel like the rate of development is higher (developments per panel or something). It's just in the character development spectrum and not the events (time) spectrum. It seems that many of the things you enjoy, the things that make you say one manga is better than another, are lacking with this one.
I took the time highlighting the plot-driven versus character-driven stuff in attempt to help you maybe readjust your lens on this Manwha so that it's more enjoyable (or at least less frustrating for you). Not trying to convince you away from your opinions. If I cared relatively more about plot progression, I'd probably be more frustrated too. I feel like most stories where romance is the primary theme have weaker or largely absent plots, relatively speaking though, regardless of the medium (manga, novel, etc.); I appreciate it when they do.
The END ¯_(ツ)_/¯
There have been a couple more plot devices/recognizable tropes since whenever this was, but I still think it's a strong piece in spite of those. The "eye roll" level of a cliché or plot device depends on context--for me. The boyfriend's appearances have been the worst, thus far (on both occasions) for me. ...Those were pretty bad. Definitely weakened this last chapter from a writing standpoint. I "know" it should be a catalyst for a change in Seol-a and No-rae's relationship, but reading this chapter in isolation without anticipating anything, this chapter didn't advance anything. I agree with folks about Seol-a's expression this chapter, but it isn't new. Someone--I can't find the post right now--mentioned that we've been seeing it at moments since No-rae's accident.
P.S. I forgot about this post. Thought I'd deleted it or something. :?_
P.P.S. @cipp Thank you for replying to my previous post and sharing that tidbit about Korea. It was a bit of a leading question. I was actually curious about the hotel situation too. It seemed so ...Western?? to me. Just very different from what I can recall of hotels shown in manga, for example. (Please, forgive my ignorance. >. < )
P.P.P.S. How are people linking to specific posts?
last edited at Jan 19, 2016 1:12AM
