Ah, so sweet!

Getting horny. What are they asking, that pretty much sex? Absolutely!

So funny, what can I say you gotta like liking fingers especially if its a cute significant other. Come to think of it I think her tongue was probably salty too, yep definitely progress to that!

Yes only 3 slides and yet so sweet and so innocent (angelic smiles) at the same time and fun and full of promises too. Saburouta in Citrus has much to learn no angst no ridiculous trolling, just smooth and wholesome. Stupid Saburouta!

rebooted Mei’s character, healing of a broken character

I am wondering if you even comprehend the value of your suggestion and how an utterly outstanding script your idea of healing a broken Mei truly is/would have been for citrus. In fact that's what Citrus truly is suppose to be. Its about love and redemption, a story of discovery where Mei represents the broken individual, full of insecurities, depression, emotional pain who has been betrayed and abused and discarded by the grandfather and her parents and Yuzu is her angel and the only one capable of healing her. However, the story needs to be consistent, the characters need to develop and express their feelings and verbalize their problems to each other so they know and we know (that they know)
what the problems are and end up healing each other through love and passion/compassion. I cant imagine Yuri without passion by-the-way. Certain things need to be said. We need more than just romance which sadly even that is lacking at the moment. Perhaps I can introduce a story from a very special writer The Broken - ENTER, THE HEALER https://archiveofourown.org/works/27238189
And by the way the last episode Citrus +: August 14th it was nerve wracking and cringe no not frustrating but pure madness. Now Mei locks herself in the room and stares at the wall? Saburouta please let Mei go to a mental hospital, and let Yuzu be with anyone else. Anyone else on the face of the planet would be better than Mei. Let her go, pls. Enough with this madness!

last edited at Nov 1, 2021 6:54PM

Occam’s Razor
Take it as you wish yet logic or simplest explanation are not really terms which can be applied to Citrus. I have never heard of 2 people who love each other to be able to sleep in the same bed for 1-2 years without some physicality happening.

In fact in ch 4-13 while going to bed Yuzu was saying “be quiet my heart Mei will hear” “I want to touch her hair her skin even with just my fingertips” and on slide 14-15 she was literally on top of Mei grinning. Fast forward to today and Sabu is trying to rationalize romance (which is a fallacy because there either is or isnt) by saying “before marriage there is dating and we’ve only just started" "I should properly go through the steps from the beginning" whereas a much more down to earth Matsuri responds "but she's already proposed to you , so why now..." Go ahead and find Occam's Razor in that. https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_june_2nd#17

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 3:13PM

important events - semi public place

As far as important events being canon, I wanted to caution you a bit that we have never been offered an explanation to what happened between Mei and Suzuran in ch 28 love exe. I don’t know why would Saburouta omit such slides in a time when it mattered most. It is extremely frustrating. I would have paid or begged to see those slides more than any other Citrus chapter.

I am not sure if it is Matsuri or Saburouta laughing at us when Matsuri giggling at Yuzu says “Did your senpai take Mei home with her?” https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch28#15 Ahm yeah, that was not fun at all. To me the darkest chapter in Yuzu’s life has been in fact that arc. The point is we don’t know what happened, that's all!

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 5:59AM

The mere mention of porn

Someone else mentioned that before or I would not have brought it up, poor choice of words on my part.

And please keep going with it—pretty soon the only person in the series Mei won’t have had sex with will be Yuzu.

It is not my doing. Sabu has set all kinds of ridiculous barriers, all kinds of psychological problems, all kinds of aangst, and drama and suffering and tormenting experiences, years of waiting, and all kinds of friends inviting themselves in Yuzu‘s Mei relationship destroying their life and every expectation they might have (Himeko, Suzuran, 2 arranged marriages etc). Citrus could have been amazing in fact:

Yuzu says “these are the clothes Mei was wearing earlier, Mei’s body emits a very delicious scent. Oh no I’ve become a pervert .” https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch21#13
Yuzu is burning with passion and love and Mei is teasing her by pretending not to notice how Yuzu is avoiding her gaze, only to confront Yuzu head on by bending over her and edging ever closer literally boiling her blood of want and happiness; Mei says "you are finally willing to look into my eyes." https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch21#20 Yuzu monologues “ I cant take it any more, I am going to die of happiness “

And now that Mei and Yuzu are alone what do we have? An oblivious Mei, to anything even remotely associated with love, or emotion or sexual experience (compare it with ch 21). Mei made it clear from the beginning she has sexual experience! Why is she acting now as if she has no clue whatsoever about physical contact when yuzu is trying to be affectionate?

Its why I stopped caring, if Sabu does not care, why should we? Why couldnt Citrus be like Yagate Kimi Ni Naru with a solid flow of romance which finalizes into a pure fulfilling relationship? We all wanted those 2 to be happy but Sabu is simply not willing (or not able) to deliver. Did Citrus not start with the premise of a steamy love affair?

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 2:36AM

And the statement "Mei had an affair with Himeko in ch 5" is not a matter of "opinion"--it is a flat-out falsehood that is contradicted by every level of the text.

Himeko comes on to Mei who rejects her and later tells Yuzu, "There's nothing between Himeko and me." It simply can't get any plainer than that. Anyone who reads an affair between Mei and Himeko into that chapter (or any other part of either series) is hallucinating.

I am not certain to what factual evidence you are looking for however, it is nearly impossible in everyday life to find such evidence when it comes to a spouse or lover, and this is Saburouta we are talking about so you are not gonna find absolute proof of Mei cheating Yuzu. Perhaps in the case of Himeko she was simply bragging about crossing the line with Mei but that was not my impression my feeling as well as a correlation with Mei's character when it comes to being dominated. When Himeko touched her, or Matsuri later on, Mei always became extremely aroused becoming very submissive in both cases. https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch11#28 Mei was willing to sleep with a stranger in Matsuri arc just to hide from Yuzu who she truly is. There is also an arc with Suzuran when Mei literally runs away with her. She comes home very late and all the sexual tension gained that day (https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch27#34) is gone, Mei tells Yuzu "I've already resolved that" https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch28#21. I really really hope I am wrong but how do you resolve sexual tension do you know? Yuzu on the other hand says "but I havent resolved anything," which is true because Yuzu had not been with anyone (unlike Mei). Saburuota gives no explanation whatsoever what happened between Mei and Suzuran in that night. Suzupon tells Yuzu later on"the conclusion is I got dumped ch28#31) but you see you have to be in a relationship to get dumped to begin with, which IMO was the 1 night stand before. At least that is what I felt and understood.

Back to the himeko arc here is some of my reasoning:

1) ch05#30 Mei does not oppose any resistance to Momo's advances and while Saburouta did not show any after slides Mei was/is as always submissive. Mei was actually trembling with a look which clearly suggested she was seriously aroused. Since Mei arrives that night very late, unless she managed to gain immediately perfect composure it is clearly implied that they had sex.

2) Mei finds it very easy to lie to Yuzu so no sorry I dont believe her.

3) ch05#34 “Well then I hope we have your eternal support” says Himeko with an unmistakable look of victory on her face touching her lips with the very fingers she used to cross the threshold with Mei.
No, I don’t think Himeko was lying (in that scene) she would not brag and glow like that unless it was the truth. Furthermore, Mei and Himeko have been more than friends even before ch5 original because Himeko says while touching Mei ch05#29 "but i am behaving just as I normally do."

Anyway in short that is what I saw and felt and understood. Perhaps I saw connections where evil was averted and Mei escaped unscathed but I dont really believe it so!

last edited at Nov 4, 2021 8:25AM

^ Look, I’m as willing to accuse this series of crappy writing as anyone—more than most people here, probably. But those assertions about Himeko are flat-out wrong.

I don’t even have to re-read that early chapter to know that Mei never remotely had “an affair” with Himeko—Himeko, jealous of the budding relationship between Mei and Yuzu, comes on to Mei in a sexual way, and Mei rebuffs her.

And in the Citrus+ chapter, Himeko is explicitly all-in for supporting Mei’s relationship with Yuzu, who explicitly has no jealousy toward Himeko at that point.

I’ve seen lots of readers tie themselves in knots or fly through the headcanon stratosphere trying to assert that Mei has been a consistently written, psychologically coherent character throughout these two series rather than blame Saburouta for being a sloppy, inattentive plotter.

But textual facts are facts, and that stuff about Himeko is simply counterfactual.

EDIT: In fact, that Citrus + chapter is nothing but 100% Himeko’s formal coronation as Eternal Empress of the Friendzone.

Of course everyone has the right to their opinions but that is not what I understood and saw when reading both ch 5 original and ch5 citrus plus. I never posted my analysis on Citrus plus june 15 (chapter5) entitled “A smile only I know" because I dont want to freak people out but even in original ch 5 Himeko's hand going under Mei's skirt there is nothing friendly about it. If need be I would have to upload even earlier chapters such as the entire Suzuran arc. I lost interest in Citrus and simply did not want to finish it. The last chapter the august 19 was just nerve-wracking with Mei consciously throwing herself in work simply because she does not want any emotional commitment. You are correct the recent chapters show a Himeko totaly suportive and totally friendly but she was not always like that. Himeko was quite jealous and quite rapey back in her day. Its very misleading as if the characters including Mei have changed beyond recognition. Read https://www.reddit.com/r/CitrusManga/comments/7yvok2/citrus_manga_aihara_mei_may_have_been_sexually/, its but a start of the real Citrus. I really wanted those two to be happy but its just too much. I understand Mei's character that she was neglected and forced literally as a tool in 2 arranged marriages and she never received any love any consideration (until Yuzu) and purely been abandoned by her both parents with her father refusing to take any responsibility in the dynastic university family business but such a relationship where Yuzu's support is 200% and Mei is simply content with denial would never work. And this has been dragging on now for years. Mei's job was suppose to be her father's she ended up sacrificing herself and completely broke up with Yuzu because of being brainwashed to function like a robot ch36-40. Its part of the reason she worked all day without any consideration to Yuzu's feelings on her bday(last ch). Its all much too negative, I need to be literally giddy and ecstatic after reading Yuri romance because its suppose to be pure love and yet I get panic attacks instead. Citrus has never been a lovey-dovey story!

last edited at Oct 28, 2021 4:10PM

Yuzu should break up with Mei. She just give her more without any reciprocate. My heart is breaks for Yuzu to see her suffering.
Mei had a week to do her f work, forgot her fiancée's birthday and not even try to change or be better for sake of Yuzu. Maybe a little bit... but It feels a truly one sided love.
Mei character is not improved, morover is worse than before, still an emotionally crippled person who would screw with anybody who is pushing her a little bit, like happened with Amemiya sensei. About Yuzu... Yuzu is an intresting toy for her which is recently discovered, do not know what to do with it, where to place it, so... when needed she takes out, when not, put back into the drawer.

I hope you are joking because... Yuzu isn’t* suffering, I think her smiles at Mei(talking about work) is like a wholesome smile. In a way Yuzu likes it when Mei is studious. Mei didn’t forget about Yuzu’s birthday, their mother had business to do so she was going to delay the celebration; she had Mei tell Yuzu. Needless to say, Yuzu was pretty bummed out about it. But no one forgot anything. And lastly, tell me what you have against Kuuderes.

This response is to Nari: You are in denial, Citrus has been an unending chain of suffering and angst with Mei completely neglecting Yuzu's feelings on and of countless times. Mei forced herself on Yuzu the 1st time she saw her leaving Yuzu emotionally crippled (the first kiss). That is why Yuzu would run so many times from Mei. Mei ran with Suzuran leaving Yuzu completely heartbroken and mad with angst and jealousy. Mei had an affair with Himeko in ch 5 original and there was another Himeko episode in ch5 citrus plus. (citrus_june_15th#11).
ch38#30 Yuzu completely broken sobbing uncontrollably says "I dont know what to do anymore"
ch41#14 Mei tells Yuzu "I really hate you"
ch39#11 Yuzu's mom tells her "the future you chose can be more painful than you can imagine"
These were just a few slides by-the-way
And as far as some fans wanting a sexual scene (because you mentioned that) I actually agree with you that such moments can not be forced. Yet you must understand any other manga out there produces 2 , 3 chapters per month Citrus is 8 years old and over 63 chapters and yet we still dont have a satisfying relationship between MC's. Its very frustrating when you wait and wait for a mariage for some romance and it leads nowhere. When you read a manga you should not feel so frustrated and bewildered and angry.

last edited at Oct 28, 2021 7:48AM

Very nice how can we not like NSFW ToukoYuu (we cant get enough of it) and no I do not think it was dirty or abnormal in any way. When you love someone its ok to be a little selfish nothing wrong with that in fact quite the contrary! Wish the cover pictures were drawn better. More slides? I'm ok even with more chapters you know.