Well those two are friends with benefits, so this case isn’t really poly since none of them are in an actual relationship yet. Imo the MC may end up with the long haired chick

You literally have almost nothing to go on, and both people are interested in her sexually, don't mind sharing, and at least one has expressed romantic interest in the manga (in her thought bubbles), and you're trying to say 1 will be picked over the other? This is like, trying so freaking hard to avoid polyamory. If both of her neighbors are dating her, even if they aren't dating each other, that's polyamory, and that definitely looks like where this is headed.

I keep thinking about this manga. I think this is the single manga I'm most excited to see where it goes right now.

It's not exactly uncommon either, I've seen a few manga with characters that are like that.

No, quite the contrary—I was arguing against assimilating all high-school yuri stories, whatever the level of sexual intimacy, to the Class S paradigm absent textual evidence to support that reading.

Yes which I literally agreed with at multiple points, hence my statement that you just think everything is an argument.

Class S stories classically often involved a meeting between the characters again in their future lives as adults, in heterosexual marriages. Like, that was one of the common things within Class S. Are you really saying Class S stories usually involve the characters staying together after the end of the stories? Because you were originally arguing that there's no evidence people don't stay together after the end of stories in modern high school works, which is true, but saying that about Class S is pretty false.

That's also not what I said, you talked to 2 fucking people here.

God you're so fucking obsessed with being right. I'm trying to discuss things not win the argument you think every interaction on this forum is. Why are almost all of the most active posters on here so fucking argumentative

Maybe the "purest" form of Class S has no sexual intimacy, but I would say that the hallmark of the genre is simply the transience of the relationships, rather than the exact and specific relationship between the girls.

Dont think this can be considered predatory, theyre just ultra-horny. Neither of them does anything beyond flirting/seducing until after she shows some interest/curiosity.

I wasn't saying it was predatory, I was saying the "stereotype" of lesbians aggressively coming-onto straight women is based in homophobic propaganda about lesbians as predators - nothing wrong with enjoying direct or aggressive lesbians, and the ones in this story are very much not being presented as predatory, but it is important to understand the roots of that stereotype and the reasons why it's not a necessarily positive one.

Class S was an important genre normalizing love between girls and expressions of love between girls, and it told an important truth that lesbians and bisexual women of the time went through, which is being forced out of their relationships outside of school and expected to marry men. It also kinda fucking sucks, and I sure as hell don't want to read Class S works, and it left a massive imprint on the genre to this day, almost every long-form manga references the concepts of Class S, usually, thankfully, to refute them, but still having to acknowledge them. It also influenced the setting, a massive amount, I think we can agree. And the open-ended endings of the oneshots to which MacySan is referring are an artifact of that, I'd argue, by not showing the girls in relationships beyond those in high school, a sense propriety is maintained, but I'd say that's a minor part of things. Either way, you're both arguing pretty hard for having viewpoints that don't actually fully conflict with eachother.

Yes, the representation of lesbians as predatory was really common in pop culture for a long period of time and has done a bunch of harmful things. They've moved on from calling lesbians predatory these days mostly to calling trans women predatory.

The irony of cis lesbians characterizing trans women as predatory would be funny if it weren't infuriating.

TERFs are made of hypocrisy, it's nothing new

Yes, the representation of lesbians as predatory was really common in pop culture for a long period of time and has done a bunch of harmful things. They've moved on from calling lesbians predatory these days mostly to calling trans women predatory.

Edit: to be explicit, I don't find the representation here in the manga harmful in any way, it doesn't hit upon the common points from the problematic representations that made them bad, I'm just referring to why that trope is (fucking thankfully) less common these days.

last edited at Jan 20, 2020 10:21AM

Also remember not-kids, denying people the opportunity to be trans and explore their gender in safe ways increases the chance of them doing it unsafely, such as binding harmfully, and it's better to be supportive. This is for society in general, for parents, and for friends. (That's not relevant to this specific exact manga, because she wasn't binding because of being trans or exploring gender, but it is relevant for the comment above).

Thank you for finding it @Qwertre09. Not as cute as I was hoping, but still good to have closure lol.

oh
oh my. This looks prime for a polyamory development.

Literally no one in here, not one single person, has said the story shouldn't be written because a rape happened in it. Literally no one. You read into that entirely on your own. In fact, most of the people discussing the situation actively said they liked the manga. For someone complaining about virtue signaling, you're the one arguing against a thing that never happened and is a nonissue.

Edit: someone had like a 4 paragraph essay about how it was ridiculous that we were decrying the media just for featuring problematic content, even though we weren't. That's what both Cecile and myself were replying to.

last edited at Jan 20, 2020 12:29AM

Well, you could argue some of her teaching to Micchan was "cruel". Similarly you could argue that Micchan really enjoyed all of it, so...

I suppose, but I still think that leans more toward inconsiderate than cruel. She's just helping Micchan out of the closet she's obviously in, albeit in a very immature manner.

No I was just joking about how dommy teasing is often called "cruel" but Micchan was heavily enjoying it, it's obviously not actually cruel, and I wouldn't argue inconsiderate. The person it was inconsiderate to was her girlfriend.

Yeah, no, you know what, I'm going to take back my comments in here. My bias based on liking the character involved and some argumentative drive that I (apparently) had today led to me arguing stuff that's really not the case. I'm gonna go ahead and disavow the things I said here, the fact that it was fiction and that I have baggage(tm) about power dynamics and stuff does not change what the actual situation was.

Well, you could argue some of her teaching to Micchan was "cruel". Similarly you could argue that Micchan really enjoyed all of it, so...

I mean, I don't think she was acting cold as an act, I think she was being an idiot, and she felt bad so she was anxious and withdrawing. Still on her, but I don't think she was acting cold just to mess with Sana or test her or something at least.

God they're so gay

Yeah, further confused by it being sex she was getting something out of, namely leniency on her rent. Is prostitution under the influence rape? Is prostitution under duress under the influence rape? Like, it's clearly unethical from the landlady, but it's unclear exactly what form of unethical, and she's clearly trying to become a better person. I'd condemn the hell out of it in real life, but in fiction, kinda complicated, and people can change a lot more easy in fiction.

Coerced sex and sex with someone too drunk/high/whatever to give meaningful consent are both rape.

I'm quite aware of both of those facts. It's not entirely clear to me that she was too drunk to consent, nor that it was coerced. Prostitution is not rape. Again, I think it's bad, and the specific definition or form of badness is not clear, but it's not like her sleeping with her landlady because she couldn't make rent is rape in a vacuum, it's much closer to prostitution. And I'm not entirely sure how drunk she was (signs point to "too much" but still), but it is clear that if that was the only thing going on people would not be calling it rape. I believe heavily in consent in all manners of life, and it clearly was not here enough in this case, but the specifics of it are at least slightly muddied.

Yeah, further confused by it being sex she was getting something out of, namely leniency on her rent. Is prostitution under the influence rape? Is prostitution under duress under the influence rape? Like, it's clearly unethical from the landlady, but it's unclear exactly what form of unethical, and she's clearly trying to become a better person. I'd condemn the hell out of it in real life, but in fiction, kinda complicated, and people can change a lot more easy in fiction.

Yeah I mean, I know it's simpler and get why (though the point about the 3rd year being very heavy in workload is a good one I hadn't considered) I just get a little annoyed by basically all the characters being under 18 sometimes.

This series portrays desire very very well. As with all the great series that do that, fuck do I wish it was about adults at least.