I'm talking about Gin. Yeah, she's not explicitly stated to have been in love with Takako, but episode 9 makes it clear enough.

…And I finally caught up on YagaKimi (chapter 30). \o\ That first part of the play was… a bit underwhelming honestly, mostly because we already knew more or less how it was gonna unfold. I suppose the second part will have some kind of twist though.

I think the point is that we already know how the play is gonna end, it's not meant to have a suddenly twist at all because Yuu told Koyomi to rewrite the end that she wanted to see in Touko. Part two ends with no twists either, the raws are a few comments above. Now we know the endgame but we don't know what Yuu is going to do next.

last edited at Apr 28, 2018 4:06PM

I did not think it was very dramatic, just sad. Yuu just realised that what made her special to Touko is gone, and she wanted to remain special. She is sad about that but so far I don't see Yuu giving up on their relationship or anything. I think she may be thinking that Touko doesn't need her anymore since she has her family and friends to rely on too. This may cause her to think that Touko doesn't want to keep their relationship or doesn't love her any longer. Of course, Yuu is wrong, and all the hints point that Touko will tell her that she still wants to be with her. And Yuu is still special after all, just not for the same reasons as before. I mean, the love towards your family and friends is different than the one you feel for your lover. I think this little "misunderstanding" will be resolved at the end of the volume, after Touko talks with her family and friends.

last edited at Apr 27, 2018 9:04AM

actually it is hard to argue this matter since there is no official records, and we don't live in japan so we can't be sure.
edit: plus even if it was one million sales worldwide. the profits and sales still exceeds yagate ones.

Yagakimi has 4 volumes less than Citrus. Of course there's gonna be a difference. Even then Citrus has never ranked on Oricon so it does not sell more in Japan. Worldwide? Who knows, Yuri Hime gave Citrus' worldwide number, Dengeki gave Yagate number in Japan (500k as of volume 5). No worldwide number known so far. Regarding profit, I guess Citrus made a deal after the mild streaming success, but the BD sales were a flop and there wasn't much merch.

last edited at Apr 26, 2018 7:22PM

I don't think manga sales are an indication for the success of the anime adaptation. Citrus manga sales exceeded one million copies i think and appeared in New York Times best seller manga list five times in 2015 not mention it's huge popularity. yet the anime adaptation didn't sell that much, it didn't sell bad but it was low compared to other anime (check this). and as for popularity it didn't get that much in fact, it did receive a lot of criticism unlike the original work did. well it is to be expected when you expose the work to a wider audience. (you can check the scores and reviews on anime sites)

"It's just that if the adaption fails, the sales will definitely drop on the anime". yes ur right. many anime adaptations are made just to advertise the original work. cuz japanese people unlike us tend to read manga rather than watch anime so even if the adaptation fails people will resort to the original work to see if it is better. and it's hard to find an adaptation that is more popular than the original work. even the source fans sometimes score the adaptation pretty low if it didn't meet their expectations.

Full-on yuri Anime just never sell good or get popular due to many reasons it is sad but it is a fact. that's why anime makers tend to avoid yuri works. and i'm just glad that recently more yuri manga are getting noticed. and i hope other great yuri manga get the same attention so more people will find out how much great the yuri genre is.

P.S.after thinking about it i think this manga chapters are kind of not enough for a second season, unless they slow paced the anime. i could be wrong though. well anyway i'm not that greedy all what i want is a decent adaptation that does the manga justice and hopefully give rise to more yuri anime.

Citrus 1 million "sales" was actually the number of circulation. Not the same thing. And it was worldwide, so it's not a huge number. Plus Citrus is more popular overseas than in Japan. The New York times is a list about the most most sold manga in the West. Yagakimi is the opposite and sells more than Citrus in their native country. I don't expect it to be a big hit (romance doesn't sell either yuri or het) but I'm sure it will sell more than Citrus (consider the magazine where it's published) and at the very least the manga will get a boost.

last edited at Apr 26, 2018 7:06PM

How can I support the author online? I have seen it on amazon, but for reasons (adulthood, girlfriend, our own place) I don't feel comfortable with buying the physical copies of the manga. I would still like to support the author financially, though.

Could anyone help me out? Thanks.

You can buy the e-book (kindle) version of the manga volumes. That way you can have them in your computer.

Dynasty doesn't use it because this term doesn't exist in japan. Or to be more precise, it does exist, but mean pedophilia. In Japan Yuri or Girl's Love encompass all of possible romance stories between girls. W/e it has sex or not. They got 18+ marking for that. It was Americans that needed a clear distinctive term to separate those too, because of course they would need it, so they came up with that term randomly adding 2 jps words thinking they would mean "girl's love" without realizing they don't and in fact that exact phrase already has a meaning in jps.

Honestly, if someone mentions it unironically again, I think I'm going to get brain aneurysm.

Thanks. Stop using shoujo-ai holy shit
And this is clearly yuri, what, were you expecting her to ask her to date when they barely know each other?

The order of this part is messed up for me?
Edit: Chapter 30

As far as I know the order is in right place. I understood it just fine. If you look in other websites the order is all the same.

Then I'd say it's a global error. That is, unless the author did it this way, but I don't see the logic in putting the beginning of the play at the end of the chapter.

It may be Dynasty's mistake. I checked the raws and 4s version has the same order. Why don't you check 4s folder and download the chapter from Mediafire instead?
https://m.mediafire.com/folder/3xg5q53brg7c9/release
Edit: there's nothing wrong with the order. The first part of the play was over, that's why there was an intermission. The second part is about to start and it'll happen next chapter.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 6:39PM

That’s why when we get to the end of Chapter 22 Yuu’s character development is so clear and so powerful—she knows what she wants and is finally willing to state it forthrightly to herself: “I want to change [Touko].”

Yeah that part was great. Yuu's sister and her friends talked about how Yuu is a hardworker, but she was always very indecisive about whether she should start a new activity or not. The explanation for this, according to Natsuki's dialogue about Yuu's past, is that Yuu was indecisive about things because she lacked a real interest in those things. Her desire to help Touko was the first time she wished and wanted to do something from the bottom of her heart, and it was an awesome character development.

last edited at Mar 28, 2018 10:16PM

I've done that several times. I could compile them in a new post, or quote the pages to make them easier to find?

Huh, sure. I'm curious about what you mean when you say that the characterisation is ambiguous, because I think it's not. For me, the characters' thoughts explain their actions and motivations (example: when we saw Touko's past , monologues and thoughts, we come to understand why she acts all perfect and why she doesn't want to be loved, example 2: we know why Yuu decided to change the play, example 3: we know why Sayaka accepted the new script, etc). Or whatever you think it's ambiguous in this manga.

(true, the teacher took advantage of Yuu's situation)

This the part I don’t understand: the teacher said, “Hey, if you’re looking for something to do, why not check out the student council—they could use the help,” so how is Yuu being manipulated or taken advantage of?

The teacher first said that, Yuu reacted interested ,then he added, "the elections are coming soon and we need help". It's clear what's his intention. He wouldn't have added that line if he just wanted to help Yuu to make a choice about where to join. He wanted Yuu to join so she could help with the election and Yuu noticed this.

Again, the point is not that it’s classic, industrial-strength “The Tell-Tale Heart”-style unreliable narration, but that, especially but not solely in the early part of the story, Yuu quite often (to use a phrase I’ve used before) spins her own decisions to herself—“I’m only doing what anyone would have done, etc.”—or suggests to herself that she’s being reactive when in fact she’s taking the initiative of her own volition.

True, but Yuu just said the “I’m only doing what anyone would have done, etc.” line during the first chapters, when she didn't feel anything towards Touko and just helped her out of kindness/pity. Touko was not special to her back then, and I do believe that Yuu was being honest when she said " I would have done the same for anyone else. Not just her". That's how Yuu is, we saw she did the same for Natsuki and Koyomi when they asked her for help.
Notice how she stopped saying it at some point, when she actually stopped " doing what anyone would have done" and just did what she really wanted to because she cares about Touko (like that time in chapter 22 when Touko didn't ask Yuu for help and even avoided her, yet Yuu went and comforted Touko anyways because she wanted to)./
I think her line was true, but not entirely true. She said that to make clear that she wasn't being nice because she had romantic feelings for Touko. But at the same time, Yuu was denying her own kind nature, since other people might have not helped someone like Touko in those contexts.

last edited at Mar 28, 2018 9:33PM

I think it does feel like it. We agree to disagree.

Aye. I'm used to that in textual fiction and in playwriting, which often uses soliloquies in this fashion, so it doesn't seem that absurd to me for it to be used here. The monologues are all in-character and told from the character's perspectives, and can be interpreted alternatively. That might be where our difference is.

I think you're making a mistake here. It seems like you may believe subtle = ambiguous, and that's not true at all.

I think it is true. Subtlety by its very nature invites more ambiguity than the alternative, as subtlety is defined indirectness and by implication, not by concrete statements and declarations of fact. If a narrative is subtle, it doesn't go out of its way to announce itself to you, and instead lets itself be communicated through the characters' actions and their dialogue.

Something being subtle enough to warrant mentioning in the way that you and others, including myself, have (i.e., as the defining feature of the work) would necessitate it being ambiguous, at least on some level.

I think you might be confusing subtlety with a lack of bombast. The visuals are, for the most part, unexaggerated, but I wouldn't describe them as subtle, and most definitely not in regards to where they prop up the narrative.

So, it's wrong to say the visual storytelling is only subtle or straightforward.

Which I never said, and in fact explicitly denied, in very clear phrasing. You can find my post on this page, beginning with this sentence: "Oh, I don't think there's a lack of subtlety, my bad if you got that impression."

I then went on to clarify that the subtlety present in YagaKimi is less in the visual narration, especially lacking in the areas of unreliability, and more in the realm of characterisation, which I think Blastaar is illustrating very nicely.

Fuck, too tired to give long ass replies. I do think that an indirect or an implication can be ambiguous, but not necessarily. And by definition, subtle and ambiguous are not synonyms. You are free to believe they are, but in the examples I gave about subtle visual storytelling, I just understood subtle as "not too obvious, not thrown on your face". I didn't quote the examples as them having any degree of ambiguity at all, just subtleness (by what I understand is the definition of subtle).

Hell, you only need to look back on this very forum to see people's attitudes regarding this series. The sheer level of debate and analysis going on over the interpretations of the characters, as opposed to the visual elements, is what convinces me that the visual elements aren't subtle or ambiguous. Everyone's pretty much on board with what's going on there.

From what I read here, most people discuss the possible outcomes and future developments (theories, foreshadowing and stuff) of the chapters. I don't think you're wrong, but I don't see people giving different interpretations about the characters' behaviour that much. Maybe about Touko, yeah. But I don't think the characters are meant to be ambiguous since for me, their motivations and reasons for their behaviour are stated/shown in their monologues or actions.

I guess, we have to give specific examples about what we are talking about because just giving overall replies may confuse us.

last edited at Mar 28, 2018 9:17PM

Chapter 1, pg. 8: on her way to observe the student council for the very first time she says that she “feels like she was manipulated” [translation here]/that her homeroom teacher “put one over on her”[official translation].

I don't see how Yuu was being an unreliable narrator here. It was clear the teacher talked to Yuu about joining the Student Council because he wanted more students to help with the election and he heard Yuu was still unsure about picking a club. Yuu was right about this. And her thought after it is not a case of unreliable narration. She first thinks "It seems like I was manipulated into doing this" (true, the teacher took advantage of Yuu's situation) but she finishes with "but I was already kind of interested anyways, so whatever". It would be unreliable narration if Yuu just said the first thought, but she finished it by stating her real feelings: she was kind of curious/interested in joining, regardless.

She also accuses Touko of being “unfair” when she sees that Touko is flustered being around her—that she thought Touko was like her in regard to love (or having someone “special”) despite the fact that Touko expressly said that she had previously been that way but wasn’t anymore.

Yuu was confused. First Touko told her that she never fell for anyone and then suddenly she loves Yuu out of the blue. Yuu holding her hand was just her confirming if what Touko said was for real. She saw Touko flustered, and confirmed that Touko indeed fell for her. Then she thinks it's unfair because Touko, who was the same as Yuu, has someone special now while Yuu still hasn't. I don't see Yuu being an unreliable narrator here either. She did think it was unfair. It's not objective, it's simply unfair for her. I do agree that in reality Touko wasn't unfair here, though.

Even the “don’t fall in love” order, which we know actually is “unfair” because we see into Yuu’s thoughts and feelings, is still just Touko telling Yuu to continue be exactly what Yuu insists to Touko that she already is—a person who doesn’t fall in love.

I think Yuu was being unfair too for the reasons you mention. Yuu constantly said she would never love Touko and never told Touko that she wanted to fall in love. Touko is not omnipresent so she doesn't have any reason to think Yuu would change eventually. On top of that, Yuu is not being forced to stay like this, she chose to do it because she doesn't want Touko to leave her. Due to this I think Yuu was being unfair, but that doesn't mean Touko wasn't selfish and unfair as well.

Even at this late date, Yuu has yet to be completely honest with herself—at least explicitly—about her feelings for Touko.

For sure.

last edited at Mar 28, 2018 8:35PM

it doesn't feel as if those monologues were intended as metacommentary to let you know their internal logic which led them to their conclusions, or why they went about their decisions in the way that they did.

I think it does feel like it. We agree to disagree.

They were just showing the characters deliberating and venting to themselves, or to other people, and the emotional nature of their monologues is reinforced by the visual storytelling in an extremely obvious way. I'm not sure why you think Maki's understated dialogue in saying he prefers to watch couples is somehow less subtle than Nakatani separating from realism to depict him as the sole audience member to a stage production of two people's conversations through a very blatant and exaggerated visual metaphor. That's rather strikingly in your face, to me.

Again, I've been quite vocally supportive of Nakatani's use of unreliable visual narration (although I first started mentioning it a few months ago, so you'd be forgiven for not remembering!), and I don't think she's subtle about using it, and I don't think that's a bad thing, either. It's very clear what parts are unreliable and what parts aren't. I think this is necessary, actually, because we're dealing with a story told through multiple viewpoints. At no point does her visual storytelling leave you with ambiguity regarding what's really going on, because it's always clear what's metaphor, what's genuine, what's Yuu being inconsistent, etc.

Subtlety would be, in my opinion, something like Kafka's Metamorphosis, or Nabakov's Lolita, wherein you have to work fairly hard to separate what's intended to be reality and what's intended to be hallucinatory or warped by the narrator to make them seem more favourable. We can't be sure Gregor didn't actually turn into a bug, because it's well within the surrealism of Kafka's works for him to actually have done that, but an interpretation of him perceiving himself that way due to mental illness is valid in the text. Hell, you could even draw a comparison between the earlier seasons of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, before the reveal about Hinamizawa Syndrome being a form of psychosis. There's none of that in YagaKimi - it's extremely obvious where Yuu's unreliability lies, and it's clear when we're supposed to doubt that what we're being shown is the whole complete truth.

I think you're making a mistake here. It seems like you may believe subtle = ambiguous, and that's not true at all. Subtle visual storytelling, as mentioned above, would be something like the flowers that appear in some chapters and their meanings. There are other examples of this mentioned some posts above as well. But I agree with you, sometimes the visual storytelling is pretty straightforward, like the example you gave about Maki, but there are other times when it's subtle. So, it's wrong to say the visual storytelling is only subtle or straightforward. It can be either of them depending on the situation shown. Regarding ambiguity, I never mentioned anything of the sort, and I agree with you that there's nothing ambiguous about Yuu's unreliable narrator moments, since you can tell when she's being dishonest and when she's telling the truth.

last edited at Mar 28, 2018 8:05PM

But Yuu is an unreliable narrator sometimes, at least she was during volume 4 in regards to her feelings for Touko, because she said one thing and thought/acted the opposite.

Yuu has done this from the start, even before she met Touko. I don’t think a single one of her silent accusations of “unfairness” is actually something that’s unfair to her, or at least outside of her control (except maybe the time Touko snatched the last snack that Yuu wanted).

The thing is that Yuu thinks those things are unfair. I don't think she was being an unreliable narrator when she accused Touko of being unfair. She meant it. Because it's true, it's selfish and unfair of Touko to forbid Yuu from falling for her while Touko is free to do it. But at the same time, Yuu agreed to all of this because she wants to stay with Touko, so she wasn't forced to anything. Before meeting Touko? She pretty much met Touko right away in chapter 1 so I don't see how it applies.

I'm not sure if Gaotama refers to the same thing as me, but I'd say that the visual storytelling is subtle too. And I say this because it's not "in your face" (as in stated), but rather there are details that most readers don't notice if they don't pay enough attention. For instance, the best example for me is the comparison between chapter 1 and 16. Both have the exact same scene, where Koyomi asks Yuu if she's okay. Yuu hesitates and then say yes. But the difference between chapter 1 and 16 is subtle enough. In chapter 1 Yuu is away from her friends, standing on the dark. In chapter 16, she's right next to them, her face in the light. Instead of saying "yeah Yuu knows what's love now", you have that scene. And there are other moments like this, like parallels between scenes or symbolisms. A good example of symbolism is chapter 24, when Touko and Yuu are on the tunnel and on the train. By saying "we have to change trains", this represents Yuu helping Touko to change, and their relationship eventually evolving into a new one because of this.

Oh, I don't think there's a lack of subtlety, my bad if you got that impression. I think the subtlety is all in the characterisation and the way they respond; they don't overreact or anything, and their responses are all with the realms of how a real person might behave (no dictating their feelings via expository monologue with perfect clarity), so there's a lot of room for interpretive depth as to why they make the decisions they do and what their internal thought processes are.

I'm not sure about this, we have seen Touko, Sayaka and Yuu having inner monologues that help understand why they act the way they do, I don't think there's room for interpretation in this regard. Personally, I think this aspect is straightforward. But Yuu is an unreliable narrator sometimes, at least she was during volume 4 in regards to her feelings for Touko, because she said one thing and thought/acted the opposite. Their monologues are clear, the subtle part is the visual storytelling, because it's not shown in your face as said above.

So uhh what is the rule for discussion a chapter that translations are out but just not on site?

You can comment as much as you want to but you need to use spoilers tags everywhere lol

Do we know how many acts are in the play? At least two, right?

(I thought I remembered a reference, but it would take me forever to find it, if it's there at all.)

Pretty sure it has two parts. Remember chapter 22, the first part was over after Touko's character breaks down. Then there was a pause and Ichigaya mentioned Touko's acting wasn't that good in the second half of the script. Then Koyomi and Yuu rewrote the ending, and I assume part two is where Yuu's role got much bigger (what was seen in chapter 26). So yeah, 2 parts.

But I guess I could envision a very well-made, faithful adaptation of this getting a lot of "too slow, nothing happens, bland characters" (or worse) comments on places like the Crunchyroll boards. Undeserved, of course, but I could see it happening . . .

I don't understand why Western opinion should matter.

Could someone edit the volume section? We're in volume 6 now.

This manga has one of the worst writing I've seen in a yuri series ever. I like Yuzu a lot and I feel bad for her, I'd love to take her out of this trash manga and put her in another yuri romance where she can be with a girl who deserves her love, but those are just my delusions. It's so obvious this cheap, poor excuse of an arc will end with Yuzu and Mei married.

Just cause a story has less happy parts and the characters have to go through struggles and hardships doesn't make it bad. You might not like the fact, but it doesn't mean it's awful writing.

Except it's bad writing. Read the manga as a whole so far, the author loves contrived, cheap drama. But she doesn't know how to cause the drama, so she adds a third whole to the scheme (gramps, Matsuri, twins, Harumin's sister, Shirapon, the gramps/fiance again). This happens every arc. It's repetitive, it doesn't make sense how contrived it is, and it's a cheap way to cause drama. I'm fine with a story having sad moments, but this is plain shit-tier writing.

This manga has one of the worst writing I've seen in a yuri series ever. I like Yuzu a lot and I feel bad for her, I'd love to take her out of this trash manga and put her in another yuri romance where she can be with a girl who deserves her love, but those are just my delusions. It's so obvious this cheap, poor excuse of an arc will end with Yuzu and Mei married.

Nara-sensei introduction is interesting. I wonder if she'll scout Touko after seeing her performance & that will give her a career path to work towards in the future instead of becoming her sister.

Like, becoming an actress? I hope not, because it doesn't fit her character. Touko is shy and doesn't like being in front of people. Being an actress sounds more like something the sister wanted to do, considering Ichigaya is an actor/acting coach and was a member of the Student Council along with her. Many characters have mentioned how it doesn't make too much sense that the Student Council is doing a play, so there's that too.

last edited at Feb 7, 2018 9:13PM

I always felt people were misreading that and overreacting. I never thought it was about suicide, but just the aimless malaise of someone who doesn't know who they want to be or what they want to do with their life.

This so much, I can't believe there were people speculating that Touko could try to kill herself or even consider doing it. And the whole train thing or those weird moments with Touko in chapter 23, I see them as a symbolism of her mental state and insecurities,not as symbolisms of a possible bad end. If anything, there are some hints (not so subtle now) that things will be fine.

Well, I suspect that's a kiss happening in panel 4 of page 17. I don't see why you would cut her face out of the frame like that if you weren't implying that something lip related is going on off-panel, and Touko looks pretty stunned in the last panel.

I don't think they kissed, I think that Nakatani was trying to put emphasis on Yuu's hands in the first panel. It would be also out of character for Yuu to do that, in a moment like that and possibly in front of other people around there.

and both are content with just loving her. Rivalry implies that both would aim for the same goal, such as Touko's reciprocation

I think it's inevitable that Yuu will deal with the feelings she has been repressing for a long time after the play is over, same with Sayaka.

Her hand-wringing when the talk of confession was going on a few chapters ago said a lot about what she wants out of their relationship.

Are you refering to chapter 24? Can't really remember anything like this recently.

last edited at Feb 2, 2018 7:50AM

Nothing really happened this month, the real thing starts the next one and the wait is painful, but at last, the play is finally here.
I do wonder if Sayaka's words are meant to be foreshadowing or merely a wish on her part that Touko will end up realising regardless. And she's right, even if the play goes wrong, Touko will learn something from it. Yuu on the other side is nervous and hopes it will be fine. Will the play do well or badly?

last edited at Feb 1, 2018 6:00PM

Is Yagakimi or Citrus more popular over all in Japan?

Yagakimi by far, it has ranked on Oricon (unlike Citrus) and like I posted above, the recent volume is on the top 10 of general manga in Amazon Japan. Pretty mainstream, specially for a yuri manga.