That's also an interesting observation. We know Erika is now a pro actor and that she has 7 years of hiding her feelings from Koto. Her having some commonalities with Aya makes sense. We even see Erika smiling when Aya asks who she likes and says that whoever it is would reciprocate if Erika asks, which would be enough to for many people to start crying or get visibly angry.

To some extent, it is maturity to be able to recognize the right thing to do and be the adult in the room, even when you aren't feeling it. Child Erika wouldn't have been able to do that, even if she had wanted so. There's still a certain degree of fakeness if someone can't extend that level of care to themselves, which fits with Erika being self hating. She is depressed but trying to keep up appearances for reasons that aren't completely clear, other than wanting to keep her job and not be homeless. Likely wanting to support Koto and to hide her guilt / perceived wrong doings both factor into it.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 8:43PM

@Blastaar

I think it’s fascinating the way that people keep conflating the past characters with their present selves, when in some respects they’ve been transformed, while also retaining much of their youthful personalities.

In fact, creating that confusing effect on readers is the only purpose I can think of for the whole supernatural premise in the first place.

The supernatural aspect is what allows one of those three people to have been exactly the same as the past, while the other two have changed. That is really the the unique hook of the series. They then have to reevaluate their viewpoints of each other to account not only for changes, but also misjudgements in the past or developments from ongoing dynamics in the present. Otherwise, this would be a more standard school love triangle.

This is a very interesting way to portray the theme of 'seeing people as they really are', which must be done not only one time but moment to moment. This is also probably why we have so many different interpretations of the characters: people are confusing, contradictory, and often have more going on than it seems at first.

Much like with life, figuring out the truth is difficult. It's much easier to pigeon hole people into a simplified narrative, especially if we can pick one and identify that person with the chosen narrative forever. If people want to do that with the characters in the story, it shows the author has succeeded in capturing an aspect of reality.

@Genevieve

It would be less interesting and unsurprising if it turns out Aya is exactly the ideal person Koto and Erika have been thinking she is. To think the story keeps telling us Aya is really a good actor. I do believe main of the reason she's so good at acting is due to her daily life practicing.

I don't know how many people have noticed but it's Aya's first time to confess her real thoughts in chapter 15. One of her biggest flaw, Aya couldn't just say how she really feels. When she said "Koto, you are able to say how you feel" , she actually mean it lol. Maybe she always considered Koto a far more courageous people than her. It also can explain why Aya chose to break up with Koto.

I forgot when Aya said this, but it's all the way back in chapter 1. This is a good observation. Aya is especially good at portraying a poker face while giving people space to say or do what they want. That can give the appearance that she is more above negative emotions or more aloof than she actually is. She is not really ever dishonest from what we've seen, so she isn't acting in that sense, but she often likes to keep her true feelings and motivations private while the people around her are emoting.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 7:12PM

This is mostly just a feeling, but I think where we're going is that Aya is more selfish than she seems and Erika less selfish than she seems. The conclusion will be that they were both regular people all along, compared to the pedestal Aya was put on by Erika/Koto or Erika's self hate.

The reading of Aya as remarkable and selfless doesn't totally fit to me. She made Koto confess multiple times before giving an answer, she seems to have been testing Koto to see if Koto would still love her (even later thinking, this isn't the love I was looking for or something like that, rather than that being in a relationship like that would be bad for Koto), she was relieved her only surviving family member was dead, and she may have had some role in her disappearance.

This to me reads like someone who is afraid of commitment and emotionally stunted in some ways. This makes sense if we think of her as someone who had to 'grow up fast' to meet her responsibilities and never got to have a typical childhood. A child like that will seem mature relative to other kids who are goofing off, but they can only meet those obligations by neglecting other areas of their life. This would explain her past desire to escape and be free, as she would have felt burdened by all the expectations she had to meet.

It would also explain why she's so disturbed by any hint she's being treated like a child. She can live independently, work a professional job, and more, but she can't give herself permission to be weak or vulnerable. She also hates being reliant on support by others, even though everyone must depend on others even as an adult.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 12:28PM

I got another prediction with this. Chapter 7 near the beginning, Waka (Misa's coworker who wants to be #1) saw Misa with Io and looks very closely at them while Misa comforts Io. This is after the manager/Hase interrupts Io's masturbation.

Waka knows Misa well enough to know that someone relying on her like that is atypical, so they must have some special relationship. It wouldn't be surprising if she noticed something was up when Io peed herself and washed herself at the club, as we would expect her to be observing Misa closely as her rival. It also would be unsurprising if she notices other meetings or interactions between them.

This is a very good in for Hase to mess with Misa. They could try to blackmail Misa with information like that Misa has gone to the pickup club, which was stated to be problematic if the clients found out. It could also be something else. Since it doesn't take much to think that reaching out to the ambitious #2 is the best potential ally, we have a likely future alliance here. That could come up as soon as the next chapter. Enough time was spent on Waka to signal that she will have some role other than pouting in the background.

Honestly, Misa would be fine in some other job, even if her income decreases. She knows she can't stay in that job forever and she's more than capable of working in pretty much any hospitality work. However, this is still good material for guilting Io. They could also make things hard for Misa by leaking her former hostess work to future employers, though I'm sure Misa could find employment in some form.

Misa's only leverage would be messing up Io's career by leaking her own relationship to Io, which would cause problems for both of them. She will likely come up with something, but I'm not sure what specifically. It would be funny if she became Io's manager (she can't be worse than the current mom and manager) to solve both problems, but there's the obvious issue of an ex hostess ruining Io's image.

last edited at Dec 24, 2024 8:42PM

The school is not giving you the role you want, but the role you need. That's all.

That's an idea, but does Hanako (or anyone) "need" to be a seductress?

This is a series about an all girls school being uploaded to dynasty, so clearly.

Though more seriously, having people who can act outside established social dynamics and norms actually is helpful, as otherwise people can become shackled by them or fail to understand how they're limiting their conception of what's possible.

This doesn't mean being a seductress per se (and I think her role is more general than that), but some stereotypical traits of one could be positive in some situations with some people.

This is all child Erika, which I avoided talking about. I think it's clear she was something of an ass as a child, but largely meant well. Whatever she did with Aya was different enough than her regular behavior that it's tormented her this long. Aya herself has commented on how different and how much more responsible Erika is as an adult.

Oh. Has this different and much more responsible adult Erika ever think of apologizing to Aya of what she did to her seven years ago?

No idea, but considering Aya doesn't remember it doesn't seem clear what purpose the apology would serve. Something for us to watch in future chapters. We don't know what Erika would have said if Aya remembered, which Erika did check.

See Fuyuki from There Is No Love Wishing Upon a Star, that's what you should do for your love one. You want them to be happy. Erika only wants her own happiness even as an adult.

I haven't read that one, but I agree in principle that this is the best way to proceed. I also would like that, when insects bite me, I freely offer my de facto limitless supply of blood to these hungry beings. However, I must admit my actual internal response is often resentment. Other people would actually swat them (and sometimes me, if I am letting a mosquito bite me) and I don't hate these people. Working with these kinds of feelings is part of the human condition.

I don't agree Erika only wants her own happiness, though I think most people are primarily motivated by their own happiness. This is why eg empathy is a foundational part of the human social structure (unlike, say, baboons that do well with very little empathy for each other). One's own happiness gets linked to other's well being through the empathetic response, leading to pro social behavior. This is what seems to be going on with Erika to me. If she was unimpacted by Koto's suffering, she likely could have dated Koto for life.

In that sense, to me Erika is neither especially impressive or especially worth of criticism. She is someone very ordinary in an extraordinary situation who engages in a lot of self criticism as a result.

Erika is the murder despite not being her real intention. She led to Aya's disappearance which literally killed middle schooler Koto, the girl who had everything written on her face was also gone with Aya. Have you ever think how a lovely couple Koto and Aya would be if Aya didn't get spirited away? To think my girl do everything she can managed to date the girl of her dream (while Erika doing nothing but blaming Aya for stealing her Koto lol), then losing it out of nowhere all thanks to fucking Erika.

The fundamental issue here to me is that Erika would not have known any of this in advance. Let's say that, as a child, she had actually killed Koto (by which, I literally mean literally), but without knowing or intending that Koto would die. Then she felt tormented by guilt for an entire decade. That would seem like a tragedy, but I wouldn't view her the same as as an an adult committing first degree murder.

A lot of the rest of this is assumptions, eg we don't know the full reason for why Aya disappeared, how their relationship would have gone, etc. The important factor however is that neither did Erika, a child with a limited life experience who did not have all information in the comic.

last edited at Dec 24, 2024 12:50PM

Erika is already suck as hell considering she can't give her approval towards her two best friends relationship. Not only that, she went fighting Aya for daring to accept Koto's confession while she did nothing to tell Koto her feeling, showing she's biggest jerk as their friend. Ofc, there would be explanations from the author telling us Erika is a normal human being thus making mistakes lol. I think l will not be surprised. Just hope one day Koto and Aya can cut off this selfish snake.

This is all child Erika, which I avoided talking about. I think it's clear she was something of an ass as a child, but largely meant well. Whatever she did with Aya was different enough than her regular behavior that it's tormented her this long. Aya herself has commented on how different and how much more responsible Erika is as an adult.

I also don't think not giving your friends your blessing for their relationship when you like one of them is really that bad. Sure, the kindest person would want to give it if circumstances allowed (healthy relationship, not an adult dating a child, etc), but this is a really high standard. Many of us were not there as teenagers. Some of us harbor these kinds of thoughts as adults, but hopefully manage to keep it to ourselves and not act on it.

If you see not giving the blessing as an irredeemable sin then I think you need to say a lot more about what the basis of your morals are and how this goes in conflict with them in an unforgivable way. At least, if you want us to understand you need to do that, given that it's not at the level of something obvious like murder. I do get you have strong feelings. My own life experience thus far has not led to me having strong emotions about Erika.

Yeah, Koto and Erika are similar in that way. The difference is that for Koto it happened with no explanation, so she doesn't blame herself like Erika does. That's why she attempted to date other people. The shock of suddenly losing Aya still made it too hard for her to move on or feel comfortable with any other person, which she likely wouldn't if Aya had broken up with her instead.

"Another way to read Erika’s attitude is that she knows there’s no possibility of a romantic relationship as long as there’s an Aya-shaped hole in Koto’s heart, rather than it being about her feelings of “deserving” Koto’s love."

We do know this is part of her motivation since she essentially said it, but, if she didn't blame herself for Koto's situation, it would still be far easier to find someone else who she wouldn't have this issue with. If Erika subconsciously feels like she can't go off and be happy with someone else while Koto is traumatized then this explains not moving on very well.

If Koto eg was in a happy and fulfilling relationship that led to marriage then I don't think Erika would be hanging around waiting for an unlikely divorce, but her emotions are trapped 7 years ago because Koto's are. Ultimately we will need more chapters before we know if I'm right about this, of course.

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 9:38PM

Maybe someday people on internet forums will be as Aya to each other as Aya is to Koto and Erika.

Though yeah, I do think Erika likely did something bad, given how guilty she is. She doesn't seem like someone who would hardcore blame and punish herself like that for so long for no reason. She's also likely missing information, so it may not be as bad as she thinks, but likely still bad enough to be interesting.

A lot of her "selfish" behavior as an adult is actually pretty reasonable (eg, an adult dating a child is probably a bad idea and something to discourage, it's good to help Aya adjust and make new connections, etc). Even if she has ulterior motives, that's not a reason for her to not do the right thing. We won't really know about her current ethicality until that comes into conflict with her ulterior motives. At that point she'll have to pick one to prioritize, which is when we will see her true colors.

I've said already that I think her true goal is healing Koto and that she doesn't feel like she deserves to even consider dating someone else while Koto is like this. Normally you would move on after that long, no matter how much you liked someone as a kid. Her sense of guilt is the only explanation we currently have for why she hasn't. Even if it turns out to be something else, the author is a good enough writer that there is likely some explanation other than Erika just sucking.

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 8:31PM

I find it confusing you would doubt this since it would be a strange thing for me to lie about on the internet.

In my case, it was local anesthesia (lidocaine iirc) so yes, I was moving around normally. I had numbness directly after, but it faded quickly. I wasn't talking a lot, but I'm the type of person who spends their free time posting on a web 1.0 style forum discussing fringe comics. I talked my typical amount and in fact more than I did today.

We know MCs teeth were more problematic than mine for the reasons you pointed out, but I don't find it that unbelievable that she could take these actions later in the day. People have different pain tolerances and different responses to anesthesia, while we can surmise her procedure was was not very invasive precisely because she could take these actions. Though the dentist may criticize her some for not resting more, especially since not drinking alcohol was something she was specifically instructed not to do.

Edit: There was also one time I had general anesthesia for a different procedure, went to a restaurant, and had spicy Thai food afterward with no ill effect. I was more out of it than with lidocaine, but not to the extent an outsider observer would notice. It give you an idea of what is possible in these types of scenarios. Obviously it's not going to be like this all the time or for all people. I have seen a family member have a far worse response to anesthesia, actually for wisdom tooth removal. Now that I'm older general anesthesia does seem to be a bit harder on me as well. My point is that this varies.

last edited at Dec 20, 2024 9:39PM

Yeah, this breaks my suspension of disbelief. You don't just walk out of dental surgery all put together and pretty. The protagonist can't be shown looking a little messed up even in such circumstances? Is the taboo against not constantly conforming to cisheteronormative beauty standards really that strong?

I hate to take issue with people insisting on realism, but when I had my wisdom teeth removed, all four, I looked basically normal right afterwards. My mouth hurt and I was careful what I ate for a few days . . . uhhh, less careful than I should have been . . . but mostly I was fine. Went to a restaurant and had steak fajitas three days later.
I probably wasn't going to be hitting any bars the same evening, but I LOOKED ok.

Mine was the same, except there wasn't really any pain. My care instructions were just to not dislodge the clot. I could have gone to a bar if I wanted.

Depending on how they grow in, it can be like a normal extraction, just with a bigger hole left afterward. Technically still surgery, but not the type were someone would seem out of it after. It's not like when your wisdom teeth are impacted or similar.

last edited at Dec 20, 2024 7:18PM

Since people instinctively compare themselves to their peers, it's not that strange to use the school is a comparison for "society" when it comes to class. By that, I mean income inequality is a better predictor of various kinds of social ills than wealth itself because if everyone poor then people tend to feel like they're doing decently well. I am kind of experiencing this myself. I live in an area with many immigrants, legal and otherwise, as well as their descendants. I live off what's considered a poverty level income.

I've encountered various peoplewho seem to see me as a destitute person with a difficult life. This is either in other places or with people who are from other places. Still, I can afford a nice place to live, transportation, I can afford entertainment options like museums, etc. I could pick any restaurant at random and likely afford to go there. The reason is that all of these must be set up to be accessible to the people who live here. I therefore have a sense that I'm getting to fully participate in society and not missing out on anything important. I'm curious if that will change if I move and get re-exposed to US income inequality.

If we take the school, the sense of full participation very much does not apply Yuni. She mostly posts on instagram and waits for Nanase. There's lots of free activities she could be doing with other students like hanging out in parks and playing games . However, the social life of the school is not designed around that. Nanase in contrast embraces the school's social life, while Fuuko stays aloof from it for various reasons.

I do think that, if the author really wanted, they could have people 'truly' of these incomes at the same school. For instance, it could be a rich elite school with a scholarship tuition program, making it a burden for Yuni's single mom to simply pay for things like uniforms. If Nanase and Yuni were both on scholarships, that would give them another reason to initially be drawn toward each other despite being a bad fit for each other. It would also explain Nanase's obsession with maintaining her image at school, especially as it pertains to sports where she is fully accepted and admired.

The author not coming up with something like this likely means they didn't intend for us to focus on economic classes this much, despite relative income levels still being treated as story relevant in places like the Osaka arc.

last edited at Dec 20, 2024 9:55AM

If we're going full communist, Karl Marx called this petty bourgeoisie. Essentially, small scale business owners / independent workers who aren't aligned with the interests of the true bourgeoisie. It was believed they weren't a threat, but could potentially cause issues by resisting collective ownership after the revolution or by identifying with the true bourgeoisie.

There's also lumpen proletariat, essentially criminals, and Lenin talked about the existence of a labor aristocracy through imperialism where proletariat in certain countries benefited at the expense of proletariat in other countries. I will leave which characters to assign these roles to the rest of you very committed readers.

last edited at Dec 19, 2024 4:08PM

For what it's worth, I would definitely be uncomfortable if we had a yuri magic pregnancy plotline with the MCs. For now (or up to where I am, I am waiting for Spanish translation to catch up so tell me if if I´m wrong) it's more "technically this exists". We can't know the exact reason it's been mentioned or if they will actually use the technology. I am willing to wait to see where the author goes with this.

The feudal noble dad having some of the same concerns (which can be an understanding coming from prejudice leading to actions motivated by a sincere to help, an honestly dangerous combination) espoused by real life dads do doesn't bother me. It would be weirder to me if they weren't homophobic at all and the feudal nobles were less prejudiced than real life parents in the modern day US. Likely he also feels a need to raise objections other nobles will because the consequences will be harsher for them with any other noble than him.

last edited at Dec 19, 2024 10:19AM

So what? The author still picked a wound by bringing up the topic and then left it uncovered. And for what? What benefit do we get from magical breeding instead of them adopting from that orphanage? I personally find pregnancy and birth topics that I'd like to stay as far away from as possible...

I have been staying out of this topic. I will say that there are quite a lot of people who feel as you do, especially among the LGBT community, but also quite a lot of people who like the topic of giving birth.

If we think about the different emotional associations someone could have based on different life experiences, even among the LGBT community, to me it's clear that neither preference is innately more valid than the other. Your disappointment makes sense, but so would the opposite: someone enjoying seeing the impossible made possible through magic in fiction.

I would like to kindly suggest everyone give each other space to have their own preferences and associations. Those preferences and associations always have more to do with the person in question than any other person. The attempt to reconcile these differences into a universal principle about what's right often fails to do anything good in terms of improving people's lives concretely.

last edited at Dec 18, 2024 6:11PM

@Blastaar

Sure, as imaginary people, Aya is the “best” of the lot—brave, forward-thinking, trying to do the best with the bizarre cards she’s been dealt—while Koto and Erika are both stuck living in the past in different ways and not doing too well at it. But it’s hard for me to see the characters as the equivalent of sports teams, where I’m “rooting” for one over the other.

I haven't read all the comments (forgive me forum, I find it annoying when people ignore comments to respond), but I think it's pretty clear Aya can be this way because she is the only one who wasn't traumatized by her disappearance.

Koto is obvious. Erika has essentially been hanging onto her guilt and punishing herself by not allowing herself to even attempt dating someone else. She knows she ruined Koto and therefore can never feel she deserves anyone else herself (though obviously it's not really her fault because she didn't know she has magic tanabata powers). Koto instead tried to move forward, but never could completely due to the way Aya suddenly disappeared with no explanation.

For Aya much of her past was a burden, so it being gone is a relief. In that sense, her situation is the best one, despite all the problems. To some extent, I think the actual dynamic is more like she's running from her past, ie the abandonment, slowly dying grandparents, etc. She desperately wants to move forward and become an adult who can take care of herself, which technically she already is, legally.

Some speculation, the tanabata magic requires pairs, but it doesn't make sense that would be Koto's that makes Aya disapear. I think it could be that Aya's wish aligned with Erika's. Hers was for Aya to disappear and then reappear, whereas for Aya she wanted to escape to her future and find the different place she was looking for, where she could love someone without fear in a way she couldn't as a middle schooler.

Also re "horse race," I think people wanting some character to "win" comes from identifying with the character to some extent, so they take on that character's desires. Or they imagine themselves as that character and then think about who they would want to be with, which some people are doing with Aya and thinking they'd rather be with someone who can relate to them in a healthy way.

Personally I identify more with Koto so I'd like for her to end up with Aya somehow, but the main thing thematically is for them to fully accept their pasts, ie not rejecting or fleeing from it, and therefore fully be part of their present. The tri-friendship ending where they pursue other people romantically would make the most sense currently, but it could really go any way as long as that happens.

last edited at Dec 5, 2024 3:49PM

I'm not sure if I agree entirely, but I do think you're right about regarding anti-gay societal beliefs leading to the characters being unable to express attraction openly and finding some other outlet. At the very least, that's what's going on in the story, whereas in real life sometimes the original motivating factor something non-sexual that gets reexpressed in a sexual context.

There are still these contexts of people who would be 100% okay with LGBT relationships finding it weird for someone to be sucking on doll legs or where these characters are not fully seeing the people who they think they love. I don't think any of this is really a contradiction. It's more that "the series/title/ is about X" is overly reductive and that this would be a one off instead of a series if the author only had one idea to talk about.

@kinseijoshi

The clay figurine thing is a good point. These characters are so hung up on their "ideal" love that they're unable to see the real people in front of them, to the point of making selfish, shitty decisions. They're all attempting to mold other people into what they want them to be: Meguru into Azuki's lover, Azuki into Yakou's figurine maker, Yakou into Niji's fanfic girlfriend, and everyone into a safe, non-sexual plush for Meguru to cuddle.

This is somewhat insightful into the nature of the story I think. Though the title is clearly a double meaning, where one of them is really about the way these people express affection not matching society’s norms, but a second is likely the way feelings of love itself can manifest in a harmful way (possessiveness, etc). Though so far Yakou is relatively well adjusted compared to the rest of them and likely having a positive impact on Azuki.

I am not at all sure these specific theories about Niji will be correct, but it seems likely that Niji will fit the pattern of possessive/harmful expressions of love that don’t recognize the reality of the other person. Meguru and Azuki clearly both fit this. Yakou is saved by the fact that the objects of her affection are actual objects she can’t harm. She’s however being rather cavalier about what the long term impact of her relationship with Azuki will have on Azuki, as her priority is getting the figurines. I'd expect her being the first person that valued Azuki’s figurine making to be a net positive, but we will have to see about that one.

@meena

this is cheaper than therapy tho

Plus, would a therapist know how to use plastic wrap on clay figurine legs to preserve them so that they can be sucked on for multiple uses? Whether in or out of universe, important information like this can only be found elsewhere.

last edited at Dec 4, 2024 4:51PM

Niji's actions are just subtly weird at this point. Hard to say much about her, but we got the black bleeding panels or whatever that was supposed to be. That's like the manga equivalent of creepy music playing whenever a character shows up, even though they haven't done anything that bad (yet).

Given the themes of the manga, I would say she seems possessive and seems to like criticizing Youku, which could be her own way of expressing affection. But obviously that's harmful if it's down without limits or agreement. It seems like she isn't big on Youku making connections with other people, though it could be romantic ones specifically and she is jealous.

last edited at Dec 3, 2024 7:35PM

Oh nooooo. Everything feels so ominous and nightmarish this chapter. The thing the little girl literally feels like a shame nightmare or something, and it just spirals from there. Not surprised Azuki didn't take this well, hard to process reality properly when it feels so unreal. This chapter goes past drama into being a psychological thriller like Perfect Blue or Black Swan. Fully expecting that if she ever does carve a head for her Clay Megurus they'll start talking to her. Maybe even moving around her apartment.

I have had the "We need to get the kid away from this person" reaction before while with another person. It didn't bother me that much, but in retrospect I think it bothered the other person a lot, who also believed the child only talked to us because I was there. It definitely would be upsetting to someone like Azuki.

We really need Yakou to the rescue here. I don't know what she'll do, but pretty much anything is going to be better than this chapter.

Meguru's reaction to the blood was also interesting. It seems like she has some hangups around body fluids and the like- or, with this manga being like it is, maybe the opposite and what she's uncomfortable with is herself liking it. Normally you would give someone the tissue, not wipe their face and then stare at the blood on you."What you felt is lust and not love" could be what Meguru has been telling herself. Her expression is similar to Yakou's after when the lady was talking about how whoever had the doll is creepy.

Either way, Azuki's ptsd is triggered and she responds by integrating blood because she associates her blood being gross with Meguru now. Everyone here is having a bad time.

This is one of those series that makes me feel better about myself because the characters are about 20% weirder than me. Just don't remind I'm not fictional.

That's actually hilarious. I know the assumptions around delegitimatizing affection between women aren't, but they failed at both that and criminalizing sex work here. It would also make working with female clients especially desirable, I would think.

last edited at Dec 1, 2024 8:07AM

@ Blastaar

As opposed to the one on every street corner in yuri manga. . . .

Well, not in this manga, where we know of exactly one in both Japan and the entire world. You may hedging when the manga, while not realistic, was not quite as unrealistic as you first assumed. Stories normally involve some unusual situation, but unusual and unrealistic are very different.

We did see iirc a restaurant with female waiters in men's clothes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Tokyo had at least one of those too.

@SrNevik

Haha. They're actually really public. It's not really risky.

I meant more so having google searches for lesbian brothels in my search history. Having to explain that one if anyone found out / noticed I did it would be like a real life manga situation for me.

I know second hand that coordinating with clients is often done on the web, generally with no negative repercussions for either party, so you finding something isn't that surprising to me. Nor is at least location existing in a very large city like Tokyo, for that matter. Even if the workers don't exclusively take female clients, I imagine it could be slightly awkward for some to ask a regular escort if they take female clients. Having a venue where potential clients know that's okay would be encouraging for that group, while the worker could still seek additional clients elsewhere if they wanted.

last edited at Nov 30, 2024 7:24PM

SrNevik, I see you're making the risky internet searches so the rest of us don't have to.

I think part of why these over the top, implausible situations are engaging is because they mirror dilemmas we may experience in our own life. The difference is that the manga ones are far more engaging and exciting due to their absurdity, but they're not categorically different than something we might experience with another person ourselves.

An example is two people having different relationships between wearing no or limited clothing, to the point one is confused by the other's actions. That's a real thing people have experienced, even if the specific situation in the manga had piled on absurdities. Most of the situations are like that. If they were totally unrelatable, it would be like reading about aliens or a story about a social species of fish living in a school of fish (where the fish has species realistic emotions, thoughts, and relationships instead of being an anthropomorphic fish).

Sometimes people to do get heated in these discussions. In that case, it's worth remembering that it is fiction and the consequences for not collectively resolving the ethics of the absurd situation are relatively low. When it instead remains a fun thought experiment, I think it's harmless and potentially helpful for some people in some situations to consider.

last edited at Nov 30, 2024 5:40PM

I do like that even more over the top dramatic stories can help us understand real world dynamics, whether just thinking about it leading to insight into someone's real world "character" or realizing that, yeah, my acting like even a toned down version of some particular character would go pretty badly.

Maybe this is less important for other people, but I am autistic and not very good imagining people's emotional states in real time. It can be particularly helpful from that perspective.

last edited at Nov 30, 2024 2:39PM

to be clear, I'm not making any moral statements by calling it "shame". That's just the social term for that discomfort about being seen. I think the amount of particular shame you feel in a particular context, whether high medium or low, is just a personality quirk, not a reflection of morality or trauma or normality or whatever. I had a kidney problem a couple years ago that required seeing a urologist on multiple appointments and then finally surgery. The first time I had to be exposed in front of the doctor and nurse I was a little uncomfortable. By the time they wheeled my half-naked ass feet-first into an operating room with a dozen observing medical students in it I just completely didn't care anymore lol. I'm sure plenty of other people going through that would not get used to it, there's probably people out there who think that OR scene I just described is literally nightmare fuel. There's also people out there who can't empathize with why I was uncomfortable with the first doctor.

I appreciate the lack of moral statements.

In this case, Mashiro not only did show it, but had zero hesitation and did not bother to check with the friend/colleague if it was okay for her to do it. At that point the friend did seem surprised and not entirely comfortable. Not even checking with the other person because it's already that normal to you is somewhere less than "low" discomfort to me. She did it with the casualness of someone pulling out a picture of their cat on their phone.

Anyway, these are all relative statements, so it's not worth getting hung up on them imo. One person's "a lot" is another persons "a little bit". Either's "a lot" could then be made into a "little bit" if a new comparison shows up. This is simply my own frame of reference.

last edited at Nov 30, 2024 8:46AM