The Heir of The Curse refference was good but the rest was meh. At least author tried to make something different. And did they only observe gay couples?

The satellites did seem fixated on the yuri couples.

I have to admit that I just don’t know how useful the hypothetical “if this was het/if the character were a guy” is in analyzing the yuri genre. My sense is that sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t, and maybe it’s more often applicable when discussing the ethics of behavior in general rather than when doing literary analysis of a specific story. But to what extent it is or may be relevant I can’t quite sort out in my head.

The ethics of society influence, the stories, and stories, influence the ethics of society. You can't separate the two.

I certainly don’t think there’s a general rule that “it’s girls, so no problem.” But I also know that a lot of times the answer to the question, “But what if it were a guy doing X?” is that in that case the whole situation would be so utterly transformed that it’s impossible to imagine X happening in the first place.

I can't think of situation where switching the genders involved would change the equation, so much, that situation couldn't happen at all.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 5:05PM

johnb posted:

but she is able to do that because she makes them feel special.

And that is exactly the issue. They feel special, but to Touma, she is just treating them as everyone else, so their definition of "special" and what it means, are vastly different.

Yeah okay. I think we agree that Touma is preying on the girls insecurities. My original point was, that the statement "If everybody is special, then no one is" is wrong. Hahaha Looking back at my post, I think I lost sight of that, a little bit.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 4:46PM

johnb posted:

True, the human brain is better at parallel processing, but I don't think it could handle the trillions of bits of data flooding in every second. Processing huge amounts of data fast, is why we invented the computer, in the first place.

Why are you operating under the assumption that the human brains involved make up the entirety of the computer? Having the ability to turn a disembodied human brain into a computer in the first place, we could certainly supplement that brain with additional processors and such in order to take advantage of the best traits of both.

Nah. An A.I. would be a better choice for the job. The moral, and ethical questions raised, by hacking human beings up, and chucking their body parts into space, aside. Human brains are weak, and squishy. They would need special biological live support. The nutrients would need periodic replenishing. The more I think about it, the more absurd the idea seems.

johnb posted:

Everybody has a part, of who they are, that is different than the usual. That fits the textbook definition of "special ", and
I think that's exactly what those girls want.

They want to be special to Touma, but since everyone is special to Touma, nobody is so there never will be a single girl that is anything more to her than other girls, meaning to Touma none of those girls are actually special, because they are just being their unique selves.

Agreed. The girls all want to be Touma's number one. And Touma uses that to get what she wants, but she is able to do that because she makes them feel special.

johnb posted:

that double standard bothers me.

I think most people here have double standards like that. If it is yuri, it is k or at least it always make it better compare to other options. I know I do and I'm not bothered by it at all since I consider girls superior anyway.

Sex is sex, no matter what genders are involved. A lesbian, who has cheap meaning sex with countless women, isn't pure and innocent, just because she has never been with a man. Conversely, a girl who has had loving sex with her boyfriend, hasn't soiled herself, or thrown her innocence away. I know that, but I want to feel it too.

I also disagree with the quote "If everyone is special, then no one is special" Everybody is special in their own way You just have to find it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's kind of awesome that Touma can see, the beauty, in all girls.

So funny I just remembered about this yesterday. The issue is it invalids the meaning of word "special". If everyone is "special" or "one of a kind" or whatever, then that word really loses its meaning. Obviously everyone is different, but when people say special, they have a very specific meaning in mind, so saying to you everyone is special is pretty much like saying everyone is equal and that is not what those girls want.

Everybody has a part, of who they are, that is different than the usual. That fits the textbook definition of "special ", and
I think that's exactly what those girls want.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 3:47PM

All I want is for Touma-kun to end up falling in love for real with the most plain looking and apathetic girl in school

From what I understand about Touma-kun's character, she would be fine with that. After all her point is, all girls are cute in there own way. It's actually a positive message. Kind of sweet when you think about it.

Not really? I mean, to quote a great genius, "When everybody is special, no one will be..."

This comic is a perfect example of how treating everybody like they're a special precious flower just ends up hurting them, because you may say they're great, but then you turn around and treat them like everybody else, which ultimately means they mean nothing more to you than anybody else.

I also gotta take issue with all the people in this thread making excuses for Touma. It doesn't matter if she's being maliciously manipulative, or if she's just carelessly insensitive, the end result is the same. She's leaving a string of broken hearts in her wake exclusively because she doesn't spend any time thinking about how anyone else feels. She doesn't deserve your excuses, and I'd bet she knows exactly what she's doing. Yuki tries to get closer, and Touma just brushes her off with a smile. She comes and literally begs to have her feelings acknowledged, and Touma literally laughs it off with an insincere "sorry".

If this character was a guy, would any of you guys be this forgiving of that kind of callous behavior? Somehow I doubt it.

She's a player because she's playing with girl's hearts, and it's tearing up at least some of them. I mean there's Yuki, obviously, but also you can see the tension fall over the rest of them when Touma says Yuki is special, before she completely invalidates the compliment by spreading it to everybody.

This girl is the worst.

You're totally right. If Touma was a boy I would have hated his guts, and the fact is, that double standard bothers me.
But, I don't feel sorry for the girls, who fall in love with her. They knew what Touma was like going in. It's like teasing a growling dog, then getting mad, at the dog, when it bites.
I also disagree with the quote "If everyone is special, then no one is special" Everybody is special in their own way You just have to find it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's kind of awesome that Touma can see, the beauty, in all girls.
I do agree, that Touma is broken. She obviously is having trouble forming normal bonds. Maybe that's one reason why she is so popular. Girls can't seem to resist a beautiful, broken boy(girl). They delude themselves, into thinking, their love can fix what's wrong. That's why the misunderstood bad boy is such a popular trope

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 5:24AM

I honestly can't tell if Hishikawa has a genuine shot with Komaki, or if this just a yuri gag manga, that is going nowhere.

All I want is for Touma-kun to end up falling in love for real with the most plain looking and apathetic girl in school

From what I understand about Touma-kun's character, she would be fine with that. After all her point is, all girls are cute in there own way. It's actually a positive message. Kind of sweet when you think about it.

I absolutely hate when girls fall hard for a male player. For some reason, it doesn't bother me, as much, when the player is a girl, though. I wonder why?

In this manga i would say that Touma dosn't realise what she is doing and isn't manipulating the girls (on purpose) for her own gain, her idea that everyone is her special girl is what she truly thinks.

My point is, that if Touma was a boy I would have hated him, and I would have felt that Yuki dirtied herself, doing those things with Touma. But, because they are both girl, I don't mind what happened at all. I find it strange that I have such a double standard.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 4:32AM

Becoming immortal, and existing for eternity among the stars. Destind to be together, with the one you love, for ever, but just out of each other's reach. That sounds like a divine punishment from the gods. Honestly, who would choose an existence like that. To me that's a fate worse than death.

Yeah this is basically what I got from the story too. Plus the fear of finding out what would happen if their love didn't last forever.

Falling out of love, up there, would suck. It would be a total Paradice by the Dashboard Light scenario.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 2:35AM

What a coincidence. I just reread the first chapter earlier today.
I absolutely hate when girls fall hard for a male player. For some reason, it doesn't bother me, as much, when the player is a girl, though. I wonder why?

Eh, I didn't like it. I maybe would have bought the premise more if they'd gone through thousands of years, but a few decades? They basically didn't like being satellites/having machine bodies and regretted it. Nothing to do with "eternal" whatever crap. It was a few decades, and they wasted their mission whatever it may have been. Lame.

they were absorbing knowledge of everything. learning everything. that's billions of people worth of knowledge, it was almost like living an eternity and then some. That'd be a lot to take on for anyone.

Well they have human brains and the brain can't do that. It didn't look to me like they were experiencing everything, but being used in the process, you see them metaphorically reading tapes, like they can pick out information to look at--not that they were actually experiencing everything. Their personalities would have been instantly obliterated if they experienced everything even for a second, lol.

The human brain seems like a lousy choice, for that kind of work. The brain just could not handle that much data flow. A regular computer, with massive storage, would be perfect that purpose. Come to think of it. Why the heck would they put something like that in space, where it's vulnerable to space hazards? Shouldn't stuff like that be built in underground bunkers.

The human brain, currently, is actually much better at parallel processing than a computer.
One might imagine that aspect was why a human brain was incorporated.

True, the human brain is better at parallel processing, but I don't think it could handle the trillions of bits of data flooding in every second. Processing huge amounts of data fast, is why we invented the computer, in the first place.

First one was good. Second... eeeeehhh.. Never was too keen on the bisexual tag. Also fooling around with guys is, for me, kind of unpleasant.

Yeah, I know what you mean. especially when they seduce the poor virgin, with all their dirty het experience.

Becoming immortal, and existing for eternity among the stars. Destind to be together, with the one you love, for ever, but just out of each other's reach. That sounds like a divine punishment from the gods. Honestly, who would choose an existence like that. To me that's a fate worse than death.

last edited at Mar 24, 2018 6:36PM

Eh, I didn't like it. I maybe would have bought the premise more if they'd gone through thousands of years, but a few decades? They basically didn't like being satellites/having machine bodies and regretted it. Nothing to do with "eternal" whatever crap. It was a few decades, and they wasted their mission whatever it may have been. Lame.

they were absorbing knowledge of everything. learning everything. that's billions of people worth of knowledge, it was almost like living an eternity and then some. That'd be a lot to take on for anyone.

Well they have human brains and the brain can't do that. It didn't look to me like they were experiencing everything, but being used in the process, you see them metaphorically reading tapes, like they can pick out information to look at--not that they were actually experiencing everything. Their personalities would have been instantly obliterated if they experienced everything even for a second, lol.

The human brain seems like a lousy choice, for that kind of work. The brain just could not handle that much data flow. A regular computer, with massive storage, would be perfect that purpose. Come to think of it. Why the heck would they put something like that in space, where it's vulnerable to space hazards? Shouldn't stuff like that be built in underground bunkers.

last edited at Mar 24, 2018 4:36PM

so cute, but I'm not sure how much futher it can go without crossing into forbidden territory.

So she kissed a girl without dumping her boyfriend
Stop writing bi girls as sluts

I think she did break off with him before the kiss. Granted, it is sort of implied, rather than explicitly shown, but I think it is a pretty safe bet.

Running out on her date was a pretty clear breakup message, to me.

So Oshimi forgot about the track meet. Made a date with her (shutter) boyfriend. Then dramatically walked out on the date, when she finally remembered the meet. Only to be too late, to watch Mutsuki run. Epic fails right across the board.
I know, the author wrote the date walk out scene, to show Oshimi choosing Mutsuki over her boyfriend. but, honestly, how obsessed could Osimi be with Mutsuki, if she forgot about the track meet, in the first plase?

It storys, like this, that keeps me from giving up on the Aaaaaangst tag.

Okay that was cute.

It took me awhile to recognise the song. But when I did, I remembered I liked it. To bad Spotify only has a crappy remake.

Japanese take the saying "swapping spit" way too literally .

last edited at Mar 15, 2018 2:28AM

Good story with pretty art. I enjoyed most of it but, like others said, there were a few confusing parts... like, for one, why did Yuuri have all those pregnancy tests anyway? Also, didn't Rikako only find out at the very end that Yuuri was gay...? How did she introduce girls to her before if she only found out jsut then? Or did she just find out that Yuuri had a GF at the very end?

After reading through several times, my guess is that Yuuri already confessed to Rikako a while back (and was rejected). Rikako seems like the kind of person who refuses to let something like that come between friends, which is why it upset her when Yuuri became distant anyway.

I hope Rikako didn't know how Yuuri felt about her. It seems really cruel for Rikako to talk about sex, with her boyfriend, with Yuuri, when she knew that Yuuri was in love with her. Talk about twisting the knife.

Wait, that was a guy? I just figured it was one of those "prince-type" girls!

I know right. I am so use to yuri stories taking place at all girl schools. I just assumed that Nanase was a girl. I didn't figure out he was a boy, until a I read the story a second time.

I never saw him as anything but a male, and you guys have made me go back to check out why I thought that. I think it’s mainly body language and details of the haircut: they just read “boy” and not “boyish” to me. For example, pg. 407, top panel—that’s the body outline of a guy (I’m not saying there aren’t women in real life with that silhouette, just that I’ve never seen one in this style of manga).

Now, the head-on shot in the middle of pg. 414 could definitely be a yuri “prince” type. But Nanase is almost always drawn a bit rougher and schlubbier than that.

I often have trouble with japanese names and gender. I thought I remembered an anime girl named Nanase before, so I assumed it was a girl's name.

last edited at Mar 13, 2018 6:53PM