XenonVoid posted:

And I know plenty of religious people who are well-versed in psychology due to practicing it themselves, and they would wholeheartedly disagree with you on that. But since I don't reflect their opinions myself, I'll stop that in its tracks for the moment.

Those people are vastly outnumbered for a reason though. Fields of science aren't immune to errors or people who are supposed to be experts in their field yet are still flat out wrong. There's more and more evidence as time goes on that those who are against the current methods of handling transgenderism are simply wrong. There's enough currently that there's no reason at all to believe them or even consider what they have to say on the subject. (Unless they have something that hasn't been repeated a thousand times already though they're still unlikely to have anything to say that's going to prove that the current methods of handling it are wrong.)

Actually, the majority of people who argue against anti-trans stuff are not necessarily trans themselves, though some of them naturally are. What they are, however, is liberal, and liberals in general (not all of them) preach about tolerance in addition to being supremely intolerant of those who disagree with them.

I think you might have partly misread what I was saying. Note that I specified online as I have little personal experience discussing transgenderism with people offline outside my own friends and family. (So I can't speak for offline.) I also specified that it was that way but it's changing. In my experience it's really only been the last year or so that people who aren't transgender have really defended transgender people at all in most places.

What they are, however, is liberal, and liberals in general (not all of them) preach about tolerance in addition to being supremely intolerant of those who disagree with them.

I can't really disagree there, a lot of people who identify as liberal definitely are quite intolerant, but that doesn't really seem very relevant to the conversation to me.

XenonVoid posted:

Saying it like that makes it pretty hard for people who don't agree with you to be able to defend themselves without sounding like the bad guy, even though they usually just have different opinions from you. A lot of the people who disagree with the concept of transgender are going to be science majors or people who are already scientists (especially those who focus on human biology/anatomy), which makes them more educated than you appear to be. Note that I base this solely on your grammar in the post, not because of the things you were saying.

Transgenderism has nothing to do with biology or anatomy and everything to do with psychology. So those scientists could hold those opinions but they'd be entirely wrong and their training is irrelevant to the subject since transgenderism does not pertain to their field.

While it's becoming more common that it's not the case as people actually get educated on the subject, online at least you're going to find that a majority of people who are arguing against anti-trans stuff (even if those sentiments are out of simple ignorance) are typically transgender people in the first place. So having someone deny what they know to be true, even if they don't mean anything by it, is obviously not going to get a very polite response most of the time. (This is an issue exacerbated by the swarms of legitimate assholes and trolls who like to pop up in conversations like that too, though that bit is at least less of a problem here of all places.)

We preach so much about tolerance of all types of people, yet in doing so, we become remarkably intolerant of people who don't agree with our viewpoint.

I can agree with this bit though it's not really relevant in this case.

ShockingParties posted:

This gives me great Honey and Honey flash backs. It has the same amazing charm to it.

After having read through what's already been translated, it feels a lot like Honey and Honey both in general tone and art style. Quite an interesting read so far. Definitely can't wait for the rest of it to get translated.

muteKi posted:

I haven't dug too deep into Honey & Honey, but I think if you liked that, you'll also enjoy this.

Sounds good to me then. Maybe I'll have to add this to my subscribed list rather than my to-read-later one even though it's one that sounds like I'd rather wait until it's finished before getting to it.

I missed this one until now. Is this something like Honey and Honey but with a focus on a transgender character instead of lesbian ones? If so I'll definitely have to keep an eye on this one and give it a read at some point.

Nezchan posted:

There are any number of ways to cope with that, including (but not necessarily) hormones and surgery. Not everyone who's transgender feels it to the same degree, either, so that's something else to keep in mind. There's a wide range of degrees and responses.

And not everyone who's transgender necessarily feels the need to transition. (Or at least feels that transitioning wouldn't be enough for them or is otherwise a hassle in their case.) Edit: Rereading that it feels like I really butchered what I was trying to say, lol. Hopefully you get what I mean though.

last edited at Feb 21, 2016 9:28PM

Derpalot_ posted:

You dont just abandon family like that. Its painful and its not fixed with just one call. Honestly, i ended up really hating her because yeah she put up with a lot of shit but destroying a family and choosing a man over her sisters is so god damn stupid.

I'm not one to say you absolutely have to stick with family however shitty they are but she was definitely the one in the wrong here. Destroying another family then doing the exact same thing to her siblings that their own father did to them is extremely scummy. Especially when it's very clear that her siblings did in fact mean well.

Going to split this up to make it a bit easier to see what bits I'm responding to.

takachi posted:

Alice, as much I'd love to agree with you about the privacy protection, you clearly miss one important point. FBI can still invest into creating a back-door themselves.

I'm not missing this point at all. It just wasn't really relevant to what I was arguing. If the FBI wanted to do this then that's completely up to them. I'd still disagree with it and definitely think it wouldn't help at all in this case however.

Your absolute belief in security as something unbreakable is purely theoretical unfortunately. Every software has bugs. I'm telling this to you as a 10-year professional tester with a degree in IT from one of the best Maths/IT unis in the world

(Snipped for brevity.)
I'm not saying it's unbreakable. I'm saying in this case there's nothing that can actually be done. What the FBI are demanding in this case requires the phone to be unlocked so they can push an update to it or it requires a backdoor to already be in place. (Or a security exploit that can bypass the lock screen altogether but if they want that then Apple's not really the one to be asking here since they'd have patched something like that as soon as possible.)

This is precisely the reason why giving away information about yourself in the net, to Apple/Google/Facebook/wherever makes it prompt to hacking and getting stolen no matter the security concerns. So the only real way to secure your privacy is not to give the info. It may look to you extremely conservative and outdated, but that is essentially the sad truth.

It actually doesn't look outdated and conservative to me. I personally avoid that sort of thing whenever I can.

And in this case, Apple quite literally use PR, trying to get them the image of not being Evil. Which is not that bad, of course. But really, it's a lot more about politics, business success, than it is about privacy that they care about.

Of course. I should probably make my stance here a bit more clear. I actually intensely dislike Apple. I think they're a pretty scummy corporation. I just happen to agree that their actions here are the right ones regardless of their actual reasoning for doing so behind the scenes.

Personally I'd probably still prefer that FBI invested themselves to design the back-door they needed without Apple's help though. So I guess it's their way of getting some budget pie from the government. But even if they manage to get that back-door done themselves, it can still leak to public. Because, well, it's still people who work in FBI. So eventually, it'll be more money people's taxes spent this way, and time lost for the court.

If the FBI want to try then they should feel free to. As I mentioned above I still disagree with it but in that case it's really up to them.

This can of course also improve security overall, if they publish results about the found issues similar to how Google have done it so far. So it's still probably a better alternative, but clearly a more expensive one. And with a risk of them never publishing such reports.

Only if they publish it however. With an intelligence agency the chances of them doing that is pretty unlikely since publishing information on it means there's a much higher chance of it getting fixed. (Which is pretty stupid since anyone who stumbles across it can exploit it for malicious means meaning they'd probably protect more people by helping get it patched in the first place.)

Let's see how this evolves.

Of course, but I don't see Apple helping nor do I see the Supreme Court (if this issue ever gets that far) ruling against Apple here. If the FBI want into the phone they're going to have to do it themselves.

last edited at Feb 18, 2016 8:43PM

jmv posted:

Wow! u claimed u r no expert yet saying it is impossible for you to be wrong here. This matter has ended yet u made a judgement against me. Okay if that makes u happy.

You don't need to be an expert on a subject like this to know whether something is impossible or not. You just have to actually know what you're talking about. Which you don't. Though with the way you're resorting to just shitposting more and more I'm starting to think you're just a troll rather than an idiot. Not that there's much of a difference between the two.

jmv posted:

wrong abt what? wrong abt being optimistic? Abt hoping there is more than one way to resolve the issue? Ofc I dont know if it is possible or not. That is why I said I HOPE. I hope there's other way to break into that phone. If indeed there's no alternative way, that proved u r right & I had false hope.

Let me try to explain this as simply as possible. You are saying you don't have the knowledge necessary to make a judgment on this. That is you and ONLY you. Just because you are lacking that knowledge does not mean that all of us are. I can tell you with absolute certainty that what the FBI is asking of Apple is physically impossible. There is no way for Apple to help the FBI break into this phone. Literally the only way is for the FBI to try and brute force it or obtain the passcode from the phone's owner.

This isn't something that has a possibility for me being wrong here. You just seem to think that your ignorance on the subject means there's somehow magically possibilities that don't in fact exist.

jmv posted:

u insisted on there would be no ways aound it. I say we dont know it yet so we shall see.

This is one of the places that you really need to just accept you're wrong. You clearly don't have any expertise on the subject so you don't know whether it's possible or not. I'm definitely no expert on the subject but I do have quite a bit of experience so I do know what is and isn't possible here. What the FBI is asking is impossible in this case and while possible for future cases if Apple takes action it, as I've repeatedly said, opens up innocent people to abuse and hacking.

Orangey posted:

I would quite like one day in a student-teacher manga for the bff to actually be like "um no don't do out with a student, you could get fired" instead of always pushing for the two to get together.

From my understanding that sort of thing isn't actually illegal in Japan so you'd be unlikely to see that happen.

jmv posted:

u know I don't think you're wrong. I see your points n others as well.

You should really make that a lot more clear then because everything you've said up until now has suggested otherwise.

jmv posted:

I heard congress is going to address cyber privacy issue soon. They probably are going to vote on a new law. Like after 9/11, they passed the patriot act.

The thing is you cannot have surveillance and keep things private. Cybersecurity simply cannot work in a way that allows both. If it allows surveillance then the security is a completely moot point because anyone with knowledge or time can work their way through it.

And the Patriot Act has been commonly accused of being unconstitutional as it is. It only ever got through Congress as a kneejerk reaction to 9/11 in the first place.

There's really only two outcomes here. We continue to respect privacy and quit with all this bullshit about surveillance agencies wanting backdoors and decryption keys for stuff, or we allow backdoors and decryption keys and such and while we may not terribly quickly see abuse of these things from official sources (mostly because, especially at first, people are going to be very wary of any potentially abusive surveillance) you can be guaranteed that there will be plenty of third parties who will work hard to prove why this was a stupid idea in the first place. The end result is basically the same really, privacy will have to be respected. Just one way will damage the well-being of plenty of innocent people before that happens.

jmv posted:

Time will tell right? It is kidda moot point to go back and forth. Let's see how thing pans out.

"I can't counter this and don't want to admit I'm probably wrong here so let's meet in the middle so I don't lose face." At least exit the argument with some dignity ffs.

jmv posted:

are you an apple engineer? How could u know 100% that there is no alternative? I am not a tech savvy so I cannot offer an alternative. I rarely see anything absolute. So I believe there is an alternative to this. Well I have expressed my personal view on this issue. If u believed opposing the government is the optimal choice than trying to work out a solution to benefit the whole nation then it'd be fine too.

I don't need to be an Apple engineer. All you need to be able to tell that what the FBI is asking is impossible is some programming knowledge and knowledge of how operating systems work on even a theoretical level.

There is no alternative to this. It is literally physically impossible to implement any workaround to allow the FBI into the phone. ANY workaround would have to either utilize a backdoor (which doesn't exist, hence this situation) or would require an update to the operating system which would require the phone to be unlocked in the first place. (And thus is a completely moot point since that's the entire goal here in the first place.)

And even if they did implement a backdoor into the operating system you should refer to what I said earlier about opening up the door for abuse and hackers. There is no solution here which doesn't screw over innocent people so the only actual solution is to not put a backdoor in it at all and keep things strongly encrypted.

jmv posted:

If apple thinks the request is unfeasible then propose an alternative.

Such as what? The whole point of strong security on a device is so that people can't access it. It's a completely moot point if the manufacturer can manage to bypass it because then it means ANYONE will be able to figure it out. The only way that security like this can actually work is to not allow it to be bypassed in any form. Which is what Apple has done here. So even though they made the phone and the operating system they are just as incapable of bypassing the phone's security as the FBI are.

jmv posted:

I was thinking apple can help the FBI break into the shooter's iphone then create an update to secure other iphones. The shooter is going to jail to pay for the crime. The info in the phone is important. That info can help the us fighting terrorists or mitigating/preventing future attacks. This could create precedent.

So Apple should ruin the encryption they already put in place to prevent abuse just long enough so that the FBI can have their way and Apple will have to find a new way to deal with encryption? That's kinda... Yeah...

And anyways the request is unfeasible to begin with. Apple cannot target one phone for updates and even if it could the phone cannot update while locked. So they physically cannot bypass the encryption here.

jmv posted:

I heard a bit abt it. It is so freaking tough when it involves combating terrorism. there must be more than one way to resolve the issue. Fbi just wants to get into the shooter's phone right? Let's see how the privacy issue will pan out in congress. They will have to address the issue soon.

It's not tough at all. Apple installing a backdoor, even on just one single phone, opens up the door for abuse and security issues thus making any encryption on the phone literally useless in the first place. The guy they're investigating is already going to jail for multiple murders regardless of whether Apple helps here or not.

Thor posted:

It's not a big deal for you, obviously, but it is a big deal for others. And if changing the tag helps others, is more accurate, and resolves the controversy, why not do it? Why not err on the side of being considerate? It costs nothing other than 3 seconds of someone's time to change the tag . . . which is far less time and effort than it takes to argue against it.

No, it's really just not a big deal period. People are massively overreacting. It's kinda ridiculous how childish some of the people on this site act all the time, lol.

yurinaissance posted:

Geez I am waiting for update

http://status.yuriproject.net/
http://status.yuriproject.net/needs-ed.php

Type "frag" into the first searchbox on the first page or just into the only one on the second page. There's two in-progress chapters, one of which looks to just be waiting on quality checking. If you're going to complain about it then maybe try doing something productive such as actually trying to help get it released sooner.

Well that happened. It had nice art but wasn't really my thing. Also I don't really think Homura's a masochist. She's definitely a passive person and would probably be willing to do nearly anything Madoka wanted her to but I don't see her actively wanting to do stuff like the first bit of this.

Nezchan posted:

Probably not a good idea to buy from Mangagamer for a bit.

Kinda annoying that useless greedy morons can't exercise any self control and have to ruin things for everyone else. Two games on there that I'm waiting to get now. Kindred Spirits and Kara no Shoujo's sequel which is only sold on MG as far as I'm aware. (And which I wasn't aware had been translated and released yet.)

ciega posted:

ummm, more like used toys in credits page

Clearly that's an actual penis and she just cut/tear it off whoever happened to own it previously.

KaguraMikazuci posted:

someone will translate further chapters?

.

Alice Cheshire posted:

Someone will probably eventually pick it up though. If nothing else then once Comprehensive Tovarisch is done I might have a go at it myself if nobody else has picked it up by then. That could be awhile though because there's 8 or more chapters left in Comprehensive Tovarisch that I know of. (Also I still have stuff I should do for Kawaii Scans as well, it's just on the back burner for me currently since the person who volunteered to typeset for Comprehensive Tovarisch kinda flaked out on us leaving me to learn it myself.)

You could at least try reading the most recent page before asking questions like this.

Edit: Also to elaborate on what I said in the quoted post. If I end up working on it myself it's going to be awhile. Probably not before summer at the earliest.

last edited at Feb 15, 2016 11:35AM

oguzhan96 posted:

Isn't duckduckgo a deep web site. I remember seeing something like that.

DDG is a search service that basically anonymizes your Google searches. I think there's a deep web version of it but it's not actually a deep web site.

I finally got around to actually reading this. It was surprisingly good. I was expecting something a lot more random and aimless than that.