Although Babylon's theoretical motives are kind of positive, my understanding is that that is not who they have been killing. To the contrary, they have been attempting to keep things calm so that change can (in theory) happen naturally in the longer term, by killing refugee leaders who agitate too much.

You said this in two different comments, but where did you get that idea?

I suppose it's open to SOME interpretation, but I got it from this line:
"Our influence exists only because we sow accidents among the refugees, namely those who threaten the peace or otherwise prove detrimental to the administration"
"Even if it means condemning them to oppression and exploitation?"
"They will not remain outsiders forever"

That kind of sounds to me like what I was talking about.

Right, yeah, that's what I thought, but reading it again is starker. The organization is definitely a force for the status quo, and huge assholes, either way. They clearly don't have a problem with murder and seem to believe in some long-term assimilation or something. I mostly got the positive part from how the Bishop states that they both started with the hope of helping the refugees, but disagreed over methods. So I assumed that was still the goal.

I really don't understand why campaigning for change, but not through violence is ever considered being "a force for the status quo", which is 100% why I can't agree with any of you. If it's not a violent revolution, it's not worth it? Some things just take time.

While I do think Babylon is hypocritical since they kill people, there is a world of difference between murder and war, though.

"trust me dress up like the woman who broke her heart it will be hilarious"

Yeah, that's got me wondering whether any of the women at the bar are actually her friends...

Although Babylon's theoretical motives are kind of positive, my understanding is that that is not who they have been killing. To the contrary, they have been attempting to keep things calm so that change can (in theory) happen naturally in the longer term, by killing refugee leaders who agitate too much.

You said this in two different comments, but where did you get that idea?
We've seen Rose killing a drug dealer, and Babylon themselves have said they are killing criminals, so ... why are you getting the idea they're oppressing the refugees when their stated goals are literally the opposite of that?

Edit: In my head, I was relating your opinion to your politics (i.e. the idea that the church has that violence is literally the only way to enact change, so anyone against that is a bad guy), but then I realised it seems like they want to take out "influential leaders" by wanting to take out some of the church.
But they want to take out the church literally only because the church has that dirt on them and is trying to take them down. Now maybe with a side of armed revolt. So no, it's not them killing people who are influential leaders.

last edited at Jul 14, 2023 8:19PM

"The Church" in manga and anime honestly bears barely any resemblance to the real thing. It's kinda like talking about the Roman Empire as depicted in scifi story as alien races or something; it's a vague model, it copies certain iconic elements, but it's otherwise just completely it's own (made up) thing.

"The Church" in most stories is usually just a skeleton construct of "an institution", lol. Reality is boring ;)

Aw. it's cute you think this is going to be a "balm on a reader's heart" instead of the inevitable flood of comments hating on a story with tags they clearly already hate, so why are they reading it, lol.

I'm just glad Daphie doesn't let the comments get to them, and keeps translating the works that they enjoy and want to share.

and saying this another way, I hope you know there are plenty of us in the community that appreciate your efforts Daphie!

Thank you for this! Yes, I always strive to not let others bring me down. I just love age gap stories, it's a big part of my enjoyment of manga, so I'm doing what I can so others who also appreciate that can enjoy good chapters!!!

And you're welcome ^_^

I also very much appreciate you and like these kinds of stories. Something can be wholesome in a story that would be inevitably not-so in real life. In a story, it's just fluffy and everything works out right, and no one has awful intentions (unless it's the opposite kind of story, of course).

But there are a lot of cultural mores besides marriage where people feel like they don’t have any “choice” (if they want their family’s approval, if they want to fit in with their culture, etc.).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. "It's a different culture" doesn't mean it's okay to force someone to marry some guy chosen for them or be ostracized by their family and the rest of the society they live in. You could also say that homophobia, institutionalized rape or inherent sexism are part of some cultures, and that's still not acceptable.

I don't see how any opinion that marriage shouldn't be free can be seen as acceptable. There are cultures where parents can act as matchmakers, which is completely okay, but the systematic pressure to accept such matchmaking "or else", like what Makino's parent are showing here, is not.

This is an argument that I've gotten into in Dynasty comments before. Because people don't seem to be able to understand the difference between "forced" and "obligated".
You don't have to follow family obligations, no. But some people actually do see family obligations as important, and that's where I get so frustrated at people being unable to look past their own cultural hangups.

Clearly, no one absolutely has to follow their family obligations. People have a lot of other options, and in a manga, they usually take them. For instance here, we're under no illusions that our MC is going to quietly follow what her awful parents want.
But in a hypothetical other story[cough, Sheep Princess, cough cough], if the family is trying to arrange something they actually see as the best interests of the child that they love, and that child chooses to forsake the romantic ideal of love or whatever for the sake of their family's needs, that is not the wrong decision for them to make, despite what Dynasty commenters seem to think.

last edited at Jul 12, 2023 11:08AM

Aw. it's cute you think this is going to be a "balm on a reader's heart" instead of the inevitable flood of comments hating on a story with tags they clearly already hate, so why are they reading it, lol.

Arrrrgggggh, my heart is going to give out. Too cute!!

God how I fuckin hate these forced marriage nonsense. I know it won't go anywhere considering the story of this manga, but still, roll my eyes every time this trope is brought up

Arranged marriages were common across the entire world. I don't know how relevant they are for Japan's elite families, but obviously there's enough cultural memory for it to work for the intended audience.

Yeah, the original comment gave me the vibe of, like, tell me you don't care to understand other cultures while not telling me you don't care to understand other cultures.
Being all [eyeroll] at the idea of arranged marriages is basically like, I can't believe that all stories aren't written specifically for me and how I view the world.

Lol.
"Yvonne got straight to the point and placed the empty bottle on the table, pushing it towards the perpetuator."
... I believe you meant perpetrator ;)
Perpetuator isn't actually a word according to my spellchecker on my computer here. I thought it might have been a different word based on perpetuate (different from perpetrate), but apparently not.

Well, I guess they couldn't just have a standard detective mystery section in the middle of this manga without it having some weird forced sex in there. That's what this manga is all about, after all.
But it's still weird.

I feel that it has become eternal
Zzz

It's a bit like that. We were on a cracking pace for about 20 chapters, then we came to a screeching halt with multiple chapters of the same hour-long date.

I kind of love how they're not actually after Rose, and she is therefore super confused about what's going on.

Looking at it from a meta perspective, I think it's an instance of the mangaka needing some drama, reaching into their Great Big Bag of Tropes, and pulling out the first thing they grabbed without considering just how many people would regard it as crossing a fairly significant line. It's values dissonance, like I mentioned upthread.

I can't say I disagree, but you are missing my point: the commenters here are like, how dare this ever happen in a manga, how can Ruriko be so awful, this is totally out of character, violence is never the answer, she should have pushed her away, etc.

This being "a trope" is exactly my point. It was being used to get across the point that Ruriko didn't just playfully be like, hehe no, stop. It was a record-scratch moment, where Ruriko completely rejected the advance in a way that could not be interpreted any other way but "don't ever touch me". (We know different, but to be on the receiving end of it with no explanation, it was a complete shutdown). To be all like "in real life, this wouldn't happen/this would be a bad thing to do" is beside the point. Ruriko likely feels exactly as bad about this as she should, but has no idea about the effects of it because she thought this was just some drunk play or something.

I didn't realise because I thought it was a completely normal story point.
Guys, guys, Dynasty Commenters who always overreact to everything: stop being so melodramatic. This is a story, and the slap was the best way to get across the drama of the situation. Pushing her away would absolutely have not got the point across that this was trying to make.
That, and she probably didn't slap her that hard, you drama queens. It's only as bad as someone giving you a non-consensual kiss in the first place, it wasn't "violence"

Nobody is being melodramatic. We just think slapping people is bad. You yourself agree, because when you slapped two people, you felt regret, you tried to make amends, and you resolved not to do it again.

And hey, that's grown-up shit right there. That's how a mature adult handles their business when they make a mistake, and I got nothing but respect for it.

But obviously you think you did something wrong by slapping those two people. Why else would you be so contrite?

I wasn't saying that Ririko did "nothing wrong", just that y'all are reacting like she took a big swing and smacked her across the face, or punched her and left a bruise. This wasn't a domestic violence situation, this was a "how dare you" situation.
And yes, I felt bad that I slapped someone, I didn't feel like "oh damn, I'm the worst person in the world, how dare I use violence in such a heinous way".

Also, heck, for one of them, I apologised, but you know what? I don't think that it was the totally wrong reaction to slap someone that time they grabbed my ass as a joke, so you know. Perspective. We both did wrong, and the girl I slapped was like, fair enough, I'm sorry too.
(the time I was a stupid teenager and slapped someone because I was angry, that, I did feel awful for, because I was the only one in the wrong. Two totally different situations, just FYI).

last edited at Jul 4, 2023 10:17AM

I didn't realise because I thought it was a completely normal story point.
Guys, guys, Dynasty Commenters who always overreact to everything: stop being so melodramatic. This is a story, and the slap was the best way to get across the drama of the situation. Pushing her away would absolutely have not got the point across that this was trying to make.
That, and she probably didn't slap her that hard, you drama queens. It's only as bad as someone giving you a non-consensual kiss in the first place, it wasn't "violence"

I love these two idiots so much.

There's no way, after spending this much time together, going to classes, and all this other stuff, that Elsa doesn't recognise the name "Smollet" when she starts going to the school?

The use of "Lady Smollett" out loud around Elsa was a translation mistake and it will be changed/noted in future chapters. Originally, no one uses any part of Yvonne's name when referring to her. They always refer to her by a generic title. For example Linda always calls her "my lady" and the others call her something like "the young lady". So Elsa doesn't know her first name or what family she's from.

Apologies for the confusion.

Well that answers that question then, haha. I did notice that previously the ladies were calling her "my lady" or similar, I thought the teacher just wasn't on the same page and was throwing her name around everywhere.

This makes is more of a minor plothole than anything wrong with the actual story, but the prince wouldn't have turned up and never once used her name, lol.

Look, I need to preface this comment to say that I do love this arc. It's very cute, there's lots of smiles and closeness and encouragement... BUT ... it is kinda, ruining the already established story?
There's no way, after spending this much time together, going to classes, and all this other stuff, that Elsa doesn't recognise the name "Smollet" when she starts going to the school?
Unless,
1. The thing that Evie is changing in the timeline is that Elsa immediately remembers her and pursues her when they meet again (unlikely, because didn't the bracelet react to Evie trying to tell Elsa her name when they first met?)
or
2. Elsa gets her memories wiped. But, really specifically, like, only of Evie's name. She remembers the promise vividly and what Evie looks like, so this is kind of doubtful?

So ... has the author given up on making it all join up together? It's not that huge of an issue if they don't, plotholes schmotholes. But it is making the chapters less enjoyable as all this plays out in the back of my mind.

I'm 55 years old. I have never slapped anybody out of shock/surprise in my life. It's completely foreign to my way of thinking. I can't imagine doing so in that context unless I thought the other person was a genuine threat to my physical well-being.

I'm 35, I've accidentally slapped people twice in my life. Yes, it's not something I go to, but it really is a reaction of shock sometimes. I hated it, apologised profusely afterwards, and have always tried to control myself better.

Oh gosh, I nearly cried when she slapped her. What a thing to do, and with no conversation about it afterwards. This is all the steps back. I wouldn't be surprised if Kurumi doesn't come out of her room for a while now.

New girl, while hot, is really out of place. You have all of these normal 1800s anglo girls, and a witch in fetish wear named after a numetal band

It really suddenly felt like I was reading a totally different manga.
That, and a plot from somewhere. I don't want plot, I want romance and shenanigans.

Please tell me you noticed it was suspicious she didn't even try to break her fall, Rose. No normal person is like that, she was obviously purposely trying not to react.

Oh man, now I'm so, so disappointed we didn't get chapters and chapters of this dynamic.

Is it normal for the part where you have to suck it up and get over it re: unrequited love to be so melodramatic? Like damn it really isn't that big of a deal.

I'd just like to point out that anything that is the purpose of a story is big and melodramatic, because that's the point, lol.
No, it's not a huge deal in RL - though painful, and kids are prone to melodrama, but when the romance is your whole "world" as it is when it's a story, then losing your love is the end of the "world".
It's nice to be able to have some perspective like this, because if these were the main characters, we'd be so swept up in the story, we'd see this as a bigger deal than it actually is, lol.