Dear god. This again. Why? Do these authors have the same cheat sheet with the same routes and events. "I didn't take your confession seriously". Are you for real? There are like a thousand yuri mangas that pulled it before yours. Why bother?

It isn't really disappointing because I was expecting it two or three chapters later.

In fairness, virtually every lesbian I have known in my life has expressed exactly these kinds of behaviors around their crushes. It happens all the time in fiction because it happens all the time in reality.

"I like you."

(I sure wish she actually liked me. I mean, she's just saying that as friends, right?)

"I like you romantically."

(Gee, it'd sure be nice if she meant that literally.)

"I literally, genuinely like you romantically and am interested in being your girlfriend and kissing you and being with you as a romantic couple that has sex with each other."

(Okay, but how does she mean that?)

last edited at Nov 26, 2018 9:34PM

Wait, so she didn't mean it until after she said it? They're both dumbfucks.

No, I think she meant it, I think she said it on impulse and realized the gravity of it after saying it out loud.

Isn't Dengeki released on the 27th? How are there raws already?

It's probably a special chapter from the next tank or something. That would gel with it being about side characters.

(FACEPALM)

FANTASTIC.

Hey folks, some of the illustratotion of the light novel has been update.
Sayaka you poor child, she just can't take a break
https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4304585793817296

Interesting. Looks like there was a childhood friend crush back before she fell for sempai. How much you wanna bet this is the main love interest for the novels?

Momose also have such huge rack! And she gets even excited to know that someone who does the groping is a girl, which is amazing. Looks like Harumi is gonna attempt to grab Chiaki's small breast next time. As usual, great stuff. Thanks for the update!

I doubt Momose's rack is incidental, either. I'm betting there's going to be a story where Chiaki tries to give Momose's breasts a squeeze and finds that they just don't have the same impact as Harumi's.

In all fairness neither Iori nor Minami saw fit to correct her error, for whatever reason. (Well Iori was probably just too scared shitless to think straight (cough) but anyway.)

Japanese doesn't have gender-specific pronouns, which sometimes makes misunderstandings like this awkward to translate. Unless she actually said something like "That man" or "this guy" out loud to them, they may not have -noticed-. If she did, they may have just missed it or, knowing Minami, she might be deliberately waiting to see how long it takes her to figure it out on her own.

Entirely unrelated but it bothers me how Saori magically gains long sleeves for the (hilarious) second frame here. >:/

Nanako also loses her socks.

Ok, what happened was when Saori kicked Nanako she quickly took her socks, bleached them, then sewed them to her sleeves in 1 second with her black belt karate skills.

Yeah, this was my analysis as well. Grats on beating me to it.

I'm setting aside the rest of this because what changes should or shouldn't be made and why is just a matter of preference and opinion and I can agree to disagree on all of that.

But you are 100% factually wrong about how anime adaptations are made.

Selling additional manga is certainly a motivation for the author to give the company permission to make the anime, but the production company itself doesn't see any of that. So no, their goal is not to sell the manga and nothing more.

And here lies the issue with your entire argument. You don't understand the anime and manga industry, very clearly.
The magazines that publish the manga are the ones who hire a studio to make the anime in 7/10 cases. So there is no licensing issue. Most anime do not cost millions of dollars. Especially the 12 episode format, which is specifically made for the reason of advertising the manga and gaining a larger audience for it. (Of course with long running Shounen anime like One Piece it's a two-way beneficial situation where the anime gets more manga readers and the manga gets more anime watchers in tandem over a long time).

You're either gonna have to cite sources on that 7/10 thing or admit you just pulled it straight out of your ass.

A typical 13 episode anime series costs from 1 to 4 million dollars. I base this on numerous comments I've seen from several creators, but here's a specific link to a specific quote saying 2 million is typical. Longer seasons are more expensive, i picked the 1-4 range because that's what Yagakimi almost certainly cost.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-08-13/anime-insiders-share-how-much-producing-a-season-costs/.91536

Hell, just pay attention to the freaking credits of any anime series! You'll have dozens if not hundreds of people credited with the production, from animators and editors to composers and voice actors. These people work for salary or on contract, depending on the job, and an anime studio like Troyca produces at max of two series a year, meaning at least half their salary comes from a single series. Do the math. They'll cut corners where they can, but anime is still a large cooperative venture involving many employees. The amount of labor involved in producing even a low budget anime is nuts.

The 13 episode format has been standard in anime for years, and has often been used even in circumstances when there /was no manga/. It has nothing to do with "advertising the manga and gaining a larger audience for it", it's about limiting the exposure and expense and reducing the risk on titles that might not find a solid audience. 13 episodes is a smaller commitment than 26+, and is one of the options pursued by companies when they want to see if a product can fly. Smaller commitment means less expense which means less risk.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-09-26/.106891

Here's a pretty decent summary of how it came about, also discussing the process.

Manga publishers do not -hire- anime studios to produce anime as commercials. That is -laughable-. Anime studios approach manga publishers about properties they think would fill a niche in their programming. What's more, the studio fronts all the money of production and -pays- the manga company for the licensing rights. Every time. I challenge you to find one instance of an anime that was commissioned by the manga publisher. Find me one source. I'll wait.

No doubt they make bank on the Blue-ray sales and ad revenue themselves, otherwise that wouldn't be very profitable overall, but you really miss the point of why most anime adaptation of Light Novels and manga are made. I never said the studio doesn't want to profit on their own, that's a given obviously.

" They exist as promotion for the manga, nothing else." That's your words, exactly. If they want to profit on their own, then they aren't just promotion for the manga.

Producers choose manga or light novels based on their popularity because a popular series brings with it an automatic audience. Publishers do not choose anime producers, it's literally the other way around. When you said that remarkable 7/10 line earlier, it actually made me question my understanding, so I looked around, and just no. Every source I found confirms this is how it works. The production company decides what they want to make, then goes about trying to convince the manga publisher and the author to sign on and license the rights to them.

The magazine (not the author) is the main instance that profits of this deal and that's why in the cases you mentioned of the studio apporaching them, they agree almost every time. Mangaka are basically shackled and bound by their publishers and editors. They don't have much say in anything.

That depends on the author and the publisher. The more established a person's name, the more pull they have because the producers know that the author has clout with the fans. Also authors are more likely to retain the copyright on their work and characters compared to western comics. Authors usually agree every time because being chosen to have an anime made of your series is a huge honor and a big financial opportunity. They absolutely have a say, however, if they piss off their publisher, they could find themselves without one. But that isn't the point.

The point is the producers pick the series they want to adapt (or the original pitches they want to produce) and they approach the author through the publisher. In a lot of cases, these companies have existing relationships, either through past business dealings or through corperate connections. The details get complicated and case-by case, but in any event, the producers always intend to make their money back on the anime. The sales boost to the manga is a benefit to the manga publisher and the author, but isn't generally the concern of the anime producers (except in that it motivates them to agree to the deal)

last edited at Nov 19, 2018 12:22AM

So much wrong, so little time...

First of all what you describe has nothing to do with Yuri. Period. All genres have these adaptation "issues" you speak of.

Correct. Did I say it was exclusively about yuri? No I did not.

Secondly, no that is not why these adaptations are made.

"There are various reasons to make an adaptation" I didn't say all adaptations are made for the reason to reach a new audience, but-

Sure, there might be 2 or 3 of those out there, but that's never the point and never will be the point of these kinds of anime adaptations. They exist as promotion for the manga, nothing else.

(stares)

Okay, I know I'm being an asshole about this, but...

(just stares) Are you HIGH?

You will have to accept this. Far more people start to read the manga because the anime ended on a cliffhanger, rather than being put off by it. If the anime has a completely satisfying ending, then that will undoubtedly lead to less people checking out the manga, that's simple psychology, but that doesn't mean the anime has to be bad for it. Taking your original route or ending is ballsy and turns out terrible 90% of the time. So forgive me if I don't have any love for that approach.

The suggestion that the anime exists as basically a glorified advertisement for the manga is comically hilarious. These shows cost millions of dollars to produce and require the creative efforts of numerous professionals. They are produced by companies that license the property from the manga creator and the producers of the anime get no benefit from increased sales of the manga. They're in it for advertising revenue and disc sales, -maybe- merchandising rights. Selling extra books gains the studio nothing, so why exactly do you think they PAY THE AUTHOR for the rights to use their story? Because they plan to make money. Off the -anime-.

You are so astonishingly wrong about this that I find it hard to believe you're even being serious.

Let me explain how this process works. You don't have to take my word for it, feel free to look into it yourself.

An anime company sees a property that has some popularity and approaches the rights owner, usually the artist in the case of a manga. They -give them money- for the opportunity to license their story and characters into an anime. They then produce the anime at significant expense, with or without the author's input in accordance with whatever all parties agreed to. The goal of the anime company here is to make back their investment plus profits, so they air the show on TV and they sell discs of it. I have never heard of an animation studio getting any kind of residuals or bonuses if the manga sales pick up afterwards.

Selling additional manga is certainly a motivation for the author to give the company permission to make the anime, but the production company itself doesn't see any of that. So no, their goal is not to sell the manga and nothing more.

Kobayashi might have changed the order a bit, but it didn't change the events. And more importantly Kobayashi doesn't have a rigid story structure. It is very slice-of-life allowing for easy interchanging. Yagate Kimi ni Naru is not like that in the slightest.
Also, they blew up an event that was not quite as dramatic to make it a finale, but why is that better than what we could have gotten instead? There are quite a few emotional moments in the manga that could have served as great finales as well. Sorry, but you are just saying "I liked that, so it was the best move" lol

Yeah, that is pretty much entirely my point. They made something I like better by modifying it to suit the format in which it was being released. Pretty much all discussion we could have here is subjective unless we want to go digging into sales figures or whatever.

That's your very self-centered presumption, sorry to say.

We're -all- expressing our opinions here, mate, spare me your faux moral superiority as you proceed to talk like yours plopped directly from the asshole of God almighty.

Again, it works, that is why the studios do it. People do want to know what happens next, especially if the anime was interesting, which is more guaranteed if they actually stick to the same quality as the source material.

Numerous creators disagree with you. The question of how closely to stick to source material in an adaptation is a contentious one, but almost anybody that actually does this stuff for a living will tell you that some changes basically need to happen. Hell, in THIS case, changes have already happened, they've just been minor ones.

The story builds up to the play, but there are several levels of subplots involved and ultimately the play is just a means to an end. The emotional weight of Yuu's decision can carry the finale easily. I want to see the shallow audience that would not be interested to read the manga after that scene. If they exist, then they can pray for a second season and if they don't get it and still dont want to read the manga, they didn't care enough anyway.

The point isn't that they're not interested to read the manga after that scene. The point is they were watching the anime, and if the anime doesn't have a satisfying ending, it disappoints people. Even if they ARE interested in seeing the manga, the fact that the anime has a disappointing ending can still be frustrating for people. Like I said, I'm not just pulling this from nowhere. I have consistently seen these kind of complaints about anime series that stuck slavishly to the source material and then end abruptly without resolution.

My point is that spending time building up an event you never intend to show makes the work unsatisfying. If the manga had ended at the point in the series you're suggesting they end the anime, Everybody in this comment section would have exploded with rage and grief. We'd be bitching about the amputated school play arc in comment threads on totally different series. Reasonable odds it'd become a MEME.

What I am saying is that the anime, -as an independent work-, would be better if they structured it to end with the play than if they make the play a big deal for the entire series and then never show it.

If you don't care about the anime as an independent work, that's fine. That's your opinion. I do. I think every work should be satisfying as a work in itself, and it would be a shame if this one wasn't "finished" or didn't end at a satisfying point.

Typically they greenlight a season and then see how that does. If it gets good numbers, they might offer another season, but it isn't a sure thing. As such, the writers tend to plan the first season so that it has a satisfying ending even if they don't have another season.

The writers, working with Nakatani-sensei, have almost certainly structured the season on the assumption that this is their one shot. Incidental plot elements and side arcs are likely to have been cut down. I doubt we'll get, say, the bit where Koyomi goes to meet her favorite author. Some things will be cut, other bits might be expanded or changed. And that's good! An anime is digested differently from a manga. It shouldn't be scene for scene.

If we cut the plot points down to a bare minimum up to the play we got:
-Sports Festival
-Training Camp
-Summer break date
-Changing the play's script
-The play itself

If you say any of these can be cut out, you are wrong. At least if we want to keep the integrity of the source material up.
I dunno where everyone got the idea that this will be 13 episodes even though it was announced as 12, so I'll stick with the more pessimistic number for now.

I definitely didn't say any of those should be cut. In fact, I broke the rest of the episodes up in a way pretty similar to what you did below. When I talk about cutting things, I'm talking about side elements. Also you -could- cut some of those plotlines if you restructured the important elements into something else. I don't think it's necessary, but it's an option if you don't assume there's a second season coming.

We are on episode 6. Halfway done. If we had to spread those most important plot points over the remainder it would have to go something like this:
Ep.7: Sports Festival
Ep.8: Preparation for the training camp/miscallaneous stuff
Ep.9: Training Camp
Ep.10: Summer break and date
Ep.11: Yuu changing the script with Koyomi/Akari getting rejected for good (they set her character arc up so I doubt it will be ignored)
Ep.12: Somehow stuffing the entire play into one episode

This is ridiculously tight and cuts out a lot of stuff I'd like to see (Yuu vs. Sayaka confrontation, the rain chapter and Sayaka's side-quest with cafe owner and Riko-sensei), but it isn't terribly rushed. Some things like Sayaka's past or Koyomi's author date can be added in a potential second season or OVA without any connection to the timeline.

I just think that cramming it all into season 1 reduces the chances for a second season significantly. I'm one of those people who doesn't mind an open ending if the source material is there to finish it. I'd rather have a well paced and accurate first half than a crammed whole.

If there is likely to -be- a season 2, then that'd all be well and good. But you know, when I got interested in yuri anime and started really paying attention to it, you know what I kept seeing over and over?

"It's alright, but it's slow and the ending sucks."

Sasameki Koto. Aoi Hana. Sakura Trick. They all stick pretty solidly to the sequence of events in their respective manga series, and they're all kinda disappointing at the finish line. Yeah, you can go to the manga to get the rest of the story, but many people -don't-, and so they just end up being regarded as kind of disappointing non-events in the long run by many people. A lot of people -won't- check out the manga specifically -because- they found the anime disappointing.

There are various reasons to make an adaptation. One is to appease the existing fans and get money out of them, but another is to reach an audience that wouldn't see the story otherwise. If you're interested in making a work that stands up, that reaches it's own audience, sticking slavishly to the events of the books at the expense of the structure and ending of the adaptation is a mistake.

By contrast: Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid makes some small changes to story order and focuses on a different series of events from the manga. If they had done the manga scene for scene, it would have been cute and funny and I would have enjoyed it, but I wouldn't have had nearly the FEELS that I got when Kobayashi falls into heartbroken single parent mode at the end It easily transcended -and lifted up- the source material explicitly because they -didn't- just stick to the original pattern of events. They structured the season on the assumption that that was all they were getting, and they made something that drew me into a manga that I honestly would have just passed by entirely.

So while I get the desire the fans have to see a faithful and precise adaptation scene by scene and then have a second season that carries us through to the finish line, unless a two-season deal was discussed as likely from the start, I think that'd be a mistake. The -entire structure of the season- is about building up to the play. If we never get there, most people aren't going to get to the end, and go 'Oh, I guess I'll read the manga now,' They're going to go 'What? We don't even get to see the play? How diappointing.'

And then they'll go watch Citrus or something.

This is probably going to end up long but I just need to write to explain my thinking. In the recently translated Chapter 36, it left me actually feeling scared that the relationship is going to shift from Yuu/Touko over to Sayaka/Touko and I don't entirely understand myself where it is coming from. I know the story so far has been completely surrounded around the relationship between Touko and Yuu which is originally where I thought this fear came from but as I thought about it I don't think that is the actual origin. Sayaka completely deserves the chance to have a relationship with Touko as she has been holding on to feelings for Touko for much longer than Yuu has been and she is just as capable of being a great lover for Touko as Yuu is which I think is part of it for me. The possibility is there and it both makes sense and would be deserved. I think the other part that scares me though is I myself am just like Yuu was, I don't know what "love" is. I've never felt it myself, just seen it around me and longed for it so this probably creates a connection to her for me. I started reading different kinds of romance, be it hetorosexual or yuri they are both just "love" to me. (Admittedly I've never really came to enjoy yaoi though but I think that just comes out of the nature of liking cute things rather than the nature of the relationship) This is getting on a tangent, I read them out of curiosity of what this "love" is and to find a series with a character that is the same as me I think I grew attached to Yuu and really cheered for her with full sincerity. More than just that though, I feel like Yuu (thought I guess me accurately Nakatani Noi maybe) taught me what love is. What it feels like, how it grows. I've bought the hardcopy version of the entire series so far, it is actually the first manga series I've felt like I needed to buy, and I just want Yuu to experience full requisite love. I'm sorry if anyone find this weird or confusing but I've just been confused about this feeling myself and I just wanted to write it all out. Thank you Nakatani Noi for creating such a great story if you see this.

First of all, paragraphs are your friend.

I'm not saying that to be snarky. Okay, I'm not JUST saying that to be snarky. Your comments are well thought out and your personal experience is really relevant and interesting, but it was really hard for me to read it. My eyes aren't great under the best of circumstances and having an unbroken wall of text just complicates that.

So just something for you to consider next time. ;p

As far as worrying about the main romance changing tracks, Eh, I wouldn't worry about it, and here's why:

Nakatani Nio has bills to pay. "Manga artist" is not a high-profile, luxurious career. Apart from a handful of superstars who have exceptionally marketable franchises with big licensing opportunities (coughcoughDragonballcough) Most Manga artists are shooting for a decent, middle-income lifestyle where they can have actual meals and dream of someday being popular enough to entertain the notion of retiring.

A romance comic where in the 11th hour the main protagonist drops off the map and the primary love interest goes with somebody else is not gonna sell well or lead to subsequent series offers. It's also not likely to be fulfilling for the author, because authors often sympathise with their protagonist's struggles, although they do sometimes also get a kick out of being mean to them.

Stories do not always have happy endings, but they don't usually change focus entirely at the tail end of the series.

That said, tension drives sales and makes the climax more fulfilling, so shoring up the confidence and boldness of a primary rival right before the main characters resolve their conflict and end up together is always a go-to move. Sayaka doesn't actually have a chance with Touko right now. Touko is still head over heels for Yuu. But Sayaka doesn't -know- that, so she THINKS she has a chance, which is driving her arc right now.

The fact that Sayaka is getting a spin-off light novel (and the fact that it wasn't sold up as Sayaka -and Touko- getting a spin-off light novel) also implies that there are other prospects on the horizon for her.

Edit: Oh, also, it's a little risky to say she "deserves" a chance with Touko. It makes it sound like Touko is obligated to accept and return her feelings because she was there for her and she suffered a bit along the way. Nobody is entitled to a relationship. (Not saying that's how you meant it, but it could be read that way) She deserves to be happy, because everybody does, but making that happen isn't anybody's responsibility but her own.

last edited at Nov 17, 2018 4:07PM

They are building heavily towards the play, but that's what the manga did too. I'm entirely unconvinced that they will go all the way to the play, there is just not enough time and considering how faithful they were until now, I don't want to entertain the idea that they will skip entire chapters just to get there faster.

Will there be a season 2? I mean, the anime will have a very incomplete ending or have an alt ending otherwise. If they want to wrap things up they will need to cut stuff out.

Typically they greenlight a season and then see how that does. If it gets good numbers, they might offer another season, but it isn't a sure thing. As such, the writers tend to plan the first season so that it has a satisfying ending even if they don't have another season.

The writers, working with Nakatani-sensei, have almost certainly structured the season on the assumption that this is their one shot. Incidental plot elements and side arcs are likely to have been cut down. I doubt we'll get, say, the bit where Koyomi goes to meet her favorite author. Some things will be cut, other bits might be expanded or changed. And that's good! An anime is digested differently from a manga. It shouldn't be scene for scene.

I really won't be surprised if they skip over the training camp. While a fun part for reads it doesn't have much impact on the over all story compared to other stuff.

They are building heavily towards the play, but that's what the manga did too. I'm entirely unconvinced that they will go all the way to the play, there is just not enough time and considering how faithful they were until now, I don't want to entertain the idea that they will skip entire chapters just to get there faster.

Eh, serialized manga function differently from a season of a TV series. Serialized manga assume that they're going to be around to finish their story. Anime is produced in chunks and functions on story arcs. If they aren't going to get tot he play, the series won't feel like a cohesive whole. I'd be legitimately shocked if they don't cover it at the end of the anime.

Sayaka is basically staking her territory to someone that she views as an encroaching rival, but she's also trying to persuade her to be helpful and cooperative, so it's a pretty complex scene. I think it was handled pretty excellently.

At this pace, I feel like the season is structured to reach it's climax with the showing of the play. They'll probably tighten up the preparations so that the plot of the play itself is more of a surprise to the viewer? We've got what, six episodes left? So sports festival, training camp, Aquarium date, culture festival prep, and then the play is spread over the last two, probably, with maybe the last half of the last episode about Yuu building towards confessing, ending on a hopeful note.

I really won't be surprised if they skip over the training camp. While a fun part for reads it doesn't have much impact on the over all story compared to other stuff.

-Except-, it builds the tension between Touko, Yuu, and Sayaka. It also introduces her sister's classmate, which is a major tipping point pushing her into crisis mode for the play, and also, from the producer's perspective, I mean....

It is an anime...

...And that -is- where we have the bath scene.

I do think the character art could been better and not so separated in style from the backgrounds though it did feel like it improved some in the last episode.

I think it's pretty gorgeous, honestly. I don't have much of a problem with the visuals overall.

last edited at Nov 10, 2018 10:41PM

Gushing about the episode every week might get a bit repetitive, so let's sum up the bad parts!
........
.....
I mean... They kinda stretched the investigation into Touko's sister a bit... which gave it more weight that she was hiding it... which is an inoffensive and ostensibly good addition...?

Yeah, no, this anime rocks. Can't even pretend to find flaws. (not so flawless on the subs though)

Alright... in that scene where Sayaka and Yuu had that little talk, I must admit Sayaka sounded much less friendly than I remember it being in my head while reading the manga.

I dunno how well you can read the mood, but the manga didn't portray it as a friendly chat either. Sayaka was quite antagonistic.

Sayaka is basically staking her territory to someone that she views as an encroaching rival, but she's also trying to persuade her to be helpful and cooperative, so it's a pretty complex scene. I think it was handled pretty excellently.

At this pace, I feel like the season is structured to reach it's climax with the showing of the play. They'll probably tighten up the preparations so that the plot of the play itself is more of a surprise to the viewer? We've got what, six episodes left? So sports festival, training camp, Aquarium date, culture festival prep, and then the play is spread over the last two, probably, with maybe the last half of the last episode about Yuu building towards confessing, ending on a hopeful note.

I'm pretty sure the author just retconned Minami's circumstances on the fly actually; the early chapters really don't jive with what we learn from her employer and see of Shizuku. Just to point out the obvious, I don't know what kind of criteria Japan has for potential foster families of abused children but I'm tolerably certain violently abusive paint sniffers don't make even the long list so either Minami's lying through her teeth back there (presumably covering for Shizuku, who the later chapters seem to imply she's living with) or the whole setup got rejiggered.

There's not any reason to assume any of that. First of all, I don't know much about the japanese foster care system either,b ut I know that in the US system, assholes slip through the cracks ALL THE TIME. Even well-meaning systems have a hard time keeping track of abusive foster parents, because the number of foster kids is usually way bigger than the number of applicant foster homes.

I don't see how you're saying they don't jive. She says her parent hospitalized her because they're a substance abuser, and her boss says her parents (foster or bio) are violent substance abusers who tried to kill her regularly. Now he might have been hyperbolic about that, but we know at the very least they menaced her with a knife.

We don't know if any of the parents mentioned are fosters, or if they're just talking about her biological parents the whole time. It could be that she was taken from her bio parents but they still track her down sometimes. It could be that she was taken in by foster parents who were abusive. It could be that she "lucked" into abusive fosters after being taken from abusive bio parents.

There's nothing inconsistant about any of that.

There is, however, a lot of inconsistancy between your idea of Shizuku and the way she's presented to us. The comic goes out of it's way to show us that their relationship was casually violent and that they didn't really think much about it. We see Shizuku hit Minami twice, but she never does any lasting damage to her, even when she's directly confronted by defiance. She gives up almost immediately without anger or any kind of fight once Minami says she's going back to Iori. That isn't typical for the kind of abuser that would hospitalize someone over a one-night stand. And what reason would Minami have to lie to Iori about who beat her up, anyway? Iori doesn't know Shizuku, or anything about Minami's situation.

Alright, okay, let's do a thought experiment. Just a little what-if, entertaining the most unlikely scenario. Let's assume Nakatani Nio loses her mind or some pushy Editor says "We need to stretch this out at all costs, so we can have a second anime season!" or something like that.

A possible way to drag out the plot that is not completely outrageous could be that Sayaka confesses during the school trip, but, now hear me out, Touko is in a pretty confused and depressed state. She can't make head or tails of her situation. If Sayaka confesses and Touko asks since when she has been hiding this and Sayaka says for a while or whatever, then Touko will see it as an echo of how she hurt Yuu. But unlike Yuu, Sayaka is not afraid to face her and even says she will accept a rejection.

Now Touko always appreciated how Sayaka doesn't pressure her and let her keep secrets, but she also realizes that Sayaka actually saw through her. Sayaka knows that Touko is changing and would actively support this. Where Sayaka keeps a strong front and keeps pushing, Yuu retreated out of consideration and denial.

In this scenario there is a possibility that Touko might accept the proposal of going out with Sayaka, to see where she really stands. She is close to Sayaka, but didn't tie her down like she did Yuu. She might not feel romantically for her (yet), but she wants to know if this current her can actually even feel like that anyway. Sayaka's love is passive, but straightforward, unlike Yuu's which has been painful and indecisive.

Now, obviously I am not saying this would lead to a Touko x Sayaka endgame. That is literally impossible for this story and I won't play devil's advocate for that. Still, if they started dating for these improper reasons, it will lead to Touko slowly realizing that it is different from what she feels for Yuu and that the love of a partner is not harmful. Yuu will obviously get hurt in the process from seeing that and has to deal with shutting her feelings down harder than before, but now that she actually knows what love feels like, she also feels heartbreak all the more. Jealousy and all those emotions she never had.

Ultimately it will end with Sayaka giving Touko the push to ask Yuu for forgiveness and mend their relationship, because she is sympathetic like that and doesn't want to live a farce.

I think this kind of arc is not unfeasible, but still highly unlikely.

PS: Don't make fanfiction of this, even Nakatani Nio can barely make this work. lol

Eh, I actually suggested something like this at one point, but I feel like the chance for something like this was predicated on Sayaka confessing first. Now that Yuu beat her to it, I can't see Touko accepting Sayaka's feelings. She knows she wants to be with Yuu, and she knows how accepting anybody else's confession after turning down Yuu would hurt the person she loves. I just can't see any possible way Touko could end up even temporarily with Sayaka at this point.

Now that I think of it, why do Takebe and Soramori look permanently serious/bothered/annoyed? People mentioned Takebe does right in the first page, but Soramori does too.

They have tailored a reputation for being hardasses, and part of that is looking tough. It's probably a habit that carries over. Though in this particular case, they're also probably both annoyed by this whole social media thing.

From what we've seen, I get the impression that her relationship with her "sister" is more mutually violent, with them fighting a lot and being kind of numb to the violence, (it shows them getting into fights with each other and then just kind of forgetting about it) while the abuse of her foster parents was more one-sided and brutal and is likely what led to the injuries we saw at the beginning. (we're shown her bieng menaced at knife point by her foster dad, IIRC)

Your chronology's way off, the knife thing was her birth parents before the child protection folks took her away from them.

I don't think that's clearly laid out, but even if that was true, the first chapter clearly says she was beaten by her parent, who was drunk and belligerent. She also describes them as huffing fumes to get high, and we haven't seen any signs of addiction from Shizuku aside from cigarettes. All we ever saw from Shizuku was one sucker punch and a thrown ashtray, and in flashbacks it's implied each pretty much gave as good as they got from each other.

Not saying their relationship is healthy or non-abusive, but I seriously doubt Shizuku would or could ever put Minami in the hospital. and I'm willing to bet her injuries at the beginning were nothing to do with Shizuku.

Also, if she was the sort that was going to put Minami in the hospital over a one-night stand with Iori, I doubt she would have let her go sadly and largely without resistance when she insists on going back.

last edited at Nov 7, 2018 4:26AM

Sayaka will confess. And maybe Touko will accept. This is... oh dear god...
Goddess bless Nakatani Nio.

I don't get how anybody reads this and thinks Touko might accept. I mean, you get that when Sayaka says "I feel like I have a chance", the fact that she feels that way doesn't make it TRUE, right?

Sayaka has picked up on the fact that Touko is moving into a place where she can accept someone's confession, sure. Sayaka's sharp, and she's not wrong about that.

That doesn't mean Touko would accept HERS. I mean, the narrative has been screaming SAYAKA IS OUT IN THE COLD since the start, and we know Touko is desperately pining for Yuu even though she's afraid to give herself over to that. Sayaka does not have a chance, guys. She thinks she does, but that's because she doesn't know the details about how Touko and Yuu feel. She knows something went down between them, but she doesn't know what. (that's contributing to her suspicion that she might have a chance, but again, she doesn't have all the information)

So, yeah. Sayaka is on a track to heartbreak city. Bet on it.

I really should've started reading this story when it first popped on my radar, rather than wait this long. Then I could've have joined whatever fun discussions that you've been having here, instead of skipping 20+ pages.

Eh, I think you might be better off in some cases.

What, did a big flame war erupt over something trivial that the mods had to crush with several bans?

Nothing that bad, just people complaining about things that I personally regard as trivial.

I realize her abusive best friend and parents would put this on the same wavelength

... I thought it was obvious when she referred to her best friend as "family" that her aforementioned "parents" abusing her was really a cover for her best friend doing so (for whatever reason; maybe she was upset at her staying over at another person's house without calling her?).

From what we've seen, I get the impression that her relationship with her "sister" is more mutually violent, with them fighting a lot and being kind of numb to the violence, (it shows them getting into fights with each other and then just kind of forgetting about it) while the abuse of her foster parents was more one-sided and brutal and is likely what led to the injuries we saw at the beginning. (we're shown her bieng menaced at knife point by her foster dad, IIRC)

But FOR ME the Mangaka is stretching it now to much......

It is ONE chapter focusing on THE MOST IMPORTANT side character.

Patience. You must learn patience!

(Edit: What's more, the resolution of Sayaka's personal arc is going to be integral, one way or another, to what Touko decides to do with Yuu. This is not stretching anything, this is build-up.

last edited at Nov 5, 2018 3:44PM

So there have already been some good discussions of this. Here's my perspective on Sayaka. I think Sayaka knows that Touko has had a crush on Yuu. I think she doesn't know how Yuu feels about Touko. She asked her about it and didn't get an answer. She knows that Yuu respects and cares about Touko, but she doesn't know to what extent.

She's also aware that something has gone wrong. She might actually suspect that -Touko- confessed and got shot down. Either way, I agree with the perspective that she's picked up that Touko is closer to a place where she could accept someone's affections.

I wonder if Sayaka confessing would screw Touko up at this point. I mean, she's already feeling guilty as hell because she accidentally forced Yuu to bury and hide her feelings. How do you think she'd feel if she finds out it was happening to Sayaka too? And then she has to deal with having to turn one of them down while accepting the other? I don't think she could do it. She'd feel too guilty about Sayaka to court Yuu properly at that point, although I could be wrong.

I think the most likely course of events at this point would be that Touko admits her feelings for Yuu to Sayaka first, and Sayaka gives her the push back towards Yuu. I could see Sayaka confessing after that point, for closure, but if she confessed before Touko has made a decision, it'd turn the whole thing into a quagmire.

last edited at Nov 5, 2018 3:41PM