So… is anyone gonna talk about the good parts of this chapter? Yuzu being an adorable puppy, Matsuri being the devilish voice of reason as always, Arata shaping up to be the first likeable male character in this manga, Yuzu jealously cuddling Kumagoro (paralleling Mei when Matsuri first arrived), Mei being concerned for Yuzu at the end…?

Yeah seemed like Mei has plans for Yuzu too and was about to tell her before Yuzu panicked and interrupted her. I think Mei doing what she's doing so that she can put all this work behind her and focus on Yuzu. Mei is just very old school in how she shows affection, for better or worse. She's not going to change that.

last edited at Jun 22, 2023 2:26PM

EDIT: I also wonder how many people would see Ayaka as "pushy" and claim "she's not respecting boundaries", if the story was from Hiroko's pov and we were introduced to her emotional baggage first.

Oh really interesting thought experiment. A lot, most likely. It's always an interesting part of the story writing process: deciding where to start the story, who to follow and how that will affect the audience. That's a large part of the fun. With some slight alterations we could have a sizable section of the audience ship Hiroko with Risa too, if it started as you suggest. Ayaka is more fun though and I don't think Sal wanted the series' foundation to be too dour.

last edited at Jun 22, 2023 1:16PM

Yeah, probably this backstory should've been narrated earlier since pretty much all of us hate Hiroko and have made up our mind on the "she only rejected Ayaka to protect her public persona" plot line

I mean, that’s kinda the point. The author wants you to draw conclusions about the character and get comfortable with that assessment. That way, when the curtain is finally pulled back, you stop to reassess everything that led you to your previous assumptions and make sense of it in light of the new revelation and effectively un-make up our minds and engage with the story in order to see things in this new light. I personally think the author does a great job of it here, especially the way they manage to roll the lingering effects of old social norms (a thing that a lot of readers probably aren’t going to think about since it’s a work of fiction) to make you really realize how Hiroko’s seeming density and cowardice is a sort-of trauma response.

Also, who is this “us” you’re referring to?

All she's missing is a trip to the Pensieve and a visit from a large snake. But yeah I'd agree. A lot of her background was hinted at for a while as well.

Risa still deserves her own love interest and not to just be a device to make the inevitable pairing off occur, though once again we all know she won't

Did you see Risa? She looked really, really happy in that embrace. Practically drooling. I think she'll be fine. She's got two suitors already.

last edited at Jun 21, 2023 8:56PM

See, Risa went to the bar and now she understands what Hiroko meant after that massive, smothering hug lol. Look at the face she's making. 5 minutes in that bar and she's targeted by two women. Though, we all know who's captured "Risapon."

Enjoyed this chapter's focus on showcasing the different perspectives of each of the women. 13 years can be a big difference, so it makes sense that Risa and Ayaka would view these issues differently than Hiroko, who comes with her own bad experiences. I liked that the bar patron also backed Hiroko up. They seem similar in age to Hiroko, so its nice to hear her hint at her own experiences and fears. Before that, Risa and Ayaka hadn't really understood or treated seriously the realities of the past, how that might affect someone older and how much 13 years can change an environment. The quest really will be to show Hiroko that things have changed for the better (at least somewhat) and that Ayaka will not be happy with this kind of protection, no matter what. Their workplace seems nice but as Hiroko mentioned, its the higher-ups, the board, and the public that really brings the hammer in these situations. Looking forward to following Ayaka again and glad Risa doesn't blame her. We know Ayaka doesn't give up; so, we'll see how much longer Hiroko's worry can last against Ayaka's tenacity.

last edited at Jun 21, 2023 6:27PM

According to mangadex, next chapter is supposed to be the last. I can't even speculate how the author will wrap up the story in a single chapter.

It says 23 on Mangadex, unless you count from 9 > 10 > 23. I don't think the next chapter will be the last.

Next is the last. It's free to read on pixiv if you can read Japanese. Where did you see 23?

Mangadex has a section in the manga description that lists the final chapter as 23.

I assumed it would be longer since the pixiv mentioned that there’s a volume 2.

Also just realized that you were probably looking at the older pixiv version of the manga that went to 23 (wasn't really a comic then though). Mangadex has both versions and maybe you got mixed up. That would explain it.

last edited at Jun 21, 2023 9:50AM

How would she have a clue that fan letter was from her if she had a different surname lol?
Also i doubt idols keep more than a tiny fraction of their fan mail- a few of the nicest that their mangers clear for them..

She recognized her face. Sis used to go to all their concerts in person.

last edited at Jun 21, 2023 7:45AM

According to mangadex, next chapter is supposed to be the last. I can't even speculate how the author will wrap up the story in a single chapter.

It says 23 on Mangadex, unless you count from 9 > 10 > 23. I don't think the next chapter will be the last.

Next is the last. It's free to read on pixiv if you can read Japanese. Where did you see 23?

Mangadex has a section in the manga description that lists the final chapter as 23.

I assumed it would be longer since the pixiv mentioned that there’s a volume 2.

So what exactly is the truth?

I'm not all that good with Japanese, but that last doodle marked as #23 on pixiv has a title that reads something along the lines of volume 2 release announcement. However, the body of the message says, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), that volume 2 was released on April 16th. Either that volume isn't on pixiv or the 11 chapters currently posted here belong to 2 separate volumes.

Edit: Also worth noting that the current cover here on dynasty belongs to said volume 2.

Oh, and one more thing, I just checked and that cover image is the first page of chapter 5 here, so I think it's safe to assume volume 2 starts at chapter 5.

It starts at 6 but yeah to everything else. You can tell without seeing the chapter list, because volumes normally end with a .5 chapter or "extra pages" or notes/afterword from the author. We had 5.5 here that had all of those.

Definitely short but sweet.

last edited at Jun 21, 2023 7:39AM

There was literally nothing there for us to sympathize with.

I don't really agree, although it's of course fine if you didn't sympathize with her earlier (or even now). I think there was enough hinted at and alluded to. This very outcome was discussed by a good amount of people based on those hints and allusions before it was revealed. This chapter just made it less subtle and more upfront.

Nah. We explicitly got her internal monologue where she dismisses them as unfounded rumors. It's only when the risk of Hiroko getting outed comes to the forefront that she resigns, explicitly because that WASN'T an unfounded rumor. She was fine weathering lies, she quit to protect Hiroko's truth.

Yeah, if things were bad based on only rumors, what would have happened once they found out about their budding relationship? She preempted the chaos to protect Hiroko and cut contact so Hiroko wouldn't undo her efforts.

Her haircut is also neater in the back than Hiroko's, that's how I told them apart.

And they say Hiroko was deliberately copying senpai's look, so the similarities are on purpose. Hiroko was just as gungho as Ayaka is now.

last edited at Jun 20, 2023 6:59AM

I wonder if the path moving forward will be that there's been a change in the office's culture as more of the "old guard" was removed and the new people are a bit more open

That's the hope, right? That Hiroko's sensitivities just haven't caught up to the changed landscape.

A more charitable interpretation is that Chinatsu was indeed a genuinely talented, important asset to the company, and when she resigned suddenly the leadership investigated. And when they discovered that it was caused by a baseless rumor from jealous colleagues, they were "encouraged" to follow her out the door. But because this is Japanese office culture, nobody just flat out said "stop spreading stupid rumors you ding-dongs."

Yeah they said she was still in contact with the boss while she was away. She must have spilled the beans and reported him. Everyone in the office seemed to know it was him afterwards.

Interesting. Not a story of a bad senpai but instead an alternate ending for Hiroko and Ayaka's potential romance; and it also serves as the reason for the intensity of Hiroko's denial. She's not just worried for the normal reasons that a marginalized person might be but also because she's literally experienced where this could wind up! And her story and demeanor parallels Ayaka's so much. Must be a lot of trauma. A sad story, especially for the senpai who lost or at least had her career altered over nothing.

Like her senpai, Hiroko is self-sacrificing for Ayaka's sake; but also like her senpai, Hiroko is substituting one kind of harm to Ayaka for another. Career and public harm, for personal romantic harm. Ayaka will have a lot to overcome, in order to show Hiroko that this time can be different and that there can be hope even in hostile environments. A lot can change in 10 years even when a lot can remain annoyingly the same.

last edited at Jun 19, 2023 2:16PM

Yvonne thinking "now I'll get her back for teasing me all this time" like girl this is the reason she's so ridiculously head over heels for you.

Failing upwards.

Yeah if Uncle moves, Mitsuki moves with him (unless I'm wrong, and he's not her guardian?). So, Kanna isn't wrong, even if she's having a whole lot of fun teasing. Can't see them separating though and I don't think Uncle would forcefully move Mitsuki.

last edited at Jun 18, 2023 9:07AM

Please do not be a third wheel. Please do not be a third wheel. Please do not be a third wheel.

Lol Same. Getting Sayaka vibes from her. They all seem fun though.

Mmmm, yeah, when you put it that way, that does make sense. When I first read this chapter, Ayaka's continued listlessness during the date scenes kinda escaped my notice, (since I thought it was like, Risa's imaginings during her confessing, not actual events across a minor timeskip until a page or two later) so the aggressive face felt kinda more relevant to Risa's own fed-up vibes these past few chapters than in response to that. But going back and looking again, it does come across a bit better now....[Cutting off the rest for space]

Oh detailed response. Cool. Harumin all the way! That's all I'll say.

Lol. But yeah, if you haven't already, check Ayaka's eyes in those scenes (also check that Risa was the only one ever blushing--bless her). The awkwardness is a bit of comedy. Ayaka is completely shell shocked that they're even doing this. She must have been so confused. When a good friend confesses, it can be so weird if you're not attracted. It can feel like "hey, they're a great person, shouldn't I try it out? Should I? Why don't I like them? Why does this feel weird?" But the reality is it doesn't work that way. We can't turn a switch, we don't have as much control as we think we do over our feelings. Maybe in time they could, but Risa was already so upfront the entire manga and still not even a thought from Ayaka, so it's right for her.

It's tough to move on but the upside is Risa tried it. She can have closure. She has no regrets. That's the other purpose here, I think. She's not the silent unrequited love trope, she stood up and made it happen (just like Ayaka has been doing). Now she knows it doesn't work and can move on head held high. She's not Sayaka. I agree about your Liz/Liberty comments but that's another divergence.

last edited at Jun 18, 2023 6:52AM

Oh man, I'd love to talk with you about your Harumin takes but don't want to get off topic more!

If Risa had given her time and space before suggesting a relationship, maybe it could have worked out better, but this outcome just makes sense to me given her characterization thus far.

Yeah, I can imagine her mental state though. She lost Ayaka's affection to Hiroko, now they're "broken up" and here's Risa's chance. But what if she waits too long and Ayaka falls for someone else? Back to unrequited love again? She must have been under a lot of romantic stress. Then, they're finally dating and Risa must have noticed Ayaka's relative apathy and lack of closeness. That's just difficult stuff and she couldn't have been in the best state when she went for the aggressive kiss. I don't blame her either. I don't blame any of the 3 really.

Also you're thoughts about the 3 women and how we all view them are interesting, as well. Hiroko's issues feel the most real (to me, and maybe you as well?). Maybe that's part of why you might find it easier to relate to her problems? There's more that could be said about your ideas. Appreciated.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 10:54PM

Sorry to everyone else for the rant, I'm gonna drop this now, because it's mostly off topic at this point, but nah, man, people have a responsibility to try and make their language clear, but the reader ALSO has a responsibility to try and take what they said in context in good faith, to seek understanding, not pelt them with nitpicks. Language isn't a competitive sport, you don't get points for dishonestly picking apart somebody's phrasing.

Nice rant. Fully agree. Felt you'd wish to know.

Agreed. I didn't have it in me. I write enough here, as it is.

I am really digging the "lesbian bar patrons as Greek chorus" thing they got going on, and also enjoying them deconstructing Hiroko.

Haha never thought of it that way but yeah. Like from Hercules.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 6:58PM

Damn everyone who left an Ayaka x Risa comment must be reeling right now lol

This was definitely done in a "let's do it to say we did it" type way rather than giving it much effort. I've been cheering for Risa but pushing Ayaka to date her was a weird move (even if she said she wouldn't play nice, doesn't mean she has to go 0 to 100).

I talked about it in an earlier comment about Risa but she seemed a bit desperate. She knew how Ayaka felt and this uneasiness seemed to be building up behind the scenes throughout the last few chapters. She was growing really envious and starting to escalate, finally culminating in her outburst with Hiroko. So I agree it was aggressive but I didn't see it as sudden (with earlier comments as evidence of that); rather it felt to me like she was at her last straw, knew Ayaka's feelings, and wanted to snatch a chance with her. It's sad that it doesn't work out for her though.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 6:11PM

I see, so, Hiroko was once in Ayaka's shoes. But what I don't get is that, she knows she isn'r as cruel as the Senpai she once pursued. So, why is she so afraid of reciprocating Ayaka's feelings?

Do we know that the Senpai was cruel? She might have suffered from what Hiroko is afraid of. She was apologizing here for getting Hiroko involved in something.

An apologizing Senpai, eh?

I actually never got around to those specials and the novels! I really should though. How were they? And hopefully this senpai isn't as much of a creep. The framing seemed sympathetic though.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 5:30PM

I see, so, Hiroko was once in Ayaka's shoes. But what I don't get is that, she knows she isn'r as cruel as the Senpai she once pursued. So, why is she so afraid of reciprocating Ayaka's feelings?

Do we know that the Senpai was cruel? She might have suffered from what Hiroko is afraid of. She was apologizing here for getting Hiroko involved in something.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 4:57PM

Was this plotline axed? I get a feeling like somebody told Sal Jiang to rush through this arc and move to the next posthaste - to try and salvage the story.

Didn't work very well then lmao. One more vol and it's over.

Sal's stories are always about this length. They do shorter series. So nothing out of the ordinary. You can follow their twitter, etc. They're still discussing this series, since it just ended recently. This story was well received in Japan from what I could tell (and Sal's popular anyway), so I see no indication that anything happened.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 5:01PM

People, I understand some things might need to more clear for those of us who are more literal but there is no need for this to escalate so much...

Very true but that ship seems to have sailed, unfortunately. Just gotta trudge through it, and I'm not replying to those anymore. Lol After the family comment with little response, I got it.

.I hope she can find someone who is a good match for her

That large woman at the bar nearly strangled her last time. She'd be popular there.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 2:32PM

I think it's pretty realistic given the circumstances. There's over the top scenarios and gags on one hand and on the other hand realistic issues that gay women face in their day to day lives.

Agreed, about your love triangle comment. And yeah, agreed again, here. All her hangups were laid out clear, there's not much else to do to make them clearer. It's complicated dealing with whatever her past is, being gay in a corporate environment within a socially conservative country, being 13 years older, and also being her boss.

I especially love the line asking Hiroko something like "what has been making you lie to yourself." This line further solidifies the idea that she's not been fully dense but instead in denial (a big difference). She's been running from the truth she almost realized in that earlier chapter when she got sick in her stomach (which was a hint). Guess we'll find out an extra reason why, now.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 2:00PM

Yeah, Ayaka wasn't into it but Risa knew she was in a precarious position after Ayaka told her that she wasn't interested back in an earlier chapter. She pushed for this situation as a last chance attempt and that's fair! But Ayaka just isn't romantically attracted to her even with Hiroko temporarily out of the mix (but not really). Seemed like Ayaka was "out of it" on all their dates. I really see them as sisterly and I think she does too, as she couldn't wrap her mind around looking at Risa in a romantic way at all.

Hopefully they can talk through this moment but that'll take Risa's being OK with remaining a best friend. It's not like Ayaka pushed for this, she seemed to accommodate the request to be nice. I'd hate for Risa to blame Ayaka for not have feelings when Ayaka already told her this a long time ago. Risa makes Ayaka happy but as a friend and that should eventually be OK too. Risa, go to that bar! Lots of great people there.

Now Hiroko is getting into her background! Great. Should be interesting to see what incidents might have raised her concern levels and how Ayaka the pitbull can maybe represent a different path. "Senpai" seems to have some parallels to her current situation.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 12:34PM

Basically I asked because I think Ayaka×Risa is a detriment to the overall story so I wonder how people think it could work or still be fulfilling in some way, other than "Hiroko sucks, Risa is best girl" so therefore she should get the girl.
Call me By Your Name arguably has some problematic aspects but I loved it all the same. I don't think it endorses whatever is happening. It's just a story about a young man falling in love with someone older that is arguably not the best for him. I like it because I've liked older people and at the end of the day you grow up and realize that sometimes the age gap is not the best thing in the world.

Yeah I know your stance I was just interested in your thoughts. And I haven't seen Call Me yet but maybe I should based on your description. I generally agree with your "Hiroko sucks, so Risa" idea. A lot of the times it feels like we're endorsing who we would personally like or date, rather than who the characters have expressed interest or compatibility with. But that's another discussion and people seem extra testy about Risa as it is lol. Thanks for the response.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 8:57AM