The game is afoot. Hiroko better watch her back from now on or a wild, provocatively dressed Ayaka might snatch her into a kabedon.

Seriously though, they addressed both positions well, here. Hiroko is still not comfortable but Ayaka is now unleashed to be as flirty as humanly possible. The confidence in this woman lol. She knows Hiroko liked that dress and the skipping her way out. She's literally threatening Hiroko with a good time.

last edited at Jul 1, 2023 1:58PM

Hmm, can't say I agree. I don't think I ever felt that Mai was deliberately using her uncanny seductive charm at the start, or was even aware of it.
I'd chalk a lot of the reduction in that behavior up to her becoming at least partly aware of what she's doing, especially in the later progression. Though that might just be me retconning my headcanon.

No that's the way it went, I'd say. The story was pretty clear about that and that's a huge part of the joke of the manga (Tae being an unreliable narrator who took simple gestures and interpreted them romantically because of Mai's physical development), but I guess at least a few disagree, here. There's never a point where Mai ever says she's aware, implies she's aware or acts as though she's aware and what's most relevant is that it never happens outside of Tae's skewed POV. Tae interprets something sexually, and afterwards Mai is nearly always shown just being a kid again, like normal, to reinforce the contrast. Then, of course we do see when Mai does finally realize her feelings, and that's much after these events. Haven't heard this interpretation elsewhere, really, outside of earlier chapters, so I'm also a bit surprised. We could bring in the author and publisher's words (where Mai's actions are described as totally "innocent" etc.) but that shouldn't be necessary, since I do think the story makes that clear enough but who knows.

the mangaka was tired of this story and had started another series she wanted to focus on. So she just gave this manga a whatever ending that left two thirds of the characters hanging and didn't properly end anything. That's all there is to this.

This is also not what happened. The author has already talked about this. There's nothing to suggest that this ending wasn't what was always planned. There are other reasons for why it had to end earlier (which they've implied they wish to discuss later and seem more a result of changed management after the closure last year).

last edited at Jun 30, 2023 6:27PM

Needs moar supervillain voice.

Add a maniacal laugh too.

“Disagreed” is not the same as “refuted.”

Agreed. "Refuted," because they know they're objectively "right;" so it's a refutation rather than normal discussion and disagreement. Unfortunate, because there wasn't even a real response to the other poster (or mine, I guess). Still interested in hearing a real explanation of how Mai's been retconned because I'm still genuinely confused by that idea. Either way discussion or disagreement isn't something to get ruffled about.

last edited at Jun 29, 2023 2:00PM

I have also seen absolutely nothing in this series that would in any way constitute a retcon; nothing of what has happened has been in any way changed by the later chapters.

First chapters Mai is a completely different character from final arc Mai.

Mai changing due to her experiences, whether we like it or not, whether we agree with it or not, does not make it a retcon. It does in no way invalidate the events of the early chapters. Do you even actually know what the word retcon means?

For that matter, I don't even see that much difference between the first chapters and the Mai from Christmas or the very last chapter, so it's beyond me why you would call her a completely different character...

Agreed. She's the same. Earlier chapters, she was always unaware of her effects. It was played for laughs and from the mind of Tae who interpreted everything romantically. Mai didn't know what she was doing until near the end. Definitely not a retcon or even a change, unless some people actually thought Mai was actively flirting earlier? That was the joke though. We see the exact moment when Mai finally realizes her feelings and actually decides to act on them. Before that it's not there and explains why she could be so carefree: she just didn't know what she was doing. Completely unintentional. We were following an unreliable narrator.

last edited at Jun 29, 2023 2:25PM

I get the feeling Kamejiro is pessimistic in general; the original had some powerful moments. There's a specific scene that comes to mind for pillar of my heart's payoff which will be devastating even if it's simply copy-pasted.

I get that same idea and I share her feeling. I can only really speak for writers but you never feel like you're doing enough. Your stuck reading the things you wrote over and over again. Eventually it always sounds terrible even if everyone else says it's good, even if it's published. You're trying to evoke a certain thing that only you can know if you've achieved. I've found her thoughts on Twitter to be really relatable and they're a large reason for my increased interest in the series, honestly. Become a fan of the author maybe more than the work. I look forward to the moment you mentioned!

last edited at Jun 29, 2023 2:30PM

Anyone know where I can read the webmanga? I'm super curious because ppl keep mentioning it here ;_;

She has them on her twitter, for one.

This is the prologue? Like, there's a whole entire rest of the story after this that we get to see? They're not just going to run off into the sunset?

The original web manga covered what the author calls Arc 1: The Capital Incident. Everything so far in the serialized version is likely prologue for that; it's gone well out of its way to flesh out the beginnings of Sara and Natalia's relationship in a way the original mostly sped through. The drip-feed of lore we're getting does seem to be setting things in place for the same incident to occur. And it ended with some consequences that necessitated the two going on a journey.

Kamejiro started this serialization with the intent of getting past that point and exploring more of the world. By now everyone could guess there's an earth nation and fire nation in addition to the wind and water nations, and there's even a decent amount of art for what the princesses of those nations are like—some very minor spoilers here—despite them never appearing in the original story. It's one of those stories the author has been brainstorming for a long time.

Which is all assuming the manga is successful enough to get there and other fun things to worry about, but yeah. While it's not set in stone or anything, Kamejiro wants this to be a sprawling fantasy adventure.

Awesome. Really looking forward to whatever they do. They also said they don't think they handle emotional scenes well but I think they've done a wonderful job.

Author: “I’m going to make an age gap that will fuck with the readers’ heads.”

Readers: “Wah! Our heads!”

Lol at the last chapter as well. Like it's suddenly a surprise. "What!? I've been reading an age gap this entire time! 32 chapters of it!! I've been bamboozled."

last edited at Jun 28, 2023 7:03AM

wait are we sure it got axed? like is there a source on that? would certainly explain this godawful ending but it sucks that a series that was so good up to this point had to rush like this

Not sure, but I think the magazine it was printed in is going out of business. That could potentially speed up an ending, but someone can correct me on that. I don't fully remember.

last edited at Jun 27, 2023 5:12PM

This series is the best.

Also why in the fuck would you not immediately tell your best friend who was into this guy that he is a massive creeper? Yeah it'll suck to have her crush stomped on, but you know what'd suck harder? Her getting taken in by him, abused, manipulated, abandoned, treated as a pawn for him to get to you.

Lol you would think, right? But no, she's apparently just "confused" and it's understandable. And she's not just going to hide it from her friend. Shes actually still planning to actively support her friends quest for this guy. It's so mad, it's funny. Knowing the future of the manga, how the guy is treated and how the girls react to him makes it worse and solidifies my opinion about the author's intentions here.

last edited at Jun 25, 2023 8:58AM

Well, that's kind of Yoh's personality -- it's even what the title of the manga is about. She's very self-sacrificing for Misa's sake, we saw that in earlier chapters too, albeit not to this extent. It's over the top and melodramatic but not outside the bounds of believability imo

There's self sacrificing and there's allowing yourself to be sexually assaulted on the regular because you're scared your crush might have hurt feelings. Idk if I'd call that just melodrama honestly.

Technically all she agreed to was just joining the student council. Putting herself in close proximity to Ren is certainly a bad idea but "getting sexually assaulted on the regular" wasn't her plan.

May not be her plan but he does it to her multiple times and this all happens before she accepts this deal... Then she wants to support her friend's push to be in a relationship with this same sexual assaulter. So, she intends to put both of them in harms way in order to prevent her friend from losing her crush, who is fine with forcing himself on women? The only way this makes sense is if the author thinks what this guy is doing is just "boy's being boys." The characters are acting like all of this is nothing serious.

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 4:56PM

Well, that's kind of Yoh's personality -- it's even what the title of the manga is about. She's very self-sacrificing for Misa's sake, we saw that in earlier chapters too, albeit not to this extent. It's over the top and melodramatic but not outside the bounds of believability imo

There's self sacrificing and there's allowing yourself to be sexually assaulted on the regular because you're scared your crush might have hurt feelings. Idk if I'd call that just melodrama honestly.

Yeah, I guess it makes sense in that way, in manga universe anyway. Ayaka does suspect Hiroko likes her but I really don't think their feelings are quite mutual in that Ayaka is practically head over heels and Hiroko just has a work crush on her. Maybe a bit more than a crush as Ayaka really triggers her insecurities in a way but she's not that depressed over losing her. She's just like "oh well". So I do feel Ayaka is really putting Hiroko on the spot here. She declared this in front a bunch of people and they're going to be expecting Hiroko to say something. Honestly, if Hiroko says something like "you mean you really love me as a senpai, right?" I wouldn't even blame her. What is she supposed to say? "That's nice Ayaka..."? Haha, anw sorry I'm being too negative. I just can't imagine how this is going to pan out and I'm here wondering, where is this going?

Nah, don't worry about being negative, its no big deal. I wouldn't even say you're being negative anyway. I actually expect Hiroko to respond exactly like you do. She'll probably deflect since she's not really been outed here. I personally think Hiroko does like Ayaka just as seriously but is just a different kind of personality. She's also in 5 levels of denial so it's hard to get a good idea of her feelings. The few moments she's "cracked" have been in Ayaka's favor though, like when she dragged Ayaka out of the bar and when her bar friend made her imagine Ayaka dating someone else.

I think Yoh's actions in this chapter are mostly understandable. Yeah, objectively speaking she should just tell Misa what happened. But she's a teenager and she doesn't want to break the heart of the girl she's in love with, so I can see why she went along with Ren's blackmail instead.

I'd say fair but he forcefully kissed her, then forcefully made out with her under the desk. That's way beyond blackmail for a crush's feelings, even ignoring the date.

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 1:10PM

And to expand on that point: her decision was definitely impulsive but that's her character. She's like that and for this story it's mostly a positive. To me, the story doesn't seem to be about changing those parts of her personality (like it sounds like you want? correct me if I'm wrong). Instead, the story seems more about showing that, that exact personality type is what's needed to force Hiroko to solve her own issues. Ayaka's brash, uncompromising, never-give-up personality is the only thing that could crack Hiroko's self-imposed walls. I see them as two people who are balancing each other's extremes. If Ayaka comes out this loud and proud, but nothing bad happens to her, there will be little for Hiroko to rationalize as an excuse. With the other methods, Hiroko might find more of the wiggle room she desperately craves.

It is also worth remembering that this story is a RomCom, and people in RomComs often behave like complete doofuses.

Yeah true, it's a not to be taken too seriously at the end of the day. I'm just really not a fan of "if she rejected you it just means try harder". Sometimes people need to mature. We can have romcoms that don't fall into those typical cliches. I tend to like stories that reflect real issues but I'm a bit overly demanding. We'll see how it goes for her :P
She's kinda like Gizelle from Enchanted in that sense I guess.

I generally agree about characters who don't quit. So we are definitely the same, there. I make an exception here in small part because its super funny but mostly because by this point Ayaka knows Hiroko likes her. She hasn't actually ever been rejected. Even the first "rejection" was more of an "I am too afraid to be public and want you to be happy," which Ayaka reads rightfully as "she likes me but is afraid of backlash, I'll show her not to be afraid." Before those points Hiroko deliberately never rejects Ayaka because she has always liked her but was avoidant. Hiroko lies about being gay once, but Risa immediately reveals that lie and makes Ayaka confused, etc. So to me, there's not been a real rejection yet, which is different than what happened with Risa.

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 11:55AM

I'm not sure what's happening in this thing anymore.

When I say people won't instantly be supportive I mostly mean they will probably act like they don't care and go on with their lives, not that they will be homophobic necessarily. I didnt mean to compare it to the Hiroko's experience either. Im sure the new people might be more chill. It's just that I don't think Ayaka will get what she wants out of this... I just don't think people are going to be like "way to go Ayaka, go get the girl!" I mean this is an office. And obviously people are going to gossip about it, not that she's gay only but that she likes Hiroko mostly. They're going to be like, wait since when? how? So she wasn't dressing up for them men? Was she dressing for Hiroko? Does Hiroko like her back? Did she even know this?
I just think it's a very dumb move. There are LGBT groups in offices. If Ayaka wanted to show Hiroko that she can be out she could put together a group along with Risa and invite people to join. She could still tell people she's gay but she doesn't need to yell it out like a crazy person. I mean how old is Ayaka? 23? 24?

Ok, I can agree with that! There are better ways for her to have done this, for sure. Maybe not for Hiroko's purposes, though. I think this way is more fun but mainly I agree with the earlier commenter, when they said:

...this is just really fitting for Ayaka's personality. Ayaka is exactly that impulsive, brash go-getter girl who goes for what she wants deep inside, damn the personal consequences.

And to expand on that point: her decision was definitely impulsive but that's her character. She's like that and for this story it's mostly a positive. To me, the story doesn't seem to be about changing those parts of her personality (like it sounds like you want? correct me if I'm wrong). Instead, the story seems more about showing that, that exact personality type is what's needed to force Hiroko to solve her own issues. Ayaka's brash, uncompromising, never-give-up personality is the only thing that could crack Hiroko's self-imposed walls. I see them as two people who are balancing each other's extremes. If Ayaka comes out this loud and proud, but nothing bad happens to her, there will be little for Hiroko to rationalize as an excuse. With the other methods, Hiroko might find more of the wiggle room she desperately craves.

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 10:03AM

Fluff chapter? Prepare for unnecessary drama.

Bet this series ends without them kissing. Do it you cowards!

I think you're safe from drama. It's got 3 chapters left so I'm thinking mostly smooth sailing.

It doesn't make sense for everyone to suddenly be super supportive. Though I suspect now more people are going to start coming out and this will spark a discussion but idk... idk how this can be handled correctly

13 years is a long time, though. Everyone doesn't need to be supportive but the atmosphere around these relationships and most importantly, how people think they're "supposed" to treat them can change. This office hasn't been "tested," Hiroko has just made reasonable assumptions. If most of them are younger like Ayaka and Risa, we already have 2 people whose views on coming out seem drastically different than Hiroko. That already suggests some possible shift in, at least, local public perceptions. Management might not be supportive but that doesn't mean they will have the same power to be as vindictive as they were in Hiroko's past. Last time it wasn't even management that fired Senpai, it was the rampant rumors etc. If the office treats this differently now, even if everyone isn't on board, the situation can be fine.

Even in modern offices in the US, everyone won't agree about social issues but if the atmosphere around acceptance has shifted people can be more reluctant to openly critique, or might have their critique nuetured a bit, out of fear of seeming against what's now considered good. That's obviously not always the case but still. In fact I don't see how anything else could be the case. After Ayaka has come out, having conversations in the office won't suddenly change behaviors. For this to work (and not be cheesy) it has to be that their behaviors were mostly already changed to begin with (cynically or not).

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 7:46AM

On the other hand, it is sure setting Ayaka up for some very public rejection.

I predict that'll roll off her shoulders since (after the bar) she now knows for sure that Hiroko likes her and will only "reject her" to save face. She's basically stress testing Hiroko's limits at this point lol.

I hate that this series is complete but untranslated. I would pay someone to do it if I had the money.

I'm super late but is it complete? Isn't it still updating? There was a new chapter posted this month?

Wow, I thought Ayaka would declare she was a lesbian, that I think would had been hmm more appropriate, but to involve Hiroko too, it feels like sort of a public outing other people..not cool. I'd never talk to her again

I could see that, yeah; though, she didn't really out Hiroko here. She only confessed her crush, and Hiroko still has an out of she wants it. People crush on their senpai's all the time. So this was basically that declaration of her being a lesbian that you mentioned, but with some added Ayaka flair.

last edited at Jun 23, 2023 3:31PM

Haha. Ayaka never gives up. And yeah, Risa, friendships can be powerful too. It's not girlfriend or nothing. I do feel bad for Hiroko here, though. She's about to have an absolute panic attack. Hopefully nothing bad comes from the outburst but stuff like this is exactly why she was worried about telling Ayaka in the first place. Ayaka now knows what the goal is and she's a pitbull. Hiroko doesn't stand a chance but she'll definitely resist.

last edited at Jun 23, 2023 12:28PM

Though it would be a neat idea to see a romantic comedy play out from the perspective of the love interest and not the one who fell for them first.

That sounds like a rather normal idea.

Perhaps this one as well. Hinoka fell first, indeed.

Model and Plain Manager is an example. That just ended here. That one doesn't shift perspectives at all.

last edited at Jun 22, 2023 6:35PM