Just saw this while editing the other comment:

If it affected Shiho so much you'd think we saw more signs of it

Maybe. I also don't want to go through the story again, so I feel you there. The whole reason for Shiho's new band was because she spent what seemed to be years visiting her grave and keeping her (the grave) updated on her life updates. She met the other friends at this grave (after quitting the band and coming there to cry) and they decided to create the band (and go back into her unhealthy relationship with music) because of this friend. I don't know if "friend" is the best word, I agree, because Shiho tended to push people away when she felt insecure. We could define it however, but she was affected and I understood much of her actions to be somewhat based on this new directive and guilt (which then gets mixed up in the fight with Aki).

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 10:44AM

Now, within the story it is correct that Shiho is what triggered the change in Aki, but doubt it was necessary. IMO, Aki would have overcome it on her own or through a different trigger, albeit later in life, maybe after graduating. I just hate the execution of it all, with Aki showing more regret than Shiho ever did.

I'll focus on this part since the "unhealthy" language doesn't matter and this sentence is what we agree on and was somewhat the point anyway. Yes, it might be true that she'd eventually struggle through on her own, just like all of us might get through our struggles on our own, but once someone or some thing does interfere and affect us positively or negatively, we can't ever know for sure. It's hard to say what was "necessary." In this arc/story, Shiho's presence inadvertently helped Aki's struggle, that's just the observation.

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 10:42AM

I caught up with the comments, they certainly didn't disappoint, but I think this one sums up my thoughts perfectly:

Shiho didn't do anything wrong - if she did it was justified - if it isn't justifiable it wasn't that bad - if it was that bad it's because she a teenager

... and if it's not because she is a teenager, it's because she had an acquaintance that died. (I'd hesitate to say they were even friends).

Won't really touch this stuff. Maybe someone else can/will if that's what they said. Doesn't seem to apply to me.

We can argue all day about what it means for the character to be "well-written", but I'm still low-key shocked there's people that straight up like Shiho. I don't think she has a single redeeming quality to her (and as people helpfully pointed out, even in this big reconciliation chapter she still didn't really say anything positive to anyone, she basically barely accepted someone else pouring her heart out). Even if you argue she faced lots of difficulties, setbacks, breakups or whatever, she's still very unlikeable because of the way she reacted to it (which is being a bitch in almost every appearance). If this chapter was meant to portray any sort of change, I think it mostly failed at that (and no, dead girl doesn't help, I still see it mostly as a cheap gotcha).

Yeah, not liking or liking her is up to the individual (and unavoidably affected by personality, background etc.). From my perspective, the only change this chapter focused on (and the point of the dead girl) was Shiho's giving up her destructive, self-isolating based on her insecurities. She is not changing in the sense of altering her overall personality; instead she's finally deciding (while being pushed along the way by Aki and Hime) that it might not be the best idea to run away from those (aka. Aki) she has complicated relationships with as that has not worked out. The dead girl is once again reminding her of what that decision resulted in last time. Her last line is more of a tongue-in-cheek, typical tsundere phrase that is not-unexpected for her personality and one you could take offence to but I don't personally see as anything antagonistic. It'll work for some, not for others, but that's how I read the decision or "change" she's making, here. It's a slight but important change of decision created mostly through Aki's persistence. And I've already said something about Aki's handshake and her delayed revelation, so I'll leave that.

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 11:09AM

More hints at Sara's past. In case you hadn't noticed, the dial's shifting from Natalia being a mess that needs Sara looking after her to the other way around. Kamejiro recently summed up their relationship as, "If I take my eyes off her, she's going to get herself hurt (x2)" which I find very appropriate.

Yes the personality of their relationship changes subtly nearly each chapter. That's a great quote.

How was Aki's love unhealthy? I don't think it has ever affected her, or anyone else, negatively. It was unrequited, but she took it like a champ. She accepted that Yori did not love her back, stayed friends and did her best to not let her love influence her behaviour, until she was ready to move on. I would say that is a pretty much textbook how to do case.

Unhealthy in the sense that it was something she was struggling to get over, struggling to understand her feelings with this new change.

So in other words, a textbook healthy way of dealing with an unrequited love is going to be defined as “unhealthy” in order to make the case for Shiho’s entry into the narrative?

This is argument as word game.

My goodness lol. If you want to use a different word, fine. Call it an obstacle, an issue, troubles, her trauma or don't use an adjective at all etc. This is not useful. I described what I meant and when questioned, took the chance to further explain. My point doesn't change regardless. Aki was beginning to work through something. I'm not going to now argue over semantics. I'm also not really "making a case," in the way that phrase normally works. We're sharing different perspectives on how we read and interacted with the story. I was replied to by someone I hadn't talked to and replied back.

I didn't reply to that post because I got caught up in the heat of the debate, but you were able to put into words many of the thoughts that I had but just didn't know how to express them adequately, so I hope you continue to write those.

Yeah, agree or disagree, those longer posts are fun to read and think about. They're also not essays at all. They're a couple paragraphs, if even that. Not that much. It's better than one sentence quips and the "gotcha" comments, to me They create or move discussion somewhere.

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 9:16AM

Of course, this simple pattern gets uprouted by our complex, tangled emotions, so we are all to happy to break the pattern for people we feel empathy towards. Which can be a good thing, since the Code of Hammurabi is not exactly the peak legal system of humanity, IMO. In this case, however, it just means people who don't care to assign blame for Shiho's objective faults like her enough to pattern-break, and the rest do not. Nothing all too complicated or surprising.

We're closer to something, somewhat agreeable I guess but not really there. For example, your characterization of "not caring to assign blame for Shiho's faults" is a bit hollow (unless you're just grouping every person who disagrees with you into the same pot of beliefs). I'm not sure where I've not assigned her blame or fault for something? Not fixating on blame is not disregarding culpability. Regardless, I'm not surprised by reactions, they've been mostly predictable, for better or worse. It's just necessary to mention when things become a bit messy and unproductive.

How was Aki's love unhealthy? I don't think it has ever affected her, or anyone else, negatively. It was unrequited, but she took it like a champ. She accepted that Yori did not love her back, stayed friends and did her best to not let her love influence her behaviour, until she was ready to move on. I would say that is a pretty much textbook how to do case.

Unhealthy in the sense that it was something she was struggling to get over, struggling to understand her feelings with this new change. Shiho's appearance came at a perfect or (maybe I should say) "useful" time for Aki. It gave Aki something to fixate on and prioritize over dealing with her lose of Yori. Yes, Aki wasn't self sabotaging or acting in a destructive way but she verbalized her discomfort and uncertainty about her future and place on a couple occasions. Shiho came right after Aki lost Yori. Her introduction directly cut into the beginnings of Aki's road to accepting her loss. We don't really know if things would have become worse over time but we do know that Aki was still transitioning then, and was still unsure of where she could stand. Through these events with Shiho, Aki could right what she felt was an old wrong, get her mind off her heartache with Yori but most importantly, recontextualize her relationship with Yori and Hime (which she does quite a bit during this arc and talks about).

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 7:58AM

Also, it seems that people keep saying they are upset with this chapter because Aki is the one who apologized and Shiho didn't... but I didn't take any of what Aki said as an apology. She does kinda indirectly say she was wrong, so maybe people consider that an apology? To me, she just said they were both misunderstanding, or "didn't know who they really were" so now that they do know, now that the air is cleared, she would like to start over. And I think that's great. I think that's awesome writing.

Nice, I was waiting for your response, honestly. It's turned into a bit of a mess. And agreed about what Aki's doing here. But I already mentioned the fixation with blame, external punishment and this tiresome (and sometimes oddly flippant) Aki vs. Shiho thing. They both feel guilty for different things, for sure and by the nature of her character much of Shiho's "punishment" is internal and self inflicted. What I find important is that Aki (with some great help from Hima) succeeds in saving Shiho from her unhealthy desire for self destructive isolation (as well as her unhealthy relationship to music that connects to her insecurities) and while doing so Aki is saved/saves herself, inadvertently through Shiho's antics, from her unhealthy unrequited love. I don't know that she would have moved on from her crush had it not been for these very trying and emotional events that were strong enough to pull her attention for such a long period of time. This is honestly a moment of strength for Aki and it's no wonder this important chapter chose to focus the agency and ultimately the choice with her. They both reset their relationship to each other but also within themselves so it'll be interesting to see how they are after everything. I imagine they'll have more interactions in the future to flesh their new status out and talk more. They only separated a couple months ago so it's not like it's been years. Everything doesn't need to be said all at once.

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 6:40AM

This is easily my favorite right now.

I'm pretty sure Yuzu would be happy with any form of physical intimacy as reassurance at this point. Just being held in Mei's arms for a while would probably do wonders for her insecurities.

True, if this moment and this moment aren't enough to settle her down, Mei might need to do more. It's just that Mei is also going through a lot work wise and is normally reserved so I don't see this settling for a bit. Mei might cuddle Yuzu then have a dinner meeting with Arata and suddenly Yuzu will become insecure again. They need some extended discussions about insecurities and work/life balance.

Although part of Mei's current work is an attempt to free herself up for Yuzu.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 8:17PM

Which is irrelevant because Yuzu's insecurities are directly stemming from the fact that her partner apparently doesn't want to have sex with her. And this isn't even the first instance. Mei may very well be ace, but Yuzu isn't and that's something that should be broached, but hasn't yet.

I don't feel like this is about sex, specifically--maybe affection and insecurities but not sex. In this chapter, Mei also says to her friend that she was perfectly fine with being pushed down (and the kissing etc.) but felt like the reason for Yuzu's aggression was likely not normal romance but the stress coming from meeting Arata, something unhealthy that worried Mei. She hasn't really said anything about having an aversion to sex or affection and she's shown herself to be fine with physical contact many times, unless I'm forgetting something. She just seems naturally reserved and chronically overworked.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 5:48PM

New girl reminds of the friend from the age gap manga about the adult manga fan and her favorite mangaka, who was younger (forgetting the name, atm). Almost a 1-to-1 resemblance and personality, and the same basic story setup too. Hopefully this goes a bit differently.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 5:34PM

Had a good conversation/disagreement on the other site, which resulted in what I thought was a good response from the other person. They said:

"Yuzu has always been the one pushing the relationship, coming up with solutions. And even if she got into a slump her friends would give her the push she needed to fix things. Now her partner faces a huge challenge, one that basically decides their future and there's nothing that she can do but sit by and watch. Yuzu needs someone that can help her with her insecurities."

"[However] Mei is probably stressed out and doesn't have the capacity to do that and is instead looking for Yuzu to provide a safe space [away from the stress of work], something that Yuzu isn't able to provide because of her insecurities."

Mei has just recently (chapter 32) communicated to Yuzu about exactly how much she means to her and what comfort her presence has become for Mei. But that hasn't helped their issues.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 4:55PM

I'm finding the few chapters completely confusing.

What do you need help with?

But, it is interesting as well that Aki just seemed to accept her quitting, and then replaces her like what would admittedly be normal, but then when they run into each other again she questions why she really quit. It supports the theory that Aki was just too fixated on Yori in the past to really give a thought to Shiho before.

I was thinking about this after I received a reply over on Mangadex. Forgot to mention that Aki does regret not stopping Shiho back then. She says this directly in this chapter ("I don't want to repeat the regret I felt from not stopping you back then"). It's not really her responsibility to do so, but being human, it seems she did feel guilty about not looking into Shiho back then. I imagine that stems from her never actually believing Shiho's reasoning for leaving. She has alluded to (and outright said) that there's something else bothering Shiho, and never fully inquiring about that motive must have been one of her regrets. That being the case can further explain her present insistence on getting Shiho to admit her real reasoning this time (with the battles and the tricks), once she's run into Shiho after the year had passed. She really wanted to make up for what she saw as a regret and had been bothering her for some time (plus just normal irritation from Shiho's antics).

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 11:49AM

Haha yeah there it is. Yes, everyone else just doesn't like, understand, or cant identify quality. At least you said it. I always respect it when it comes upfront rather than being wrapped up in other language.

Lol if by everyone else you mean you and the small minority that seem to believe this is some sort of flawless masterpiece and will deflect all criticism by claiming it's from haters or headcanon a solution out of thin air then yeah, but hey don't le me disturb that echo chamber of yours

At least you're honest.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 9:00AM

Sena looking out for Kiku again and still being confused by her as well. The memory of what Kiku wanted flashing before Sena's eyes were funny. You could practically here her again wondering why this woman is so confusing. "Didn't you want to be with me for this!?"

It kinda always feels like I'm floating in the ocean reading it.

Awesome way to put it.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 8:17AM

More like responsability but again I guess being oh so hurt like shiho justifies basically everything, I guess not everyone is interested on craftsmanship of a story and would rather just enjoy the emotions of the moment regardless of how the character got there

Haha yeah there it is. Yes, everyone else just doesn't like, understand, or can't identify quality. At least you said it. I always respect it when it comes upfront rather than being wrapped up in other language.

I did pause and consider that maybe some of what I was saying was a bit head cannon from me while I was writing that original post, however upon further discussion and reflection I do genuinely believe there is some substance to back up my opinions, as you can see from my previous posts. They aren't just based on nothing. Sure, there's not much to support my claims, but there's not anything to disprove them either.

I wouldn't let people convince you that your headcannoning anything. You're interpreting text and using common human experience to contextualize the story. You're drawing parallels. That's normal when reading and analyzing a text. Because some disagree with you does not make your interpretation any lesser and you shouldn't be convinced of that. You have evidence and explanations to explain yourself. You're fine. Stories don't have to and don't normally show everything. They're not all so blunt, though most manga can be. Besides these discussions that are sparked are actually interesting rather than the "ughhs."

You're also clearly thinking deeply about the material and willing to go back and forth on it. So I'd say you're good.

i just gave it a reread, and from what is shown that isnt her giving up on yori, as much as its her doing the best she can to act as a good friend in the moment, considering that the next time we see her in chapter 20 she is swooning over yori again, which i would say indicates that she is trying to give up but cant due to lingering affection

Yes, the only definitive point where she realizes she's given up on Yori is a couple chapters ago. In that chapter she alluded to not being surprised to realize that her feelings for Yori were done ("I knew it"). It seems they'd been done for at least some time and she'd felt that change somewhere. But that's also human nature. There's not a single point where you're in love, then out of love. It's like a color gradient. It happens gradually and often you realize it in retrospect. This is what Aki does.

We don't know exactly when she drops out of love because much of the last 30 chapters were mixed up with Shiho and the battle. Maybe you were looking for something more dramatic (a "relevation?"). Aki had little time to pause and really assess her feelings for Yori but once she did, she realized that somewhere along the way she'd already lost that love. That made her happy and finally confident that she could responsibly enter another relationship with a person. She was afraid to connect with another person (Shiho or not) while she still harbored a deep crush. So when she realized that her heart has no longer been tied to an unattainable person, she fully decides it's fair to be with someone else ("I've decided"). In this case she later says something about it being fair to Shiho. Fair in this context is not in the sense of blame or culpability.

That's a major change for her and one that happens before she's even realized it, hence the handshake revelation's not being her finally moving on but being the moment she realized that she'd already moved on ("I knew it"). The handshake was more of a confirmation rather than a decision. I also don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the situation with Shiho helped those feelings for Yori dissipate over these last chapters as she focused on something else, but that's another thing and doesn't change much.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 8:44AM

People keep saying it's Shiho's fault for not giving a reason for distancing herself... but she did? She expresses multiple times (in what people describe as antagonizing the band) that she thinks they are low level and she's better than them. That's her excuse, that the SS Girls weren't serious enough and she's too good for them. Aki doesn't accept that later, which she's right obviously, that wasn't really the reason, but it's still a solid reason and why she's fallen out with bands before.

Good point. I never got around to mentioning that she did indeed give her reasons. Reasons that the rest of the band accepted (and verbally accepted) but Aki did not. Aki this time showed an increased awareness for Shiho's feeling that she didn't have when she was fixated on Yori back then. That could be an interesting thing to discuss when thinking about how long she had actually moved on from that infatuation. The hand holding a couple chapters ago was her final moment of recognizing her crush was over. And in that moment she says something that implies she'd already known her love was over, even before the handshake test. So it was over a while before this chapter and that was hinted at (pretty bluntly) chapters ago.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 10:11PM

Nop she indeed throws shade at yori in order to tick off aki but in the festival chapter she just keeps bad mouthing yori in front of her girlfriend wich lead to hima stepping up, she does apologizes for that but let's not forget that when she notices yori jealousy she looks at her and gives a smug look, if that's not antagonizing yori by using hima I guess we'll just have to disagree indeed

You're mixing up events. Those things did not happen together or back to back. Those were chapters apart, not all at one event (on completely different days). Also the "glance" was just that, a glance after Shiho ran into them during the festival at night. She glanced at Yori as she left Yori and Hima to themselves because she saw Yori watching how friendly she and Hima had become (since she was their manager). That chapter was all about Yori's insecurities. Also she is not really being rude at the moment Hima "steps up." They are at school, not the festival. After seeing Hima light up from Yori's text, she says "What do you like about her anyway...your senpai is a wonderful person to you, maybe." Not nice but not some major attack, more an acknowledgement that she views Yori differently because of her past (and clearly resentment because of her past etc). That is what prompts Hima (who had already been wondering why Shiho also disliked Yori) to finally ask where that was coming from. Shiho apologizes for saying that in front of Hima, not for disliking Yori. Shiho obviously dislikes Yori, that is not in dispute. And lastly, the original comment discussed some effort to mess with Yori by using Hima. That is what I responded to anyway. "Using Hima" only happened with that quick glance. That's it. Otherwise she genuinely liked Hima and loved having her around.

Shiho didn't actually overcame anything, she literally just ironed her will to be alone and throw aki aside just to literally be dragged by hima and then aki did literally everything to save that relationship
Shiho is not sorry for being rude to her friend she's sorry for not being able to throw them off completely. She hasn't and probably never apologize for all the times she called them and inferior band and other instances of her being a complete ass.....Yeah I can certainly agree with that, this arc truly was about aki going head first into the mud that is dealing with shiho, to drag her out even is she didn't deserve it, truly cementing her as the best character of this manga

If that's how you want to continue to view it (blame, deserve), that's your right. We obviously are focused on different things.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 9:52PM

Maybe I'm misremembering but I'm pretty sure aki didn't force the battle of the bands as a means to get an answer out of shiho, iirc shiho as usual started to antagonize sunny spot and belittle them as an inferior band and in the heat of the moment aki challenged her. Himawari clearly overstepped in this situation but trying to paint the situation as aki "pushing a reconciliation" is simply not true

You are misremembering. I can give you the chapter if you want. Aki literally introduced the battle in order to make Shiho promise that if Aki could win, Shiho would reveal why she left the band. That was the entire reason. She talks with her band and with Yori right before doing this. In fact, that happens right after Shiho is again snuck up on by Aki in a hallway. Also Hima specifically and deliberately discusses her plans to force reconciliation. She literally talks about this on numerous occasions.

Did she not tho? I'm pretty sure there's even a chapter when hima has to step up to confront shiho because she simply won't shut up about how he's better than yori and how she will beat Sunny spot.

Yes, Shiho makes some comments about Yori in an effort to tick off Aki (and of course her own insecurity). There was not a whole chapter about this at all. It was a moment at the end of a chapter. Hima confronted her about it and Shiho genuinly apologized and explained why she feels that way and where it comes from. That was when Shiho then confides in Hima and reveals that she had loved Aki in the past, again to Hima. If you'd call that some concerted effort to antagonize Yori with Hima, then fine. We'd have to disagree.

If the latest chapter weren't about whose fault was, why there's such an emphasis on aki realizing her "mistakes" and her apologies to shiho in the form of her song

Because Aki is a character/person just like Shiho is, and they will rationalize their situations using that language. Shiho also blames herself and admits her culpability to Hima in an earlier chapter. The latest chapter is about their reconciliation and overcoming their obstacles whether self-made, products of their past, or their circumstances. There was a reason Shiho saw the ghost of her dead "rival," before fully giving in. It was about Aki saving Shiho from herself and her destructive isolation but also Aki (inadvertently through the help of Shiho) fully embracing a life free of her unrequited love (which she already realized was dead, a few chapters ago).

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 9:13PM

Not only the mental gymnastics are amazing but the selective memory is also in another level with the shiho fans, it's just hilarious that people are trying to blame aki of anything when in reality aki did gave shiho space, as the mature person she is, she accepted shiho s childish tantrum and kept on with her life and band activities. Shit really went south when himari intervene and tried to forced a reconciliation and even at that point aki always acted mature and never tried to force anything out of shiho

I really don't think the point of this arc is to blame either of them. However, Aki and Hima did indeed push this confrontation onto Shiho. Their first meeting was random (Aki and Shiho did not know they would be in the same event), then Aki pushed her questions (which she has a right to do). Aki was the one to introduce and challenge Shiho to this battle of the bands. Hima was the one to trick them into meeting for lunch and work behind the scenes for them to meet (once again tricking Shiho to go). Shiho also was not bad to Hima and certainly did not "go out of her way to antagonize Yori by involving Hima." Aki repeatedly expressed her desires not to be involved with Shiho and was shown on multiple occasions to avoid them. She did not care about Aki's band until Aki challenged her to the battle. I'm not sure that her actions could be described as "fomenting hostility." Her band had no hostility. She kept that to herself (meaning coming from herself) and at most wanted them to win the battle. She had two moments where she involved Hima, one coming after Aki pushed the battle of the bands idea, and the other at the festival. Both times she immediately apologized for getting caught up in the moment. Beyond that she did not do much and showed far more moments of friendship and genuine closeness with Hima, closeness which Hima reciprocated. Shiho also admitted her faults to Hima and accepted her responsibility for not ending things properly, to Hima. When she finally decided to end things right, Hima and Aki again pushed against that desire (once again tricking Shiho to meet them), eventually leading to this chapter. There's a couple narrative and thematic reasons for this constant pulling (or "saving") of Aki back into the fold by Hima and Shiho but that's a whole different thing. The way Shiho is discussed is beyond the pale compared to what she actually does in the series. I almost think people have forgotten the sequence of events because its been so long. "Incel behavior" is out of this world. Either way, blame, again is not really a useful lens to look through here. The fixation with that is really messing up any useful discussion and I do not think the author intended for that to be what you get out of this (and that may be what separates our ability to enjoy this arc) but we obviously disagree.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 8:28PM

I personally really enjoyed this arc for all it's worth. But i also don't see this resolution as them starting to date or anything (at least not right away).

To me it just feels like they finally reconnected on the premise that Aki knows and accepts Shiho's feelings for her and, while not reciprocating outright (yet), wants to give their relationship the opportunity to develop from here on out. And Shiho finally letting go of her "if I can't be together with her i won't be in her life at all" attitude and being willing to see where said development will take them.

Yes, about Shiho. It'll also be interesting to watch their reset now without all the hidden feelings and circumstances. A more honest relationship, whatever form it takes.

Until the next time Shiho wants something Aki cannot give or does not know about. Since Shiho did not change, I see no reason to assume it is gonna go differently the next time.

As the above commenter said, I think the cleared air, the experience of being apart, and also an understanding of each others' feelings can make this new chance conclude differently.

Then what, pray tell, did you say? I honestly don't get it. What other argument COULD be made by bringing up popularity in response to arguments about quality and craftsmanship?

We've done this thing enough, haven't we? I did not even involve you in my earlier responses about this issue. I'm not really interested in having this whole thing again. We'll have to agree to disagree, mark it up to misunderstandings or miscommunications and move on, as I said before.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 5:24PM

This arc was incredible. I don't think I've ever quite seen any other story depict so well a couple that didn't work and then changed until they could work (since How Do We Relationship never quite worked...)... "If I'm not the person you thought I was, and you're not the person I thought you were" is a beautiful way to convey how their old selves just couldn't have been together in any way, because their feelings were not aligned, and how only because Aki changed and Shiho was willing to accept that things were not the same as before could they get a new chance together.

The first couple was fine, but I couldn't describe it as more than a nice yuri romance, although that's still praise. The way the second couple was written, developed, and the source of their conflicts felt far more real, unique and significant, and elevates this far beyond just "one more romance story".

Well said and agreed. "How Do We Relationship" hasn't ended yet, so who knows how that will wind up! (I'm assuming you were comparing the relationships and not the manga itself?). I find HDWR a much better (more real) version of this kind of thing though.

And for their new relationship, since the underlying issues that lead Shiho to break it off in the first place have never been resolved, or even addressed for that matter, I give them a year at most.

Not sure what you mean by this but I think they'll be fine--maybe a little bumpy. They were fine before the unrequited crushes, they'll likely be fine now. Hopefully we get to see some of how they try and work things out in the future.

No one said anything about giving any prizes to this manga. All they did was make comment about the popularity of the characters.

Not that surprising and not that big of a deal. What else can be said when something is unquestionably popular but they don't like it? I do that sometimes too before I catch myself as a writer. What I find interesting though is how opinions can shift from forums like these to other places, not even just countries. That's why I responded to someone who once again mentioned the completely different reception to this arc in other spaces like its home country. It's still hard to gauge feelings even here though because without some sort of like button, those who would rather not get involved in "discourse" like this don't get to have their "votes" cast. Kind of skews perceptions.

If you go back a bit in the forum, you will find discussions of quality regarding this manga, with SrNevik making the argument that a large amount of readers liking it is a quality the manga has which makes it well-crafted, at least as far as I understood their viewpoint.

Wow that's not really what I said but that's a very old thing by now.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 4:52PM

I feel it's like when there was silence in some Japanese anime movie, just the wind blowing over some field, the American dubbers added some random background dialogue, because the American audience is mostly incapable of understanding what's NOT said.

Yeah that stuff was terrible. Lol. Agreed. What did Miyazaki call it, the "Mu," or "Ma."

Edit (quotes):

We have a word for that in Japanese. It's called ma. Emptiness. It's there intentionally. The time in between my clapping is ma. If you just have non-stop action with no breathing space at all, it's just busyness. but if you take a moment, then the tension building in the film can grow into a wider dimension. If you just have constant tension at 80 degrees all the time you just get numb....The people who make the movies are scared of silence, so they want to paper and plaster it over. They're worried that the audience will get bored. They might go up and get some popcorn. But just because it's 80 percent intense all the time doesn't mean the kids are going to bless you with their concentration. What really matters is the underlying emotions -- that you never let go of those.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 8:34AM

I thought the love triangle bit would involve Yuria

I thought the same, and I think the story was low-key setting up such a scenario. It could be that it was the plan. I see that the story was cancelled, so maybe that plotline was dropped?

Maybe but I think it was more to show Sena's slowly opening up to people and finally making connections beyond just Kiku and her sister. She has similar moments with her manager/editor as well. So I never sensed any romantic potential from Yuria. Yuria also seemed to suspect Sena and Kiku's relationship from the start. Sena also made it clear during one of her meeting with Yuria, that while being with Yuria is also fun, her being with Kiku was always a slightly different feeling (one that made her nervous). So it's the series' patented discussion about the difference between platonic affection/love and romantic affection/love. Yuria seems squarely platonic.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 8:27AM