^Strong agree. They really do feel like sisters, down to the point of saying dumb shit to bug each other. It gives me life, so wholesome.

^^Oh god it’s too powerful, I’m losing my mortal sou

Me when

when I feed my cat

Oh my lord this is so cute. Hnnng. Although, after their talk, I feel like this is the rare situation where this would be reversed; Kiara’s nervous and self-conscious about the bath, and Calli’s just vibing

^I just did, god that’s scary.

She can’t hide her laugh, this is too cute.

Also I can literally hear Kiara laughing, that sound is so distinctive.

last edited at Nov 14, 2020 12:25PM

Moar crossick!

Hate was a strong word. My bad. It's actually just what I don't understand about a polyamory relationships.

I believe you.

And coming at it from this angle means things vis a vis polyamory can be addressed, so I’ll do that if you’d like to read. No claws this time, either.

I don't get what you mean. There's plenty of unrequited love out there, and it's cruel. Life is often cruel.

Life is cruel, no doubt; but I don’t see how that has bearing on whether it’s cruel to go into a place where there’s for sure poly people to say, “I hate polyamory.” You’re queer—I’m sure you know what that feels like, for others to see stuff like that in a place they might want to believe would be safe. It seems you recognize this was... indelicately put, though, so yeah.

Furthermore, because Rin is polyamory and a lot of people aren't, the people who she can't fully love end up getting hurt.

I mean you could say this of gay, ace, or trans people as well—are we responsible for the pain of those that wish we were different than we are? Am I to blame when a man gets angry because I don’t like men, so I can’t be with him the way he wants? It’s true that someone when someone is poly in a world that doesn’t have room or understanding for that, there will be pain. But that isn’t the responsibility of the poly person.

Furthermore—she did fully love both of them. That’s the thing with poly; you can love multiple people fully, in different ways. Just like how you have friends for different reasons, you might have different loves, but having multiple friends doesn’t mean you like a given friend any less—it might even mean that you get to have some needs met elsewhere, and spend more time in the core of what makes that relationship enjoyable to y’all.

If you approach it with mono frameworks, which say (for example) that wanting other people while in a relationship means you don’t love your partner enough, it’s hard to grasp how poly relationships actually work. This is a little like when straight people say, “who’s the man?”—it’s a perfectly reasonable question from a certain point of view, but it misses the point of how queer and het relationships are different.

So, going back to the text, the problem was that she couldn’t choose between them, because she loved both of them. They wanted mono love, and she doesn’t love like that. How would you choose between two people you loved dearly, like two children, two members of your found family? Would you press someone you cared about to make such a choice? I think what we’re seeing here is A) a clash between the needs of a poly person and someone who is not okay with being in a poly relationship, and B) poor communication and consideration from the friend—which, sometimes it be like that when you’re in highschool.

I also noticed a language of probability or luckiness in your discussion of poly and if Rin’s situation, which I’ll address in a second.

Before I get into that, though—I don’t want to mix personal stuff with what I intend to be an even-keeled discussion of polyamory. So all I’ll say is, if where you’re at now is wishing you were heterosexual, I’m sorry if anybody made you feel like that was a bad thing. Your feelings on that are valid and deserve space, esp. from a support group. I’ve been somewhere similar, and it was fucking rough; I hope you can get to a place where that’s no longer the headspace that it makes sense for you to be in, but I also know that sometimes, that’s where it makes sense for you to be. And, I want you to know that some members of my found family are fat and queer and poly, and they are finding their joy, even though things are rough sometimes; there is a space for all those things in this world. However you are, there is hope and kindness out there, and a time where safety is not so pressing and you can put joy and healing first.

So, back to the issue of luck. I can see there’s a logic from which Rin might seem entitled, having two women that love her and not choosing either of them. Could she not settle for one of them?

I think there’s multiple tacks here. The one that immediately presents itself to me is that settling for a relationship is often a doomed scenario, and doubly so if you’re settling because there’s a part of you that person rejects. For her to go along with this person that she cares about, but not have access to her full orientation—and likely to be constantly fed a jealous person’s perspective on her needs, that would be really painful. I also don’t think things can be reduced to an equation of, “choose one and have one, or neither and have one.” Choosing her friend under the tree means actively rejecting her other friend—I don’t think she’s willing to do that part of the choice, because she loves both of them.

Basically, I think that scenario was never going to work out in a way that was okay for Rin. She was in a double bind, so to speak; her friends weren’t honest with her about their intentions for literally years, pretending to be friendly with one another while always hoping she’d choose one over the other, until at the end she’s the one stuck holding the bag, and they’ve removed opportunity for communication. That’s kind of fucked up.

Rin of course has the advantages of being thin, cis, and conventionally attractive, and so might not have to consider the logic of “is this the last time someone will be interested in me” like some of us do. But I think she made the best choice for herself in this scenario. I think even a scenario where she deals with the fallout of this relationship without falling in love again or having people that want to get with her would be a happier read than watching her suffer more in that relationship, if that makes sense.

Anyway, I hope this leaves you (or whoever’s reading) better able to understand poly relationships.

last edited at Nov 13, 2020 1:06PM

Tbf both fo your contributions didn't exactly contribute that much.

You don’t think an analysis of why the story works contributes anything to the discussion about that story? I’m sorry, it seems I didn’t get the memo; should I start making constant deprecating comments about the manga’s quality or prospects which contain absolutely no discussion about what the work does wrong or why it fails to resonate? When someone disagrees with me, shall I immediately retreat to the old “everything’s subjective” non-argument? Perhaps sprinkle in some high-handed “you’re a meanie!” spice so people know I mean business? Ooh, and maybe if I’m feeling bold, I’ll push all responsibility for my actions onto others; that way, if multiple people get frustrated at me, I can easily justify to myself that it’s not because I’m being an obnoxious, smug gadfly, it’s because they’re fragile people for getting annoyed!

You know, on second thought, that doesn’t sound very fun.

bruh relationships aren't supposed to be draining, they are supposed to be fulfilling, het detected.

To be fair, poly relationships take a lot of effort, and they’re not for everyone. But if they are for you, they’re worth it.

Oh wow, just discovered this. This manga is really special.

^ 0///0

Here's what I hate about polyamory right?

You can’t be for real right now.

Yes, it can and does work out. You’re coming in here with that “well I don’t like women, so lesbian relationships must be really fragile,” type of bullshit? Did you consider that maybe other people have different experiences and needs other than your own before you brought out the arrogant, ignorant, “the way these other people find love, care, and community in non-traditional ways seems kind of shitty ngl” bit like you know all the ways humans can care for each other? Maybe you think it’s unrealistic—but that’s not exactly news to the many, many poly people who are out there making this “unrealistic” scenario work, who constantly hear dumb-ass unsolicited opinions like this one from strangers with no skin in the game.

Did you think this would productively contribute to the discussion? Is there no better place you could vent your disapproval than a forum for a comic that I know has drawn poly people? Like, maybe you could bring it to that partner of yours. “Man, baby, I can’t believe other people are out there in relationships that look different from ours. I can’t imagine myself being in a relationship like that, so nobody else should do it either.” That’s what you, an “adult,” sound like.

I’m not even gonna humor the position that poly relationships taking work is a reason to say they’re wack. I don’t have to because we’ve got evidence against that which you’re apparently just not interested in looking for.

Disgraceful.

last edited at Nov 12, 2020 11:45PM

(Ch 8)

Damn, this manga makes me more hot than many hentai, don't know why.

It absolutely is. Because it feels real, but just on the boundary because what’s happening is so spicy. It’s like taking the hottest moments of a real person’s life, and not just putting them all together but aligning them into a compelling narrative that gives stakes and context to everything that’s happening. The only thing that’s less than totally believable is how much good stuff is happening, and the story makes you want to believe.

The moment in this chapter where Rin is watching while Akira and Mayuki kiss, and Akira is embarrassed but also clearly super turned on, absolutely destroyed me. On top of the scene’s own merits, you can just see the triad dynamic beginning to take shape, the future promise of that the three-person scenario where you’re losing yourself in one partner while the other watches, voracious and hot-eyed, and you feel like you’re being devoured by the two people you want the most even while your comfortable mutual affection, and the knowledge that someone you trust is watching over you, fills you up.

Ahem.

You could say I’m excited to see how this develops.

As to the “why” question, like why is all this so good, I dropped a comment a chapter or two back explaining what I think about Canno’s portrayals of intimacy in this story. I’ll quote it here:

people are talking a lot about how the kisses in this story are really intense despite not involving anything explicitly sexual, etc.—if I had time I’d go close-read the passages and make a comment from that, but I don’t, so suffice it to say it’s because 1) each scene is really strongly grounded in an emotional context both through the background we have about the characters and immediate setup right before it, 2) the artist really understands the physical acts of making out, how it feels, how it happens, and what it looks like, and can accurately depict this and 3) they have a really solid understanding of desire, and especially different versions of giving desire (Rin’s “I can’t help my self, I need to spoil you” attitude during thr adult kissing scene, Mayuki putting everything into doing her best to please Akira) which is itself naturally compelling and emotionally resonant.
All this is to say that Canno creates scenarios that are emotionally charged and grounded, and depicts them in a very expressive, verisimilitudinous way. I think this story is uncommonly good, and I usually hold off judgements until I’ve read to the end but this is shaping up to be one of the best yuri manga out there, period.

I’d add, too, that none of the kisses trod old ground—like real life, they have are really meaningful and they develop the dynamic in new ways every time. Whether it’s Rin and Mayuki crossing that boundary the first time, or getting pulled deeper into whatever’s between them when Rin comforts her and ends up pressing her down, or Mayuki melting all of Akira’s pride along with her mind as she realizes she’s not the dominant one anymore, or here where Akira seems to realize she kind of likes it when Rin watches her kiss Mayuki, every time the kiss that happens is something that only could have happened in that moment and pushes their relationship into a new space. And because it’s written and paced so tightly, you can trust that the author knows exactly what (she?) is doing and just go along for the ride. It’s kind of intoxicating, isn’t it?

last edited at Nov 12, 2020 9:52PM

@kirin lmao, what a perfect summary.

This doujin can be heard lmao

I can’t not hear it! It’s too in-character.

Bro every time Calli has a moment where Kiara can’t hear her and she talks about her with genuine warmth I feel healed. Like https://youtu.be/3aQF29bhBZg

Or https://youtu.be/cWmzRAcB3GA

Tee tee.

Not all depictions of Succubus/Incubus are the same though. I think in the non-yuri series Rottie no Omocha, the titular Rottie didn't need (male) life energy until she reached a certain age. Also in FGO Merlin who's a half-incubus doesn't seem to need anything beyond what every other servant in the game requires (Mana).

Merlin’s not really a classic incubus though—he doesn’t get energy from dreams, he takes emotions from them so he can simulate human reactions using his “stock” of emotion.

That feel when you've read every garbage book in your jail and you recommend a mediocre fantasy book to someone but you forgot the first chapter is straight up smut

This is a real mood.

Anyway, this is a very cute oneshot. The premise of someone not knowing what they’re getting into until they’re completely turned on is also absolute moe.

Kiara’s the type of bottom that goes out and actively provokes her boo into destroying her, and I’ll hear no arguments to the contrary.

She is a phoenix, after all. She said it on stream, getting blown up is kinda part of the game.

Delightful. I wish we had more opportunities to tease Edelgard in the game. I feel like she needs it. And it’s hella cute.

“Chuuuuu”

Praise the boobs.

Amazing chest ahead, therefore Try grabbing with both hands

It’s got this exciting sense of realism, doesn’t it?

Not really

It’s fine if you don’t like something, but does this contribute to the discussion?

Well, I’ll use this as a chance to refine my thinking anyway. Okay, realism is perhaps not the right word. The stuff that happens here resonates on an emotional level (maybe not with everybody) but yes, it certainly isn’t trying for verisimilitude; it’s presenting a fictionalized version of these emotions.

What I mean by “exciting sense of realism,” is how it evokes that wobbly feeling when you get close to someone you are crushing on; the “oh shit, wait, something could actually happen here?” feeling, or the roiling and breaking of sexual and romantic tension. It’s the feeling of when you’re out with a girl you get along well with, and think is kind of cute but is unavailable, and while you’re sitting on a bench she puts her hand on yours and leans in and you sort of jump, and you think “is this happening?? Is this allowed?”

I think a lot of it is about the way this new wave of works plays with genre. We are used to—or at least I am—manga that keep romantic subplots in motionless gay baby jail forever, that don’t have the guts or the permission to resolve or progress things. We’re used to those unsatisfying boundaries, so when a work calls them to mind—and then transgresses them—it’s like that feeling of “girls? Real girls? And they kiss me??” Which is inherently satisfying, especially to all us internet-going queer ladies who are too used to the taste of disappointment.

This went from, “shoujo manga tropes in a slice of life setting,” to “hyper-repressed lesbians with serious issues are soft and panicky together and some background fuckery is afoot” real fast.

Man, the emotions are so vivid, and there’s so much more to the side characters than one would initially think. I always love it when authors are like, “haha, unsatisfying anime trope” and then “we’re going fucking deep now kiddos” all of a sudden, and break out of the mold with something original and informed by life.

I have to say, the moment when nervous Mikoto gets into that bed, and is swamped by the feelings she doesn’t understand and gets all blinky-eyed and lovestruck and puddl-y, and she’s like, “I might have stopped seeing Nekozaki as a friend. And I want to go deeper in,” I was like, “oh fuck, it’s going down.” Most satisfying to thing to my gay hindbrain that I’ve seen like all year. Very nice, very nice.

I’m really loving the trend lately of yuri that establishes its dynamic and what’s allowed, much the way real life has its sort of rules of social conduct, and then pushes through and under that and lets things happen. It’s like, “oh, you thought we were keeping this PG/light/plausibly deniable platonic? Nah, the publishers weren’t telling us to do that, it was an artistic choice to set you up for this shit right here.” It’s got this exciting sense of realism, doesn’t it?

last edited at Nov 9, 2020 6:34PM