^It's probably the OVA Diana and the series Diana, but I like to think of them as pre-Episode 23 Diana and post-Episode 23 Diana.

last edited at Feb 25, 2018 9:33AM

I'm just not following you. How is any of that suppose to make me sympathetic to Mei crushing Yuzus heart? I have said that excusing her actions being that of a selfish teen doesn't make any of it better in my eyes. She played with someone for her own self satisfaction when she knew the entire time what was going to happen. Getting caught up in the moment isnt an excuse, especially when after turning Yuzu down she went on the aggression after Matsuri entered the scene.

I also want to make a correction. Mei didn't want to always take over the school. She spent the last 5 years taking care of everything in hope that her father would return and take it over. Only after he told her he wasn't returning did she finally choose to do it herself. And he didn't necessarily abandon her, he offered for her to come with him but she refuses and stayed behind. Not exactly what you should do with a small child but he did give her a choice.

He gave a primary school kid a choice. How on earth was she supposed to make a good decision for herself at such a young age? She loved both the school and her father. Her train of thought was most likely: "if dad is gone, who will take care of the school?" and therefore chose to stay. You may say she's independent and mature, but she's really just a young girl in the end who can actually make really rash decisions.
I don't think you can ever sympathise with a girl that has probably never smiled or experienced or love since before her father left her because OBVIOUSLY only Yuzu is hurt here, so I'll stop trying.

Adding on to that, it's not just about the school, it's also about her family. The choice was, "come with me and turn your back on THE REST OF YOUR FAMILY, or stay with our family and be cut off from me". In what UNIVERSE is that an appropriate choice to give a kid? No one should be forced to choose between their family. And she clearly loves her grandfather very dearly too, she's made that incredibly clear in her devotion. Shou's choices throughout are incredibly self-centered and it's no wonder Mei is highkey damaged because of it.

^ Mei never had a choice

Not just that, either. She was probably confused as hell, too. Think about it. You're 11-years-old. Throughout your whole life, your parent taught you that the family business takes priority, doing your filial duty is important, and that you should be proud of your family name. And then have them one day just 180 that on you and tell you that you guys should just run away together and ditch all the responsibilities that your parent told you to prioritize and be proud of. Any kid--no matter if they're rich or not, the heir to some business or not--would be so confused.

I feel like Mei's 11-year-old mind went to, "Maybe Dad just wants a break because this whole thing is really stressful. So I'll keep the academy running until he gets back." Because that's something a lot of kids--specifically good kids who are considerate of their parents--would think.

last edited at Feb 23, 2018 6:27AM

I'm just going to copy and paste an excellent analysis of previous volumes and how they tie with Mei's letter made by an insightful anon at /u/

Volume 1 - Had Harumin explain how relationships between girls worked at their school and established the deal with fiances. Also had Mei's grandfather as a huge influence on Mei.

Volume 2 - Yuzu learned of Mei's troubled upbringing and dedication to the school from Himeko. Then Shou shows up and we're given the message that there's no one way to live your life.

Volume 3 - Matsuri is there to trigger Mei's jealousy to get her to pursue Yuzu. And while the reader is made to doubt Matsuri's observations, most of them about Mei do ring true to some extent in hindsight.

Volume 4 - Shows that Mei is willing to try to run away from her problems.

Volume 5 - Mitsuko forces Yuzu and Mei to make hard choices, but also introduces the concept of creating your own path with a strong will. Volume also showed how much Mei loved the school, even having to hide her grandpa's photo when kissing Yuzu in his office.

Volume 6 - Yuzu and Mei's relationship intensifies and the ring is given to Mei, which triggers her deeper feelings. Mei acting awkward while comforting Yuzu in the library now has a more negative meaning in hindsight.

Volume 7 - Mei starts actively trying to figure out if she loves Yuzu. By the end of the volume she realizes that she does.

Volume 8 - Sexual tension reaches its peak and is really the "calm before the storm" of volume 9.

Volume 9 - Everything starts to go to hell when Matsuri learns of Mei's engagement. Their friends worry and ponder their future, Yuzu is oblivious to why Mei is acting weird, while Mei is obviously torn. Eventually the guilt overwhelms Mei when Yuzu is thinking of their future together, so timeskip to after Mei bails in order to fulfill her duties. We get a short "where are they now" of the rest of the cast.

Honestly I'm confused as why people are taking these development this hard or assuming this will only end in a het, loveless marriage. I mean, if this were an het story and Yuzu were an idealistic if commoner guy, everyone would be confident on this being just another obstacle to be solved by true love~

Oh, and nothing is really know about Saburota's personal life beyond what she shared on that German interview.

Can I just say thank you for providing this list for us? This actually does help explain most of (if not, all) of Mei's actions if you go back and reread the entire thing again.

And changing subjects here, does anyone else feel like stuff is also starting to make more sense by watching the anime? For example, the forced kiss in the first chapter. The anime makes it very forceful and emphasizes how unpleasant it was for Yuzu, and it gives hindsight as to how unpleasant it was for Mei when she was given a forced kiss. The manga...is much more subdued, imo. It's just a panel of Mei pinning Yuzu down and kissing her, i.e. something we see a lot in manga in general.

I really wish the anime gave more screentime with these two because if you think about it, they would actually spend A LOT of time together as the composer and lyricist of the group.

I feel like saburouta could end Citrus with 10 volumes (40 chapters) if she wanted to rush things, but since this series is very popular and is getting her lots of bank it’s possible for saburouta to make Citrus 12 volumes long. 12 volumes would be great as long as she doesn’t squeeze in anymore melodrama and just focuses on fleshing out Yuzu and Mei’s relationship.

We all know Citrus is going to have a happy ending. It’s all up to saburouta to make the happy ending a good one.

I think there's a 50/50 chance that this is the case. Citrus is making Saburouta mad money, so she's obviously going to continue it. But at the same time, it's been going on for 5 years. I have to wonder if she's starting to get tired of the series, hence the time skip, and wants to speed things up a little. (Also, even if she does continue it, who's to say she won't put in more drama again just so she can keep making more bank?)

Ending it at Vol. 12 would be great, though. That's, what, 12 more chapters? That should be enough to wrap up everything else in a neat little package and with a good happy ending. That's much better than just rushing it in 4 chapters and ending the series at 10 vols. with an over-the-top cliche happy ending like some people are speculating.

Your comment remember me, the only reason she has to do this is because of her father, she has to do all this shit because her dad decided to do his thing and let a teenage girl have to shoulder everything. Regardless of if he loves her that is a giant dick move.

Yep. This. Very much this. For all the murderous hate I saw directed against the grandfather, people seem to give Shou a free pass. He deserted his own duties, and people seem to actually like that, but they never take the bigger picture into account. Not to get into the practical obligations families such as Aiharas have to their employees, and in this case students as well, because we covered that at length in previous thread pages, but suffice to say Shou's choice impacted a lot of people beyond just himself. Most importantly, his own daughter, who is in this predicament solely because of him. Also, his very existence is proof enough the grandfather is not that bad as people paint him to be, if he was, then Shou would never be allowed to leave, and this conflict would not exist. Still, Shou gets like, zero negative feelings as far as I have seen. He is an adult travelling the world in a philosophical search for himself, while his teenage daughter is left to pick up the duties he abandoned. Oh, and yeah, his leaving left Mei even more emotionally broken. That too seems to have been forgotten.

That is true. I've never seen anyone really complain that much about Shou. But also, I hope this means that Shou will somehow redeem himself in future chapters. Like, he finally returns after soul searching and traveling and hears about this and learns that Mei actually isn't in love with her fiancee. So, he somehow breaks the engagement off. I hope that happens. It'd be one of the few proper things he's done as a parent.

Keep in mind, guys, despite all this angst, Saburouta has apparently stated many times that there WILL be a happy ending. So this absurd break-up (Mei, you're a fucking jackass) is only one of the many obstacles of angst our girls will have to go through before they get their happy ending.

Also, side note, can I just say that Saburouta was really good with all that foreshadowing? Like, Yuzu hugging Mei in the library and asking if it's okay to love her? Anyone remember that? I remember, initially, I passed Mei's hesitance to answer as shyness, but it really wasn't.

And another side note, I love Yuzu's friends. You can tell throughout the chapter, they're all feeling really bad for her. Especially Matsuri. Even Himeko seemed down after she was done scolding Yuzu, and Shirapon's noticing that Yuzu was still wearing her ring was a nice touch. Her expression didn't really change, but you can tell she was thinking something like, "I'm so sorry you're still in pain, Yuzu."

Can't believe we gotta wait another two months before Chapter 37. Ah well. That gives me time to reread this whole guilty pleasure manga and keep up with the anime!

The innocence of long black hair girl is a little forced. How sheltered someone must be to not know what's up?

Doesn't seem like it's forced. It kind of just looks like Haru is somewhat in denial about it all, which is understandable since her and Chiaki grew up together and now suddenly they're doing more intimate things with each other. The main problem right now is for them to talk about what exactly they are now, considering they've kissed so many times, and establish whether or not they're dating yet.

Also, was I the only one who laughed when Chiaki was bummed out that she hasn't unfastened Haru's bra yet and is instead refastening it?

The earlier part about her experience with mental illness is very engaging, but like most works about dealing with depression, the part about her improvement is insubstantial. I think this is mostly due to the nature of recovering from severe mental illness, where statements that hold life-changing significance for one person sound like empty platitudes to another.

She attributes a lot of her improvement to her newfound willingness to be honest to herself to be open about herself. But in her case, open honesty resulted in her receiving widespread external support and a publishing deal. The cynic in me asks: "does she feel better now because of inward change, or because her life circumstances have improved?" The epilogue as a whole feels somewhat self-satisfied and lacking in insight, a bland "what I learned" tacked on at the end of an otherwise deep and personal story.

I don't really see anything wrong with that. If anything, I'm happy for her. After all the rough experiences she's had and all the humiliation she's suffered, I think she deserves the optimistic outlook she has at the end.

Yes, it does seem like she's tying things up with a neat little bow, and I can understand why that can seem bland or anti-climatic or patting herself on the back. But why should we only focus on the pain and angst? She's acknowledging her pain, taking what she's learned, taking both the positives and negatives, and using all of that to find the will to tackle more of life's challenges. This whole "report" is like a self-help book, in my opinion, and I don't see anything wrong with wanting to help people in similar situations by sharing your story and the lessons you learned.

Everyone's pretty much saying what I have to say about this chapter, so the only thing I'll say is this: good for Yuu.

Denying the kiss was the right thing to do at that moment. I also really enjoyed how Yuu said "not now." Like, she's not going to completely deny Touko kisses, but she's also making it clear that it's not what Touko needs at that moment. I actually cheered when I read that part.

Seems like this series is wrapping, though. I'd say maybe another 5-10 chapters? Unless the author pulls a fast one and extends this to friggin' 50 chapters somehow, but tbh, I kind of don't want that. YagaKimi is one of those few mangas where I wouldn't be upset if it ended in the next 5-10 chapters simply because it's already that good of a story.

I think instead of ending suddenly, it ended with a cliffhanger. Perhaps the author hoped that it can get its own series if they put in a cliffhanger? I know I'm intrigued. It seems like a pretty cool supernatural story.

last edited at Nov 29, 2017 7:25AM

@schuyguy I agree. I feel like the author was in a rush to get the main story out and just wanted the reader to assume that Guk-hwa and her ex had a great relationship prior to the cheating, such as other characters commenting how they've been dating for almost four years (a sign of a serious, committed relationship) and sharing a credit card (also another sign). But that's sloppy because it doesn't give a solid foundation to the main conflict of this particular story arc. We're told as opposed to shown.

I think it would've helped to maybe show what happened before catching the ex-boyfriend in the act. Maybe establish what kind of relationship Guk-hwa and her ex had (i.e. were things getting rocky? Were they still close and in love? Was Guk-hwa maybe getting a weird feeling about his recent behavior?). They should've also recounted how the early and middle stages of their relationship was like (i.e. were they all lovey-dovey? Were they getting really serious? Serious enough to consider marriage?). We don't need a whole story arc; just a few flashbacks would be fine. And then have her catch him in the act.

And also, show how the ex-boyfriend acted around Jang Mi and show how Jang Mi met him. What were the circumstances like? Why did Jang Mi like him enough to flirt/go on a date with him? And then show Guk-hwa catching him in the act. And show Jang Mi's inner dialogue about it. Come to think of it, I don't think we're really shown her inner conflict about being--I hate using this term, but it's the best one I could come up with--a side chick. I think it would've made for interesting characterization and development if we were shown how she felt and thought about the whole situation.

I feel like doing something like that would make some of the main characters' actions make more sense and create some form of coherency and establish a solid foundation.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 8:28PM

So now that finally explains the title of this webtoon. I always thought it was supposed to be said from one girl to another, which didn't make too much sense. But it actually refers to black haired girl, being said by her grandma (?). She might have this phrase stuffed into her memory and personality.

Actually, after read all 64 chapters, I realize the title is for both of them, maybe more. It's could be in the past, or now, they thought about that

I'm pretty sure it was in the past. Remember when they hated each other at the beginning because they were fighting over some douchebag?

I mean, sure in the past they thought like that but even now, especially Guk Hwa, when problem happen, she consider her existence.

I'm also caught up to the latest chapter, and judging by what I've been reading, it seems like a pretty broad title. I think we're initially meant to think that the title only counts for how Guk-hwa and Jang Mi first meet and how they hate each other at the start, but as we dig deeper into the story, we learn that they both experienced some pretty tough hardships that seem to have conveyed that message: Guk-hwa with her grandmother wishing she didn't exist, Jang Mi's classmates were jealous of her and some bullied her, etc. Heck, even Esther seems to experience some of that, too, what with her family drama and life choices.

Overall, it's meant to show that the two main characters have been told their whole lives that they aren't wanted, and finding each other and making a point that they want each other, despite their past baggage and flaws. In a weird way, it's...kind of sweet?

last edited at Nov 21, 2017 12:05AM

I think this is the source of my complaint - there isn't much focus on her, and the little focus there is just makes her look very one-dimensional. Especially the "You told me you'd help me" at the end of the latest chapter. For some reason, that scene really bothers me.

Touko has barely changed since the start of the story. Her development has plateaued (if it even began at all), and she just wants to stay the same. But that's the thing. I think that's why she's so one-dimensional. She wants things to stay as they are. She wants another Mio around. She wants people to feel like the perfect girl/student president/sister is still here. Usually, when people undergo a traumatic event (in Touko's case, her sister's death), their first reactions is to create something or keep something preserved in order to remind them of past times--simpler or happier times.

At this point, to me, this whole story isn't about a romance or anything like that at all. It's about one girl's journey trying to get someone she cares about immensely to fully realize just how self-destructive she is in a very selfish way and then move onto the road to recovery. It's about a person who is capable of self-reflection and self-awareness and using that to help another person to get out of a bad situation they put themselves in. The romance is just a nice extra thrown in.

Also, unrelated, but can we take a second to appreciate Doujima in this chapter? I thought he was like any other "boyish, slightly annoying underclassman" archetype, but like Nakatani keeps proving with several other characters throughout the story, he's not. I thought his reaction to Akari's rejection and his viewpoint on love and confessions was spot-on because he makes a good point. Confessing isn't easy, and if someone walks up to you and tells you they like you, they're being honest to you. So it's only fair to be honest back. And Oogaki-senpai didn't have the respect or gall to do that for Akari. Like Doujima said, "What a jerk."

I love how Nakatani actually gives the supporting characters time to grow and/or show their other layers, too. She's so good at stuff like that.

last edited at Nov 11, 2017 6:18PM

I see them both as switches, tbh. I think both are equally liable to take the initiative. However, I do headcanon that 6/10, Akko would take the initiative, mainly because Diana is much more reserved and composed than Akko.

Anyway, I really like this Interview with a Vampire picture going on here. It's really well done here.

No wonder they offer brides 100 million yen. Should've taken it, Ayafuji.

FINALLY someone translated this! Saw this comic floating around but couldn't figure out what they were talking about. I just knew it was Akko doing something unintentionally charming and Diana getting embarrassed about it lol

So basically, Ume and Sho got married in order to help support their daughters? That...explains a lot about their general relationship, actually. It explains why Yuzu's mom is so chill with being the wife of someone who's never around and why Mei's dad is still traveling around, despite being a married man again. It also explains the very sudden marriage.

If the plot would allow it, I'd actually like to see more on that developed. It seems like a pretty interesting arrangement.

I don't think Citrus is "getting" overly dramatic. It was always like that, and it's pretty obvious that Citrus is one of those "guilty pleasure" stories that the reader reads because the art is nice, the characters are cliches we know and love (love to hate, in some cases), and the drama is self-indulgent. That's what Citrus has going for it, which is why it's getting repetitive for some people, but that's what it was established as to begin with.

So, let's just sit back and read what this "new" drama bomb is going to bring and indulge in this guilty pleasure.

last edited at Oct 21, 2017 10:59PM

I actually quite like this and think it has a lot of potential. The cuts--while unnerving--only make me more curious about Chiaki. What's her story? Are they scars from self-harm? Are they part of an aesthetic? Did she go through some shit and has learned to accept them as a part of herself or is she still struggling with them? And what does Kiri think of them? Does she have scars, too? What is these two's relationship and dynamics?

I dunno about you guys, but I think this is a good piece. There is certainly lots of potential, and it's about time we got some butch-butch representation on this site. Butch-butch relationships do exist in real life.

last edited at Oct 20, 2017 8:48PM

@elevown It's not a scanlation. English isn't Ticcy's first language, so there are little mistakes here and there, but hey, I don't really care too much. I just care about her lovely, lovely art <3

^^Ugh, yeah, I think that's why this image made me feel weird. It's just really gross. If you're going to have them look at the viewer, at least give them shocked/angry expressions so that it seems like someone walked in on them. That's still sleazy, but at least it's a little better than some basement dweller's fantasy.

The art is good, but like a lot of people are saying, really not digging the "looking at the camera" schtick. Makes me uncomfortable, for some reason.

Citrus is good for what it is, but it doesn't have as much depth as Bloom Into You has. Furthermore, BIY's drama is always internal that affects the people around them as opposed to Citrus' "rival, one-off love interest of the week" and "Mei's acting distant again."

It warms my heart to not see pure hatred for Citrus for once! Although, it hasn't been that kind of stories since vol4. Sorry, I couldn't help but step up a bit!

I will admit that Citrus isn't exactly my favorite because it's so cliched and overly dramatic, but I think it's pretty obvious that it was meant to be a guilty pleasure sort of thing. I don't see anything wrong with having a guilty pleasure, and I think it's fair enough to deem Citrus something like that.

That said, I'd love to see this one adapted into an anime too. One can't have enough Yuri in their life.

Seriously. @Gudetamago mentioned that YagaKimi is the most popular yuri in Japan right now, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that they would announce an anime adaption (let's just hope they adapt it well). Fingers crossed!

So it was a mistranslation, then?

No, not really. The Japanese phrasing might be a bit clearer, but there's nothing wrong with the TL. I think most understood that Sayaka meant her interfering with Yuu's plan would be a low move. The context of the entire chapter should be enough to help readers come to that reading.

I guess I'm just one of the few readers who didn't catch that because it flew WAY over my head when I read it the first time.

Because she hates herself.

But why exactly does she hate herself, and which "self" is it that she hates?

There's what Yuu calls in Chapter 10 "your weak side and your perfect side," which together are what Touko says Yuu accepts: "all of me."

But we actually have:
1) "original Touko": shy, hiding behind her sister.
2) "perfect Touko," which she thought was an imitation of Mio Mk.2, but now has learned is not, at least not entirely.
3) "real Touko": the both sides that Yuu accepts

So does she hate herself for:
"Really" being original Touko all along but faking being Mio Mk.2
Failing to live up to being Mio Mk. 2 (and she thinks putting on the play will fix that)
"Really" being empty inside, like the girl in the play and not actually having an identity at all.
None, all, or some of the above?

She's clearly got some combo of survivor's guilt (if the rock-paper-scissors game had come out differently, she would have been the one killed) and imposter syndrome (where she feels like a fake no matter what she achieves). But it's not so clear what exactly it would take to redress that.

Yeah, that's what I meant in my last question. Why does Touko hate herself so much? But I think you're right. It seems to be a mishmash of various factors: the image of perfection she has of her sister, the sense of inadequacy, the survivor's guilt, the indirect peer pressure from extended family to be "good" like Mio, etc.

And what makes this all the more tragic is that Touko doesn't have to be like this anymore, but she knows she's in too deep to stop and hates how useless (she thinks) she was as a child. She'd rather continue living a lie that just hurts herself (and her family, if her parents are even telling her she doesn't have to be like Mio).

If this series doesn't get a good anime adaptation, I am going to cry.

I know right, they've already made a PV and the voice actors were pretty good. Citrus got an anime adaptation for goodness sake, and that has so much less complexity and so much more melodrama compared to Yagate Kimi ni Naru. Well on the other hand maybe that's what other people like. XD To each their own.

Citrus is good for what it is, but it doesn't have as much depth as Bloom Into You has. Furthermore, BIY's drama is always internal that affects the people around them as opposed to Citrus' "rival, one-off love interest of the week" and "Mei's acting distant again." If this series gets an anime adaption, I hope that it will be made with actual care because listen, if BIY is sparking these kinds of analyses and debates in the comments, it at least deserves that much.